1986 TRX250R Front End - Need some help guys!

[danhung11]

Posting for some help with these. I bought this front end off eBay, it was listed as a Roll Design Plus 2 Plus 1 Standard Travel. Can someone ID these A-arms?

Also, my shocks are brand new 450R revalved by Derisi and sprung for my weight and application. Do you know if these can be shortened an inch? They measure 17.5" eye to eye, I loved them on my 450R and were day and night different from plain stockers. Please note how close the springs are to the A-arms, would be better off selling these and buying another set of arms? It's just hard to let go since they are set up for me...

Thanks in advance.
Dan

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[Honda 250r 001]

The only way to shorten up those shocks would be to take them apart and put spacers between the shock valve head and shock body so it cant extend so far. 450r front shocks dont really work well on 250rs because they are just too long, they will work on some +3's but they bind the ball joints on most others.

[danhung11]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
The only way to shorten up those shocks would be to take them apart and put spacers between the shock valve head and shock body so it cant extend so far. 450r front shocks dont really work well on 250rs because they are just too long, they will work on some +3's but they bind the ball joints on most others.

Can you elaborate? Have you done this before? Doesn't seem like spacers is really going to do the trick, I was thinking having the shafts machined down...:ermm:

Sorry to ask additional questions, but you really didn't give me too much. :huh

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by danhung11
Can you elaborate? Have you done this before? Doesn't seem like spacers is really going to do the trick, I was thinking having the shafts machined down...:ermm:

Sorry to ask additional questions, but you really didn't give me too much. :huh

sorry i should have gone into more detail. Yes i have done this before, you have to take the shock apart. You install a couple of billet aluminum spacers under the valve head on the shaft. Just inside the seal head. And your done, throw it back together. The only problem with this is, you loose shaft travel. I would not machine the shafts down because then you can not put it back to stock if you want to sell them someday. If i were you i would send them to someone unless you want to tackle this your self.

[cdrookie]

putting spacers on the shaft is pretty common. i had my lt ohlins for a 450r shortened for my 250r.

[danhung11]

I don't understand how you can put spacers in and it will shorten shocks...:ermm:

I guess I'll grab another beer....

[cdrookie]

it limits how far the shaft can travel.

take a piece of half inch all thread with a nut and washer on top, put it through a 1" nut and sit it over a hole on your work bench. now take it out and remove the 1" nut and put it back through the hole on the work bench. it'll hang below the bench more without the nut,
which would equal more shaft travel if it was a shock.

maybe not the best example, but....

[danhung11]

Originally posted by cdrookie
it limits how far the shaft can travel.

take a piece of half inch all thread with a nut and washer on top, put it through a 1" nut and sit it over a hole on your work bench. now take it out and remove the 1" nut and put it back through the hole on the work bench. it'll hang below the bench more without the nut,
which would equal more shaft travel if it was a shock.

maybe not the best example, but....

So you are actually forcing the shock to compress? This seems like it would not be good as far as shock travel. I guess I will either sell these and try to recoop my money, but first I will talk to Santo and see if he can help me out.

What about a positive ID on the arms?

Thanks!
Dan

[cdrookie]

the difference between the lt ohlins of the cdale moto, and the st ohlins on the blaze, were spacers in the blazes shocks.

http://rolldesign.com/parts/honda-trx250r_41/roll-design-long-travel-control-arm-kit---honda-trx250r-(86-89)_681.html

[danhung11]

Originally posted by cdrookie
the difference between the lt ohlins of the cdale moto, and the st ohlins on the blaze, were spacers in the blazes shocks.

http://rolldesign.com/parts/honda-trx250r_41/roll-design-long-travel-control-arm-kit---honda-trx250r-(86-89)_681.html

The gussets on the lower arms by the shock mounts look really similar, however these are not LT and are not spherical ball joints, other than that they look like Rolls. I might call out and ask Paige to see if she can help. The arms I think are the older ones...

Thanks!
Dan

[troybilt]

Dan, something doesn't look right. You sure the top aarms don't need to be switched, i.e. you have the right one on the left side and vice versa. There is wayyy too much positive caster. I'm about 100% sure this is the problem with the aarms. I did the same thing when I first installed my Burgard's on my 250r. Also if the aarms are chromoly, we can move out the mounting point to allow for the 17.5" shocks without the "spacers".... I understand what they are saying with the spacers and it would shorten them. I'll try and draw a picture. We do this with hydraulic cylinders to shorten the stroke. But would add preload IMO.

Here is a crued drawing but you get the idea:

[troybilt]

I also don't see how you could add the spacers to shorten the shock length without having them revalved and resprung. Unless there is enough preload adjustment the springs would have an 1" preload on them from the beginning which would make them even stiffer.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by troybilt
I also don't see how you could add the spacers to shorten the shock length without having them revalved and resprung. Unless there is enough preload adjustment the springs would have an 1" preload on them from the beginning which would make them even stiffer.

you could remove the adjustible part all together and put just a non adjustible ring up there to give more room.

Like this

[312R1]

Dan..I think Troy is right the a-arms just don't look right. Try switching the top arms. The shock shouldn't be that close at all.

[danhung11]

Originally posted by troybilt
Dan, something doesn't look right. You sure the top aarms don't need to be switched, i.e. you have the right one on the left side and vice versa. There is wayyy too much positive caster. I'm about 100% sure this is the problem with the aarms. I did the same thing when I first installed my Burgard's on my 250r. Also if the aarms are chromoly, we can move out the mounting point to allow for the 17.5" shocks without the "spacers".... I understand what they are saying with the spacers and it would shorten them. I'll try and draw a picture. We do this with hydraulic cylinders to shorten the stroke. But would add preload IMO.

You also sure you didn't switch the top aarms on the HRE aarms too... :D

Here is a crued drawing but you get the idea:

There is no way the arms are backwards, if you look at the angle where the top ball joint mounts, there is no way the spindles would mount with the angle of the upper A-arm. I understand where you are coming from though. Also, when I bought these arms, the came with tie-rods, spindles, hubs, rotors, etc. The whole shabang, so it was a no-brainer how it mounted up. ;)

As far as the moving the mounts, I will will probably just get rid of these shocks or saving for another bike. :devil: Luckily, my brother had a set of 400EX shocks so this will allow me to get my bike into your garage. :D


you could remove the adjustible part all together and put just a non adjustible ring up there to give more room.

There is some things I will apply some afro-engineering to, however suspension is something I refuse to rig up. It's the most important part of a running bike. :macho

Troy - you make a decision on the Full Bores? I did see on their Full Bore's website, that it takes additional time to get full fenders so keep that in mind. Thinking of parting ways with my OEM fenders for the Full Bores.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 312R1
Dan..I think Troy is right the a-arms just don't look right. Try switching the top arms. The shock shouldn't be that close at all.

the top arms are correct, 100 percent sure, but the bottoms may be backwards or something.

[312R1]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
the top arms are correct, 100 percent sure, but the bottoms may be backwards or something.


I think your wrong..If he was to move the left top arm to the right and the right to the left it would put the shock in the center of the top arm or close to it where it should be.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 312R1
I think your wrong..If he was to move the left top arm to the right and the right to the left it would put the shock in the center of the top arm or close to it where it should be.

My laegers were like that, my frontline performance a arms are like that. Plus it would make the caster? I think way off.

[danhung11]

The angle of the shocks changed once they were correct size and could fit into the mounting positions, the arms are installed correctly. I also took a picture of the caster of my Laeger LT front end to show the difference. I would say there's anywhere between 2-3 degrees more on the Roll Design arms.

Now I just need to find some nice shocks, cause these 400EX shocks are some doozies, can't believe they even call them shocks.

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[troybilt]

PM you

[troybilt]

I agree to disagree... we'll getter figured out when you get the bike over here, next week. Here is a pic of my slicast on the 450r. Notice the top ball joint is more towards the rear of the bike than the bottom. This is positive caster, granted this is adjustable with the slicast feature, but I run 2 deg positive caster. This gives it a slower steering and more high speed stability. The more positive caster the more the steering wants to stay going straight. The more negative caster the more faster your steering and twitch-ier the feel. If that is even a word...

[danhung11]

Here's how she stands tonight, been working on it for several hours. The carrier is shot or at least the bearings are, they are almost crunchy. I have new set of bearings for the build. Also got the tires mounted, these 6-plys tires are meaty. This thing is going through a complete tear down and re-coating along with upgrades.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/danhung11/000_1741.jpg

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[matt250r21]

Dan,

Those are old school Roll arms.

[danhung11]

Originally posted by matt250r21
Dan,

Those are old school Roll arms.

Thanks Matt! I spoke to Santo today, he's going to shorten the front 450R shocks that I had revalved and resprung. :D

Looking forward to this winter project for sure! :blah: