Help me prioritize my mods

[bkelley]

Over the next few months I am going to be doing some mods to my EX, just not sure how I want to prioritize them. I'm on a pretty tight budget thanks to school taking up most of my time. I'm only averaging 15 or so hours a week. Should I go for looks or performance first? Maybe mix it up? This is what I was thinking:

1. Sparks Ignition Advance Key ✔
2. 450R Shocks ✔
3. +2 A-Arms ✔
4. Extended Rear Hubs


Then thinking sometime down the road going for the 440 big bore kit. Might have a new bike added to the collection by then that will be taking all my money, though.

[tayyo789]

I would say,
1. 450r shocks
2. sparks key/outerwears
3. cdi box
4. wheels

performance over looks. looks are expensive and dont last as long

[bkelley]

Yeah, I'm having second thoughts on the wheels. My dad's getting me a hookup through his work so I can get them done for pretty cheap. Pretty much the only reason I am still considering. Black wheels will look pretty legit, too.

[tayyo789]

they do, but they are still stock wheels. if you want black wheels, it would be a better investment to wait until you need new wheels and just get some that come in black, and until then, you will have just that much more money toward making your bike faster.

[bkelley]

Yeah, I may just go the spray bed liner route with them. I've heard that it holds up well from people that have done it. Would only cost me like $10 or so and could always re-coat myself. I'm definitely getting the Sparks key sometime this week, though.

Also, could I see a picture of that TRX650R? It just sounds like a beast.

[gt400ex]

Originally posted by tayyo789
I would say,
1. 450r shocks
2. sparks key/outerwears
3. cdi box
4. wheels

performance over looks. looks are expensive and dont last as long

X2 on this list, not sure if you are running your air box lid but drilling holes or adding an outer wears to the lid is a good mod too, theres also the aftermarket lids or just none at all.

Originally posted by tayyo789
I would say,
1. 450r shocks
2. sparks key/outerwears
3. cdi box
4. wheels

performance over looks. looks are expensive and dont last as long

x3 but don't waste money on the wheels or the cdi at all!!!

and i think the spray on bed liner would like like a55 on the wheels...and to be honest...the only wheels that look good black are hipers

[Wheelie]

I agree with Speedyquad. Don't waste money on a CDI, there are much better things to spend money on.

My machine is about as modified an EX as they come, I'm still running the stock CDI.

[400man]

what kind of riding you do, and how often??

[bkelley]

Alright, alright. I won't do anything to the wheels. Maybe I'll ask for some black ITP Bajas for Christmas. I ride mostly trail and dune (like a 60:40 ratio) and we go out pretty much every week now that it's cooling down.

Think I'll get the Sparks key and Outerwears lid this week and start looking for some shocks next week. Are TRX450Rs the best way to go? Other than Elkas and other high end ones of course. I've seen some ones off LTZs and YFZs on eBay for pretty cheap.

[F-16Guy]

I used to live in Moapa (if you know where that is), so I know the terrain out there. My advice for a list for you would be:

1) 450R shocks (they work great as-is on the EX with +2 arms)

2) +2 arms (either used, or a cheap set of new ones like Wicked)

3) G-Force Hubs or a G-Force Axle (hubs are cheaper and easier to install)

4) Wheelie's +3 Key (since you ride dunes a lot and live in a hot climate)


The CDI is a waste of money. New wheels might look cool, but the stock wheels are pretty strong, so if you have to have black, just spray them and buy new wheels when the stockers get torn up.

What dunes do you go to? Dumont? Amargosa?

[bkelley]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
I used to live in Moapa (if you know where that is), so I know the terrain out there. My advice for a list for you would be:

1) 450R shocks (they work great as-is on the EX with +2 arms)

2) +2 arms (either used, or a cheap set of new ones like Wicked)

3) G-Force Hubs or a G-Force Axle (hubs are cheaper and easier to install)

4) Wheelie's +3 Key (since you ride dunes a lot and live in a hot climate)


The CDI is a waste of money. New wheels might look cool, but the stock wheels are pretty strong, so if you have to have black, just spray them and buy new wheels when the stockers get torn up.

What dunes do you go to? Dumont? Amargosa?
I've been to Moapa a bunch of times, we go out to Logandale trails regularly. Also go to to Dumont, Armagosa, Nellis Dunes (it's not what it used to be), sometimes Glamis and Coral Pink. Made a trip up to St. Anthony's in Idaho a few months back, too.

But yeah, I want to get some new shocks but I don't really want to get into a-arms and the expensive stuff if I am going to be getting the 700XX like I hope to. If I can't get a good deal on one (shouldn't be a problem since they are going for like $5k out the door right now) I'll start putting some decent cash into my EX to make me happy.

You think Wheelie's key will be better? Will it provide the same gains as the +6 key? I don't ride much once it starts to hit 100°+. When I do it means a trip up to the local mountains or Utah. And I think I'll throw out the CDI box after hearing from more than a few people that it's not worth it.

[tayyo789]

Originally posted by bkelley
Also, could I see a picture of that TRX650R? It just sounds like a beast.

heres a link to the thread:
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=407937
I dont have any good pictures of it yet, because i had to leave it at home when i came to college, but when i go home for thanksgiving im going to polish it up and take some good pics for the next quad of the month contest

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by bkelley
I've been to Moapa a bunch of times, we go out to Logandale trails regularly. Also go to to Dumont, Armagosa, Nellis Dunes (it's not what it used to be), sometimes Glamis and Coral Pink. Made a trip up to St. Anthony's in Idaho a few months back, too.

But yeah, I want to get some new shocks but I don't really want to get into a-arms and the expensive stuff if I am going to be getting the 700XX like I hope to. If I can't get a good deal on one (shouldn't be a problem since they are going for like $5k out the door right now) I'll start putting some decent cash into my EX to make me happy.

You think Wheelie's key will be better? Will it provide the same gains as the +6 key? I don't ride much once it starts to hit 100°+. When I do it means a trip up to the local mountains or Utah. And I think I'll throw out the CDI box after hearing from more than a few people that it's not worth it.
The arms are the only thing that would bump the bill up, and you can usually get a pretty good deal on a used set. If you hold off on the CDI and PC-ing your wheels, you've just saved yourself $150-300, which is in the ballpark for a decent set of used arms, so you're really not spending much, if any, extra. The stock 450R shocks feel great with +2 arms with no modifications, so you can wait on a re-valve/spring.

I think Wheelie's key is a little safer than the full +6 degrees. You have to be careful with an air cooled engine - especially at the dunes.

[bkelley]

Alright, I'll go with Wheelie's key.

Also, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-400EX-LONESTAR-ADJUSTABLE-2-A-ARMS-CHROME-A-ARM_W0QQitemZ110452794006QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _ATV_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b77fe296

Every other set of +2 arms I've seen on eBay are $350 plus.

[F-16Guy]

That looks like a fairly nice set of arms, and I'd bet you could get them for under $300. If I were you, I'd just be patient, hold off on the unnecessary mods, and get the suspension done first since you already have a pipe and filter. It will make the biggest difference for you in both the dunes and desert. If you end up not getting the XX, then you can throw a high compression piston, cam, and 450R carb on and be ripping it up.

[bkelley]

Yeah, I think I'm going to get some shocks first (I can use my stock arms with some 450r shocks, right?) then get the arms in a few weeks. These ones here seem to be a good deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370281052597&viewitem=&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

Unless I can get those Lonestar ones for pretty cheap. I'll also check here to see if anyone has a used set for cheap.

[gtt416ex]

Originally posted by bkelley
Also, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HOND...=item19b77fe296

Every other set of +2 arms I've seen on eBay are $350 plus.


just to let you know....those arms are burgards. they're i dentical to the ones i have on my quad. Either way they're really nice a-arms

[bigbad400]

hes right those are burguards. i looked up the lonestars, they dont look the same at all.

[bkelley]

Yeah, I'd only pick them up if I could get them for really cheap anyways. Little too rusted for my liking.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by bkelley
Yeah, I think I'm going to get some shocks first (I can use my stock arms with some 450r shocks, right?) then get the arms in a few weeks. These ones here seem to be a good deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370281052597&viewitem=&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

Unless I can get those Lonestar ones for pretty cheap. I'll also check here to see if anyone has a used set for cheap.
Yeah, the stock 450R shocks will work on stock arms, but it might be a little stiff depending on your weight and riding style. Just dial down the compression, rebound, and preload a little, and you should be fine. It will definitely be better than the stock pogo sticks!

[bkelley]

Alright, cool.

New list:

1. Sparks key/outerwears (because I can afford it right now haha)

2. 450r shocks

3. Arms and probably those hubs you were talking about

[F-16Guy]

That sounds like a good plan. I think you'll be much happier with suspension than with a CDI that does nothing and a set of black wheels. You'll be amazed at how fast you can rip through the sand whoops with better shocks and a wider stance!

[bkelley]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna drop 2 teeth on my rear sprocket too. Make up for the loss of top end that my front causes.

[odog]

39mm fcr carb period.

[bkelley]

That ****s like $500.

[odog]

Originally posted by bkelley
That ****s like $500. well maybe get the 450r carb i never had one. but i will tell you that 500 plus that i spent on that carb it was well worth it the carb is the most bang for the bucks that you could get on these atvs. just look at my sig. the carb impressed me the most because a bigbore kit isnt all what it is hyped up to be if it cant breath. with my slip on pipe and my stock carb the bike still had plenty of torque and ran good but with that carb on it i dont mine racing raptors 700s or 450s.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by odog
well maybe get the 450r carb i never had one. but i will tell you that 500 plus that i spent on that carb it was well worth it the carb is the most bang for the bucks that you could get on these atvs. just look at my sig. the carb impressed me the most because a bigbore kit isnt all what it is hyped up to be if it cant breath. with my slip on pipe and my stock carb the bike still had plenty of torque and ran good but with that carb on it i dont mine racing raptors 700s or 450s. It just seems like an overkill to throw a bigger carb on a pretty much stock engine. I'd rather spend the money on bettering the suspension.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by bkelley
It just seems like an overkill to throw a bigger carb on a pretty much stock engine. I'd rather spend the money on bettering the suspension.
x2. If you look at his sig, he's got a 460. On an engine like that, you'd definitely see a huge difference, but probably not so much with a stocker. When you get a little more cash, a well built 406 or 416 would be a huge difference in power. I didn't realize how much more power mine made until I went to the dunes. I was shifting up where I used to have to shift down.

[bkelley]

Got a pair of brand new KFX 450R take-offs for $150 on eBay.

[bkelley]

Should I go for a new steering stem before the a-arms? What benefit will I gain from aftermarket arms?

Arms: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300366178563&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2&category=43974

Stem: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300331901509&viewitem=&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2&category=43967

[Pipeless416]

do you need the extra height of the stem? the arms will give you A LOT more stability, especially when paired with a wider axle. i would definitely shoot for the a arms, but they will probably end up selling for a little more than they're at now..either way, you can't go wrong with burgard!

[bkelley]

I really need the extra height of the stem, I'm 6'5". I was thinking possibly even +2. If I do get some arms, I don't want them to be much wider, if at all, than stock.

[Ncboost]

Originally posted by bkelley
I really need the extra height of the stem, I'm 6'5". I was thinking possibly even +2. If I do get some arms, I don't want them to be much wider, if at all, than stock.

Why would you not want wider than stock a-arms? That's the whole purpose of buying them...
I tell you what, you buy a set of +2 a arms and I'll trade you my new stockers for em lol.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by Ncboost
Why would you not want wider than stock a-arms? That's the whole purpose of buying them...
I tell you what, you buy a set of +2 a arms and I'll trade you my new stockers for em lol. Because I don't really need it to be any wider and then I'd also have to get an extended axle and all that jazz. Don't know if I want to invest that much into this bike right now.

I realize that second sentence was a joke, but it didn't make any sense at all...

[tayyo789]

if you ride a bike with wider a arms, your thoughts on whether or not you need it will completely change

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by bkelley
Because I don't really need it to be any wider and then I'd also have to get an extended axle and all that jazz. Don't know if I want to invest that much into this bike right now.

I realize that second sentence was a joke, but it didn't make any sense at all...

If you want to ride most national forest trails they have a max width. Here where I ride its 45" max and they will bust you for being over.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by tayyo789
if you ride a bike with wider a arms, your thoughts on whether or not you need it will completely change I'm sure it would but the point of the thread is that I can't afford to buy everything I want, especially something as expensive as arms and an axle. I'd love to do it, but maybe at a later point if I can afford it. I think a +1 or +2 stem would be benefit me more right now.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by bkelley
I'm sure it would but the point of the thread is that I can't afford to buy everything I want, especially something as expensive as arms and an axle. I'd love to do it, but maybe at a later point if I can afford it. I think a +1 or +2 stem would be benefit me more right now.
I hear ya' on the what benefits you the most.
At 6'5" you definately want some taller bars.
I noticed in your sig that you already have some Tag T2 bars, and if those are Hi-bends, you might not be able to add the +1"-2" stem, without changing brake, and throttle lines too.
just something to think about and check before you spend the cash.

I'm 6' and have some hi-bends bars. I still wanted taller.
When I tried to add some 1" spacers to the mounts, I was unable to use them due to the cables/hoses, didn't have enough length to allow turning the bars fully.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by tri5ron
I hear ya' on the what benefits you the most.
At 6'5" you definately want some taller bars.
I noticed in your sig that you already have some Tag T2 bars, and if those are Hi-bends, you might not be able to add the +1"-2" stem, without changing brake, and throttle lines too.
just something to think about and check before you spend the cash.
Hmm... that never even crossed my mind, good looking. I have the ATV bend which I think it the highest but I do have a bit of slack on my cables still. I think I could definitely get away with a +1, maybe even +2. I'll have to go look, though.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9990/bikepictures036.jpg

[TRXRacer1]

I really liked my setup for woods. I had stock arms, works triple rates and ITP Baja wheels with +1 offset giving me that little added width. Paired up nice with my lonestar axle set at +2 and handled great.

[bkelley]

So, I got the Sparks key installed, KFX 450R shocks installed and I think I'm ready for the next mod. Just don't know how long it will take to save up from some arms. I think that's the last thing I'm gonna do to it. I kinda want to get a 416 kit; 11:1 87mm piston with a stage 1 or 2 cam. Just don't know if I could do something like that myself. Never done anything that extensive to a motor.

[tayyo789]

If you want to do the 416, just read up on it on here, and ask questions before doing anything you arent sure of. Label every part you remove, and take pictures of how everything goes together before you take it apart. And most importantly, get a manual, and follow it like its jesus.

[bkelley]

I have the Clymers manual already, got it with the bike. I'm fairly confident I can do it I would just hate for something to go wrong. I do have a few questions, though.

Are bigger studs needed for a 416 kit? Will I have to get the cylinder machined for it? I can run 92 with 11:1 compression, right? Lastly, should I get the arms first or do the 416 kit?

I'm pretty happy with the stance of it now, the KFX shocks widened it up a bit. I've never rolled it (knock on wood) in the 4 years I've had it, so I'm not exactly too worried about it. I ride pretty hard, too. Only time I've crashed is when I came up on a pretty steep hill (it was too late to take it slow so I just rode it out). I caught a good amount of air and would have landed it, but my left front hit a rock and bucked me off. The bike never actually stalled, just kept rolling along 'till I hopped back on. I rode off like nothing happened.

[Pipeless416]

i can't really answer on the arms vs 416 thing.. both have their advantages.. honestly, i think the arms combined with an axle will make riding faster possible. studs depend more on your compression than your bore size. yes, the bigger bores can create more heat due to the thinner walls, but so does higher compression. i have them installed on my 11:1 416 for what its worth. and yes, you will need to have the cylinder bored to 87mm.. if you do this, make sure the machine shop has the piston you're going to install with them.

[bkelley]

Yeah, I don't know what I want to do. I'm gonna call my local shop tomorrow and get some numbers from them for the machine work. Really wish I had to money when I found those new +2 arms on eBay for $200.

Also, how reliable are the 440 kits? I was thinking about going that route but I don't want to have to tear it down and rebuild it all the time.

[tayyo789]

Dont do the 440 unless you need to. If you are going to bore, go 416 first. 440's usually have problems, but some are fine, it just depends on maintenance and what you have done. But if you get a 440 and want to go back down for reliability, you'll have to buy a whole new cylinder, and thats no fun. plus the 416's make damn near the same power. At least mine feels like it does. But its all up to you. If you want to go with the arms, go for it. Most big bores end up being more money than what you see listed, because of shop fees, machining fees, and other parts like a cam and stuff. If the arms are only 200 bucks then go for it, considering the big name brands can get upwards of 800

[bkelley]

Yeah, I think a 416 kit would be perfect for me. I'm gonna look into the total costs of it and see if it's something I can afford to do.

[tayyo789]

The downside to the a arms is the extra width for trail riding. You almost cant go wrong with a properly installed 416 though. As long as you take care of it, which i can see you already do, it will be a good option.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by tayyo789
The downside to the a arms is the extra width for trail riding. You almost cant go wrong with a properly installed 416 though. As long as you take care of it, which i can see you already do, it will be a good option. Yeah, like I said, the stock width has never been a problem for me. At the same time, I don't ride extremely tight trails so +2s wouldn't be a problem at all.

[F-16Guy]

You know, if you're fairly happy with the width, you could go with a pair of +1 standard travel arms and leave the rear stock. That would improve the ride and stability quite a bit, soften up the 450R shocks, and save you some money on hubs or an axle.

A mild 416 would look like this (assuming you did the teardown/re-assembly):

Piston kit -- $150
Gaskets -- $35
Cam -- $140
Bore/hone -- $75
Studs --$100 (installed)
________________

Total -- approx. $500 (plus shop supplies and jetting)

[bkelley]

So I might be getting some +2 arms here soon and I was wondering where the best place to get brake lines was. They don't have to be steel braided or anything, just need some new ones to accommodate the +2 arms. I found these ones here but I'm not sure what the going prices is to compare.

Link (http://tinyurl.com/steellines)

[F-16Guy]

I can't see the link because my work computer blocks it, but I bought mine from American Star Racing (www.amstarmanufacturing.com) when I bought my arms. Their lines are very good quality and cost $69.99. Rocky Mountain has some for $75. Braided stainless lines are a huge upgrade to 400ex front brakes. My were always really spongy, even after I bled them. Once I installed the new lines, my brakes were 100% stronger.

[bkelley]

So I got the arms (new Burgard +2 +1s) off eBay for $227. I'll probably get some braided lines eventually, but for the time being the stock lines will be sufficient.

Also, how will the ride be with the arms installed but the rear still with the stock width? I'm planning on getting some G-Force extended hubs but I was gonna wait a bit since I'm pretty tapped out on cash.

[F-16Guy]

The problem is that with +2 arms, especially +1 forward, the stock lines may not be long enough when turning. You can give it a shot, I guess.

[bkelley]

I've been told by several guys here that they run stock lines with their +2s just fine.

[Pipeless416]

yep i still have enough slack at full left or right