Frothy oil

[smelly$cat]

Just curious here.

I changed the oil in my 440 last night and noticed something that I've noticed before, but, failed to sanity check it with the crew here.

I notice that after I run my engine for a few moment and shut it down, when I go to check the oil, the oil on the dip stick is laced with thousands of little bubbles. I would call it "frothy". :)

Oil is "Motul 15-40 Synthetic blend".

Am I the only one that has this or is this normal?

Thanks!

[katch26]

how did the oil coming out look? I changed mine the other day and it came out looking/ smelling fine and had the "usual" used oil consistency but when I filled it back up and checked my dipstick had the bubbles like you are describing. Could it have anything to do with the weather? Ive seen on car forums that changes in the weather (ie cold snaps) will cause a frothy appearance on the oil cap or very top of the dip stick.

[smelly$cat]

The drained oil looked pretty normal to me. Dark. Some slight silvery residue.

I seem to have the froth pretty consistently.

It's frothy from the high mark to the low mark on the dip stick when I pull it out.

I have an aftermarket oil tank (+1 qt)

[bigbad400]

i wouldnt worry about it, shake a quart of oil then open it. it will have all kinds of bubbles, you run your machine for 2 min you prolly shook it just as much as in 10 min standing there shaking it. its gonna have bubbles, mine does. the top of the oil res. is the return line, dump hot oil in a jug of hot oil and there again you will have bubbles, its unstopable and its not gonna hurt anything.

[smelly$cat]

"its gonna have bubbles, mine does."

That's what I was looking for.

Thanks man.

[Bill Martin]

Mine dose to but I'm not sure about the synthetic blend.
My builder swears by the Valvoline 10w-40.
I've been told that the synthetic oil will cause the clutch to slip.
Two years on my build and still going strong.

[smelly$cat]

I've been using this same syn blend for the past 4 years on this bike/clutch with no slippage. It's kosher!

[Bill Martin]

Mine seems to do it more after a fresh oil change. If I ride it for a while it's not as bad.
If that oil works for you that’s great but I'm going to be picky here and say that after four years you are just now noticing the foamy oil?
If this is new to your situation then I'd keep an eye on it.

Take care

[smelly$cat]

That's a fair comment. I've noticed it for the last couple oil changes. Might have been there for the others, but just didn't notice it.

I don't get to ride this particular EX that much (built for dunes), so, I've only changed the oil in it ~4 times I'm guessing.

I'm planning on changing the oil in my other EX this week. I'll see if it does the same thing. I'm guessing yes.

[Bill Martin]

Ok if that’s all you ride it then I can see that. And you did say you had notest it before. I think it's normal but remember it's pulling from the bottom and the bubbles are on top.

[b.lee]

I just bought a 416 and it was exactly like that, plus it was over filled.

I asked him what he put in it, he said some kind of synthetic 15w-40 $10 a quart stuff.

I got it home, drained it and put in some 10w40 valvoline. That was the same time I noticed the stripped out oil filter cover bolt. :huh

Anyways, there was no more '1000 bubbles' on the dipstick after the oil change.

[smelly$cat]

Yeah, the Motul is like 8.99 a qt from Rocky mountain atv. That's what the previous owner was running, so, I just continued the tradition.

Wonder if it's a byproduct of the syn blend... vs regular dino oil.

So, here comes a totally 101 question, but, just want to be sure.

When you guys check your oil, I know you just stick the dip stick in the hole and don't screw it in, but, are you suppose to run the engine for a couple min to get it up to temp first? Or, should you be able to get an accurate level reading when the engine is cold?

[wykyd450R]

Start the engine, and let it idle 3-4 minutes or so. Shut it off, and wait 3-4 minutes, and check.

[smelly$cat]

I thought that's what I had heard.

Thanks man




Originally posted by wykyd450R
Start the engine, and let it idle 3-4 minutes or so. Shut it off, and wait 3-4 minutes, and check.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by wykyd450R
Start the engine, and let it idle 3-4 minutes or so. Shut it off, and wait 3-4 minutes, and check.

I've never heard of waiting 3-4 minutes after you shut it off. I just wait about 20 seconds or so and then check it. Seems like waiting too long would yield a lower oil level than normal.

[smelly$cat]

I was kind of hoping someone might have a owners manual and be able to quote that. Bought both of my EX's 2nd hand, so, no love for me....

[katch26]

it does say run the motor then stop it wait a few minutes than check it

Place the vehicle on level ground. Start the engine and let it idle for a 5 minutes. If the air temperature is below 10°C (50"FL let the engine idle for an additional 5 minutes (a total of 10 minutes). Stop the engine. After a few minutes , remove the oil filler capldipstick from the oil tank and wipe it clean. Check the oil level by inserting the oil filler/dipstick into the oil filler hole without screwing it in. The engine contains a sufficient amount of oil if the oil level is between the upper and lower level marks on the dipstick. If the oil level is near or below the lower level mark, and the recommended engine oil up to the upper level mark. RECOMMENDED ENGINE OIL Honda GN4 or HP4 4-stroke oil or equivalent motor oil API service classification SF or SG Viscosity: SAE 1OW-40 or 2OW-50

[b.lee]

You should check it when its warm, but if your doing an oil change, check it before you start it anyways.

I swapped out from syn to dino because the clutch was slipping pretty bad, ive heard cetain syn oils and clutches don't get along... I've always ran dino oils, always will.

Didn't help my clutch problem too much, but when the new clutch goes in I wont have to worry about stuff in the synthetic oil waxing up my clutch discs

[smelly$cat]

Sounds pretty authoritative to me. Thanks!




Originally posted by katch26
it does say run the motor then stop it wait a few minutes than check it

Place the vehicle on level ground. Start the engine and let it idle for a 5 minutes. If the air temperature is below 10°C (50"FL let the engine idle for an additional 5 minutes (a total of 10 minutes). Stop the engine. After a few minutes , remove the oil filler capldipstick from the oil tank and wipe it clean. Check the oil level by inserting the oil filler/dipstick into the oil filler hole without screwing it in. The engine contains a sufficient amount of oil if the oil level is between the upper and lower level marks on the dipstick. If the oil level is near or below the lower level mark, and the recommended engine oil up to the upper level mark. RECOMMENDED ENGINE OIL Honda GN4 or HP4 4-stroke oil or equivalent motor oil API service classification SF or SG Viscosity: SAE 1OW-40 or 2OW-50

[katch26]

any oil you use just cant have friction modifiers.....generally it will say safe for wet clutch applications on the bottle. Rotella syn is a nice syn oil that works with wet clutches and it pretty inexpensive

[smelly$cat]

The Motul Syn-Blend I've been running says it's kosher with wet clutches. So far so good. :)


Originally posted by katch26
any oil you use just cant have friction modifiers.....generally it will say safe for wet clutch applications on the bottle. Rotella syn is a nice syn oil that works with wet clutches and it pretty inexpensive

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by katch26
it does say run the motor then stop it wait a few minutes than check it

Place the vehicle on level ground. Start the engine and let it idle for a 5 minutes. If the air temperature is below 10°C (50"FL let the engine idle for an additional 5 minutes (a total of 10 minutes). Stop the engine. After a few minutes , remove the oil filler capldipstick from the oil tank and wipe it clean. Check the oil level by inserting the oil filler/dipstick into the oil filler hole without screwing it in. The engine contains a sufficient amount of oil if the oil level is between the upper and lower level marks on the dipstick. If the oil level is near or below the lower level mark, and the recommended engine oil up to the upper level mark. RECOMMENDED ENGINE OIL Honda GN4 or HP4 4-stroke oil or equivalent motor oil API service classification SF or SG Viscosity: SAE 1OW-40 or 2OW-50

Thanks for posting that! Guess I just glossed over that part all these years....woops :chinese: I still have always wondered how long it takes for the oil to drain back into the motor after you shut if off.

[Bill Martin]

That’s easy check the oil cold and then check it hot and see if it is different.
Mine seems to stay the same, if your running the stock oil tank then you need to keep a close eye on it but if you have the +1 quart oil tank then you have more volume and it’s less critical.

[Miami_Vice454]

mine does the same thing after running for 5 min or so, i use the valvoline 10w-40 for the motorcycle/atvs. dont know if its synthetic or dino it doesn't say but i always use that and i never have clutch slippage

[b.lee]

Originally posted by Miami_Vice454
mine does the same thing after running for 5 min or so, i use the valvoline 10w-40 for the motorcycle/atvs. dont know if its synthetic or dino it doesn't say but i always use that and i never have clutch slippage

If it doesn't say synthetic on the front of the bottle, it is dino oil

[Miami_Vice454]

ok then it is dino for sure. i was actually going to start a thread just like this then i saw this lol. makes me feel alot better that im not the only one whos bike does that.

[brianengy]

Best write I've ever found out about oil.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

He really has good things to say about Shell Rotella T Synthetic.

[MtnEX]

The technical terms for this are...

1- air entrainment

2- cavitation


Neither one are good... and causes are many.

Make sure you are NOT running lean on any circuit and overheating.

Make sure your dipstick is sealing up well.

The cheapest thing to try is different oil, as it is OFTEN the oil itself.

To prevent air entrainment, motor oil has to contain "anti-foam" agents.

Another thing to do is check your crankcase ventilation.

Another is to do a compression test.

It would also be a real good idea to remove the hose from the oil tank and check the screen. I don't remember if the EX has other oil screens or not...


That will get you through the suspects of...

The dipstick
The oil
The crankcase ventilation
The compression
Any supply restrictions

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Past that, you are getting more into the cavitation side of things.... which starts with the supply.

If air is not coming into the tank, and it's not the oil, crankcase venting, or compression.... then you have to start at the supply line from the tank to the engine.

Check any screens, check oil line, then check around all the mating surfaces of the engine/cases.

Then it's time to go inside. Check the oil passages... and the most likely culprit... the oil pump.