power commander 3

[andiboy123]

where is the place that i can get the lower price on a power commander?
on ebay is $349

[BCS Performance]

Give us a call, We can take good care of you! 413-736-2201

[andiboy123]

found some places to call
http://www.tobefast.com/dynojet-power-com-can-am-ds450-pr-1728289.html
http://www.morepoweracing.com/powercommander/Power-Commander/p-1-40684

but i will gave you a call !!!! im intrested on a case saver you sell

[craigmacphee]

Do they make a PCIII for the 09's?

[TNT]

Yes! 08/09 same. I got one I'll sell for $150 + shipping OBO, it's brand new used about 10 times we recently upgraded to PC5.

Send me a PM if interested.

[joeyds450x]

if the pc3 works on the 08\09 i dnt get why the pc5 wont work on the 08, only the 09 and newer... this is according to their website..

[TNT]

Every time I call that company they don't have a clue!! Guy tells me they made PC5 for the 09, PC3 for the 08 and is not sure 08 PC3 will work on 09 or visa versa they did no testing. Another company makes these for them thats why they have no idea. Well I know more about thier own products than they do...I got a PC3 and it works on 09 the ECU is the same. You'd think they know if PC 5 works on 08 but noooooo! :rolleyes: It should.

[TNT]

We're running the PC5 for the first time this weekends race after having run PC3, should be able to give some feed back soon.

[X400EX]

Originally posted by TNT
Every time I call that company they don't have a clue!! Guy tells me they made PC5 for the 09, PC3 for the 08 and is not sure 08 PC3 will work on 09 or visa versa they did no testing. Another company makes these for them thats why they have no idea. Well I know more about thier own products than they do...I got a PC3 and it works on 09 the ECU is the same. You'd think they know if PC 5 works on 08 but noooooo! :rolleyes: It should.

So, they won't know if that thing with autotune will work here in canada's winter (-30 degrees celcius). :ermm:

[craigmacphee]

so what would the difference be between the pc3 and pc5 for my 09?

[TNT]

From what I understand PC 5 since it has an O2 sensor feed back it can "auto-tune" the quad so if it's weak in 3rd coming out of corner say it automatically tunes to different loads on the track. PC3 you would tune to load on the dyno then it's set. PC5 has more increments to tune throttle postion to, like 5% vs 10 % of throttle so the tune is more accurate. I think all we are talking about is much better throttle response no gains in HP but not sure yet.

Since the PC 3 or 5 read the base MAP in the ECU then tune to it if it is tuned correct for the temp/etc you are in the PC5 or PC3 will work in cold temps X400EX.

I'll know more after dyno tomorrow and race PC5 this weekend if all this theory is correct. :D

[mebcop]

well, if it works anything like a cars open/close loop system....

The beauty of the ecu using an oxygen sensor is that it will "update" your tune every time you ride...

Say you were to get a tune on the dyno w/the pc3 and it's at a 2000' elevation on a 90 Degree day, then a couple months later you're riding at 800' elevation on a 60 Degree day, your tune WILL be off, especially if your quad is modified at all to where the adjustments in the stock ecu don't handle the changes correctly with how your quad ACTUALLY handles those changes....

Wow, this is hard to put into words...

The whole reason for getting a dyno tune is to get a powerful, and even more importantly SAFE tune.... Well, with the O2 sensor doing it's job, then your ecu can MAINTAIN that safe tune no matter what you throw at it....

I saw before how people were welding O2 bungs on their headpipes and actually jetting their quads like that.... I LOVED the idea, just never did it with my predator...

[andiboy123]

TNT i send you a pm as soon you reply it to me i will make the payment!!!!

[witech]

The power commander doesnt actually look at the factory ecu . It just intercepts the pulse with signal and changes it according to its own map that you build yourself and the TPS signal. I am sure the DS has a sensor for elevation so if the factory ecu adapts to elevation then the power commander will still be adapting that signal as well. Its the same with coolant temp.
For the most part power commanders are a universal box with different wires to them depending on how many injectors and type of plugs they use.
I also dont know if the ds uses the crimp on tps connector but if it does do yourself a favor and solder /seal the wires on to avoid a guaranteed breakdown . Those things are notorious for comming loose and loosing signal .

[TNT]

Originally posted by witech
The power commander doesnt actually look at the factory ecu . It just intercepts the pulse with signal and changes it according to its own map that you build yourself and the TPS signal. I am sure the DS has a sensor for elevation so if the factory ecu adapts to elevation then the power commander will still be adapting that signal as well. Its the same with coolant temp.
For the most part power commanders are a universal box with different wires to them depending on how many injectors and type of plugs they use.
I also dont know if the ds uses the crimp on tps connector but if it does do yourself a favor and solder /seal the wires on to avoid a guaranteed breakdown . Those things are notorious for comming loose and loosing signal .

Well if your right and PC does not look at the ECU once again PC company knows NOTHING about there products thats where I got the info straight from the horses mouth. :D

I would think it does otherwise no need for the ECU. DS has an Ambient Air and Pressure Temp sensor in the air box that reads ambient air temp, barometric pressure, combined w/MAP pressure/temp differentials & coolant temp can see a ecu look up table the PC does not have stored on it's micro chip for fuel delivery. Maybe I should go work at PC lol! :D

Aniboy sent you a PM.

[mebcop]

Originally posted by witech
The power commander doesnt actually look at the factory ecu . It just intercepts the pulse with signal and changes it according to its own map that you build yourself and the TPS signal. I am sure the DS has a sensor for elevation so if the factory ecu adapts to elevation then the power commander will still be adapting that signal as well. Its the same with coolant temp.
For the most part power commanders are a universal box with different wires to them depending on how many injectors and type of plugs they use.
I also dont know if the ds uses the crimp on tps connector but if it does do yourself a favor and solder /seal the wires on to avoid a guaranteed breakdown . Those things are notorious for comming loose and loosing signal .

So the Power Commander is simply an AFC? So all it will do is adjust your map sensor voltage ur ecu sees to adjust how much fuel your ecu calls for, right..... That's exactly how a SAFC works on a car. It taps in and uses TPS, MAP, etc... readings and uses your + or - entries to adjust the map voltage ur ecu receives, which then adjusts how much fuel your ecu calls for, giving you a richer or leaner mixture....

If that's the case, then the 08 and 09's should all work the same, right????? They use the same TPS, MAP, etc... sensors, so as long as all the clips/harnesses are the same, it SHOULD work exactly the same.....


BTW: What exactly does the power commander tap in to (sensor signal wise) to use to make it's changes? Is it the TPS and the MAP? I know on my SRT4, it is supposed to use the signal from the TPS, but u actually hook it to the MAP senser to combat lean mixtures in part throttle boost scenarios.... Well, I think I just answered my own question.. haha Since it's not a boosted quad I am assuming it simply uses rpms and tps as it's only USED inputs.

[witech]

Yep the PC is whats called a piggyback system. It cannot look at or communicate with the ecu .Just modd the signal from it. The stand alone fully tunable efi systems are still well over a $1000 so until the price on those come down the Dobeck and power commanders will the systems of chioce for a while.

[mebcop]

Originally posted by witech
Yep the PC is whats called a piggyback system. It cannot look at or communicate with the ecu .Just modd the signal from it. The stand alone fully tunable efi systems are still well over a $1000 so until the price on those come down the Dobeck and power commanders will the systems of chioce for a while.

Does the DS have the same issues though using a Bandaid (piggyback).... When you pull/add MAP voltage to adjust the AFR's, doesn't it screw with the timing too???

I know with my SRT, when you start pulling fuel with the SAFC to lean the mixture out to about 11.5:1, it adds timing, because your ecu actually THINKS it's getting less throttle input/Manifold Pressure.... An 11.5:1 mixture is perfectly safe on a boosted vehicle, but the added timing can be DEVASTATING...


Also, did you mean to say "just modd the signal TO it", not from it?

[witech]

That would be from it. In plugs in line with the fuel injectors which is where it gets its power,tach,and pulse width signals from .
Automotive tuners usually take over function of the ecu itself because if you have an O2 sensor a piggyback system would end up fighting the system trying to change the afr. With the relativley simple system the quads use the ecu gets no feedback on how the engine is running.

[mebcop]

Originally posted by witech
That would be from it. In plugs in line with the fuel injectors which is where it gets its power,tach,and pulse width signals from .
Automotive tuners usually take over function of the ecu itself because if you have an O2 sensor a piggyback system would end up fighting the system trying to change the afr. With the relativley simple system the quads use the ecu gets no feedback on how the engine is running.

Very interesting... thanx for the knowledge!!! Makes perfect sense though!

It seems to work in a car, because for WOT, it doesnt use the O2 sensor for it's fuel calculation anyways, it was strictly fuel map driven...., and for part throttle u just used the AFC to keep your long term fuel trims in check.... All you're doing is changing which "cell" of the fuel map to use by adjusting the MAP sensor input into the ECU....

[TNT]

Witech if all that say is true how exactly does the system make it's fuel calculation. Give me an example @ 10% TP. Thx.

[comander420]

John you just had to migrate over here from the cannondale forums didn't you?

Witech (wistech) is a very sharp individual, he is one of the few who keeps the Cannondale's alive and they were the first with all the EFI, air temp, pressure sensors etc. I am pretty sure he knows what he is talking about with about 7 years of atv efi experience with a more complex EFI system under his belt.

[witech]

I have just recently been working on a Renegade mud drag racers PC3 and have converted some harley and ducati units I get cheap off ebay. If you want give me a call I might have a few tips for you . Are guys doing standard tuning or hooking up to the tuning link for dynojet dynos.

As far as how the units work I start with whats called a zero map ,do a throttle calibration so they are in sync . Then do a couple of baseline runs . Tuning is fast and furious from there. The nice thing about the PC3 is just how fast you can build a map as its all up there on the screen . Give me a call at 1 715 551 1498 . I have some injector connectors you can have if you want them.

[shortdogg1980]

does anyone have a map for a 08 ds450 with pink wire cut, uni air filter, open air box, hmf slip on, pc3......just looking for a map more tuned to my mods....thanks.......