Cr 250 ignition timing with esr adaptor plate.

[Honda 250r 001]

Im almost ready to bolt my stator and flywheel to the engine. My question is, where do I run the stator? Turned all the way to the left or all the way to the right? How many degrees of advancement would that be? Can i still run pump fuel with the advancment of the cr ignition?

THanks!

[1promodfan]

If you look at the stator there is a mark like this ___ but it is vertical, line up that mark on the stator with the mark on the ESR plate. You DON'T want to advance any timing. You'll be fine running pump gas.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

With the ESR adapter plate you have no adjustment on that so only adjustment you will have will be on the CR stator plate itself.

At the bottom mounting hole on the CR stator plate, there should be a thin metal plate with a round hole in it over the adjuster slot held in place with a small screw.
If you remove the screw & pull the metal plate off, then you will have a range of adjustment for the ignition timming.

Once you get the ESR adapter mounted & the Cr stator, when you put the bolts in to hold the CR plate on, rotate the CR stator plate far to the left as it will rotate & lock it down.

With the stator plate locked down in that spot, you will have around 5 to 8* of advance ignition timming, probably right where it needs to be.
If you rotate the stator plate to the right, you will be advancing the ignition timming even more.
Its something to do with how the ESR adapter plate has been machined.
Neil

[derby]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
With the ESR adapter plate you have no adjustment on that so only adjustment you will have will be on the CR stator plate itself.

At the bottom mounting hole on the CR stator plate, there should be a thin metal plate with a round hole in it over the adjuster slot held in place with a small screw.
If you remove the screw & pull the metal plate off, then you will have a range of adjustment for the ignition timming.

Once you get the ESR adapter mounted & the Cr stator, when you put the bolts in to hold the CR plate on, rotate the CR stator plate far to the left as it will rotate & lock it down.

With the stator plate locked down in that spot, you will have around 5 to 8* of advance ignition timming, probably right where it needs to be.
If you rotate the stator plate to the right, you will be advancing the ignition timming even more.
Its something to do with how the ESR adapter plate has been machined.
Neil


Be careful judging by the pictures you have posted of your piston and seeing you already have fuel/compression problems you should line it up like it should be. Advancing your timing is going to have the same effect as adding compression. If you advance the curve 8 degrees it will detonate unless you are running methanol or diesel. 5 degrees is pushing it for 112 on most big bores. I learned the hard way pulling studs out of the case and cylinder, and blowing a hole in the top of a piston. Timing is not something to mess with, pump gas will not be forgiving especially if you already have detonation problems.

By the way what year cr ignition did you find to use?

[1promodfan]

Like I said, there is a mark on the stator and a mark on the ESR adapter. If you line those up, you can't go wrong.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by derby
Be careful judging by the pictures you have posted of your piston and seeing you already have fuel/compression problems you should line it up like it should be. Advancing your timing is going to have the same effect as adding compression. If you advance the curve 8 degrees it will detonate unless you are running methanol or diesel. 5 degrees is pushing it for 112 on most big bores. I learned the hard way pulling studs out of the case and cylinder, and blowing a hole in the top of a piston. Timing is not something to mess with, pump gas will not be forgiving especially if you already have detonation problems.

By the way what year cr ignition did you find to use?

im planning on running all the way retarded until i can figure out my compression problem. I found a complete 2001 cr 250 ignition on ebay for 200.

[derby]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
im planning on running all the way retarded until i can figure out my compression problem. I found a complete 2001 cr 250 ignition on ebay for 200.

Line it up with the marks first and see how it does. Lined up like it is supposed to be you may be able to get away with your current setup. But don't go advancing it until you get it right.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by derby
Line it up with the marks first and see how it does. Lined up like it is supposed to be you may be able to get away with your current setup. But don't go advancing it until you get it right.

I just contacted CT racing and they said that they still have some cr ignition adaptor plates. Im thinking of going with theirs beause of the adjustment. Would the adjustments be beneficial or should i try to keep my motor all esr and go with the esr plate?

[C-LEIGH RACING]

The ESR adapter plate would be the simplest, just bolt it on to the case & then the CR stator plate & rotate it counter clockwise far as it will go & lock it down.

If you know how to use a spark plug hole dial indicator to find TDC & ignition timming light, the CT plate will work just as good. It has slots where you bolt it to the case so you can retard or advance the timming with it instead of the CR stator plate.
Neil

[Honda 250r 001]

where would you set the ct plate to be the same as the esr plate? in the middle of the egg holes? I would like having the option to advance or retard if i want witout and mods to the plate.

[Burns310r]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING

Once you get the ESR adapter mounted & the Cr stator, when you put the bolts in to hold the CR plate on, rotate the CR stator plate far to the left as it will rotate & lock it down.

With the stator plate locked down in that spot, you will have around 5 to 8* of advance ignition timming, probably right where it needs to be.
If you rotate the stator plate to the right, you will be advancing the ignition timming even more.
Its something to do with how the ESR adapter plate has been machined.
Neil

Bringing up an old thread for clarification.

C Leigh,

If i move the CR ignition to the left all the way (counter clockwise) That will give me 5-8 degrees of advanced correct? Is that advanced over stock or over TDC?


Also you go on to say if i rotate it to the Right further (i assume clockwise) it will further my advancement?

Where does that leave my timing if i put it in the middle with the line. I just got turned around in they way you described the advancement. I know it shouldnt be this tough. I just want to get it straight.

Thanks

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I think, it must be by the way those ESR adapter plate has been machined, if you bolt on the CR stator plate & then rotate it counter clockwise far as it will rotate & tighten it down,, your ignition timming will be advanced around 5* to 8*.

If you rotate the CR stator plate to the right,, (clockwise) you will be advancing the ignition timming even more.

A gas fueled engine, shouldnt need any more than 5 to 8* of advance timming at the most & even then you need to be on your toes with jetting.

When I say the adapter plates machining, what I'm meaning, either the three holes for mounting the adapter plate to the cases or the two holes where you mount the stator plate to the adapter plate,,,those are machined in a place where the ignition timming is pre set in the advanced mode.
Neil

[Burns310r]

So just to clarify.

Since myne is lined up with the original stator guide. The thin piece of steel with the hole in the middle. I have more timing advanced than if i where to move it all the way counter clockwise?

So by going all the way counter clockwise i have got as close to TDC as possible with that mounting plate.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by Burns310r
So just to clarify.

Since myne is lined up with the original stator guide. The thin piece of steel with the hole in the middle. I have more timing advanced than if i where to move it all the way counter clockwise?

So by going all the way counter clockwise i have got as close to TDC as possible with that mounting plate.

Yes, that is right, because the little metal plate covering the slot in the CR stator plate, the hole in the metal plate is right in the middle, so, you have even more advance timming.
Just guessing, I would say somewhere around 10* or more advance timming.

I've not remembered about it, every time I was able to talk to Eddie, but I need to just to find out if we can get the machining changed.
Slots in that adapter plate would be the answer, like the CT Racing plate has, but that would make setting the ignition timming even harder because a plug hole dial indicator would need be used to set it proper.
Neil

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
if you bolt on the CR stator plate & then rotate it counter clockwise far as it will rotate & tighten it down,, your ignition timming will be advanced around 5* to 8*.

Neil

By advanced. do you mean 5 to 8 degrees advanced from top dead center? Or do you mean 5 to 8 degrees advanced from the stock ignition advancement.

Thanks

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Before TDC
Neil

[Burns310r]

Is it possible to have to much timing and have the engine not want to rev as high?

Im not getting detonation or anything. But I was told else ware that to much timing can cause the engine to not want to rev on the top end as well.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Advanced timming, is the ignition sparking before the piston gets to TDC.
More advance you set the timming at, sooner it will spark before the piston gets to TDC.

An engine needs, just a little advance timming just to get the whole ignition system going early.
Neil

[Burns310r]

I understand this..


But is it possible to have to much advanced for performance reasons?


Like i said, i dont have any detonanting, but could 10 degrees advanced be causing the engine to not rev out. It was commented on MACDIZZY forum that to much timing is bad for higher revs, and that retarding the timing might help the enigne rev out better.


Im just trying to figure all this out, sorry for all the questions. I would like to better understand the system than blindly make changes.

Thanks for the help so far C-Leigh.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

What those guys might be talking about, probably different ride than what you got.

Some of those guys road race & that is a whole different engine from a 250R.
By lowering rpms, they are probably turing around 12 to 15000 rpms & to them, it not reving out all the way could just be maybe 500 rpms short after a timming advance.

MacDizzys a whole lot more indepth than on here or 250r.net & it can get a bit hard to understand.
Shucks, its some stuff on there will get over my head at times, specially if its something I've never looked at or touched with my hands.

I would say to much advance could have some affect on the 250R engine, far as rpms, but it would be small.
I would be more prone, to thinking about what the high advance would be doing to the top of that piston, rather than a rpm loss.
Neil