Explain widening and fender cuts

[VTredneckgames]

Would someone please explain to me why people widen their atvs and why you would cut the fenders?

I dont race, I only trail ride. I could see how widening would make one more stable, but the trails I ride, it would only make you have to take a chainsaw to widen them up. Plus the speed we usually ride at, I dont see any advantage. So why?

Do you cut fenders so you can see the wheels better?

I really have no idea why. Ive always wondered though.

[matt14c]

Well you answered your own question on why to make your quad more wide. Its makes you more stable, brings your center of gravity down making you less top heavy and allowing you to carry more speed into corners.

For the fenders you cut your fenders to take away the drag that they cause when moving or in the air. Its not a calculated difference but im sure if you would put a stock fender quad in a wind tunnel and a shaved fender quad in there it would show a difference but not sure how much faster if by much it makes you. For others I think they shave them because they look nicer. I used to have shaved fenders but now that im not really racing anymore im going to leave my maier the way they are.

[VTredneckgames]

so is fender cuts purely for racing? atleast as an advantage.

I dont really see how they could make you faster by reducing drage on a mx course. Not at the speeds you are going. Maybe in drag racing.

So for those that cut them that dont race, is it just for looks? To me it looks terrible. Not to mention the fact that you must get covered in dust and mud trying to ride anywhere with them like that.

and I just dont see the point in widening for stability unless you race either.

Maybe I just ride like a wuss??

[rodeo#11]

from personal experience i can tell ya that having the fenders cut and riding trails helps...i ride in nc to and the mountain trails here get rutted all the time its nice to be able to see the wheels and line em up so ya dont bust it... and as far as gettin covered in mud and stuff its actually not as bad as you think the fronts dont kick up that bad..and most of the time it is purely for looks.

[Pipeless416]

have you ever ridden a quad with extended a arms and a wider axle?

[VTredneckgames]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
have you ever ridden a quad with extended a arms and a wider axle?

no.

I really just dont think I ride hard enough for it to matter. And like I said, I would have to take a chainsaw with me on the trails I usually ride.

but like you are hinting to, I would probably notice a difference. But I believe it would hinder me more.

And I guess that cutting them wouldnt get much dirtier then you do already. Because I throw plenty of water as it is. Dont really see how it could get worse. lol. Especially in shallow stuff.

[Pipeless416]

i see where you're coming from, but where i ride, going wider with new shocks has made me wayyy faster than having the extra power. theres no comparison.. i never feel like im going to get on two wheels from cornering too fast.

[matt14c]

You keep saying that you would have to take the chainsaw with you but you do know that for trails or cross country you typically dont get +3 arms they make +1. Here in michigan ive been on most trails in the state and have ridden them on my mx built 400 with little problems. Sure I have bent a couple tie rods and one good time a tree jumped out in front of me and I bent a front wheel. Never bent an a-arm and never bent an axle. Until you ride a wider quad you will never have an idea on just how big of differnce it really is. Most upgrade suspension because the stock 400 sucks but just because you get new suspension doesnt mean that you have to go +3. Even if you were to put better shocks on your stock arms it will make a HUGE difference.

[Bill Martin]

Originally posted by matt14c
Well you answered your own question on why to make your quad more wide. Its makes you more stable, brings your center of gravity down making you less top heavy and allowing you to carry more speed into corners.

For the fenders you cut your fenders to take away the drag that they cause when moving or in the air. Its not a calculated difference but im sure if you would put a stock fender quad in a wind tunnel and a shaved fender quad in there it would show a difference but not sure how much faster if by much it makes you. For others I think they shave them because they look nicer. I used to have shaved fenders but now that im not really racing anymore im going to leave my maier the way they are.

Fender cut's are to be able to see the tires. If you think that by cutting the finder it will some how have less drag then I have ocean front property in Ohio I'll sell you. There’s no way cutting the fenders will have an aerodynamic effect.

If you think your dogging mud from the front tires now just wait till you cut them.
Unless your ridding MX keep the fenders.

If you just ride trails then leave it stock, if you make it wider you do get some stability but it changes the geometry and it will be less stable in a strait line.
I have +2's on mine front and back and it's the same in width as it is long witch makes the wheel base square and less stable in a strait line. And when you go wider it won’t turn as sharp.

For trails stay stock and save your money.
In 08 I ran in the GCQRA all year on a bone stock 400ex and put the stink on all those 450’s all year long. All the mods in the world won’t help if you can’t ride.

[sab24711]

hey i have +2 all around and i only trail ride.i didn't set the quad up that way it just had them when i bought it. there are only a few spots maybe 3 that i have to slow down cause the trees or rocks are tight but even for a stock width quad you have to take precaution. but who ever said you don't get that muddy or wet with race cuts is a liar the only time you don't get wet is when you wheelie through the water or ride a dirt bike.

[VTredneckgames]

thanks for the replies guys.

Im not planning either mod. Just wanted to know the basics behind them. Thanks!

[MtnEX]

Us eastern woods riders are in the minority of ATV forum surfing riders I think.

On my 400EX, I attempted to see if I could do a reversible setup that would make me wider than stock for the open trails and narrower for the tight between the trees trails so I could run the 300EX/Warrior trails.

But it did not work out...

Set wide, I did not like the feedback from the front in the rough stuff.... and reversed narrow, I was too narrow in the rear.

So I snatched up a set of stock front rims... and have been running the wide rear a while now.

And by wide, I mean 47.5"... which is still narrow to these guys... but too wide for me.

It has done wonders for stability.
It's just at MAX width for me, which I don't like.


Honestly, the best things you can do for the 400EX for this type riding is get really good sport tires... 20's and 22's... Like ITP/Maxxis/GBC/Kenda... Then do "something" with the suspension, and swap the rear link for a good XC link.


WIDE is not the only way to get stability.

My race bike is twice as tip resistant as my 400EX, and it's 2" narrower and has tires that are much harder to slide.

[MtnEX]

And here is my race bike (XC) in the woods for all you guys who just don't understand....

(I had to grind my steering stops as a mod)

[wrekd]

That KFX is sweet!! How do you like it??


EDIT: More pics please??? :D

[Muzzgit]

Before I put +2 aarms on, all I had was 2" spacers on the axle and it handled well. Now that I have put +2 aarms it squirms all over the place in a straight line and the rear loops out too easy when power sliding.

The wider back end is great for me, we do tight trails but also heaps of dunes and fast open tracks, so the 4" wider back end is probably where I should have left it.

I ride with 3, some times 4 DS650's and a widended Rappy 700, so if they can get through, I'm fine. The DS650 is 50 inches at the back wheels like my 400 with spacers.

I couldn't imagine riding a stock width 400EX

[sab24711]

all depends on where you ride.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Muzzgit
Before I put +2 aarms on, all I had was 2" spacers on the axle and it handled well. Now that I have put +2 aarms it squirms all over the place in a straight line and the rear loops out too easy when power sliding.

The wider back end is great for me, we do tight trails but also heaps of dunes and fast open tracks, so the 4" wider back end is probably where I should have left it.

I ride with 3, some times 4 DS650's and a widended Rappy 700, so if they can get through, I'm fine. The DS650 is 50 inches at the back wheels like my 400 with spacers.

I couldn't imagine riding a stock width 400EX

Yeah, the wheels taking me to +2 in the rear made a huge improvement, and I also do better overall with the stock front and +2 rear, although a lot of people must think that's weird.

I went back to stock once and about killed myself... 2-wheeled it pretty quick, lol...

Better suspension all around and about stock width would have been the better answer....

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by wrekd
That KFX is sweet!! How do you like it??


EDIT: More pics please??? :D

Thanks alot...

I rEEEEEaly like it now.
I have a lot into it in order to get it to that point.

I'll see what I can dig up...

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by wrekd
That KFX is sweet!! How do you like it??


EDIT: More pics please??? :D

OK... here are just a few pics....


This is how it sits the way I usually run it as of now...

I have a bit more left to do...

[MtnEX]

And here it is with my HD's on Baja's from my 400EX... for visual purposes...

Where I have taken it to...

[MtnEX]

And what it has came from since I brought it home new in march...

[wrekd]

Looks sweet with those bajas on there. A set of fronts would complete it. I think the silver rims look better too. What size are those rear tires??

How does the low end grunt compare to the 400ex's?? My friends YFZ sucks off the bottom end. It looks like Kawi geared that quad for the woods and the track and not just track like Yamaha did. Being the Kawi has reverse and all.

When I get a new job I'll be looking into a KFX or a Raptor 700. I LOVE the torque of my friends Raptor but he's having trans problems already (3rd gear wiped out). And the 450's have a bad track record for motor problems. My friends 08 YFZ locked up on him once already...lol

I would rather get a TRX450 but no reverse and still carbureted :rolleyes:

[MtnEX]

Well, I used to hate black rims and think they were the stupidest thing ever too, because the black gets beat off.

That's one of 2 reasons why I had the D/Baja set on the back in the one pic with stock tribal graphics... And to me, it WAY looked better with the raw aluminum. So i figured I'd run the rims until they looked bad, then send them out to get the rest of the powder coat off.

But since then, I have changed the graphics, and over time, the black has really grown on me... and it's stood up OK.

I think the smart way to go there is beadlocks. Either Hipers that stay color even scratched... or colored rims and raw aluminum beadlock rings... or colored rings because it's less of an affair to take those off, blast and re-do. The inside rarely gets messed up.

Anyways, I was trying out some XC fronts on aluminum rims and snapped a pic just to remind myself my mind has changed about all aluminum rims.

Looks OK on the back, but not the front... black looks better with the new graphics...

(it's more trouble though for sure)

[wrekd]

I don't hate black rims. I just think the silver looks better on your quad. JMO though.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by wrekd
Looks sweet with those bajas on there. A set of fronts would complete it. I think the silver rims look better too. What size are those rear tires??

How does the low end grunt compare to the 400ex's?? My friends YFZ sucks off the bottom end. It looks like Kawi geared that quad for the woods and the track and not just track like Yamaha did. Being the Kawi has reverse and all.

When I get a new job I'll be looking into a KFX or a Raptor 700. I LOVE the torque of my friends Raptor but he's having trans problems already (3rd gear wiped out). And the 450's have a bad track record for motor problems. My friends 08 YFZ locked up on him once already...lol

I would rather get a TRX450 but no reverse and still carbureted :rolleyes:

Rear tires... I only run 20's...

I might would suggest a 21" in the GNCC though. I hear it is very little taller new... and it's also 11" wide like other aftermarket tires. The 20's are 10" wide... look stock at that width and profile from a distance.

Low end grunt comparison to the 400EX... It doesn't compare! PERIOD.

Being higher trans geared in 1st, being short stroke, and having the fuel injection sensors... well it stalls easy on the bottom as it wants to pull faster than the engine and sensors want to lug.

My EX is geared down though... 14/38 final... and that is the stock final on my KFX. But the KFX wants to go way faster in 1st due to the trans gears. It's set up more in 1st for good launch traction for the holeshot.

I think the KFX needs to be 6 speed, so I can gear mine for lugging and everyone else can gear theirs to run 80.

With that said though, it's really pretty good now that I have done the exhaust. Stock it killed every other 450 off the bottom, including the built YFZ. But the KTM 450 did have a little on it before... as it is long stroke and SOHC like the EX engine. Now with the Jardine exhaust it is better though.

I don't think you can choose a better 450 for the woods, or for XC racing. It's solid and stable stock, has good supension, delivers good woods power for a 450, and has the best reverse setup I've ever seen.

The KFX 450R engine and trans has proven to be really reliable too, just with basic service, and it's not proving to be high maintenance either. The valve adjustments aren't even a frequent thing.

Nothing is failing, and they don't need rebuilding all the time, so long as you don't lean them out.


Myself I was down to the KTM, the KFX, the Outlaw, and the 700R....

And I had found a TRX450R new leftover for $4,000.

Then I was offered a deal I couldn't refuse on the leftover '08 SE KFX.

The KTM was twice as much, the Outlaw didn't have the fit, finish or ergos, and the Raptor was too tall.

So I ruled out the KTM, wrote off the Outlaw, and passed on the 700R because I knew I'd spend thousands getting the ride height down.

Now I was very tempted on the TRX450R for that price. But I have been around them quite a bit... and STOCK, well I think they suck.

For me, a TRX would have to go on the lift day-one. It would need cams, exhaust, intake, and jetting. And suspension wise I'd have to strip it back to the frame. All new arms... A and Swing, linkage, and aftermarket shocks/springs.

Bottom line is it would have taken $10,000 or more total investment right off the bat... and I still would not have reverse.


If I could change anything about the KFX, I'd change....

The internal trans gearing, and open up the ratios, making it lower on bottom and longer between. But I think I'll just get a Rekluse clutch system and call it a day.

And some days, I wish it just had a carburetor. The EFI is GREAT, the response is unmatched, and you can't beat it taking care of itself for altitude and temperature.

But it is complicated, the sensors are sensitive/finicky, and it's just a lot to worry about in an off-road setting.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by wrekd
I don't hate black rims. I just think the silver looks better on your quad. JMO though.

I'd like to have Hipers with green rings.
The price bothers me though.

Especially when the stock wheels are great.


I would not mind to have a set of these front and rear beadlocks though, as they are cheaper, would look good, and should allow me to do my own tire changes.

http://www.atvsource.com/images/article_images/articles/2009/douglas-wheels/champ-box-all.jpg