Part out & new machine or keep it? Use logic - Not emotion.

[thedeatons]

So, here is the question...

Keep my 250R and continue to repair things as they go bad

-OR-

Buy a brand new quad (cheap this winter) with a 4 year warranty, and sell it every two years.

The former option keeps me on a 250R, a pro level machine that needs maintenance.

The latter option keeps me out of the garage. If it needs anything I take it to the dealer.


I am not sold on either one, just thinking out loud. Which choice makes the most sense realistically? Doesn't matter what the new machine is, that is not the point. The point is buy one, do NOT modify it, and just enjoy it for two years.

Logical thoughts?

James

[250Renvy]

What are you going to use it for?

Do you like 2-strokes?

Realistically once you replace everything and make it like new again your quad should last a long time - if you aren't professionally racing. If you are professionally racing then it doesn't matter what quad you have the dealer will not cover your wear items and you will have a much bigger bill when you do need to repair a machine.

BTW compare apples to apples - in order to keep your 4 year warranty you can't do anything to the motor and it still doesn't cover topend jobs - only failure.

450's are Race machines and require a lot of rebuilding (very expensive) if that is the route you are going. If you just want something to play around on - you are looking at a Z400, 400ex or Raptor or 700xx. They are NOT the same as a 250R.

[TLR-Online]

You said it... It all comes down to wrenching on it.

If you want to work on it, but love 2-strokes - 250R

If you want to ride with simple maintenance - New bike.

Its the same way with every toy. If you buy old, plan to work on it some.

[b.lee]

If you trail ride... for long trail rides, then sell.

If you do not, dont sell
You'll never find a machine that even comes close to comparing to that Laegar framed beast

[86 Quad R]

a say keep the R and put money into it a lil at a time till you get it to where you want/need it and in the meantime get the new bike with the warranty and just ride. this way you get to keep the R and have TWO bikes. :D

[Aceman]

For a logical unbiased answer, ask your question in other forums too.

[troybilt]

What they ^^^^^ said. If you modify pretty much at all you can kiss the warranty goodbye, depending on what you do. If you are like me, I can't leave anything stock.

However, I just bought a 450R myself, but only to compliment my 250R. I'm fully aware of the money they cost and I've only owned it for about 3 weeks now.

One thing I noticed and this is my $0.02 as far as part costs: The engine rebuild, bottom end especially, for the 450R is obviously more expensive, but everything else seems to be cheaper as far as aftermarket stuff, you can find loads of quality used aftermarket stuff at a reasonable price. The 250R, prices for used aftermarket stuff seems to be jacked up, because everyone quit making them. So to say the 250R "as a whole" is cheaper is sort of a stretch, IMO.

[Saul76]

Calling dibs on the AC Rear Grab Bar! :D

Part it! Part it!

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Saul76
Calling dibs on the AC Rear Grab Bar! :D

Part it! Part it!


OMG! and i couldnt see them circuling for the low lying cloud cover. :blah:

[Saul76]

Probably take that 4G tank too! :D

Have you started taking it all apart yet?!

:p

[Honda 250r 001]

450rs require more work than a 250r, and more money. remember that 250r's are 20 + years old so they will require some fixing up, but once there in good shape, twill last a long time.

honestly it doesnt matter for me what it costs, it doesnt matter how old my machine is. It doesnt matter what aftermarkeys cost, cause im a 2-stroke junkie, im addicted. So if your not that way, go join the rest of the people with a pipe and a payment... :/

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
450rs require more work than a 250r, and more money. remember that 250r's are 20 + years old so they will require some fixing up, but once there in good shape, twill last a long time.

honestly it doesnt matter for me what it costs, it doesnt matter how old my machine is. It doesnt matter what aftermarkeys cost, cause im a 2-stroke junkie, im addicted. So if your not that way, go join the rest of the people with a pipe and a payment... :/

him well aware of that as he came from the C-Dale world previously. :cool:

[derby]

Originally posted by thedeatons
So, here is the question...

Keep my 250R and continue to repair things as they go bad

-OR-

Buy a brand new quad (cheap this winter) with a 4 year warranty, and sell it every two years.

The former option keeps me on a 250R, a pro level machine that needs maintenance.

The latter option keeps me out of the garage. If it needs anything I take it to the dealer.


I am not sold on either one, just thinking out loud. Which choice makes the most sense realistically? Doesn't matter what the new machine is, that is not the point. The point is buy one, do NOT modify it, and just enjoy it for two years.

Logical thoughts?

James



Just wondering if you have ever had a bike warrantied? Just judging by the modified R you have you will not be able to keep a new 4 stroke stock. The dealers here will not warranty any motor if it has a cam or mods. Then you bring the bike in for bushings or bearings and they will say it is your responsibility for normal wear. Maybe there are better dealers but since the economy is putting the squeeze on these dealers they will be less inclined to take care of you. Not to mention it takes them a couple of weeks to make a repair here. And the bike sits outside in a parking lot with no shelter to the elements. I just realized how ghetto the dealer is here.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by derby
Just wondering if you have ever had a bike warrantied? Just judging by the modified R you have you will not be able to keep a new 4 stroke stock. The dealers here will not warranty any motor if it has a cam or mods. Then you bring the bike in for bushings or bearings and they will say it is your responsibility for normal wear. Maybe there are better dealers but since the economy is putting the squeeze on these dealers they will be less inclined to take care of you. Not to mention it takes them a couple of weeks to make a repair here. And the bike sits outside in a parking lot with no shelter to the elements. I just realized how ghetto the dealer is here.


That's funny, most of the dealers here, I wouldn't trust them working on my tricycle. Half of the techs are straight of highschool with a 3 day degree. If its a major motor issue, I'll send to a rebutable builder and everything else I'll fix myself. So to me the warranty isn't worth the paper its written on.

thedeatons,
I don't think you could go wrong either way, keeping the 250 or buying a 450. If you have the money you should keep the 250, if you can regardless, if you go with a 450, its a piece of history. Goodluck to you!

What fun is a stock anything?

[thedeatons]

I ride dunes. Pretty much only dunes. Not enough dirt to even speak about. The new quad would be a 450 class quad.

So, how has your warranty experience been? The point of buying new would be to not have many breaks in 2 years, and if it does I would drop it off at the dealer. No way would I buy a new one and wrench on it too, that is self defeating.

The whole purpose of buying new would be to avoid breaking/wear for a while because I am on new parts.

Another couple hundred dollars and my R will be close to new all around too though.



***I guess my biggest fear is getting this thing where I think it is done for a while, only to keep breaking things each trip. The Cannondales did that, you could buy everything on the "reliability list", but they still broke.

My Cannondale riding friends believe that everything breaks all the time, so they never switch. My theory is that there has to be something that will not break for a while. At this point I would like to just get one season out of something without wrenching heavily. (air filters, chain lube doesn't count)...

James

[Ruf Racing]

Is the dunes that hard on these bikes, that something is going to break on every trip?:ermm:

[troybilt]

Originally posted by thedeatons
No way would I buy a new one and wrench on it too, that is self defeating.

...not if you don't trust the dealer to fix it correctly the first time, then you are going back and forth waiting for days at a time. At least that is my experience with my RZR... on stupid little crap that would have cost me 20 bucks and 30 minutes to fix myself. I went thru this twice with my front hub bearings on my RZR. It was brand new with 4 hours of ride time, bone stock.

Sounds like you R is almost perfect, I'd stick with it. My 89 R is perfectly stock and 20 years old and never been touched except for a couple of bolt ons, hell its in better shape than my 450. Hows that for reliability.

I guess it comes down to whether you want to work on it or not. If you ride hard all things break. Its just whether you turn the wrenches or someone else does. I prefer to work on things myself but that is me, I enjoy it. Also, keeps my blood pressure down! ...from b#tching at dealers :D

[latheboy]

If I had a Laeger 250r, I wouldnt be happy on a stock 450r. Your 250r has better suspension and more power. I'd stick with it, or plan on modifying the 450r.

[312R1]

James,

I built my R a few years ago, and sence then I haven't had to turn one wrench on it. It has somewhere around 30-40 hours of riding on a mx track. So once it's built you really don't have to worry about it other then your normal things..like change oil, filter and lube everything.

my .02

-Steve

[86 Quad R]

i'll 2nd that.......

[250Renvy]

James, once you have everything done to it, what do you think could possibly break once it's completely done?

Dunes riding is conducive to engine failure because of the long periods of WOT. So either a 450 or a 250R will have equal chances of detonation - however the 250R will be way cheaper to fix.

[matt250r21]

You have a full Laegers R, keep it and enjoy it.

[8686]

Originally posted by matt250r21
You have a full Laegers R, keep it and enjoy it.

x2

[RyanWsly]

I really don't know about the durability of my 450R yet, but i really don't touch much between rides with it, seems like my 250R I always do though, age is a factor there I think. You really didn't ask this but I'll tell you that I ride my 450 more often due to the fuel consumption and for some reason I just don't feel near as wore out when I'm done riding, can't really explain it. Suspension is basically the same, they feel almost identical in every way, I just seem to take the 450 when I go now, it always seems ready to go. I have owned a ATC250R since I was 15, 17 years I've had it now....... and I love it, love my TRX250R too, but the 450R is what I ride mostly now and I've had it for a year, seems very durable, is an 05, just has a pipe, suspension and some HRC parts nothing special, plenty of power for the woods and stuff that I ride in. My 250R is not near what yours is, but comparing mine they are basically the same to ride for me, I have no favorite to speak of between the two, if a friend needs a ride I let him pick which he wants, I think either is an excellent bike, I have no plans to sell my 250R, but I am also very happy with my 450R as of now. Hope this helps you some.

[thedeatons]

Yeah guys, all this stuff helps guys.

I have no idea what will break next. I am not really bugged now except for the fact that I wasn't expecting every bearing/seal to be bad, and that I am still fighting this engine case repair. I just don't have a lot of money right now. The last thing I need is a wonderful toy that breaks to the tune of $100 dollar bills every 3 day dune trip... ya know?

I know a stocker would never be right for me, but I also cannot spend $7k then drop more money into it.... I could probably part the Leager for $5k, then get something new with that, with a warranty.

Dunes can be hard on things. Lots of high revs, high vibrations. The clutch and tranny don't see wear because the tires just spin, no hard launches to destroy drivetrains.

Like I mentioned I had Cannondales for 3 years, so I guess I need to give the R at least two more years. Maybe I have just had growing pains with it... The ignition problem, the things I had to change because of neglect, all the little things I have done that have added up in cost, etc...

For now I guess I will keep the R, and monitor things (expenses) for next season. It does everything I need really well, I just want her to hold together....

James

[All250R]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Yeah guys, all this stuff helps guys.

I have no idea what will break next. I am not really bugged now except for the fact that I wasn't expecting every bearing/seal to be bad, and that I am still fighting this engine case repair. I just don't have a lot of money right now. The last thing I need is a wonderful toy that breaks to the tune of $100 dollar bills every 3 day dune trip... ya know?

I know a stocker would never be right for me, but I also cannot spend $7k then drop more money into it.... I could probably part the Leager for $5k, then get something new with that, with a warranty.

Dunes can be hard on things. Lots of high revs, high vibrations. The clutch and tranny don't see wear because the tires just spin, no hard launches to destroy drivetrains.

Like I mentioned I had Cannondales for 3 years, so I guess I need to give the R at least two more years. Maybe I have just had growing pains with it... The ignition problem, the things I had to change because of neglect, all the little things I have done that have added up in cost, etc...

For now I guess I will keep the R, and monitor things (expenses) for next season. It does everything I need really well, I just want her to hold together....

James

James,
every 250R that is bought used should be completely disassembled and gone through. having said that when the engine is completely fresh, it will last a long, long time with basic maintenance including piston changes, particularly if the setup is modest.

Setting up the chassis such as all the grease points that people notoriously overlook, and freshening up the suspension, including basic setup to match the front to the rear makes the chassis feel new again. Also don't forget cables. Those little things all add up to make a new feeling R. People get discouraged when the bike feels old and has questionable llifespan left in wear parts. The initial setup on a used R is a chunk, but the bike will last a lot longer than a 450 will for the same money and you can modify it how you want, work on it yourself, and not have a monthly payment as a nice reward.

[Aceman]

My R has been very reliable. I've put 24 hrs on it so far since an engine rebuild and the only serious problem I've had is I just smoked the clutch. But, I haven't touched the clutch in the 4 years I've owned it.

The way I look at is, the only difference between an R and a new quad is it's old and a 2 stroke. Everything else is the same. If you go through the quad like All250r said and replace bearings and give it an overall "checkup" they seem to last a long time. I thought I'd be wrenching on mine all the time when I first got my R, but aside from replacing bearings as they start wearing out, it's been super reliable. No different than any other quad...

Put some time into fixing it right and you can rest assured it'll last for a long time. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.;)

[dynofox]

I'd keep your R honestly. I work at a Kawasaki, Suzuki and Polaris dealership and can have any machine for below dealer cost and still have (2) 250r's. The 450s are nice but I like 2-strokes better and its fun having something most don't. You'd never be happy going to a stock 450 from what you currently have (aside from maybe a KTM).

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by dynofox
I'd keep your R honestly. I work at a Kawasaki, Suzuki and Polaris dealership and can have any machine for below dealer cost and still have (2) 250r's. The 450s are nice but I like 2-strokes better and its fun having something most don't. You'd never be happy going to a stock 450 from what you currently have (aside from maybe a KTM).


Dynofox - PM'd you.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
450rs require more work than a 250r, and more money.

I have heard this statement so many time since I joined this forum and it's a load of crap, I bought a 450R in 06 when the went to electric start, installed pipe, filter, jet kit, quick shot and swing arm....Rode that thing like I was running from the police and NEVER had a problem.....It was a great bike and easier to ride than my Banshee's. I only sold it and purchased my 250R because of the price and all the upgrades that came with it. If my R didn't have a 350PV motor I would still say the 450R would be an easier bike to ride.
I like the R because I like the style and I enjoy working on all my own bikes.....As for warranty....It's a sport bike, I void warranties within days of owning my bikes:)

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by hondamancbr03
I have heard this statement so many time since I joined this forum and it's a load of crap, I bought a 450R in 06 when the went to electric start, installed pipe, filter, jet kit, quick shot and swing arm....Rode that thing like I was running from the police and NEVER had a problem..... It was a great bike and easier to ride than my Banshee's. I only sold it and purchased my 250R because of the price and all the upgrades that came with it. If my R didn't have a 350PV motor I would still say the 450R would be an easier bike to ride.
I like the R because I like the style and I enjoy working on all my own bikes.....As for warranty....It's a sport bike, I void warranties within days of owning my bikes:)

you have been one of the golden childs........... blessed even. any of the quads will be costly up front. whether its rebuilding a ventage 250r or buying a new 450 but you have a misconception as to whats being meant by "more costly"

you blow any of the engines of the 4 poke variety and compare the quadospital bill to what it would cost compared to a 250R. :eek2: i can build 3 to 3.5 engines for the same price. :cool:

[rockingkfarms]

Do not sell it! There's two 250 R's and a stock motored 450R sitting next to each other in my garage. If you ride them back to back, I'm almost certain you will not choose the 450. Bushings, bearings, etc. are wear items and do NOT last forever...even on a new bike. That warranty that comes with the 450 is basically useless with the exception of catastophic failure. You possess a really nice 250R, finish restoring it and enjoy. I'm giving you an unbiased opinion, I have a variey of bikes. You will NOT be satisfied with a stock 450 after climbing off that R.

[05LSR250R]

Keep the Laeger James! Dont get gun shy cause of some normal wear items! I built my 05 LSR in 07 and have literally hammered on that thing like an anvil ever since! You are still gonna have the typical items like axle bearings and such but once you get it fresh it will last a longer than you think! Stay away from the pressure washer also!

[Honda 250r 001]

just keep her clean, dont ride it through a lot of **** (water, mud, sand) and grease things often and you will be amazed.

[89rwfo]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
just keep her clean, dont ride it through a lot of **** (water, mud, sand) and grease things often and you will be amazed.

This is where my 250r lives, racing gncc style races. I have to use a pressure washer to get it clean (unless I devoted 12 hours of scraping mud with my fingers)
I just have to replace carrier/swingarm/a-arm bushing more often. I have never seen an off road toy that didnt eat bushing/bearings etc. It is a part of the game BRRRRRP!

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
you have been one of the golden childs........... blessed even. any of the quads will be costly up front. whether its rebuilding a ventage 250r or buying a new 450 but you have a misconception as to whats being meant by "more costly"

you blow any of the engines of the 4 poke variety and compare the quadospital bill to what it would cost compared to a 250R. :eek2: i can build 3 to 3.5 engines for the same price. :cool:

It has nothing to do with being blessed, I take care of my machines, change oil often, make sure my jetting is spot on, watch my water temps......As for the costly rebuild, I do all my own rebuilds and as people have pointed out, 250R parts are becoming harder to find and going up in price. It seems like people feel they have to justify wanting/liking a 250R over the newer Honda tech......In reality it's ok just to like the 250R for what it is, one of the best frame designs ever made, one of the best riding positions I’ve sat on.....All in all just a really great bike. But I speak from experience not from forum reading, the 450R is an excellent bike and could go many seasons without any problems....Valve adjustments are the only thing different than the 250R.

This is nothing but an opinion based thread, above is merely my opinion with asome experience behind it.

[All250R]

Originally posted by hondamancbr03
250R parts are becoming harder to find and going up in price.
I think it's more fair to say that everything is going up in price. Honda doesn't target just the 250R. In fact you can find better deals on 2stroke parts because they are less in demand. I'm not a marketing major, but cost is typically most effected by supply vs demand. 2stroke parts are on friggin sale when I can find a piston in ebay for $75.

People are defensive of the 250R for me what are obvious reasons. There's a bias in the marketplace for a replacement product that some people (not you) do NOT want.

It's not a matter of opinion either that between a 2stroke and race-tech 4stroke in equal condition, the 2stroke is cheaper to maintain. Both bikes have pistons and even are more expensive for the 4stroke. You don't have to be an accountant for the rest to be obvious... An engineer either... look at these diagrams for example if you're not 100% clear (I just happen to have some handy):
http://www.all250r.com/250Rvs250FTopEnds/4tvs2tTopEnds.html

Buy 250R's that are in equal maintenance condition as the 450 you're considering and you'll save money. Otherwise, if cost isn't a factor, buy and ride the 450 because you love it! But don't be confused about the engine maintenance cost comparison.

[Aceman]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
just keep her clean, dont ride it through a lot of **** (water, mud, sand) and grease things often and you will be amazed.

DID YOU MISS THE PART WHERE HE RIDES DUNES??:huh :rolleyes:


Originally posted by thedeatons
I ride dunes. Pretty much only dunes. Not enough dirt to even speak about.

[thedeatons]

Thanks guys... Your opinions really do matter!

I would have trouble buying a new TRX450R, they are going through Ti valves and valve seats every two years. My good friend builds hot engines and said he is always doing Honda head work.

I think we will stick with the R for now, and just throw a bit more money at it to make sure everything is perfect.

James

[2muchquad]

yeah keep the R,you would lose your tail if you parted it.Only a few die hard '"smokers" would buy the expensive parts and if too mhigh they would buy the stuff for their 450. seriously my last 250r was about about as reliable as they come,only had a blown head gasket because i lost coolant from a bad hose.changed the gasket and never had a bit of trouble.It just comes down to priorities i guess,you feelin the need to "convert" and get the 4 stroke or still like to be different and not conform like "everybody else":D

[thedeatons]

Yeah, last year I came off of three years of 4 strokes. I am NOT feeling the need to convert.

I suppose I was just wondering whether a new quad was going to provide a ot of reliaility.

James

[2muchquad]

every now and then i think about buying a new quad but then reliality hits me,i cant see spending 7grand on a toy that i may end up cartwheelin down a hill,we do lots of hill shooting(err..cliff climbing) in these parts.Plus i dont mind tinkering because it gives me a reason to get into the garage.Now dont get me wrong,theres a difference between tinkering and pulling a motor because my plastic oil pump gear got chewed up...been there done that;) but i dont mind workin on them as long as its somethiong i WANT to do and not because i have to.Like im going to put a fcr carb on my z440 because i cant leave nothing alone even though it starts right up and runs good now,i cant help it:D

[rigger]

My wife and I went riding today and I talked to a guy that had a brand new Honda 700 somthing. That thing they just came out with that has the indipendent rear. It was neat looking and all but he paid a bunch for that thing. A lot more than I have in my R. I hand built my R from the frame up and I think it is really cool. I have somewhere around two grand in it and it is just fun to ride and ride somthing that not everyone else has.

If he were to have a tree take him out, man it would cost to get that thing going again. And if he blew that motor for what ever reason, $$$$$$. I think I will keep my R for a while. I still have some tunning to do but that is the fun part to me.