Hagerty intake

[thequadfather+2]

Just put the Hagerty racing intake on a 2009 (70). I thought I would share some pics and some info that may help the average joe's out there.

1. Got the intake and a few pointers from Marc at Hot Quads. I used the older version with the Vforce reeds and KX65 boot.

2. I took off the plastic and gas tank so I could see it from the top. Glad I did because it wasnt easy as I thought it was going to be.

[thequadfather+2]

I had to alter a few tools and one of the bolts. I tried a couple methods. Marc cut a allen wrench down to fit in there but I couldnt get it to work so I cut the end off a wrench and welded a small section of the hex to it.

[thequadfather+2]

I also used a grinder to shave down the top of the head and around the edge.

[thequadfather+2]

heres another view, it will become obvious why this will help later

[thequadfather+2]

I mounted the boot to the intake and then to the motor. I had several leaks when I performed the leak down test. It leaked around the gasket at the bottom in the front where the short bolt goes, it also leaked between the reed cage and boot. I took it all off and re-sealed everything with high temp RTV. I used it along with the paper gaskets at each contact point and it finally sealed.

The front had to be altered with a dremel a little because the bolt wouldnt let it line up. you can see in the pic right above the slot where it needs to be done.

[thequadfather+2]

The front bolt has to go in prior to the intake. It needs to be threaded down as far as it can go and still slide the intake on, if not you cant get the hex wrench into it ( trust me ).

[thequadfather+2]

another look

[thequadfather+2]

When you slide it on there will not be much room to tighten the bolt under the front and that will leak. This is where you will need to alter some tools....Good luck.

[thequadfather+2]

another shot, it will be tough to get it tight under there.

[thequadfather+2]

I think it will work better if you can go to Fastenal, or some other nuts and bolts store, and get this type of head with the same threads. It may just need the diameter shaved with a grinder but the head doesnt stand up and should be much easier to work with.

[thequadfather+2]

In the end I had to put it on and take it off several times, make tools and alter the bolt just a little before it finally it passed a leak down test. Havent used it yet, maybe this weekend but I thought I would share my install now. Getting it to seal and that dang bolt in the front was a pain in the butt.

[BradLoomis]

Use a standard 6mm hex bolt and flat washer on the slotted bolt side. You can then use an end wrench to get in there. You can also get a reliefed hex head that has the hex slightly raised, so that a flat washer isn't needed.

hows the levelness of the carb and does your throttle cqable get all jammed up ion the top frame rail

[DAVYS DAD]

anyone have this on a dyno yet? I know a few shops have and are claming 1.5-2.0 hp that would sell me on it.not to impressed with installiton though!

later

[bulldogfallon]

Marc from Hot Quads tried his yesday on a2 fast kit and wasimpressed with results

We are fitting ours this weekend

[Coley'sdad#8]

quadfather, those are called pan head / button head hex drive machine screws. in case you were to call around trying to find them you would know what to ask for.;)

[FISH ON!]

great thread quadfather. thanks for taking the time to share the info.

Todd

[Coley'sdad#8]

yeah that was a good thread quadfather,
Yunno ummmm Christmas is almost here and somebody might have some complicated toys to put together so could we put in requests and you give us some good picture / instructional threads on toy assembly:D

[thequadfather+2]

I know Marc and Gary and several others do it everyday but maybe this will be helpful for the average joe's.

Here's a couple more pics, the carb sits pretty level and doesnt seem to stick out excessively. The cable was a little more crowded but not bad, I just moved it to the outside of the frame rail and it seems to be OK.

I spoke premature, still having trouble sealing the area around the intake where the slotted bolt hole is. It is sealed everywhere but there. I am gonna try a new gasket more RTV and a hex head with a washer this time.

[thequadfather+2]

again

[thequadfather+2]

last one

[thequadfather+2]

Originally posted by Coley'sdad#8
yeah that was a good thread quadfather,
Yunno ummmm Christmas is almost here and somebody might have some complicated toys to put together so could we put in requests and you give us some good picture / instructional threads on toy assembly:D

Pay the extra $$ and get the pre-assembled stuff, I dont think anything is ever easy....not for me anyway, if there is any way to screw it up I can find it without much help, thankfully my father-in-law is a pretty good machinist, pipe fitter, tool & dye and mechanic with a nice shop full of expensive equipment ready to fix my mistakes.....:D

[dazed&confused]

Originally posted by DAVYS DAD
anyone have this on a dyno yet? I know a few shops have and are claming 1.5-2.0 hp that would sell me on it.not to impressed with installiton though!

later

i know SMS had one on the dyno and had good #s out of it . i do beleive he did some testing with various pipes and got different #s ,some good some bad.

[thequadfather+2]

well maybe it's sealed now Marc gave me some suggestions that helped. checked the bottom with a flat file and found that it needed a little work. We took about 15 minutes and got it flat. We also used a different bolt as suggested earlier by bradloomis (hex bolt with flat washer). In the pic you can see where the file missed the surface indicating the areas that were a bit high.

Keep in mind I am not complaining just pointing out what I have done. If anyone has any trouble with theirs they can use this, may be helpful. We had a signifigant air leak....

Maybe we can ride tomorrow and we'll see how it performs.

[thequadfather+2]

well maybe it's sealed now Marc gave me some suggestions that helped. checked the bottom with a flat file and found that it needed a little work. We took about 15 minutes and got it flat. We also used a different bolt as suggested earlier by bradloomis (hex bolt with flat washer). In the pic you can see where the file missed the surface indicating the areas that were a bit high.

Keep in mind I am not complaining just pointing out what I have done. If anyone has any trouble with theirs they can use this, may be helpful. We had a signifigant air leak....

Maybe we can ride tomorrow and we'll see how it performs.

[thequadfather+2]

++

[thequadfather+2]

new bolt works much better

[hotquads1]

nice pics and good info , we have tested it on the 90 with good results, I have not personally tried on 70 yet . The throttle cable clears fine . Its a lil tricky to instal but worth the effort. there are other options for a boot , Haggerty is making an aluminum snout for each carb size that will eliminate the rubber boot.
marc

[CatHR]

Quadfather,
My hat is off to you, you've got a good bit of time into this post and your project here.
The Haggerty Intake is something Hetricks have been playing with for quite some time now. People like Bassani have been running it for a while. I thought this intake system was sold as a complete kit, mostly because that is how Hetricks sell it. They include the bolt that you were struggling with as well. Basically I thought you would get it and just bolt it on. Atleast Gary and Mark were able to give you some suggestions on how to do the final assembly. I don't remember hearing anything about clearance issues though. Not sure why you would be having problems there.
As for the power gains, I believe that people are seeing a 2HP gain on average. Of course the rest of the engine build is going to play a factor into deciding what everybody see's as a gain. I know that running these mini quads on a Dyno is a little tricky. It's not like a regular shifter type quad. If you don't know what you are doing, your results can be very misleading and inaccurate. I can't wait to see what Gary and Mark get for HP gains on their Dyno. Hopefully they will be posting on here soon.
Again, my hat is off to you Quadfather. Nothing like doing it the hard way. Atleast you walk away with that sence of doing it yourself and all the knowledge that came with it. Good luck with the jetting and clutching once you have the intake figured out.

you would think with the price of one that would have been done already but i guess not

[CRBOGGAN]

Very interested in gains on a stock 2009 90cc.Will it be worth the $$$ or will this be better to wait for next season when we have motor upgrades? We race with the quadfathers sons and have let him outdo or get ahead lol. If anyone has any # on gains this would help a lot. As Marc knows after we last talked I let the quadfather get one up on me and now with winter arena cross and no time for major mods my son and myself need all the help we can get lol. My stock 90 and this 70 in the pics will practice together tomorrow so maybe we will be able to see if there are any gains from the intake. After last week Friday night the 90 was right behind the 70 and then Saturday the 70 was right behind the 90.

[#404's Dad]

Huh.......... I was not aware that "Marc and Gary" had a Dyno?


Originally posted by CatHR
Quadfather,
My hat is off to you, you've got a good bit of time into this post and your project here.
The Haggerty Intake is something Hetricks have been playing with for quite some time now. People like Bassani have been running it for a while. I thought this intake system was sold as a complete kit, mostly because that is how Hetricks sell it. They include the bolt that you were struggling with as well. Basically I thought you would get it and just bolt it on. Atleast Gary and Mark were able to give you some suggestions on how to do the final assembly. I don't remember hearing anything about clearance issues though. Not sure why you would be having problems there.
As for the power gains, I believe that people are seeing a 2HP gain on average. Of course the rest of the engine build is going to play a factor into deciding what everybody see's as a gain. I know that running these mini quads on a Dyno is a little tricky. It's not like a regular shifter type quad. If you don't know what you are doing, your results can be very misleading and inaccurate. I can't wait to see what Gary and Mark get for HP gains on their Dyno. Hopefully they will be posting on here soon.
Again, my hat is off to you Quadfather. Nothing like doing it the hard way. Atleast you walk away with that sence of doing it yourself and all the knowledge that came with it. Good luck with the jetting and clutching once you have the intake figured out.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Gary, Did you ever get that water type dyno figured out?

[raidernut]

Dyno's on cvt's are over rated, nothing beats a good ol' *** dyno. Unfortunately gary has a big crack in his.:D

[thequadfather+2]

We rode the 70 today and did notice some changes. Our 70 is a 09 from Hot Quads, Stage 6 sport pro cylinder kit and PCS pipe. Stock PWK 21 carb, jetted 118/45 (needle 2nd slot from the top) in about 65-68 degrees about 300-500 elevation

The big change I noticed was about midrange or maybe at the top of midrange into the higher portion the RPM's jump up like it finds another gear and pulls harder. It is very obvious and almost seemed like it found the power-band on an old CR250. It was so obvious when it hit you could hear the RPMs jump up by about 500. I may get a chance to video it later this week and post a link.

I couldnt see much if any improvement down low, but the quad runs great and I am pleased. I still ended up with a problem sealing it, during the leak test I noticed a few small bubbles around the slotted bolt hole. I put RTV around the bolt and the slot on the outside, seems ok now.

I would like to hear what the results have been on the 90's and if anyone has seen any different results than what I saw on their 70...

[qcitytile]

did any one have to cut the front plastics? I installed ours today and there is no way to get a filter on the carb. any pics with plastics on?

[qcitytile]

also is there any tricks to see if theres any leaks without the leak down tester??

[CRBOGGAN]

Plastic on quad in the pics did not have to get cut but it was close. He also made his own leak down tester with parts from the hardware store.

[qcitytile]

We used the aluminum 30mm adapter and the angle is a little different so unless im doing this wrong the edge of the plastics touches about 1/3 of the carb mouth. Any one try the alum adapter yet??

[thequadfather+2]

Marc at hot quads had his on the bike but had not mounted the plastic at that time. He mentioned that he thought it looked like it was gonna be tight, he runs the 30mm carb as well. I can take a pic later but it wont help much, mine was on the stock carb. I was happy with the position of the filter and plastic, no issue there.

I would like to know if it leaks. I thought we had ours sealed on two occasions but was wrong. I only used 4 psi and the guage was moving very slowly back down. When I sprayed it down with soapy water it was bubbling around the slotted hole. I ended up putting the RTV on the outside all the way around the bolt and slot.

Thanks

[qcitytile]

did you have to re jet carb and tune cvt or was you close after just bolting on?? I've only started ours because of the filter not fitting. Maybe I'll just get the kx boot!!

[qcitytile]

I couldn't tell you if its leaking because I dont have a leak down tester. Its next on the list. If theres another way to check let me know. By the way great post!!!

[don bassani]

Spray starting fluid around manifold while idling,if rpm changes or stalls you have a leak.

[don bassani]

I got my intake from hetrick,it came with proper screws and carb,jetted and with proper throttle cable.20 minute install.Rich did all the leg work so it was easy as it was a complete kit.No air leaks either.

[qcitytile]

basani did you use the kx boot or the alum adapter??

[don bassani]

boot

[thequadfather+2]

Here's a link to photobucket. The video is an edit I did while my 6 year old was playing around on his 70. This is the one we just put the intake on. You can hear the RPM's really climb a few seconds after going WOT. I cant tell if we robbed any bottom end yet but when it comes alive you can sure tell it. You can really notice it when he makes a u-turn in the gravel and pins the throttle each time. need to turn up the speakers to really hear it.

The 70 is a 2009 with a stage 6 sport pro cylinder kit, pcs pipe and stage 6 adjustable clutch with 3.5 rollers. It's jetted 118 / 45 / needle #2 from the top.

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/rotorwashphotos/?action=view&current=bradytestingtheintake.flv

[selbygirl]

can you run the stock reeds and cage with the kx boot with some modifcation done to the cage i herd someone in tennesse had a set up like that and it worked very well just wondering if eny one else have tried it and what modifcations they did to the cage

[Hetrick Racing]

No you cannot run the stock reeds,or did you mean stock kx reeds instead of v-force then the answer is yes.
There are other intakes out there that run stock or Koso style reeds though,one of them is very close in appearance

[Reimer Racing]

After talking to Wayne Hagerty he said we should be using the KX 60 boot. That way the throttle cable will not be up against the frame.

[rmuscle]

installed mine today . gotta say it really wasnt that bad. i didnt need to make any special tools or take plastic off , just used a regular allen wrench and a 10 mm open end for the front bolt , wich i used a hex head for. no problems with throttle cable hanging up either. only issue i see is i will need to trim fender. i have a 70 that has alot into it and i really didnt think i could get any more out of it , but this intake did def give me a bit more bottom and top . i dont have a leak down tester yet but i did spray around base when bike was running and didnt get any spike in rpms , i am making a tester soon and will really see if it fully sealed. biggest key i could tell you when installing is just take your time

Not to change the subject can someone please chime in and tell me the difference between Haggerty and Frazier other than the Frazier is reverse and big reeds. Are they even comparable to one another? Thanks just wanting to know! Happy holidays guys and gals.

[rmuscle]

Originally posted by thequadfather+2
Here's a link to photobucket. The video is an edit I did while my 6 year old was playing around on his 70. This is the one we just put the intake on. You can hear the RPM's really climb a few seconds after going WOT. I cant tell if we robbed any bottom end yet but when it comes alive you can sure tell it. You can really notice it when he makes a u-turn in the gravel and pins the throttle each time. need to turn up the speakers to really hear it.

The 70 is a 2009 with a stage 6 sport pro cylinder kit, pcs pipe and stage 6 adjustable clutch with 3.5 rollers. It's jetted 118 / 45 / needle #2 from the top.

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/rotorwashphotos/?action=view&current=bradytestingtheintake.flv
what rear sping are u running . i did notice a slight hesitation off the start on ours also , almost like rollers were a bit heavy , i run ztr1500 with 4.1 , im gonna drop rollers and see if it makes a dif

[thequadfather+2]

First with regard to the intsall, There should not be any problems when using a hex head bolt in the front. I did not consider it until I had problems getting the standard bolt back in it. When I switched to the hex head it went in alot easier. I did not have a leak when I sprayed around it, no change in the RPM's. I did have a leak when I put only 3-4 psi into it with the tester. I finally just put high temp RTV on the outside around the bolt and got it sealed. Brad Loomis actually chimed in early in this thread about using the hex head and I switched to it. You aint seen problems until you try to put the standard bolt back in it...

This thread should save a few headaches for those that just buy the intake and try to use the same hardware....

That quad has a ZTR 1500 in it and the spring was new. The rollers are light @ 3.5. That characteristic started after the intake change. It comes out of the bottom of the RPM's OK but really screams about 2-3 seconds after going WOT. It doesnt sound like a bog, sounds normal then hitting nitrous or something...

I have been satisfied with it, no complaints from me. I thinks it's worth the money.

[dcarter]

hey cheeseman, i think billie's was out for a while and copied to some extent. billie holt has had one for three years for the big reeds. i know this because i build them for him. our agreement was for them to go with his high end motors.
this intake should help on top end and mid, it looks really cool!!!!
billie f designed his intake for tt and a high reving motor the dude could really come up with some stuff.
any way that's my 2 cents!!! dave

Thanks Dave. I knew someone knew something about these. How are you Dave?

[hotquads1]

anyone have a pic of a Billy Frazier intake ? I've never seen one .

This uses the big reed set up Marc. Yz85 reeds.

[Coley'sdad#8]

are those 2 cast alum. halves screwed together???
man that is an expensive part to make if it is. looks kinda like a ship or monster or something i saw on a Disney movie once:eek2:

[Coley'sdad#8]

is that the 19mm snap on socket I loaned you?????????:chinese:

Heres a pic on a tester then it recieves new 44mm full circle crank and a radiator in the front with the 50mm big bore. 8 transports. This is my secret.

[quadrider79]

How much does an intake like this cost?

[TTracer#22]

Hay Marc,

I have one of those Frazier intakes at the house if you want to try it out let me know I will send it to you. It never worked on the 70 really but works really good on 90cc or bigger.

[gorpracing]

I just installed mine on a 90cc apex and the carb in is angled up. It looks way to hi for me, any of you guys have this problem. It should be on a level plane right.

[raidernut]

a slight angle wont bother it.

i brought this issue up and everyone thought i was crazy i also started making my own then to fix this problem

[qcitytile]

What carb boot are u using? We use the kx60 and if were not level we are really close. Only issue is with the filter on its really close to the plastics.

[gorpracing]

The angle is 20 degrees. Hetrick said it should be fine. The boot is the one then send with it. Not sure other then that. Will kx60 boot bolt strait on? Can I get it from the kawy dealer or does someone have one I can buy?

[Reimer Racing]

You might have the KX65 boot it will be just fine I am using the same boot on one bike and the kx60 boot on the the other bike. The KX60 boot does set the carb more level but either one will work. Just my 2 cents

[bloodswet&gears]

This uses the big reed set up Marc. Yz85 reeds. I know this is a very old thread, but. Who made these intakes, why do they not still use them? Were they made by/for Quads or scooters? Is a yz85 reed cage/boot right & the only one that works? Somebody knows something.

[thequadfather+2]

I know this is a very old thread, but. Who made these intakes, why do they not still use them? Were they made by/for Quads or scooters? Is a yz85 reed cage/boot right & the only one that works? Somebody knows something.


Hey man, not sure if that intake was made by hagerty. We have had several of them and none were built like that. I have used the rear facing intake as well. The goal of the intake is to use bigger reeds and move them up above the case. More airflow and smoother transition was what it was designed to do. At one time almost all the national quads in (90cvt) were running them. Later folks started using different versions, reeds, smaller intakes, ect. I believe there are slightly smaller intakes and carb setup's that will increase velocity of the air while providing a smooth transition. That will also give you better throttle response. I don't think its the best intake/setup for small or intermediate tracks. I think it's best used when on big tracks with long hole shots, ect.

[bloodswet&gears]

Hey man, not sure if that intake was made by hagerty. We have had several of them and none were built like that. I have used the rear facing intake as well. The goal of the intake is to use bigger reeds and move them up above the case. More airflow and smoother transition was what it was designed to do. At one time almost all the national quads in (90cvt) were running them. Later folks started using different versions, reeds, smaller intakes, ect. I believe there are slightly smaller intakes and carb setup's that will increase velocity of the air while providing a smooth transition. That will also give you better throttle response. I don't think its the best intake/setup for small or intermediate tracks. I think it's best used when on big tracks with long hole shots, ect. Thanks for the reply. Don't think haggerty made them. Longer intake runner works best with higher rpm's. Track size wont matter with the cvt. Clutch don't engauge at low rpms. Maybe the reed cage on this intake is too large. Think it may be a yz85 reed cage. Blaster is too large. Think you answered my question but I may still give it a shot. Thanks Bruce. Miss your videos by the way.

[thequadfather+2]

Thanks man, we missed racing this year.

I'm just throwing this out there for what its worth,this is just an informative post for anyone looking at intakes/reed valves. If there is someone out there considering changing things on their set up and looking for something like a Haggerty "style" intake they will find several versions. The reason its called a Haggerty is because they pioneered the first and most popular version. Later others were made in similar fashion. Maximum RPM and Chuck Losey were making a very nice piece (the best we used) for a long time until Hot Quads and G-Force made a different version later that worked very well. Then came a few intermediate size intakes that opened a few eyes by taking hole shots at the nats using smaller carbs....go figure.:uhoh: My theory: there is no magic intake, put the right intake with the right set up and bingo....

I just want to point out that, with regard to the intake, the clutch engagement is not the issue because most people set the clutch to hit at Higher RPM's where the engine is making power. The issue with the intake (on small vs big tracks) is throttle response which means a lot on an indoor track where the hole shot is 50-75 feet. I learned that the first year we ran big intakes. Marc Smith warned me about taking the big intake into an arenacross race but of course I always learn the hard way.:devil: A short intake with a little more velocity will have quicker throttle response and is an advantage for a small track with a short hole shot. Our best setup for a small track was with a machined/bored (polished) stock intake and 28mm carb.The reason high RPM engines perform really well with a big intake and Reed valve is because they are begging for all the air they can get and that big intake will give it. The RPM's are a by-product of how much air the motor can get in and out. Of course there are other things that effect RPM's but are not related to the motor itself such as clutching and gearing both of which can hold RPM's down. I tested numerous set-up's from Hot Quads and tested several proto-type intakes as well. Together with Hot Quads/G-Force we helped test a set-up where the reeds were rotated 90 degrees in the case. We tested small intakes that increased velocity and different versions of big intakes. When I say tested I mean with an RPM guage, gopro camera, timing lights and rider making run after run...no dyno pulls. What I found was there wasnt a magic intake...There were magic set-ups, but none based simply on the intake. We ran three types of engines 2fast non-ported, 2fast ported, and 2fast 89.9cc. We also used 65 and 85cc reed valves.

[thequadfather+2]

Thanks for the reply. Don't think haggerty made them. Longer intake runner works best with higher rpm's. Track size wont matter with the cvt. Clutch don't engauge at low rpms. Maybe the reed cage on this intake is too large. Think it may be a yz85 reed cage. Blaster is too large. Think you answered my question but I may still give it a shot. Thanks Bruce. Miss your videos by the way.

Billy Frazier intake - originally made for TT before Hagerty started making them. Hagerty's version was a bit different and the most popular very early in the intake development process. many moons ago.