Ridiculous Starting 06!!!

[Jason Hall]

Well, I have a 06 450er, It has a NEW starter clutch and gear (Honda Recall). This Is the second one way clutch since It was new. The origional was replaced under the recall, by the time I got It the second one was worn out. It will spinn over about 3/4 of a turn then the starter will free wheel. It does this mostly when the weather get's cold. It has done It ever since I got the thing. The day I put the new one way clutch & gear In It free wheeled the first time I tried to start It. I can't believe Honda would be so friggin STUPID to desighn a starter that has to spin like 4 gears before Is finally spins the crank. Once It's been started It will start great until It cools completly down again. Can I tighten up the compression release arm to help this PIG start????? I'm about fed up with this thing!!!

[coryatver]

First thing make sure you NEVER EVER touch the throttle while hitting the start button they kick back and rip the starter clutch right out of it.

To make it start better jet it they are very lean stock and make it a pain to start especially in the cold weather. Put in a 48 pilot and 72 leak jet and correct main jet for your exhuast/intake setup I have a 170 for a full exhaust and hrc air box lid.

Also make sure the decompression lever is adjusted correctly. Get a manual and follow the directions on how to do it.

next thing make sure the valves are adjusted correctly. The valves sometimes tighten up over time and make it a pain to start.

Also make sure you start it when it is in neutral. Even if you are in gear and have the clutch pulled in the clutch still drags and makes it harder to start.

This thing isn't a 400ex you can't just jump on it and ride and put it away wet it is a high performance machine.

[Jason Hall]

The carb has been jetted. It has an adjustable needle, along with the correct leak jet. The baffle was removed from the stock pipe, and the airbox lid has been removed, and a bigger main jet Installed. It has a 02 CRF cam with the compression release arm adjusted to the factory spec. It started the exact same way when completly stock.

I've been down this road LOTS. I know the drill to not touch the throttle. Like I said, It free wheeled the day It was Installed new. The engine won't even spinn 1 complete revolution before It free wheels the starter. I run Honda GN-4 10/40 oil, jetting has nothing to do with the starter clutch kicking out. I have read hear before that the compression release arm can be tighten up some to aid with starting. I will do a better search to see If I can find the Info I need. Sorry to sound pissy, but I just can't stand this thing. I'm seriosly considering a kicker convertion kit.

[Dave400ex]

This is why I sold my 06ER after like 7 months of owning it and bought an 07 kicker. Never wanted e-start since.

[coryatver]

Originally posted by Jason Hall
The carb has been jetted. It has an adjustable needle, along with the correct leak jet. The baffle was removed from the stock pipe, and the airbox lid has been removed, and a bigger main jet Installed. It has a 02 CRF cam with the compression release arm adjusted to the factory spec. It started the exact same way when completly stock.

I've been down this road LOTS. I know the drill to not touch the throttle. Like I said, It free wheeled the day It was Installed new. The engine won't even spinn 1 complete revolution before It free wheels the starter. I run Honda GN-4 10/40 oil, jetting has nothing to do with the starter clutch kicking out. I have read hear before that the compression release arm can be tighten up some to aid with starting. I will do a better search to see If I can find the Info I need. Sorry to sound pissy, but I just can't stand this thing. I'm seriosly considering a kicker convertion kit.


have you checked the valves? Sorry if you did but I didn't see you mention that you have. If they are out of adjustment the thing is almost impossible to start. Also head porting, valve job makes it 10 times easier to start.

I have installed the kicker on my er and never use it. If I stall racing it, it is so much easier to just hit the start button and save energy and let the starter do the work instead of kicking it. Kicking it over doesn't make it start any faster. I don't even use the kicker for dead engine starts because if it doesn't start the first kick the starter works faster.

Also another thing that has me thinking something is messed up with the valves/jetting/decomp is that it is hard to start cold. Usually it is opposite they are hard to start hot and fire right up cold. I put on a CRF carb becuase they have hot start on mine but since I got it tuned up I haven't even used the hot start lever.

[Jason Hall]

I guess your not understanding what I'm saying LOL. The engine will not spinn over without the one way starter clutch free wheeling. The valve's are PERFECT. It runs GREAT when It's running, It make's AWESOME power, It just wont rotate the engine when the weather gets cold. I wish the valve's would cause the problem I'm having, but they won't. If my 450 Is In gear the starter has a HELL of a time even turning the engine over. I need to find neutral to make It start. I have read here that people add on a second battery to give the starter 24 volts to spinn the engine over. I think Honda had their head stuck In their BUTT when the added 4 gears before the starter spinns the crank. Normally a starter Is linked directly to the flywheel with a one way clutch, not through the clutch basket and a couple Idler gears!!

[coryatver]

yeah unless it is warmend up well mine won't start in gear it makes the whole bike move even if the clutch is pulled in. If you got a new starter clutch and it still is messed up must be something else in that area messed up. I think honda did what they could this engine is designed for a kick starter.

[wckedclownz69]

Light It On Fire... I hate problems that never end...

[coryatver]

Originally posted by wckedclownz69
Light It On Fire... I hate problems that never end...

haha if it comes to that let me know i will come pick it up i need a practice bike lol

[Jason Hall]

Yup, I think I will light It on fire, Or jack up the radiator cap and drive a new quad under It LOL HE HE. I see a kicker convertion In my future.

[BSTURDIVANT]

The double idler gear that sits above the starter clutch is also a torque sensing gear that will freewheel when bad- had a couple that acted the same way! Update should have had the gear also but most shops won't put them in!

[Jason Hall]

I Installed the small gear your talking about myself along with a new one way clutch. Honda Installed the recall for the origional owner, I then Installed the complete recall myself when I got the quad. I'm starting to wonder If the hole machined In the case that holds the small gear could be worn causing the problem. I understand Honda has a special tool that puts torque on the gear, and that determine's whether It Is replaced or not. Tonite I'm going to change the trans oil to some HP gear oil (red bottle) like I always run In my 250R's. If that doesn't work, I will get the kicker convertion parts.

[warr72]

24 volts is the cure. ;)

[snacob14]

kicker is an easy install, I got rid of my Estart on my 06 all together, you will always be chasing starter problems with that setup. mine starts first kick, everytime. It would be nice if it worked don't get me wrong, but I don't want to fight with it like I did the first time I raced on it. went from 2nd to 10th waiting for it to start in the woods.

Originally posted by snacob14
went from 2nd to 10th waiting for it to start in the woods.

that can't be...are you saying a e start 450r has trouble starting when it is warm...nooooo...you must have had a lemon or the only one like that...at least that is what everyone tells me when i say i had that exact problem and state that as one of the main reasons that i went back to a 400ex for trail riding...


by the way, coryatver is the current owner of my 450r...when we traded, it was starting a lot better, but still not great...some of the changes he had made improved on it...

[snacob14]

believe it brother;p best mod I ever did was get rid of the starter completely, even honda sells a plug that fills the hole where the starter used to go. haha

[Jason Hall]

I changed to the thinner oil, and I'm thinkin I will tighten up the compression release arm and see what happens.

[450rJam]

I love my e start, I waited till the last month of the recal to get my starter gear replaced
(it was still starting great but I wanted it replaced with new in case it was worn at all)

turning the idle up a 1/4 turn helped alot

adjusting valves and setting the decomp with a comp. tester in leu of the feelers really helped (set @ 65psi)

if I would have picked up my quad at dealer and it free spun at all I would not have taken it home

[Jason Hall]

450rJam- are you saying to Install a compression gauge, then slide different size feeler gauge's between the compression release arm while cranking???? Thats a friggin great Idea!!!! I will do that as soon as I know for sure I have the correct size adaptor for my compression tester.

I changed the oil In the trans to an Allison Truck approved oil, It's allready better.

[troybilt]

So far I love my E-start bike, just bought it. 30 years old with a blown knee... makes it a lot easier and less painfull starting :macho

Great thread, great tips... thanks.

[450rJam]

Jason

use feelers to shim valves then use compression tester to set decomp.

once you get it between 60-65 psi tighten down the jam nut and your good to go

[Jason Hall]

450rjam - I miss understood what you said In your previous post. I was thinking since I have the release arm set to .014, I could slide a .004 feeler gauge between the release arm & exhaust rocker, bump the motor over to see how much that lowered the compression. Then I could simply tighten the arm up to .010. Anyway, I probly added alot of confusion for other people and for that I'm sorry :ermm:

[450rJam]

no problem, just didnt want you to mess it up because I wasnt clear enough

[250rPRIDE]

i sold my 06 450er after one month of having it. it hated starting and it sounded like someone was beating a hamer on the inside of the starter when turning over. i hope it holds out for a good while i sold it to a buddy i work with...