Upper a-arms on 09 450 x MX

[craigmacphee]

Just wondering if any of you with the 09 450 x MX have had problems with your upper a-arms? Today while I was at the shop, they were checking out my front breaks while it was on the stand and they noticed my upper a-arms had a LOT of play forward to back. Where it was really noticeable was when they would spin my front wheel, then slam on the front break. The wheel and everything would shift forward 1/8-1/4 " or so.

They did not know a fix for it and their answer to me was that it was a crappy design by BRP and until they fixed their design, the problem would always be there.

I decided that was not the answer I wanted to hear, bit my tongue, and did some digging. I pulled up the parts finder and I see there is an inner bushing, seal, needle bearing, another seal, and another inner bushing that go inside the a-arm mounting housing. To me, and easy fix would be to buy these, replace them, and be on my way.

My questios are this:
1) Has anyone had these wear out on them in 4 months of riding?
2) Is their an upgrade kit or "better" fix for this than the factory original?
3) Are the parts I listed in fact what I need to fix it?
4) There is not a greese zerk to keep this lubed. Does anyone know how I can avoid having this happen again or prolong it as long as I can?

Thanks for any and all help in advance. Craig

[blaster99]

try pivot works bearings. They might have a kit for the ds.

[TNT]

I'll have to agree w/your dealer it is a crappy design. The frame has probably bent or moved forward or rear of bearing/retainer leaving a gap. Is it on both sides? You may talk to BCS they have some way to strenghten the clevis (frame attach). I cant imagine the steel components wore that fast. Thats my best guess w/o seeing it anyway, look at the frame knock in back to close the gap hope for the best or make a 911 call to BCS. :D

[Aussie_YFZ450]

the bushings/collars rub against the arm and wear out. thats what gives you the movement.

replace the bushings and the problem is fixed, or you can machine the bushings a little(~.5mm) shorter a few times before replacing them.

as usual, muddy or sandy conditions will wear them out faster.

[craigmacphee]

It is more on the left side than the right side. I can't see anything that is bent. It still tracks and looks straight.

Aussie....when you say "they wear out", are you referring to the busings and bearings or the a-arm holes?

I am a predominant front brake "braker" and would say I use the fronts 95% of the time. I am wondering if this contributed to their pre-mature wear?

[TNT]

Craig send me a link to the parts beak down something sounds very weird!!!! That fast! :D

[Aussie_YFZ450]

The parts that wear are the inner bushings. They wear where they make contact with the arms.
706200888
706200889

No. 13 & 14 on the EPC (front suspension page)

the reason they wear out so fast is because their isnt a thrust washer system to take the front to rear loads under brakes.

The bikes I've seen so far dont have a pattern for one side wearing more than the other. Its just a coincidence if one is wearing more than the other.
E.G your turning one way more than the other...

[craigmacphee]

I'd say you COMPLETELY hit the nail on the head Aussie. That is exactly what it looks like happened.

Are you sure I will not need #15 and #16 (seal and needle bearing)? I just don't want to make an order, then not get everything I need. You better believe I will be ordering (2) sets of everything I need. :)

Were you able to see what he and I are talking about TNT?

I spent the day calling Warnert to order some parts but they must have had their phone turned to the answering maching. All I got was their message. They've been great to me so far...way better than my dealer, so I will try again on Monday to contact them. Maybe they went to the races... :)

[Racers Dad 37]

After you replace all the bearing, seal and bushing get a set of ATV FOUR PLAY upper a-arms mount they support both side of the a-arms. Check they out at atvfourplay.com under Can AM.

[TNT]

Craig, sorry for the delayed response I'm in TX @ the North Vs South Race. Soon as I get home Monday I'll look close @ this stock assy, ATV 4 play, BCS, and see what we need to do. This upper arm has a couple issues biggest one is frame cracking. The design is no good. We may be able to keep both the frame and bearing's in tack with the right combination of parts. I would not go back to stock without a remedy.

Big pro race here to tommorrow. Cody Miller, T. Brown, Chase Snapp, J. Hale, and a few others from down south I don't know. S/b interesting! We're on a YAM since we found our oil spray nozzle when we drained our oil day before the race. That was after we found out head was off from the factory, not flat!

Well they all have problems. Suk's, YAMr, there all down here I heard an ear full all day.

YFZr upper arm has a caster problem only new arms can fix, Suk's 3rd gear blows, etc......

[craigmacphee]

Man, that's a bummer deal. I wish you and your son the best of luck. It never fails....just get something dialed in then all goes to hell. Believe me, I can feel your pain.

I was looking at that aftermarket design and I may buy one to knock off on my buddies CNC machine. Looks like a lot of $ for a piece of aluminum.

Chat when you get back. Craig

[Aussie_YFZ450]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
I'd say you COMPLETELY hit the nail on the head Aussie. That is exactly what it looks like happened.

Are you sure I will not need #15 and #16 (seal and needle bearing)? I just don't want to make an order, then not get everything I need. You better believe I will be ordering (2) sets of everything I need. :)

Were you able to see what he and I are talking about TNT?

I spent the day calling Warnert to order some parts but they must have had their phone turned to the answering maching. All I got was their message. They've been great to me so far...way better than my dealer, so I will try again on Monday to contact them. Maybe they went to the races... :)

if you only have the forward-rear movement and no side to side movement then there is every chance that the seals and bearing are still fine. you could change them if you wanted to but its more $$$ at the end of the day.

[TNT]

THE DESIGN ON THE UPPER ARM IS CAUSING FRAME AND PREMATURE BEARING WEAR. SEE PICS BELOW.

STOCK DESIGN: THE FIRST PICS SHOWS THE LOAD PATH COMING IN FROM THE ARMS TO A FRAME ATTACH BOLT THAT USE TO BE AN AIRCRAFT HI-LOCK IN 08. PROBLEM HERE THE HOLE IS TOO LARGE, THE FRAME IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE THE SIDE-TO-SIDE LOAD, THE OLD HI-LOCK WAS ACTUALLY BETTER AT KEEPING THIS FROM HAPPENING BUT STILL NOT ENOUGH AND THE TRANSER PLATES ARE INADEQUATE.

THERE ARE TRANSVERSE PLATES THAT TRANSFER THE LOAD FROM ARM-TO-ARM, SIDE-TO-SIDE. SEE PIC. THEY AID IN KEEPING LOAD AWAY FROM THE BEARING’S IN BENDING AND THE FRAME BUT NOT ENOUGH! SO THAT’S THE PROBLEM SOME RIDERS ARE SEEING FRAME CRACKS AND BEARING WORN PREMATURLY DUE TO THE HIGH BENDING MOMENT AT THE ARM ATTACH AND FRAME.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Slide2-3.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/UPPERDSARM.gif

IF YOU TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS BEARING’S AND BUSHINGS THE DESIGN INTENT OF THE TRANVERSE PLATES AND RETAINERS IS TO KEEP THRUST OR BREAKING LOAD AWAY FROM THE BUSHING’S AND NEEDLE BEARING’S, BUT THIS HIGH BENDING MOMENT DUE TO A BAD FRAME DESIGN IS CAUSING PROBLEMS ON THE BEARING'S TOO THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS GOING ON HERE. ONCE THE BEARING ASSEMBLY STARTS TO WEAR THE FORWARD/ REAR/IN/OUT MOVEMENT OF THE ARM WILL MAKE AN ALREADY BAD DESIGN WORSE AND CAUSE FRAME CRACKS. REPLACING THE FRAME COMPONENT AND/OR BEARING ASSEMBLY ALONE WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM IT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN AGAIN.

THE ATV-4 PLAY FITTING DOES A GOOD JOB AT FIXING ALL THIS BY TAKING THE LOAD A REDISTRIBUTING IT AWAY FROM THE FRAME AND BEARING’S/BUSHING ASSEMBLY. IT LOOKS GOOD TO ME. SEE PIC.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Slide1-6.jpg

BCS STILL HAS NO PICS ON THEIR WEBSITE OF THERE FRAME REINFORCEMENTS SO NOT ABLE TO COMMENT.

CRAIG THERE YA GO....:D

[craigmacphee]

Alright, now we are getting somewhere further than I ever figured. So, are you saying Aussie's fix will be a short term fix, but the long term fix "could" be the kit from BCS?

I am intending to order parts tomorrow. Any help of what exactly I may need will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Craig

[TNT]

Originally posted by Racers Dad 37
After you replace all the bearing, seal and bushing get a set of ATV FOUR PLAY upper a-arms mount they support both side of the a-arms. Check they out at atvfourplay.com under Can AM.


Originally posted by craigmacphee
Alright, now we are getting somewhere further than I ever figured. So, are you saying Aussie's fix will be a short term fix, but the long term fix "could" be the kit from BCS?

I am intending to order parts tomorrow. Any help of what exactly I may need will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Craig

Craig, I'm saying Racers Dad 37 was spot on, replace the stock bearing, seals, needles, all components and to keep it from happening again put the ATV 4 play arm mounts on. Thats what I will doing. If you don't you'll be replacing frame and bushing assy's again.

PS: I don't know what BCS is doing for upper frame mounts they have no pics on thier website.

Aussie there is a thrust system it's broke no good, it's just different than say the YAM "thrust covers" for example.

BTW: These frames are cracking I talked to another guy over the weekend cracked one, A- B class rider's.

[Aussie_YFZ450]

Good post TNT.

Is there a part # on the ATV Fourplay bracket anywhere? so I can get the ATV Fourplay dealer to follow it up for us?

I agree that replacing the worn parts is only a short term band aid fix to the problem, but a simple one at that. The original collars/sleeves can be shortened a few times before replacement on the lathe for no $$$ and total time will be less than one hour for ride in-ride out of the workshop.

If there was a thrust washer system in place, not unlike the the Yamaha, the problem would be less severe.

On the frames, I've seen several crack down this way too. Even though it looks bad, the frame spars are available as replacements and are affordable.

[Racers Dad 37]

So it clear the Fourplay kit has 2 supports there is also a rear support that goes in front of the rear a-arm mount to support the front of the rear a-arm I think this one add even more support because there is not a thing there to support that end even with adding of the stamped steel support that come with the Canam stage 1 racer kit.
So you get in the Fourplay kit
front support
rear support
4 longer a-arm mounting bolts stainless steel
4 lower support mounting bolts stainless steel
and all the nuts and washer for both
so you know when your looking at the price it not just a picec of Alum.
We order them right from Fourplay and get them in 3 days

The BCS kit looks very nice also and it mount with a add bolts at top of support. This kit was not out at the time we were building so you know we did not pick one over the other

[TNT]

Aussie when we refer to ‘thrust’ it’s just and industry term. What we are really referring to is the tension (pulling) compression (pushing) axial load carrying capability of high carbon steel or stainless. Along the arm axis (fwd/rear) in this application it’s very strong at taking out load along the length of the bushing ,and the way the bushing is seated in the arm takes out fwd/rear axial loads. Like the YFZ “thrust covers” the DS bushing and bearing are housed and protected by retainers.

When there is a lot of twist, torque, flex, or bending or transverse/side load at the arm axis, now we have a different load case not intended or designed to. As the walls or wear surface of the bushing’s/bearing begin to wear the interface radically to the arm gaps and wear occurs over the entire bushing and needle. I like to refer to this radial load as a “hoop load” . not a “thrust” load. The stock transverse plates in the assembly are not doing their job, the ATV four play machined fitting does a great job, and yes Racers Dad there is a forward plate not shown in their photo I tried to point out in my photo.

I would not grind anything, replace all the stock components in both arms, and install the 4-Play fittings and hardware. I’m betting we will not see anymore premature wearing of the bushing, needle, or frame cracking. Sounds like Racers Dad has already done so and would let us know if I am wrong, but Aussie if you’re grind is working for ya buddy nobody can argue with that everyone rides these quads differently.

Terry

[TNT]

If anyone has a PIC of the BCS installation please post it I'd like to see it.

I just seen the ATV-4-Play for the first time yesterday and must say I am impressed! These guy's either got lucky or knew what they are doing, I assume the latter. :D

Looks like a good installation to keep frame and bushing wear down, yeah you can carry xtra BRP parts but it could cost ya a race or more importantly an injury.

[Aussie_YFZ450]

No grinding Terry, just removing less than 0.5mm of the end face of the collar on the lathe.

It wasn't my preferred method, but when the parts are backordered at a wait of 3-6weeks with BRP down here, something had to be done to keep the bikes on the track.

We have a BCS setup on the way, hopefully it reduces the frame breakages, and doesn't cause an issue elsewhere.

[Dickie]

Yesterday at a local race i discovered i have this exact same issue. However, i know more on how to ride than understanding the more complex maintenance issues and i get a little confused when reading this thread. can someone give a very simple list of parts i need to completely fix this issue, i see the ATV fourplay re-inforcement plate, this looks like a good idea.

Cheers

[TNT]

Originally posted by Dickie
Yesterday at a local race i discovered i have this exact same issue. However, i know more on how to ride than understanding the more complex maintenance issues and i get a little confused when reading this thread. can someone give a very simple list of parts i need to completely fix this issue, i see the ATV fourplay re-inforcement plate, this looks like a good idea.

Cheers

Lets see theres two bearings per side and 1 needle bearing plus the atv 4 play assemble.

So,

4 bearing's
2 needles
I ATV 4 play

If you have any play in your arms either side replace BOTH sides. I recommend this fix if you have worn bearing or experience frame cracks.

[TNT]

Here look @ the diagram above....

#8 (2)
#10(2)
#12(2
#14(2)
#15(4)
#16(2)
ATV 4-play

Just print the diagram out and take it to the dealer. 31 and 33 ATV four play will provide but double check with them. If you need the names of all the parts I'll look it up for you tomorrow.

[TNT]

This sucks hearing about more and more of these problems now I guuna have to call and get this. If one arm bearing assy is worn and the other is not then if your sure it's good no play you can save some $ and leave it. If ATV 4 play does not replace 31 and 33 I put them in new too. Reason I am saying this is to make sure everything is tight all these parts work together. Me I won't take the chance and will replace everything I listed.

Hope that helps! .....:D

[Dickie]

Cheers mate. I will look into this and see if i can get it fixed.

[craigmacphee]

TNT...did you end up making these upgrades? I have been out of commission due to a bad crash and surgery but am now getting ready to make this sumina***** go faster and am going to fix the things I broke. I also gotta fix this a-arm issue one way or the other. Thanks, Craig

[TNT]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
TNT...did you end up making these upgrades? I have been out of commission due to a bad crash and surgery but am now getting ready to make this sumina***** go faster and am going to fix the things I broke. I also gotta fix this a-arm issue one way or the other. Thanks, Craig

Not yet but will we just broke an axle so dealing wit it but I will more than likely get w/BCS soon on the frame.