rocker arm problem...think im screwed

[rocky_mtn_honda]

Originally posted by monkeyballs
...as long as you did not do any thing horribly worng like not flip back one of the valve rocker arms it should be fine...
what would happen in this case? bent rocker arm? wouldnt it be obvious to see with the naked eye? after my rebuild, i realized it was ticking quite a bit more than just the good ol' "honda tick"...well i went to adjust the valves first obviously, and realized one of the sub rocker arms were flipped back not making contact with the other arm or the valve for that matter. so i ran it that way once in the garage, then i figured it out when adjusting the valves so i pulled the valve cover and fixed it immediately. ticking went away almost completely...then i rode it and broke it in, then decided to install my sparks key, went smooth...then we went riding again, and i noticed the ticking was back...the louder one, not the regular "honda tick"and the only thing done, was the sparks key. i used a wooen dowel in the spark plug hole to find tdc, and made a new mark on my flywheel since the key changed my marks. its definately coming from the rocker area and is definately so loud, it makes everyone who listens to it kringe...i can post up a video, but im just not too sure on if it would help or not...it sounds like every other ticking 400ex i've heard on here and youtube, its just really gnarley in person. a little background on what was done in the build:
407 wiseco 10:1 comp. stock cam
crf450 cam chain
450r shocks
tensioner was good still, as far as i can tell...plenty of spring left
the carb is jetted nicely complimented by a cardboard color plug
140 main 38 pilot
this noise seriously makes my newly built machine sound like junk. should i pull the sparks key and see what happens?
just tryin to get some ideas, and thinking outloud i guess.
thanks for any and all input. and if anyones local and cool, come over and have a listen....lol
sorry about the long post, but its just super depressing after putting all the blood sweat and tears into this turd.

[rocky_mtn_honda]

for what its worth, i've narrowed it down to the decompressor sticking and holding the right exhaust valve slightly open...i've heard theres a part in the clymers manual telling you how to unstick it, if anyone can verify this let me know. ive tried turning over backwards and listening for the snap of the decompressor, which didnt work as far as i can tell...its still stuck and ticking loud as HE11!

[matts27]

If it helps any, mine ticks like a typwriter and all is in spec. Worse after it gets hot and idles, If I snap the throttle open and run it it goes away. Now, does your ticking/tapping consistent with rpm's? Meaning gets louder all the way up to full throttle. If it goes away i'd say it the stock decompressor, continues up, better check that head ( valves ). Hope this helps and good luck, know the feeling all to well.

[dalejiw25]

Quote from Clymers
"If the decompressor is jammed, it will cause a steady ticking sound from the right exhaust valve when the engine is running. If all valves are loose except the rightexhaust valve, when the engine is at T.D.C.,This can indicate that the decompressor is not releasing properly. To release the decompressor, quickly pivot the wrench fitted to the crankshaft bolt back and forth. the quick changes in the camshaft direction should release the decompressor from the valve"
Good luck

[rocky_mtn_honda]

im fed up with it at this point for sure...been reading engine noise posts for days on end, with plenty of great suggestions...but not one ive found someone say they did one thing and it was fixed, unless it was a problem i know i dont have, because it was replaced in the rebuild...these posts usually end in "eph it...im just gonna ride her till she blows" lol WTF?
or the original person with the question just bows out of the thread and people speculate for days and talk about random ***** like its an open forum
o well, ill get er figured out

[rocky_mtn_honda]

Originally posted by dalejiw25
Quote from Clymers
"If the decompressor is jammed, it will cause a steady ticking sound from the right exhaust valve when the engine is running. If all valves are loose except the rightexhaust valve, when the engine is at T.D.C.,This can indicate that the decompressor is not releasing properly. To release the decompressor, quickly pivot the wrench fitted to the crankshaft bolt back and forth. the quick changes in the camshaft direction should release the decompressor from the valve"
Good luck

thanks a bunch...been lookin for that for a week lol
all i have is the honda service manual, which doesnt enlighten anyone to this obviously common issue. ;)

[coreo5]

if the decompressor is jammed...you would have a exhaust valve stuck open...there for no compression...there for no running motor. correct?

[rocky_mtn_honda]

negative, the decompressor just opens the valve a few mm to relieve some of the motors compression to aid in easy starting
PITA as far as im concerned...and im pretty sure its making my brand new motor sound like *****...im just gonna upgrade the cam
screw it...then itll still tick and it goes on and on eating dollars like candy :mad:

[dalejiw25]

If you go with an aftermarket cam, You don't have to put the decompressor back in. The aftermarket cams are not set up for that. Just make sure you remove the spring and dowell so they don't end up somewheres bad. You are right,It'll still tick but not as bad. If it's a 400 It'll tick. A trademark I guess. Mine is Dyno-tuned and I still hear it. You gotta learn to love it. It's gotten me so pissed in the past, I've tried to blow it up. I think now too that that's near impossible .... lol

[rocky_mtn_honda]

just an update...pulled the sparks key out and put the stock woodruff key back in, and it quieted right down...advancing the timing must have something to do with this situation...weird

[rocky_mtn_honda]

AHH! the noise has returned...i've had it with this, i wanna move on to bigger and better things like suspension and whatnot.
could someone tell me if it could be an oil viscosity problem?
its not that cold yet, at least im not running it on the super cold days. i was running it around 50-60 degrees outside, and im running 20-50 GN4...should i switch to the 10-40? could that cause the ticking at a cold start and even when the motor gets warm?
just an fyi, im running the 20-50 gn4 because i got a killer deal on a case of 6 gallons for $50, figured it was better than paying 28.99 a gallon at the stealership

[dalejiw25]

Dude It's a 4 hundo, Chill out It's gonna tick no matter what you do. Ride it like it's a $2 Ho.

[rocky_mtn_honda]

lmao...right on. only problem is, im very familiar with the honda tick, and this is definately a bit more than the standard tick. its not right when people come up to you sayin "WTF is about to let loose in your top end man?"
but thanks for the insight!

[TRXRacer1]

Strip the auto decomp from you cam. You don't need it and it's free to try.

You have checked to see if your auto tensioner is working right?

[rocky_mtn_honda]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
Strip the auto decomp from you cam. You don't need it and it's free to try.

You have checked to see if your auto tensioner is working right?

well when i installed it back on the bike after rebuilding, it had good tension ya know...you couldnt push it in with your pinky or nothin...i would just replace it, but for $70...that seems a little steep for not knowing its bad in the first place. for what its worth, i could not figure out that chain tensioner for the life of me, so i went down to the local honda shop and the guy in the service department showed me the trick with the mini flathead, and how to retract it and stuff...you woulda thought if it was bad, he woulda sent me over to the parts counter to buy a replacement...i thought the decompressor mech. had to be on there with the stock cam, or is that just the dowel and spring that have to be there, if the decompressor mech. is present on the stock cam?
thanks guys, like i said, im ready to move on to suspension...dammit! :o

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by rocky_mtn_honda
well when i installed it back on the bike after rebuilding, it had good tension ya know...you couldnt push it in with your pinky or nothin...i would just replace it, but for $70...that seems a little steep for not knowing its bad in the first place.
Yikes, find a new parts counter! The OEM Honda tensioner is $52 from cheap cycle parts. My last tensioner went from fully functional to completely broke in seconds. On the other hand, I'm not big on replacing working parts either.


Originally posted by rocky_mtn_honda
.i thought the decompressor mech. had to be on there with the stock cam, or is that just the dowel and spring that have to be there, if the decompressor mech. is present on the stock cam?
You remove it all. The spring and plunger and the whole mechanism on the cam. You don't need any of it. Toss it in the trash.

[rocky_mtn_honda]

right on...will post up results by the weekend
thanks for your time!

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by rocky_mtn_honda
right on...will post up results by the weekend
thanks for your time! Just remembered, you might need a press to get that sprocket hub off and back on the cam. Good luck, I have a gutted cam in my bike and it works great.

[rocky_mtn_honda]

yea my uncle has a press in his shop...and ill be sure to tell him to be freakin careful with that flange too, if i dont just press it off myself but anyhow, good lookin out!

[fourtrax_r]

if you remove the decompressor from the cam be sure to remove the cam setting plunger and plunger spring from in the head. don't want that to fly around loose in there:confused:

[rocky_mtn_honda]

so yea...figured i would update everyone who has assisted in diagnosing this noise. found the issue just as soon as i took the valve cover off to take the cam down to my uncles shop and press the decomp. mech. off, the freakin cam gear allens were loose as a goose, musta forgot the loctite...anyhow, i cant stress enough how critical loctite and triple checking your fasteners is. the cam gear was in there buckin side to side, the allens were loose enough to thread out by finger, but they hadnt backed out very far at all...you couldnt tell they were loose just by looking.
needless to say, this could have been a MAJOR clusterphuck gone unattended to. thanks for everyones help! :D
suspension time!