Which brand premix oil and why?

[thedeatons]

Hey guys... I am a Red Line guy, but I have read about a lot of other folks using Klotz, etc. Can you tell me why you use burn what you do?

I suppose any excuse could be a good one, it smells good, it burns better, it is cheaper, etc...

James

[Saul76]

I use Amsoil Interceptor. Best I can find locally.

[thedeatons]

Hmm... But what constitutes best? Amsoil's private marketing charts and MLM payment structure (pyramid-style sales structure), or the fact that it is showing a better burn on your piston?

Just curious, not trying to be argumentative. Everyone thinks their oil is best, I am wondering why...

James

[86 Quad R]

i use klotz r-50 or kl-100 @ 32:1 because the previous owner did so i followed suit and have been for 12 years now. when i purchased my R it was a frame up build and the guy had installed a new '85 crate engine with relatively 0 hours on it. 5 years later i felt it was time for a top end refresh. to my surprise there wasnt even a ring groove at the top of the cylinder and 12 years later i'm currently only on a second overbore and have only rebuilt the crank once only for a peace of mind :D

[thedeatons]

Whoa! This is good stuff. Great story.

Curious, how maany hours you have on the engine?

James

[Saul76]

When I say Amsoil is the 'best' I can find locally - I mean just that - it's the only 'performance' bran premix I can get locally .. everything else here locally is el cheapo 'gas station' premix.

I gotta say though - since using Amsoil I've never fouled a plug!

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Whoa! This is good stuff. Great story.

Curious, how maany hours you have on the engine?

James

awwww man i dont know deat.... it'd be hard for me to figure. the longest it's ever set still is this past year after busting the cases. otherwise its been riden every weekend. i'm gonna go out on a limb and guesstamate at no less than 200.

[thedeatons]

Good info...

James

[rockingkfarms]

Klotz Supertechniplate or R50 (depending on the bike) mixed with Klotz 113 in the two strokes. Turbo Blue in the four strokes with Amsoil oil.

[danhung11]

Cause it smells good, it's red in color and usually turns the mixed gas a blue or purple in color depending on what fuel you run, also it's never let me down at 32:1.

What do you currently run deats?

Dan

[thedeatons]

Red Line 2 stroke racing oil. I have seen engine temps pegging my gauge at 250 mutliple times before I figured my jetting out.... Never stuck a piston with it.

Man, it would be cool to see some different burn patterns or some type of science behind all the different brands....

James

[red88r]

I run Klotz R50 in everything. All my r's,boat motor, chain saw,ice auger, and weed wacker. 32:1 in my 250'rs-never had a problem.

[IcutMetl]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of opinions here, but I was/am very curious about the same thing and would really really like to see an independent test of the top 2 cycle oils and where each one excelled over the other. I think that would help a lot of us decide what was best for each of our situations.

In the past, I had a 1989 CR125; ran it with Maxima Racing Castor because I got a bunch with the bike, and then 927 after that. Ran the cheap stuff once, and certainly didn't run as clean. Of course, I really didn't know any better.

In the RMX250 I had, I believe I ran some leftover 927 and then Bel Ray MC1; again- not sure why, I think that's what the local shop had in a jug at the time. Fouled plugs all the time in this bike and the CR, but I fully attribute that to my lack of knowledge and poor carb tuning. Mixed both of those bikes at 32:1 and always used premium.

When I bought my 250R, the guy sweared by Golden Spectro- 1 bottle to 5gal of gas, which is about 52:1. Never seized it, but when I checked compression out of curiosity and tore into the top end, there was a fair amount of scuffing on the front of the piston and very little residual oil in the bottom end.

I did my research and read reviews/opinions and settled on Klotz Super Techniplate. I'm no racer, but I rev the piss out of my engine, and I gathered that castor oil has incredible film strength However; I ride it year round and didn't want it running thick or seperating from the fuel like 927. Super Techniplate is an 80% synthetic and 20% BeNol castor, so I figured it to be the perfect choice for me. Broke it in real well, tuned in the carb, and still have yet to foul a plug. Seems to run very clean with very minimal smoke at 40:1. I convinced my buddy to switch from 927 in his Banshee to S.Techniplate, and he swears that his 'shee runs smoother and revs a bit quicker; I'm not too sure about that, but whatever.

Plus...the most important part- it really does smell that good...

[1promodfan]

Is did run Klotz for a while. One problem that I had is it seemed to be a little "gummy".........and to be honest I wasn't crazy about the smell.

So then I tried Amsoil..........and I haven't looked back since. It seems to mix very easy, it turns the gas red, and it don't seem to be as "greasy". I did some research on both these oils and I just like Amsoil better. Now, I'm not saying Klotz is not good oil because its probably one of the best out there.

When I did my rebuild last winter, I just liked the way my cylinder walls looked. Just my 2cents..........

[Ruf Racing]

Two stroke oils could be the most opinionated subject.
Most people will stick with what they grew up with. It's kind of
like did your dad have a chevy or ford. Maybe that's what you
will drive. I personally like Klotz brand oils. No scientific reason
why, engine wear always looks very nice. And come on the smell?
It's the best! Oh by the way, my dad bought ford, but I like
chevy. So much for my theory. :cool:

[Swiper77]

My two experiences are Maxima 927 and BelRay MC1. The BelRay is the best friction fighter. The only dislikes about it are the smell, and fouled plugs. So I went to Maxima and like the smell never foul plugs and still haves a decent friction fighter.

[Rich250RRacer]

Back in my early days I tried just about every brand, but I've been using Bel-Ray MC-1 for more than 20 years now, and I can't see any reason to switch. If it's mixed at 50:1 like it's supposed to be mixed, you won't have any plug fouling issues, and no that's not too lean. I've never had an oil related motor issue in all these years.

[IcutMetl]

I agree...if your motor is tuned right, 50:1 shouldn't be an issue with the way today's oils protect vs oils of years ago. But then again; I'm not an oil expert either.

I was b'sing with a guy at a party lastnight about riding, and he was telling me about his Pro Circuit built KX250 and all the money he has into it...tells me how good it runs on the 116 octane and how he goes thru a top end a year because he mixes at 100:1 using Klotz R50. He said that it's cool with him because he mixes that lean for more power. I'm not sure I buy into that...the oil in the gas is ALL our top ends have for lubrication/protection. Oil makes stuff slippery and wear out slower; that I know is pretty well proven. While we might not have to mix at 20:1 anymore, I'm not going to jump on the 100:1 wagon any time soon either.

[LAEGER525]

Years back I used Maxima 927,Redline & even Yamalube. I never really liked 927 that much? I have used Yamalube in motors that are all stock or for the 1st tank of gas on top-end rebuilds & then I switch to a synthetic oil. I did use Redline for a few years & I think its a very good oil. My bikes ran great & rebuilds seem to last a long time. Now I only use Amsoil. Its been just over 10 years now only using Saber by Ams mixed 80:1 in every 2-stroke I have....even the weedeater. This oil burns clean & I never foul plugs. There have been no oil related motor issues,like a stuck piston or crank/rod bearings that have gone bad. I do have a few motors that have alot of hard hours on them & they still run great!

[312R1]

I use 927 at 32:1 and have been sense I got into R's which was around 1990. Reasons I use it are, first I have never had a oil failure of all the years of racing or riding..plus I love the way it smells mixed with c-12..;)

The way I see if it aight broke don't fix it.

[woodsracer144]

Well when i first had my blaster it was toasted so i rebuilt the motor and right from the start i was running Belray MC-1. i didnt really notic much out of it. i only ran it for a few tanks then i ran out of gas one day so i switched to AMS, i ran the racing dinominator, that would by far the best stuff i've ran, i really liked it because it made the gas red... so that way my mom wouldnt use my 110 in the weed whipper... she had some more blue stuff... thats the only way i could get her to stop using it! AH

but i've ran AMS's HP injector and the regular 2 stroke oil... the yellow bottle and i didnt really care for the injector...

once i got my first 250r i ran some maxima and thats becuase thats what he gave me with it but after that was goine i went back to the AMS...

i mixed the ams at 40-1, due to the fact that i didnt wanna be too light on the oil... but one time i was rushed and i ended up at about 60-1 and man was it a fast bike then... too bad i cant say the same now... i was pushing it hard up a long time then i got to a hill and then thats all she wrote... ...

[kookennay]

i use yamalube 2r a guy i know that has rode 250r's since they came out says that hat he uses and only that

[thedeatons]

I love all the response this is getting!

The majority of posters are using their brand because of these three reasons:

1) Someone else's recommendation
2) There being nothing else available
3) Because they had never had any problems so far

I would love to see evidence of one being better than the other. Surely someone has done it. There has to be a difference, burn patterns, plug patterns, maybe evven horsepower....

I hate looking at hp though, because hp can vary +/- 2hp for each run simply because of variance....

I may check the karting forums. Those guys are always displaying evidence.

James

[thedeatons]

Here are some tests that would be great to see using different oils, at different ratios in some 250R engines... Not that I care for any of the brands used in these tests, but the tests themselves are great.

http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm


This test is FANTASTIC! And it speaks to premix ratios... Be sure to read all the way to the end, the author (Gordon Jennings who is VERY thorough) includes the fact that synthetic oils should be run at their recommended ratios because of the way they were designed. This test used petroleum based oils, and is very useful to anyone using those...

http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf


These tests are also spectacular!!! Amsoil is included, as is Bel-Ray...

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm


If anyone has some time on their hands, and some new pistons this would make for a great story.... I will donate a couple bottles of oil.

James

[audioworks04]

Ran Belray MC-1 for along time, just because my dad always ran that before I got the R from him. Now I run ams oil dominator just because thats what I run in all my vintage jet skis (js550s). The ams oil is cheaper, atleast around here, than the Belray, and Ive never had any issues. Love the smell and its red unlike the ams interceptor which is "gold" hard to tell if it was mixed.

[Z15]

AMSOIL Interceptor, HP Injector and Dominator are very popular oils with snowmobilers in this area and in big demand during the winter. You will find it everywhere, even the motels are selling it.

[thedeatons]

Interesting point... My problem with that is that Amsoil uses an MLM (mulit-level marketing) structure to sell its products, so of course you find it everywhere, like Mary Kay or Primerica or Amway... A similar idea would be for me to say that General Mills cereal is everywhere, so it must be fantastic... Fact is there are other cereals out there...

I was really hoping for some facts, some testing.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
Aren't you guys curious whether the oil you believe is the best, really is the best?

James

[86 Quad R]

i think it would be nice to see a heads up test comparison between all of the oils that are out there that showed physical results on wear ect ect used in different temps and with different fuels. who knows, i would more than likely change brands but until i see some data i'll keep runnin' my usual. even tho its now as high as a cats back in price. :eek2:

[86Rrider]

Well, I don't have any real data to offer on this subject, but just some "food for thought" on the subject;

I personally have run Honda HP-2 in my R since I bought it, back in '95. I did this for 2 reasons: 1) it is what my local dealer recommended on my first visit to buys some parts for my new R, 2) my riding buddy, who MX raced R's (ATC's and TRX's) back in the hay-days ('84 ~ 92) ran this oil also.

I guess that the advise that my former racing friend gave me kind of stuck, as well as my dad did this also, but usually a manufacturer will go through a lot of testing before offering up a product that they recommend using in their main product. So, I've just kind of stuck with that theory, use Honda oil in my Honda, use Stihl oil in my Stihl chain saw and weed-wacker, use Suzuki oil in the LT-80.

And just like other's posts, I have not had any issues with wear or fouling.

Lastly, years ago my riding group did a very long ride in the upper penninsula of Michigan, 5 guys on 4-strokes and 2 of us on 2-strokes. We left our camp without an idea of how long/far we were going to ride, so both of us 2-stroke riders left without taking along any oil. So when we hit reserve and started looking for a gas station, we ended up buying a quart of Polaris 2-stroke oil and using that. Well, 5 miles later, my friend on his Banshee started fouling plugs and I was experiencing a huge loss of top-end power. When we made it back to camp, we both drained our tanks and refilled with our regular pre-mix and the ride the next day was much better! And yes, we did take oil with us that day!

[Z15]

The best oil is the one you buy...because that is your choice.

What is important to you may not be as important to others.

[thedeatons]

Hmm... I don't know that I agree with that. Too easy, too "everyone can get along". There are bad oils...

Premix oil has a function. Its function is to lubricate the engine first and foremost. It should do so in an unobtrusive manner, with minimal carbon buildup.

My quest with this thread is to eventually find out which premix oil performs its function the best.

If Klotz performs better than Red Line, then I will switch. If Bel Ray offers less buildup than Klotz, everyone should know about it.

I have no brand loyalty, and frankly no reason I am using Red Line, which is why I am looking for research. No way am I going to run something because someone's uncle said it was better at a party one night.... I am looking for proof. :)

James

[atv fan 28]

proof is going to be hard to find on here i think! but you will get alot of opinions! most of the people who post on here is riders not scientists. they do not have the funds or the resources to do such a test on oils! but thats just my opinion.

[thedeatons]

This is from my friend in Nor-Cal. He is into RC Air-Racing, at the top of the points in his class....

"There are several and by several I mean "a lot" of people in this hobby that use RC for comercial purposes. There are people that use them for reconnisance for both military and private use, there are people that use the for air sampling, there are people that use them for crop dusting. Then are are DOD and law enforcement people so the background information I get comes from quite a wide range of sources. A lot of these guys do run these motors at 100% throttle for hours on end, and they do their own tear downs and inspections. Here is what the general breakdown looks like. You can use just about any quality oil be it dino oil or synthetic and as long as you are doing it right (correct ratio and running the motor the way it is intended to be run) it's pretty tough to damage a motor based on oil choice. The feedback I get is that Redline while making a mess coming out of the tail pipe leaves the engine internals extremely clean and wear is extremely minimal to zero. ALL the other oils including Bel Ray, Pennzoil Air Cooled, Amsoil, etc etc while good oils do not run as clean. Amsoil claims to be able to run at a higher ratio (common for us is 100:1) and it will run fine at 100:1 but it develops crystalization over time. Pennzoil carbons extremely badly even at the recommended ratio of 36:1 so we use it as break in oil only ( I no longer use it though, I like Sthil oil for break in) Bel Ray gets OK reviews but nothing special. One that has been getting attention lately is Royal Purple, a friend of mine is running it and it seems to do fine, but he is not honest about things when he has problems so if he does have a problem with it he probably won't tell me about it. I've used Redline in all my plane motors except one and all except the one have been flawless. Soo, it's proven, keeps the motor clean inside, and wear is minimal so why use something else?"



Interesting insight....

James

[thedeatons]

Here are pics from yesterday. I run Red Line 2 stroke Racing Oil, at 32:1. This is after 40 hours of run time (I have an hour meter). I also run it on the rich side of things....

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/thedeatons/DSC01230Large.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/thedeatons/DSC01231Large.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/thedeatons/DSC01232Large.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/thedeatons/DSC01233Large.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/thedeatons/DSC01229Large.jpg

James

[All250R]

I want to say Amsoil is a little less goopy, but it could just be the photos. Your 86 exhaust port could use some porting work.

[thedeatons]

FYI I don't think I cleaned the top of the piston off when I rebuilt the engine 40 hours ago.... I definitely didn't touch the ports to clean them....

Yah, Neil said I could benefit from his touch. I just really like the way it runs right now, and don't have the money to spend on porting....

James

[kookennay]

ok i thinking about switching to amsoil or redline which is the best amsoil to use and best redline? i have to order my oil now cause my local powersports place just closed.

[thedeatons]

For Red Line just choose the 2 stroke racing oil. That is the most common to find. Use the dealer locator on their website to find someone locally. You will be surprised how easy Red Line is to find...

For Amsoil just choose from one of the thousands of MLM sites on the web.... (I hate MLMs)

James

[kookennay]

well which one of both would be better to use like i use yamalube 2r now, 2r being the type i guess you would say, i sure there is more than one type of each of redline and amsoil.

[2muchquad]

since i dont get my parts for free i use maxima 927 castor 9 times out of 10(shop runs out).i like how my topend looks upon disassembly.i use to argue "oil was oil" until i really started doing all of my own work,plus i love the smell of castor:D Benol works too