Hole Shot Devices Compared

[TNT]

Thought I’d start a thread so we look at all these together. Pro’s and con’s hopefully without the sales hype. Sales people want to contribute to help us understand fine, but this is more of a racers comparison not a thread to sell any product. No product is flawless and can not be improved, no quad is flawless, so we hope if anything sales people don’t take offenses and gather a better understanding of their product including cost and racers needs.

So let’s start out by making sure we understand cost and how each product works. I will separate the three products on the market by post so you can make quotes to update this info posted add more pics etc until we have a full understanding of the products operation, then we’ll look at pro’s and con’s and preferences. Let’s keep the bashing down, that’s not what this thread is about these guys work hard to make these products available and remember they don’t sell high volumes so they are going to be expensive.

[TNT]

AXIS only pic I can find, if there are more please post. What I gather this handle bar mounted switch triggers the shock rebound somehow and changes it.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/AXISHole-Shot-2a.jpg

[coryatver]

do you have to have axis air shocks to have the axis design? I don't think anyone has axis air shocks other than sponsored pros. I heard they are coming out with a less expensive air shock model in the near future though.

[TNT]

This one looks like spring loaded struts that lock down into lwr arm fitting's...I don't know what unlocks it? I guess braking?

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/hole_shot_1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/hole_2.jpg

[TNT]

Originally posted by coryatver
do you have to have axis air shocks to have the axis design? I don't think anyone has axis air shocks other than sponsored pros. I heard they are coming out with a less expensive air shock model in the near future though.

Cory would u wait a sec I'm not done posting the options....geeeez...lol!

[TNT]

Then theres is this one that has some rods that lock to billet fitting's on the upper arm, spring loaded they unlock when you brake...Sells for $250?

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/HSDEVICE1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/HSDEVICE3.jpg

[TNT]

There are the three options I know about if there are more post them. Again lets try and make sure we have all the options and understand how each works so we can determine the pro's and con's. If anyone can answer Cory's question how this AXIS works then we can determine how it works with other shocks. I could not find info on thier website....

[coryatver]

so what is the point of a hole shot device? lower the front end temporarily for the hole shot? Won't that take away from rear wheel traction as there is more weight over the front end than the back? Can't you lean forward and get the same results?

[k4f5x0r]

same concept as dirtbikes. it lowers the front to keep it from wheel standing so you can throttle through. once you the shock compresses( IE: slowing down/ a jump) it unclips and the shock goes back to its normal range of motion


i think the pro's outweigh the cons. The traction may be decreased slightly, but you can throttle through and not have to worry about wheeling it and having ot let off because of that.



as for my theory on the axis maybe the button connects to a pump that changes the rebound in the shock or something like that..

[TNT]

Originally posted by coryatver
so what is the point of a hole shot device? lower the front end temporarily for the hole shot? Won't that take away from rear wheel traction as there is more weight over the front end than the back? Can't you lean forward and get the same results?

Heres is the way I see it but remember I am not rider, soon as my son gets back to town I want to tie down his front end and run some hole shot times/test to verify my theory. He says the bikes have used them for a while now, so there might be something to them for some racers? BUT quads are different than bikes.

But the mechanics I see is forward momentum and acceleration. If your in a wheelie it's less, since the component of mass is not forward, it's up a bit maybe not worth considering. Then there is friction of the front tires will be more on the ground. Then there is forward-to-rear body roll that can put traction on the rear tires but again ruin forward momentum and acceleration if you wheelie. Wind resistance might be less in a wheelie. So there are alot of factors I can think of that play a part...how they wash out might just depend on the racer since they can add alot more factors to the equation.

[XBLASTERRACERX]

Basically how the Axis holeshot system works is you press the button on your handle bars and it does not allow your shock to rebound so if you squash your front end down it will not allow your shocks to rebound intill you press the button a second time. When I talked to axis they said said one advantge to their system is it allows you to keep your front end down all the way into the first corner which supposedly lets the you rail the corner better. It sells for $150 and yes you do need to have pro airs to get the system. I can't wait to try mine out.:D

[TNT]

Originally posted by XBLASTERRACERX
Basically how the Axis holeshot system works is you press the button on your handle bars and it does not allow your shock to rebound so if you squash your front end down it will not allow your shocks to rebound intill you press the button a second time. When I talked to axis they said said one advantge to their system is it allows you to keep your front end down all the way into the first corner which supposedly lets the you rail the corner better. It sells for $150 and yes you do need to have pro airs to get the system. I can't wait to try mine out.:D

I don't understand AXIS rebound, does it work off air?

Ok quick recap.....Axis has an advantage over the rest since racers prefer the ability to make it through the hole shot with the Hole Shot Device engaged or the option. The axis systems does that by the push of a button although a more automated design would be preferred. Anyone disagree?

The other two rely on breaking, to what degree we don't know. Most do agree some sort of breaking is needed before the first turn on most tracks so that is a design requirement. Disagree?

[dancr250]

I coud not find the first "strut" device for sale anywhere?????

I have PEP PB1's on my TRX450r, that I really like, I do not want to switch to Custom Axis just for their holeshot device.

So the only option I have is for the the "rod" device. I called Idolspeed, and It will work for just about every bike/shock combo. Big advantage!
They said the force required to unlock this design can be adjusted by the postion of the clamp. You can make it unlock when shifting, or set it up to unlock with hard breaking.
They convinced me enough to put an order in, I will get them mid-week, I can give more info then.

[TNT]

Originally posted by dancr250
I coud not find the first "strut" device for sale anywhere?????

I have PEP PB1's on my TRX450r, that I really like, I do not want to switch to Custom Axis just for their holeshot device.

So the only option I have is for the the "rod" device. I called Idolspeed, and It will work for just about every bike/shock combo. Big advantage!
They said the force required to unlock this design can be adjusted by the postion of the clamp. You can make it unlock when shifting, or set it up to unlock with hard breaking.
They convinced me enough to put an order in, I will get them mid-week, I can give more info then.

Ok let us know how it goes, seems like the low speed adjustment on the shock would effect it from unhooking but what do I know.

But with this design your not going to get through the hole shot as soon as you break it's done. A better design would allow for getting through the hole shot. Not sure I like the AXIS switch either, sometimes in full gates it's hard enough getting through the hole shot but guess one could get use to remembering to hit the button.......Any fault in either of these systems and your done, I think mechanical is more reliable than electrical. Why I think on something like this redunancy is needed that way if one path to unhook does not work there is a back up, especially electrical, hydraulic, or pnematic(air).

In my mind two big ideal requirements are...Automatic disengage past hole shot and redundancy in the design.

[protraxrptr17]

I have to really lay on the bars and come off the clutch slow on my bike for most tracks. There are places where I have to sit back a little, but it's rare. Of course if you are taking off in sand a foot deep, you don't want this. With the way we set up our front ends these days this can really help. The soft springs on top kind of add a neutral bouyancy. Most of us run a really fast slow speed rebound so our shocks can react faster and because of the really soft upper spings (need less rebound damping so the soft springs are able to push the shafts back out). This allows the front end to rise very easily during acceleration which is great except during the first 60 ft of the holeshot. I like the second device the best. Looks much more reliable than the first one. A variation of the axis design could be added to any shock theoretically. All you would really have to do would be to make a way to remotely close off the rebound bypass port. On rebound adjustable shocks, there is a long needle that is inside the shock shaft. WHen you turrn the adjusting screw the needle goes up and restricts oil flow. If you made another port just above the existing screw and added another adjuster that just pushed in and out and added a cable or air pressure to push it in, therefore raising the needle to full closed, you would have it. You could tie it into the brake lever to release when you tap the front brakes.

I had another idea in which there would be a fixture on the lower arm that cross pinned to the frame. The pins would be like small hydraulic cylinders that tied into the front brake lines. When you tap the brake, the pins retract and the front end releases. I want something that forcefully unlocks. I don't want to rely on shock compression and some flimsy spring. It would suck to hit the first jump with your front shocks locked up or have to stop before you get there and mash down on the front end to get the rods unhooked. JMO

[motofreak2772]

Your missing one option.. with air shocks you can use dirtbike holeshot devices.


Originally posted by coryatver
so what is the point of a hole shot device? lower the front end temporarily for the hole shot? Won't that take away from rear wheel traction as there is more weight over the front end than the back? Can't you lean forward and get the same results?

Actually youre wrong, the point is that you can have more weight on the back of the quad while still having the effect of leaning forward. So you get the best of both you get the traction of leaning over the back of the bike without the wheelie and you keep the front down without spinning out.

[motardracer]

The axis holeshot system is pneumatic. Before you go off to the starting line, you pressurize the system with either compressed air, or an airshock pump. This pushes the rebound adjusters to full stiff until you press the button to release the pressure.
This seems to help with a few things. First, when you launch out of the gate, the increased rebound damping resists too much rearward weight transfer (wheelie). Then as you go through the gears, the increased rebound keeps your front springs from bouncing the front end up, and distrurbing the weight on the rear wheels as you lean back for traction. As you get into a higher gear, the front wheels are pretty much on the ground, and the rebound damping tends to suck the front of the quad down to set up for the first turn (nice and low to rail the turn like a TT setup!).
Once you are thru the first turn, hit the button, and everything goes back to normal settings (you wouldn't want the extra rebound when launching a jump...)
Really there is a built in safety if anything goes wrong with the system, the air will leak out and you are back to normal. I'll check to see if this can be used on other axis shocks too. I'm pretty sure it can be done, but there might be a charge for modifying your existing eyelets.

[06 Honda 450R]

would it do much for a tt bik?

[motofreak2772]

tt bikes are already low you wouldnt need these systems.

I dont think you will have to worry about these things not disengaging. If for some reason it doesnt unhook, the face of the first jump should compress them enough to unhook, and if that fails the landing deffinatley will haha(but lets hope it wouldnt come to that).

[jesserutherford]

Yeah I tried with works connection holeshot devices off a crf450 with fox shocks thinking it would work the same as a dirt bike but it didn't, not enough clearance. So I spent a couple hundred bucks on holeshot devices and extra shock gaurds and it didn't work so i said heck with it.

[motofreak2772]

Ive seen pictures with pros using the dirtbike ones. Maybe they have it setup differently, try to find out more about how they did theres so you can get yours working too.

[motardracer]

FYI, Axis are setting up a kit to fit the holeshot system to any front set of shocks that already use the 90 degree hex clicker eyelet. The kit will include new eyelets that the holeshot system can plug into, and the price will be $275.

[mxquadracer115]

I am currently working on another option... All I will let out right now is that it will use a button like the bikes, along with a shock guard, and will work on any shock, Motowoz, Pep, Elka, Axis, Fox coil or air it will not matter... Mine will link the shock together (Body and shaft) instead of using a-arms and frame to control the lock down... May post some models I have

[TNT]

Originally posted by mxquadracer115
I am currently working on another option... All I will let out right now is that it will use a button like the bikes, along with a shock guard, and will work on any shock, Motowoz, Pep, Elka, Axis, Fox coil or air it will not matter... Mine will link the shock together (Body and shaft) instead of using a-arms and frame to control the lock down... May post some models I have

Post some models so your giving me and protrax some competition:huh This is war! lol! J/K! :D