Input on National Option

[mkeane]

With the hard economic times this is one idea Troy Szymborski came up with to try and get more kids/parents an opportunity to race at the national level. Please read and respond with any other ideas, suggestion, comments. We need to make it known to the promoters that this or a similar format will only help the attendance at the races.

1.) Make it easier for riders to attend the 2010 ITP/ Moose National Championship.
2.) Get more riders to national championship races.
we take the ITP/Moose Championship and split it into 5 sub series called the Northern series and the Southern series with the national champion decided at Loretta Lynn's. This is how it will work.

The Northern Series would be:
1. Walnut IL
2. Delmont PA
3. Millville MN
4. New Berlin NY
5. Buchanan MI
The Southern series would be:
1. Pell City AL
2. Bowling Green KY
3. Danville VA
4. Blountville TN
5.Armaugh PA

The 5 races in each sub-series would be totaled as followes. In the Northern sub-series, 3 of the 5 races must come from the northern series with the remaining 2 races coming from any race in the total series either nort or south. In the Southern sub-series 3 of the 5 races must come from the southern sub-series with the remaining 2 races coming from any race in the total series either north or south.

The champeionship wouold be decided at Loretta Lynn's. Where the race would be counted as 1.5 times the normal value.

Why do we split the series into sub-series? This will allow riders to race as few as 5 races and Loretta Lynn's and still win a national championship.

Why do we need to race 3 races from one sub-series and 2 more from the total series? 3 races from one sub-series evens the playing field, it makes a rider commit to one sub series where they will race against the same riders in most races. The 2 races from the total series allows for flexibility, it lets racers race when they can find the time or the money.

Why count Loretta Lynn's as 1.5 times a normal race? Loretta Lynn's will be the national championship race between the two sub-series. It allows the top 2 or 3 points leaders in the two sub-series a chance to become national champion.

[mini racer #39]

As i have posted earlier i am all for a north vs south series in these tough $$$ times. But say you have a racer that can run all 11 with 3 drops and does well at all 11 i would say that he\she would have a definite advantage as points go. Also i would like to see a mandatory race mid season (Kentucky) to see where you stand between northern and southern racers. What is fast in the north may not cut it against the south or vise versa. For the racer that does run all 11 are there points stripped if so how is that fair. People have always said that it takes $$ to make $$ and in the racing world the bigger the budget the better the machine (as we all know). Lets stay on this topic only if we are going to reply to this thread. Hopefully we can come up with something.
Jerry

[T@AFP]

I think this would be a great idea for sure. Financially it makes sense. But.....does the AMA really care? Hense the birth of the WPSA.
Is this just "wishful" thinking for 2010 or is this something that the AMA will seriously consider for the 2010 season?
Is there already a discusion amongst the AMA for a series within a series?

Is it the AMA's call or the promoters call to give this idea a "green light"?

Sorry for all the questions.

Bottom line is I am in for this N/S series.

Tom

[LT80]

"Is it the AMA's call or the promoters call to give this idea a "green light"?"
I'd say it's:::
Suposed to be the AMA. Altho, expierience says that the ATVPG will have the final say. And now that we have no voice (IMO) in the AMA/ATVA It's prolly a good thing.
I will give credit to the ATVPG tho as they have listened more (compared to years past) and have changed some things (like classes and throwouts) to keep up with the ever changing mini world.

Ok fellas (and gals), not to be all negative but ya'll might as well quit wasting screen space on this subject.
It's really not whether it's a good idea or not, it's the fact that thicker wallets race nationaly. That aspect will never change.
Those with lil money (like me) will have to settle with competing at the local level or attending choice nationals.
Another fact is that if the promotors think that they will suffer any loss of attendance because of a change, a change will not happen. That's business and we can't blame them. No profits= no racing.
Again, not that north/south..east/west are bad ideas, it's just not going to happen anytime soon.
I do applaud you for taking the time to try.....

[Ryko racing]

The idea is great, sure if someone races both series he /she would have small advantage but odds are no one will make 11 races without a throwout. ACTUALLY YOU COULD MAKE LORETTAS COUNT DOUBLE THUS ELIMINATING THAT PROBLEM.

I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT LOSING TO SOMEONE THAT RUNS ALL THE RACES IF WE HAVE A FAIR SHOT GOING INTO LORETTAS,
THE FASTER RIDERS USUALLY RISE TO THE TOP.

We unfortunately have to race nationals without a big wallet as the racing in michigan is pretty much nothing.
Its too bad that our district cant get it together as we have many great tracks.( 2 full series but no riders)

Actually Troy mentioned 6 races to make the promoters happy.
( 6 north or 6 south)

[Logan #34's Dad]

Unfortunately you will NEVER get enough people to agree to any change. To many things to be tweeked at once. These promoters and the AMA cannot stand us mini quad parents. (Or mini dirt bike parents) Like it or not thats how it is. We complain to much and none of us are ever happy. I'd say we are their biggest draw so they tolerate us.
Anyhow, I like the idea of a split series to save some cash but again we could not make enough people happy to make it work, everyone has an idea and think their point is best. The AMA-ATV leaders need to get togther and figure out how to keep the series alive. If they screw it up........ we go back to local racing.
Gary is on the right track, no big changes at first - they all have to be shown that the draw for their track will be as large as it is now. For most of these tracks this one National is how they pay the bills for the entire year.
I think a series inside the series is a good idea. As you basically posted it but along with the current system to see how it goes. These promoters and track owners need to get the word out locally for a better draw and explain the regional winner thing. As we all know, once you get sucked into the National scene it is hard to get out. LOL

[ward27]

if you dont like the format start your own series to many people have some great ideas but no balls to do anything about if you want it build your own series just for mini quads and gamble your own money because your basically wanting someone else to gamble theirs the series we run dont care about what we think it is all about dollars and cents

[mkeane]

this has nothing to do about having balls or money to start your own series. these are only sugestions to keep a good thing going and try not to lose people because of the way the economy is. ward27 you are taking this the wrong way we feel this will only help keep the numbers up which in turn keeps the dollar and cents coming in for the promoters.

[mxkids]

The North/South series has been brought up to the ATVA/promoters for the last 3 years, as well as other suggestions to try and help the riders and their familys save money. Every year it was the same response NO. Maybe they will see things different now. Who knows. But I am with LT80, I don't see it anytime soon. Maybe I will get surprised and they do make a change. That would be great.:)

[dirttrack86]

HHHhmmmm, Let's see, a series where I don't have to spend much money, I don't have to travel across the country, and I don't have to race against the best at each track, and yet still be called the NATIONAL champion. Wait they already have that series, it's called a xbox 360. You may make it cheaper and easier with what your proposing, but you need to take the word National off the Trophy. :)

[KLCRACING]

We have been racing in local series for four years and are now trying to run a few nationals. We have an "A" rider and a mini rider and like most of you have experienced money problems with trying to keep quads up to race quality because there is so much money lost in travling expenses. We live in Ok and the nearest track is 800 miles with the farthest being 1555 miles. What I'm saying is the more people travel the less money they have to make their quads competitive, let alone the kind of vacation time at work to travel the two days there and two days back plus some of us work rotating shifts thus have to work w/e's. It would be very hard for us and many others to make every race and alot of talented riders that could be national champs don't get the opportunity the be national champions only for that matter. I don't mean to offend anyone but are there racers out there that the only reason they are consistantly at top of points is because they have fatter wallets and can make every race, you betcha, does that make it fair, no, but once again the almighty dollar wins out. We will play by whatever rules are decided but if we have to vote we vote splitting n v s. However there is nothing saying you couldn't still race them all for the competition. JMO. Thanks

[STOCKRACING917]

I'd say that's true in all ranks of racing, NHRA,NASCAR, ect. Alot of good drivers never get their chance.
Unfortunately it comes down to the dollar.
Way of the world.

[mkeane]

i have talked to Troy who put this prposal together and was at the banquet and they are going to do a north south series. the details will be coming out. thanks to all that responded to this thread and hopfully this will help bring more kids to the races

[mxkids]

The series within a series that they are going to do will at least give the ones who can't run them all something. You will have to do all 5 in the South OR all 5 in the North. No mixing or matching. You must run all 5 to be eligable. So you will have a South winner and a North winner. It is just like the Media Allstars series that they did before where you had to run I think it was 3 races.

You still only have 1 National Champion which comes from the way it has always came.

Or at least that is how Carrie Coombs explained it to me Friday night.

Sonia

[dazed&confused]

am i understanding this right ,the n/s thing is a go ? were and when will the info be posted ?

[mxmike717]

Great news!

[jerkyboy]

Thats not the way I heard it. Is this somthing someone told you
in a face to face conversation. I don't remember this being said
to all that attended the banquet. What I heard was no north south series. But they would be doing something to honor the top
riders from the north and south.

[mxkids]

Jerkboys is correct. It is just like they did the Media Allstars. It is basically another series running in conjunction with the National series.

In order to get the number one plate and claim the National title it is NO different than in years past.

[skyeryder]

I think this is a great idea! I does change our plans for 2010 now but that is for the good.

[KLCRACING]

So the way I understand what you've told us is that there will be a north champ. and a south champ and also a national champ. in another words, two seperate series and a national series. Sounds pretty cool to us, that way we all have choices to make. Thanks to all who worked hard for this.

[STOCKRACING917]

I am understanding it is a series within a series. The north/south will be run in conjunction with the nationals. Not separate. It's like they did with the Quad Magazine series in 2008. They will split the national races already scheduled into north and south. So basically there is no choice as to which series only to which races you are willing to travel. Am I understanding Sonya? As far as recognizing north champ and south champ, I still understood one winner that way. Correct me if need be.

[mxkids]

It is a series within a series. The National Champion will come just like it always has. They take your best top 8 out of the 11 races. There is only 1 National Champion.

The North/South series is ran in conjunction with the National Series. You will have a North winner and a South winner. Think of it as a local series. Does this make sense? But in order to win the North/South you have to hit all the races for the North or all the races for the South. No mixing and matching. At least that is how Coombs explained it to me. Which makes sense.

In order to win the ATVA Championship they will take best 8 finishes out of the 11 races.

So in reality nothing changes as far as the ATVA National Champion.

For instance: I have no clue as to which races or North or South, I am just putting an EXAMPLE out there.

SOUTH-Must run all these races to be elgible for winner of the south series.
1 Millcreek
2 Bowling Green
3 Birch Creek
4 Walnut
5 Muddy Creek

NORTH-Must run all of these races to be elgible for the North winner
1 Steel City
2 Pleasure Valley
3 Millville
4 NY
5 Red Bud

ATVA CHAMPION
All the above races including Lorettas minus your worse 3 races.

Sonia

[LT80]

Kudos to ya'll and Carrie Jo!!
Hope it all works out for the best. :)

[quadracer707]

Is this just n/s thing for mini quads or forall classses??


Ken