American Honda pulls out of ATV racing for 2010

[Pappy]

http://www.atvriders.com/atvnews/honda-2009-atv-racing-pulled-2010-joe-byrd.html

[Jersey450R]

On 9-11 of all days :(

Wonder what the Byrdman will be doing for 2010?

This is a big deal considering Honda started all this with the 250R. Not to say kawi and Suzuki didnt have involvement.

I guess this is evolution.

[dehner47]

:( its a sad day in the ATV racing world. our sport saw the samething happen a few decades ago. when the major teams stop supporting 3wheelers. racing went from full factories to a couple hundred pro and amateur doin it cause they loved to do it. lets hope this isn't the beginning of the end of ATV racing in america.:( :confused: :grr:

[Pappy]

I geuss we will see what companies want to see the sport continue

[insaneracin2003]

oh man, not good news on the quad racing front. After all the other companies coming out with race specific quads now.
What a shame. I just hope it doesn't last that long and no-one follows.

[hasbeenttduner]

This is not a big shock.They do not have a 2010 450R.If things get better and they release a 2011 they will probably offer some support to a few pros again.

[extremeblastr]

as far as byrd goes all my money is on orange;)

[quadrcr161]

im sure some people will still ride hondas, they just will look for other means of support. The honda worked for them before and they know what works and what dosent. hopfully the aftermarket can step in and give some support. Maybe this might be a good opening for support from companies outside the atv racing world.

[Ellingsoc26]

I will be shocked if there are any factories left there might be a support team or two but there just aint the money there anymore and with all their bike teams getting cut back so much it sure dont help us at all

[extremeblastr]

Originally posted by Ellingsoc26
I will be shocked if there are any factories left there might be a support team or two but there just aint the money there anymore and with all their bike teams getting cut back so much it sure dont help us at all

i don't see all the teams leaving, honda has always been the last one to offer support and the first one to back out. the other companies will keep at least one rider on their teams if they're paying attention. have you ever seen the excitement of a local rider when a factory rig pulls in to run one of their races? or how much the purchases of a local rider are influenced by who sponsors the guy who got his start there? the factories would be stupid to back all the way out now.

[Ellingsoc26]

I just dont see any around other than mabey can am ktm is gone they might not have any bike riders i heard two 450 riders at the most. Suzuki is gone from what i hear and they were almost gone last year but changed their minds. Who knows what yamaha will do they all rdy where using t browns rig as the factory one

[dehner47]

Originally posted by Ellingsoc26
I just dont see any around other than mabey can am ktm is gone they might not have any bike riders i heard two 450 riders at the most. Suzuki is gone from what i hear and they were almost gone last year but changed their minds. Who knows what yamaha will do they all rdy where using t browns rig as the factory one

and were did all this plethera of info come from??

[godzilla]

Originally posted by quadrcr161
hopfully the aftermarket can step in and give some support. Maybe this might be a good opening for support from companies outside the atv racing world.

Expect the aftermarket companies to follow suit. Alot of companies are scrounging for sales and its not by giving away product of paying huuge sums of money to riders in this economy that gonna make them survive...especially in the ATV market which does not get nearly the amount of exposure as other powersport indudtries.

Unfortunately many "pro Factory" riders are gonna have to come back down to earth.

[mxracer]

Originally posted by Pappy
I geuss we will see what companies want to see the sport continue

Now, you and a lot of people will understand the importance of company like BRP for the sport, maybe people will think twice before bashing a company who try hard to improve the sport.

[Ellingsoc26]

Originally posted by dehner47
and were did all this plethera of info come from??

Well the bike stuff anyone can read off racerx its not hard then to figure out the rest and it can always be worst too i see alot of aftermarket teams setting up and helping out more ppl like walsh lone star houser etc.. Things can always change too if things turn around they may always come back we have alot of time between now and then.

[dehner47]

Originally posted by Ellingsoc26
Well the bike stuff anyone can read off racerx its not hard then to figure out the rest and it can always be worst too i see alot of aftermarket teams setting up and helping out more ppl like walsh lone star houser etc.. Things can always change too if things turn around they may always come back we have alot of time between now and then.

thats funny. cause i have read that KTM is picking mike alessi back up for the australian superX series. and also gonna still be supporting max anstie with a ride in 2010. and what you think they gonna do with team muscle milk KTM? from what i heard, they are resigning with muscle milk and justin brayton is staying there. we will find out in a few weeks when all the deals are done i guess. so possibly, your info might be a tad off.

and it is hard to figure out the rest. cause major manufactures make sure they keep alot of the buisnss side of there racing outta the public eye til the deal is signed by both parties. yes things "leak" but still, most of the time they tell you just enough to keep your pants wet.

[vzmain61]

I haven't heard about Suzuki pulling the plug. I know Honda and their form of support is somewhat of a joke. They never brought rigs and mechanics to races. They gave away some bikes to the top pros and paid out some expenses. They didn't fund testing nor did they do anything in the R&D department. The economy has taken a dump, but with Honda leaving it's not going to cripple the Nationals. The three riders Byrd, Upperman and Goodman will have no problem getting the help they need to run in 2010. Even if they don't land factory rides they will race. Everyone has been doing it prior to the factory support. Back way before Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki launched race programs. I agree with the Can-Am bashing, why bash them about the products they make. Look at the support they have provided for our sport. They don't have a championship in AMA Pro MX yet but they have posted up some good numbers in 2009.

[patrickj75]

The bottom line is, racers will find a way to get to the track, factory support or not. I don't think our sport will live or die based on factory support. Yes, its been great to see factory riders etc. but there are alot more privateers than factory riders showing up to the track. Maybe some of these guys will have to scale back or use more of their own money to race. I'm sure thats what they did years ago. Does it really matter if they have a big rig to travel in? Things will be different next year thats for sure.

[vzmain61]

...and yes what patrickj75 said. Well put.

[quadrcr161]

Originally posted by godzilla
Expect the aftermarket companies to follow suit. Alot of companies are scrounging for sales and its not by giving away product of paying huuge sums of money to riders in this economy that gonna make them survive...especially in the ATV market which does not get nearly the amount of exposure as other powersport indudtries.

Unfortunately many "pro Factory" riders are gonna have to come back down to earth.

teams were there before the factories, it migth have been a little smaller, but they were there with the support of the aftermarket.



Originally posted by patrickj75
The bottom line is, racers will find a way to get to the track, factory support or not. I don't think our sport will live or die based on factory support. Yes, its been great to see factory riders etc. but there are alot more privateers than factory riders showing up to the track. Maybe some of these guys will have to scale back or use more of their own money to race. I'm sure thats what they did years ago. Does it really matter if they have a big rig to travel in? Things will be different next year thats for sure.

agreed,

[DEAL]

Originally posted by extremeblastr
as far as byrd goes all my money is on orange;)

I REALLY hope not.

[Quadevil]

Originally posted by DEAL
I REALLY hope not.


I hope yes :D

[xrxmxcx]

Has to be a lot of broken hearts from the Honda owners as this was the brand that gave this forum its roots.

[usp4u]

and yet there will still be throngs of people screaming "NO WING, NO PRAYER MAN!!!!!!" Sure, they build a fine product but the brainwashed red riders out there need to remember that even in good times Honda didn't see fit to put real support behind ATV riders.

[quad2xtreme]

Companies outside the sport won't be spending marketing dollars supporting the ATV scene...not enough fan base. IT is possible Joe or another rider could find an outside company to support him but it would be a charity case merely because they know him. Investing in the ATV MX scene doesn't make much sense. They can barely sell ATV t-shirts at the events. I am amazed how many riders I know who have never attended a National.

[madskrillz2]

Maybe it will end up being a result of this economy. Seeing they backed out on their road racing before the quads is sort of nice to know. Hopefully they'll be back when things half way straighten up.

[chrisrzz1012]

people need to realize that Honda never really had a factory team they just somewhat offered support ( a few bike during the year), thats all they did. They still make the best quads out there. I'm not surprised this happened will effect the average rider/ and or racer not really. I'll still be riding and racing my 400ex's like I always have. They will be back I hope they will. This hobby/ sport is way to big for them not too. As for all the brand bashing going on is needs to stop. Its not goods for the sport. I've had very bad luck with Yamaha ( owned a Blaster, Raptor 660r/700, and Banshee) and won't own anything form them. I've learned that all makes have some type of issue. Thats how things are.

[chrisrzz1012]

Joe Byrd was racing a 2005 450r so thats really no big deal on his sitution.

[usp4u]

Originally posted by chrisrzz1012
people need to realize that Honda never really had a factory team they just somewhat offered support ( a few bike during the year), thats all they did. They still make the best quads out there.

Exactly, they never saw fit to offer real support ATV racers. That is my problem with them. Well, that and I've never understood why they have such a crazy following bred out of mediocre machines. :ermm:

[Ellingsoc26]

Its funny how u all rag on honda for not supporting the sport well they seem to be doing it all right though if u ask me. They dont spend the moeny that kaw and suzuki do yet they are doing just as well in the pro class and sell the most 450rs you see more hondas at a national than anyone else.

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by Ellingsoc26
Its funny how u all rag on honda for not supporting the sport well they seem to be doing it all right though if u ask me. They dont spend the moeny that kaw and suzuki do yet they are doing just as well in the pro class and sell the most 450rs you see more hondas at a national than anyone else.

Just because they sell a lot of units doesn't mean they do a good job supporting. That's like saying they did a good job supporting during the "dead days" in the 90's when everybody was riding 250r's.

[dehner47]

Originally posted by Ellingsoc26
Its funny how u all rag on honda for not supporting the sport well they seem to be doing it all right though if u ask me. They dont spend the moeny that kaw and suzuki do yet they are doing just as well in the pro class and sell the most 450rs you see more hondas at a national than anyone else.

well put. totally agree with this statement..

[tt racer]

Honda has sold enough units to continue support not that it was all great anyway. Its sad to see i love the sport as much as anybody we didnt need this. Honda never really stepped up anyway nobody can argue this. I agree any support is good support but suz and kaw ktm took it to the next level and thats what we needed. We need more tv coverage but its not going to happen with stuff like this:(

[usp4u]

Originally posted by madskrillz2
Just because they sell a lot of units doesn't mean they do a good job supporting. That's like saying they did a good job supporting during the "dead days" in the 90's when everybody was riding 250r's.
In the intrest of keeping this kinda fair...They didnt have anything to sell then. It wasnt their fault either, we can thank the CPSC for that.
They have a product to sell now, and they choose not to throw alotta money at promoting it. That's the part that gets me, why do people fall all over themselves over Honda ? They probably sell the most 450's every year. The 450r is not some magical scoot that does anything particulally better than any other 450. Yet folks buy it b/c its a honda. Honda is a storied company with a great legacy, but they are a shell of the company that built that legacy.
I read all the time on Honda forums reguarding the LTR: "That thing is pig!" "It needs a pipe to run!" "No good for trails". I gaurantee that if the TRX was introduced with a wide stance and EFI, the Honda riders would say it was perfect.

[extremeblastr]

building a good machine does not mean you support the sport well, how long has it been since they did a redesign? how long will it be? honda is millions behind the others for support money and r&d because you keep buying what they already have so why should they build something new and put effort forth.

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by usp4u
In the intrest of keeping this kinda fair...They didnt have anything to sell then. It wasnt their fault either, we can thank the CPSC for that.
They have a product to sell now, and they choose not to throw alotta money at promoting it. That's the part that gets me, why do people fall all over themselves over Honda ? They probably sell the most 450's every year. The 450r is not some magical scoot that does anything particulally better than any other 450. Yet folks buy it b/c its a honda. Honda is a storied company with a great legacy, but they are a shell of the company that built that legacy.
I read all the time on Honda forums reguarding the LTR: "That thing is pig!" "It needs a pipe to run!" "No good for trails". I gaurantee that if the TRX was introduced with a wide stance and EFI, the Honda riders would say it was perfect.

I'll give you that. I was just trying to get a point across. You're exactly right about the whole LTR thing too.

[coryatver]

Its to bad but they really didn't give to much support anyway. The only true factory rider on that list was Matlock. Won't be surprised if those guys race as privateers still on a honda next year. And Honda is probley not going to be the only one to pull out.

Sure some other manufactures give lots of support to the sport but there quad is junk. Maybe they should spend a little more money on making a good quad than spending all of it on marketing. Pro support is not going to help me as an amateur I just need a quad that can finish the race.

This sport survived through no support from manufactures and even got through them not even making sport quads. The sport will be fine.

[vzmain61]

5 years of the same thing over and over and over again. I can take a LTR and put nerfs, pipe and a killswitch on it and make laps with ease. I'm not going to bash honda but there is always a good solution to the problem. Support those that support you. My local dealer has a good mix of new 07 and 08 model 450R's. But he sells a sh*t ton of GoldWing motorcycles. Either way maybe they will get on the ball and get something done.

[coryatver]

sorry to say but most of the sport quad market has probley never even ridden on a mx track. The LTR is just to wide that is why you see a lot of 450r's.

[TrapZ400]

I wonder what Gust will ride in 2010

Straight from ATV Racin' Extra

"In '08 he had a deal. Finish in the top three and we'll renew your contract. He did just that. In '09, with the season over, Doug Gust finished 4th overall for the MX National series. Our last conversation with him was not one that we wanted to hear. In his own words he told us there was nothing working with the yellow team, that he was talking with another OEM, but, in all reality, he had nothing going on for 2010 at that time."

[450ice]

didnt someone say on here not to long ago ktm is pullin the plug on there atv industry??? jw

[extremeblastr]

last i heard gust was retiring for good

[FL-R]

The Rs will be coming back

[extremeblastr]

Originally posted by 450ice
didnt someone say on here not to long ago ktm is pullin the plug on there atv industry??? jw

what i understand is that ktm is stopping production for a while until they start moving more of their current stock

[TrapZ400]

Originally posted by extremeblastr
last i heard gust was retiring for good

If he finds a ride for 2010 its going to be really weird to see him not on a suzuki.

[johnnyquad17]

It blows me away how loyal to a fault people are with Honda. I have had a 250x, 400ex, 250r and they were all good machines. But I want to see the sport grow so I bought a 07 LTR450 since Suzuki actually gives a **** about ATV racing. The LTR is a great bike and very inexpensive to make it very competative. I have raced for over 8 years and have raced a Lonestar 440ex and LTR450 with both being great machines. If more people would support the OEM's that support ATV racing Honda just might throw the pros a bone. I will continue to support those that support my passion. I wish more people will get it.

[vzmain61]

Don't be surprised if you see Doug go to a team that's having a problem getting the job done and needs some rider feedback that is good. Doug Gust is the man and has proved so by running up front year in and year out. If Doug really retires then it's been a great run for him. I tip my hat to Digger!

[TrapZ400]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Companies outside the sport won't be spending marketing dollars supporting the ATV scene...not enough fan base. IT is possible Joe or another rider could find an outside company to support him but it would be a charity case merely because they know him. Investing in the ATV MX scene doesn't make much sense. They can barely sell ATV t-shirts at the events. I am amazed how many riders I know who have never attended a National.
Yea that is one of the main problems why pro atv racing isnt as big as it should be. There isnt a big fan base for ATV Racing. Mostly everyone that owns a dirtbike goes to the dirtbike nationals and follows the pros regardless if they themselves race or not. That is what we need. If it was like that on the atv side then we would have a huge number of spectators at the nationals and our sport would be a lot bigger than it is now. There are a ton of atv riders that dont even follow atv racing or go to a National that is in their state.

[quad2xtreme]

IMO, a few manufacturers' marketing guys got caught up in bringing ATV racing to the next level and now it is falling apart because they can't justify it. When the WPSA folded (along with TV coverage), it changed the game. They were counting on it growing.

We love ATV MX but it is only a small part of the market. Honestly, whether Honda spends 50k or 500k to support a factory team isn't going to save or dissolve the ATV industry. What will save the industry is keeping the tracks open. If the track owners aren't making out from rider fees and attendance, they will stop having ATV races. Bikes own the show. There are races at NCMP this weekend. I bet there are 40 quad riders on Saturday and 160-200 bike riders on Sunday. Honestly, NCMP could do away with the Saturday quad races and make more money for charging for 2 sessions of bike practice on Saturday. They wouldn't have to groom the tracks as much either. They are really trying to hang in there for the quad riders but I will understand when they close the tracks to quads like many of the other tracks in the area. Doesn't make much sense to let 4 quad riders on the track to piss off 30 bike riders.

If you really want to save the sport, race, race, race, practice at a track, or pay the fee to watch. If you don't race and don't somehow pay for supporting the track venues then you are part of the problem. The manufacturers are looking to increase revenue from their involvement in the race scene, they aren't looking to provide charity or to subsidize the industry. I seriously doubt that what wins on Sunday sells on Monday applies to the ATV race fan base. Even if it does, it is a really small fan base.

BTW, I donated my time to NCMP for both days this weekend since I can't race. That is another way to help the track owners keep the place open...especially if a quad guy is helping out with the bikes too.

sad to hear, i wonder if they will pull the plug on continuing to make new models?

[godzilla]

Originally posted by chrisrzz1012
As for all the brand bashing going on is needs to stop. Its not goods for the sport. I've had very bad luck with Yamaha ( owned a Blaster, Raptor 660r/700, and Banshee) and won't own anything form them.

Oh, the irony...

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by godzilla
Oh, the irony...

:D I was thinking the same...

[JR3]

Originally posted by Ellingsoc26
Its funny how u all rag on honda for not supporting the sport well they seem to be doing it all right though if u ask me. They dont spend the moeny that kaw and suzuki do yet they are doing just as well in the pro class and sell the most 450rs you see more hondas at a national than anyone else.

let me guess u ride a honda haha so much blind loyalty on here. this is probably just the start of many bad things to happen to the sport i love.

[rageatvsupermom]

I don't understand what the big deal is with you guys complaining
about others brand loyalty.......what difference does it make? That is what makes this country what it is... having the CHOICE
to buy what you want. It does not matter if Honda does not
give the pro's a rig or rides.........Honda has proven itself over
and over again to be a very competitive machine in almost
EVERY form of racing. Can am has been supporting the pro's and
even given a good amount of support to the amatuers. You do
have to ask yourself why they are doing that? Well for one reason to get rid of a bunch of stock they have not sold......what
a great way to sell your product by almost giving them away.

What bothers me the most is that the rules at the nationals
were changed to bring in the Factories and thier support....
now that there is a little bit of a problem then they start to
bail out..............

Things are not going to change for ATV'S until the population
stops thinking about quads and the people as riding them
as a bunch of beer drinking, property destroying, letting the
quad babysit the 3 year old bubba's. We have done this to
ourselves, you can't do with bikes what we allow to be done
with ATV's.

We need to be pulling together regardless of what brand of
ATV you ride......and start supporting the smaller companies,
who sell parts, build/service shocks, frames, A-arms, engines
and so on....because that is who keeps us all going.

Thanks Michele

[JR3]

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
I don't understand what the big deal is with you guys complaining
about others brand loyalty.......what difference does it make? That is what makes this country what it is... having the CHOICE
to buy what you want. It does not matter if Honda does not
give the pro's a rig or rides.........Honda has proven itself over
and over again to be a very competitive machine in almost
EVERY form of racing. Can am has been supporting the pro's and
even given a good amount of support to the amatuers. You do
have to ask yourself why they are doing that? Well for one reason to get rid of a bunch of stock they have not sold......what
a great way to sell your product by almost giving them away.

What bothers me the most is that the rules at the nationals
were changed to bring in the Factories and thier support....
now that there is a little bit of a problem then they start to
bail out..............

Things are not going to change for ATV'S until the population
stops thinking about quads and the people as riding them
as a bunch of beer drinking, property destroying, letting the
quad babysit the 3 year old bubba's. We have done this to
ourselves, you can't do with bikes what we allow to be done
with ATV's.

We need to be pulling together regardless of what brand of
ATV you ride......and start supporting the smaller companies,
who sell parts, build/service shocks, frames, A-arms, engines
and so on....because that is who keeps us all going.

Thanks Michele

if u are referring to me i actually use to race a 450r. its hard to support the lil guys when there are none left just big dealerships its not even the quad riders who are to blame for any of this it is the economy and things are gonna get worse before they get better. its not just quads and anything to do with the quad industry. its any big company they are just trimming the fat.

[quadbod]

Just read an English mag and Honda are pulling out of England in 2010 as well.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
What bothers me the most is that the rules at the nationals
were changed to bring in the Factories and thier support....
now that there is a little bit of a problem then they start to
bail out..............

So true. I've said this many times too. The sport was growing nicely with the independents and then the big companies wanted to get greedy and get involved...and are now turning tail.

[rageatvsupermom]

Originally posted by JR3
if u are referring to me i actually use to race a 450r. its hard to support the lil guys when there are none left just big dealerships its not even the quad riders who are to blame for any of this it is the economy and things are gonna get worse before they get better. its not just quads and anything to do with the quad industry. its any big company they are just trimming the fat.

No I was not necessarily referring to you. What I am
referring to is when the economy is going bad, you need to
support the companies that support what ever form of riding
you do by donations and sponsorships. The small websites who
like to sell parts cheaper than anyone for one and Ebay for
another.....how many people and races has EBAY supported?
Alot of these websites that sell parts do not even have a
store front, most of those people have another job and do
it on the side.....what are they contributing to any form of
riding but giving someone a better deal than the person who
does it for a living and has done what is needed to have a store
front? We are all to blame for this, greed......and wanting
to live above our means. I could go on all day so I better stop
here.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by JR3
its not even the quad riders who are to blame for any of this it is the economy and things are gonna get worse before they get better. its not just quads and anything to do with the quad industry. its any big company they are just trimming the fat.

Quad riders can do a ton to help overcome the problem...it is more than just the economy. The problem is that the manufacturers aren't going to fund the race industry. You're right, they see spending money promoting the ATV MX scene as FAT...not profit making. That leaves the riders, the fans, the dealerships, the 3rd party parts manufacturers, and the track owners to keep the mx race scene going. Don't think this can't go away. We are quickly going back to grass roots racing. We need a fan base. We need to shed our image much like Nascar has.

[JR3]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Quad riders can do a ton to help overcome the problem...it is more than just the economy. The problem is that the manufacturers aren't going to fund the race industry. You're right, they see spending money promoting the ATV MX scene as FAT...not profit making. That leaves the riders, the fans, the dealerships, the 3rd party parts manufacturers, and the track owners to keep the mx race scene going. Don't think this can't go away. We are quickly going back to grass roots racing. We need a fan base. We need to shed our image much like Nascar has.

very much agree with you and to rageatvsupermom its hard to turn down ebay deals and cheap parts when your workin all week just to afford to race so if someone can save me 50 hell even 20 bucks im going with them.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by JR3
very much agree with you and to rageatvsupermom its hard to turn down ebay deals and cheap parts when your workin all week just to afford to race so if someone can save me 50 hell even 20 bucks im going with them.

I hear you. I am older and more established now. I can afford to pay more to directly support the manufacturers. I feel I get better service too. I just bought a Lonestar frame from ATV Galaxy (direct and not through ebay). I saved $500. I couldn't justify going direct. Sometime the dealers have to be willing to meet you half way...especially if they know you are racing. When I was 21-22 and living in Florida, I couldn't afford to run the AC. We had to leave the trailer every day because it was too hot inside. The thought of even having a quad or bike never even entered my mind. So many of you are much luckier. I can definitely see the struggle when you are just at the brink of not being able to afford to ride.

[SRH]

atv racing will exist as long as someone can profit from it, and someone will profit from it as long as people want to race them....will pro atv racers be on tv? no, will there be new atvs for us to race? who knows

i love the sport but i cannot see the sport surviving too much longer, its too dangerous and not unique enough to outshine dirtbike racing, at the least i think the sport will continue at a level no less than what we saw in 02-03, its a kick in the balls to the sport for sure

btw aftermarket companies need to do business the right way and not over extend themselves simply because there is a burst in intrest, i mean obviously they need to do some market research and better serve the buyer then they wouldnt be going to ebay, your going to see alot of companies go under, but for every 1 that does someone else will take advantage, maybe on a smaller scale , soon as times get tough everyone runs around like a chicken with there head off that its all over....just adapt and move on

I think with the price of used ATV's theres not a large amount buying new. The competition between brands is great how it moves things forward and advances but Honda just kept falling further back. Many had hope they were waiting to do some big release to top it all. Maybe? I figured 2011 models would be just that but with them pulling out of racing for 2010 it seems they are getting out of the sport? Heres a quick rant about the price inflation of aftermarket parts. Its absolutely rediculous how much it cost to make a part and what they sell it for. They obviously never took an economics course or anything because the high price doesnt always mean the most money made. Theres a certain spot with price and amount sold that will make the most and I truely believe if they lowered their prices to make it more affordable to so many others they would be making more. I cant justify paying $600 for a-arms. Simple metal tubes welded together with ball joints... the cost to make them, $25. Now if they were half the price there would be new a-arms on my quad, its more reasonable. Looking back at old magazines the price to completely rebuild your stock shocks... $100! yes $100 the same thing they charge $350 or so for now. This was just 5 years ago that the prices were that low. What happened? One person raised the price so everyone followed and they just kept going? Nobody can make a quality part for a good price anymore?

[quad2xtreme]

unless there is collusion, then the high priced vendors would go out of business and be replaced with more reasonable vendors.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by mxracer
Now, you and a lot of people will understand the importance of company like BRP for the sport, maybe people will think twice before bashing a company who try hard to improve the sport.

You can keep me out of your statement, I have supported EVRY manufacture in this sport with out bashing any of them

[Pappy]

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
I don't understand what the big deal is with you guys complaining
about others brand loyalty.......what difference does it make? That is what makes this country what it is... having the CHOICE
to buy what you want. It does not matter if Honda does not
give the pro's a rig or rides.........Honda has proven itself over
and over again to be a very competitive machine in almost
EVERY form of racing. Can am has been supporting the pro's and
even given a good amount of support to the amatuers. You do
have to ask yourself why they are doing that? Well for one reason to get rid of a bunch of stock they have not sold......what
a great way to sell your product by almost giving them away.

What bothers me the most is that the rules at the nationals
were changed to bring in the Factories and thier support....
now that there is a little bit of a problem then they start to
bail out..............

Things are not going to change for ATV'S until the population
stops thinking about quads and the people as riding them
as a bunch of beer drinking, property destroying, letting the
quad babysit the 3 year old bubba's. We have done this to
ourselves, you can't do with bikes what we allow to be done
with ATV's.

We need to be pulling together regardless of what brand of
ATV you ride......and start supporting the smaller companies,
who sell parts, build/service shocks, frames, A-arms, engines
and so on....because that is who keeps us all going.

Thanks Michele

Couldnt agree more, it is just a shame to see the biggest manufacture pull out even though their support was not widespread

the rules may or may not hamper riders, could we see a chnage and allow aftermarket chassis back?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
unless there is collusion, then the high priced vendors would go out of business and be replaced with more reasonable vendors.

Or be replaced with a handfull of companies that make cheaper parts with less inovation and durability.

The aftermarket is already on thin ice, honda leaving wont impact them as much as other issues

[ZRider400]

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
No I was not necessarily referring to you. What I am
referring to is when the economy is going bad, you need to
support the companies that support what ever form of riding
you do by donations and sponsorships. The small websites who
like to sell parts cheaper than anyone for one and Ebay for
another.....how many people and races has EBAY supported?
Alot of these websites that sell parts do not even have a
store front, most of those people have another job and do
it on the side.....what are they contributing to any form of
riding but giving someone a better deal than the person who
does it for a living and has done what is needed to have a store
front? We are all to blame for this, greed......and wanting
to live above our means. I could go on all day so I better stop
here.

Agreeed!!!

Everyone of my competitors whore parts out at right above dealer cost..and it kills any chance at making profit for someone such as my self. After you add in 8% ebay fees, paypal fees....your pretty much making 20 bucks off of a 400 dollar item...Hard to run a business like that, when everything is being sold at next to nothing on ebay. Its great that people can get super deals, but it really ruins the market. I could go on and on forever about this, but its just how it is... Fox really stepped up this year making all of their dealers advertise at retail only , if you dont , then you lose your account.

I have been offering a sponsorship to any rider running my graphics, they get locked in at 20% off retail on all parts/accessories....... But what good is that when anything under 500 bucks is sold at dealer cost on ebay? The only thing i can basically help racers out with is the price of larger items, but then again.....those too are whored out on ebay.

The main person doing it is "atv galaxy" Great seller, great feedback but its ruining it for smaller shops. He sells 100 parts a day making 5 bucks per part... where you could realistically be selling 20 parts a day and making your normal profit.

I too tried out the whole dirtbike thing..........its great, but its just not the same.
I sponsor our local track, offering discounts/ gift certificates when they had races....... and its sad when you go through the trouble of that and you hardly get any return, because everyone is stuck on ordering online.
I am a quad rider at heart, but 70% of the riders around here...ride bikes. Ive tried to open everyones eyes for the last 5 years, but honestly..its really hard. Theres a group of 4 or 5 of us that still ride quads religiously, but its lame showing up at the track and its a few quads and 30 bikes... For the last few years i have been riding a CRF250 and now a CRF450.....but i still want to be on my quad.

One of our local tracks runs bike and quad races on the same day, and it ends up pissing off everyone because the quad riders hate the huge ruts, and the bikers hate when the corners get leveled down......cant win.



Anyway...thats my vent session for the night..

[Pappy]

The manufacture or main supplier should put the halt the ebay crap, but they wont. As long as they can sell volume and get paid they will, its not just the atv community that does this. I cant fault people for buying from the cheapest place, but i can understand why we shouldnt support those companies if we look at it from a moral stand point...but then again, whats moral in business anymore:ermm:

Just like this site, we have companies willing to sponsor us for advertising rights, but there are those that spam everyday for free, have links in their signatures etc. If you can provide what a few sites do for free, then start your own and allow everything free, maybe goggle hits will pay your bills:chinese:

[rageatvsupermom]

Originally posted by Pappy
The manufacture or main supplier should put the halt the ebay crap, but they wont. As long as they can sell volume and get paid they will, its not just the atv community that does this. I cant fault people for buying from the cheapest place, but i can understand why we shouldnt support those companies if we look at it from a moral stand point...but then again, whats moral in business anymore:ermm:

Just like this site, we have companies willing to sponsor us for advertising rights, but there are those that spam everyday for free, have links in their signatures etc. If you can provide what a few sites do for free, then start your own and allow everything free, maybe goggle hits will pay your bills:chinese:


I totally agree, I look for deals in everyday life as well. I am
not trying to down anyone for trying to save money, what I am
saying is that don't complain when you have no support for the
sport, because you are not supporting the ones supporting you now. Like I said how many people have ebay or service honda
sponsored? Who are any of us to tell someone what they should charge for a product they made......running a business is not as
easy as some would like to think. Manufacturing is not either......

[Pappy]

read my signature...its been there for years;)

[Pappy]

Oh and i will add....

I have b!tched that Honda hasnt done enough for our sport and i base that on the loyal customers it has racing its products with little in return. This is routine for them! It is great really, make a product everyone wants, sell them all, support very little. They are the leader, unfortunatley this time they are the first out publicly

I just think its a huge message that spells the approach of "more to follow!"

[matt14c]

Im all for supporting those that support you an in point have bought and chose just about all the site sponsers here on this site and in pretty much everyday life. I live in a small town where if it werent for the locals im not even sure if any lights would turn on at night or if things would function. So I understand how things work. BUT again in people buying stuff from ebay and other discounted part whole sale retailers not really anyones fault. It has been stated before that most people who are buying these toys and parts dont race so for them to spend $600 for a part that on ebay they could get it for $400 or less just isnt justified. As far as local dealers and not just manufactures. I know around me most of dealers it seems that everyone who works for them are dicks or have stick stuck where the sun dont shine. I have to drive 50 min to go to a dealer with people I can tolerate and there are 4 that are closer than I cannot stand the people and refuse to do buisness with them. I mean im only 24 and god doesnt shine his light on my *** or anything but when I have to fight or argue to get things that I want then I would just rather not. Its easier for me to point click and wait for UPS! I worked retail at Cabelas for over four years and they USED to stress customer service. Customer is always right, do what the customer wants, blah blah. Not anymore and this was just like three years ago. Nobody wants to help, answer questions or even speak to you until they have your credit card number anymore and I think its pretty sad. I cant imagine what older generations and grown ups think when some punk kid treats them like some guy out of a dumpster when they expect customer service and respect.
For the crazy part prices you have to factor in that they are paying a shop full of peoples salaries, benefits and for the materials. I play hockey and not sure how many people will know what im talking about but hockey stick prices are NUTS there are sticks that retail for like $450. I was told by a manufature rep that that particular stick actually only costs about $30-35 to produce. But it takes hundreds if not thousands of hours for research and development. Thats what you pay for. You know the saying you get what you pay for? Well thats why the things that are the best are worked on and thought of for thousands of hours to make it right for us to just slap on and go.
As long as Honda takes the money they will now be saving to continue to make great products im good with that. They never sponsered me and I have owned 1/2 dozen of there products at least. For the companies that are still supporting well thats great too but you have to think they just dont have some secret scheme to make money the others dont know about so what are they cutting or making cheaper to be able to do this??????

[Jersey450R]

Originally posted by Pappy


I just think its a huge message that spells the approach of "more to follow!"

That was my first thought exactly! :eek:

[k4f5x0r]

i just think that other manufacturer's are going to take advantage of this. they may see this as an oppurtunity to take some of those top riders, and use them to their advantage. and finally take all of those honda riders off their pedastol that they put themselves on.

[quadracer707]

This is a prime example why Walmart is in buisness. Everyone shops there for prices & discounts even on gas now, & guess what? No more local small mom & pop stores. This is exactly what are country is doing looking for discounts, cheap prices, & no service. We need to wake up & support local business & people who support us. However we need buisness' to honestly sell & be competitive. I make Homemade ice cream that we sell out of our restaurant I cant compete with the buy one get one free half gallon, I try to sell QUALITY & SERVICE. So if you want people to stay away from ebay & the walmarts of the world lets sell our selves & services & most of all knowledge,

just my thought of buisness,

Ken

[ATVMX905]

dont bash me, but i truely believe that the atv scene is going to slowly die out. it seems every year they get less and less support. i feel sorry for all of these guys that love the sport and spend all of this money to go out and race. they deserve a damn break already. someone should help them out.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by ATVMX905
dont bash me, but i truely believe that the atv scene is going to slowly die out. it seems every year they get less and less support. i feel sorry for all of these guys that love the sport and spend all of this money to go out and race. they deserve a damn break already. someone should help them out.

Ummmm...the support has been outstanding over the past 3 or 4 years. It had been on a record pace for some time, the bad economy is what is causing the issue.

[TrapZ400]

Im not bashing you I respect your opinion but I disagree. It wont die out. The economy is just really bad right now. The sport has survived for many years with NO factory support and we will get through these tough times. When the economy gets better im sure the manufacturers will get back into it.

[xrxmxcx]

I don't really understand how you think ATV racing will vanish? It's worked its way up in the past 10 years and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Factory support might be a little less than usual, but it won't stop the pro's from making it to the track. The ATVA National series is going strong and is surviving now that the WPSA is not there to compete. Two series would have made it a stretch, but there is more than enough to support one national series. Regional series and support is still on the upside, along with attendance at least around these parts.

Honda has backed out, and they haven't left a big void as say if...Kawasaki, Can-am, Suzuki walked away. Suzuki might outsource its racing through a Suzuki supported Yoshimura race team, and it will most likely produce the same results. Can-am is going back into 2010 strong, and Kawasaki will most likely follow, along with the whole crowd of privateers and amateurs!

Everyone keep your fingers crossed and support the sport, don't sit there and say what if and wonder about it's demise!

[vzmain61]

Yes the economy sucks. But those who want to play will pay. All the rest will set on the sidelines and that will work. As long as I have a dollar to my name I will continue to ride and support the sport in every way I can. Some people waste lots of money in bars, strip clubs and drugs. I will waste mine on riding a ATV.

[TrapZ400]

I have heard some rumors that Kawi is pulling out too. Does anyone have anymore information on this? I hope they are not going to completely pull out like honda and hopefully they will atleast have a team and have Pro Circuit run it like on the bike side.

[DEVINF450R]

this completely changed my mond on switching to a Honda from the LTR

[vzmain61]

Kawi is still in for next year. So said a certain person at Lorettas.

[Tommy 17]

If I had to guess the reason for this is because of the economy...

I'd say we had to cut our support because of the economy and the image we are trying to show the world. For example we can't be blowing millions on a race team when the auto industry is in its current state. You all can bash Honda all you want over this, but remember Honda is what got the quad market the way it is currently. Because of the 400ex in 1999 quads have evolved to what they are now. If it wasn't for Honda you all would be racing blasters and 300exs...


Honda will be back in time I'd say...

[OzLinc]

The Japaneese YEN is hurting Honda as much as the decline in local sales. The YEN has strengthened alot against the greenback in the last 12 months this means that not only are Honda selling less units they are also getting much less in their pocket for each unit they do sell.

eg: If Honda sold a quad for $7k (US Dollar) and then translated that in to YEN they got 7000Y......BUT now the YEN is stronger and the Hondas are cheaper (as they have heaps of stock) so you can get a new quad for $5.5k (US Dollar) but it is only worth 3500Y ......... thats a HUGE hit to Honda Corp.

NOTE : These numbers are just an example but you get the idea.

A huge re-shuffle in the industry has to happen.........I think KTM style prices are going to be the result over the next few years.

ATV's are just a small part of Honda and I think this announcement is the first in a long line of bad news for the industry. The good news is we (all of us) are still passionate about our chosen sport and as long as there is a market there will be companies that produce products to fill it.

[jkiserracing]

Well.....I think this is not quite as big of a blow as you might think (im optimistic)

See, I think it wasnt as much bad news for the industry as it was for the riders they supported. Its just that now they have to get their big support elsewhere. Whos to say that Byrd, Upperman or Goodman wont show back up in 2010 on a new shiny Honda.....sponsored by some big whoever....I really think this gave some of the other manufactures an edge though....Their technology is all ready ahead as it is. These young kids you see racing....they want to be like their favorite riders. They want to be like Dustin and cant wait til they get their own LTR450...or Natalie and have a Can-Am just like his. Maybe Creamer is ther hero and they look for the day to be on their own Green machine or even (yes even) a new Honda.

Back a few years ago no manufacturer made anything to race.....what did we do then.......we built our own......and raced......and had fun.......and again the kids had favorite riders and wanted to be like them. That wont go away friends. Honda made a company wide financial decision that directly affected their supported riders. They DID NOT say (yet I hope) that they were not making anymore 450r's. The 2010 with its bold new graphics and all....will be for sale this January. The economy is not still in such a downward spiral...its settled down and will begin to improve. ATV's will still sell....all though used ones are the popular choice at the moment. But someone you or I know will go buy a new quad this year from a dealer. Honda knows this customer has lots of choices now. Yamaha has the mx and xc version now....kudos for them to step it up again. So does Can-Am....the others have the FI, aluminum frames, and Honda....well they have their reliability. I beleive they are gambling a bit on that selling point. But when the time is right...they will release some kind of great updated 450r (my prediction only) that has lots of cool new stuff....and updated look and the boldest new graphics anyone has ever laid eyes on.

So...I say....not as bad from my veiwpoint. Support your ATV community, tracks, suppliers, shops, ect the best you can this year and next. If you think your ready to buy a new one...do your homework. make a good decision.......If you like the Honda...get a Honda...if you like the Can-Am...get a Can-Am.....want a KAWI to be like Creamer....go for it, .....get the ATV that YOU want reguardless of what someone else thinks. Make it your own.........Ill see yall at the races.......
:cool: :cool:

[ProspectorJim]

As long as there are ATV's, there will be people who want to show that theirs is faster than the other guys.

[quad2xtreme]

I don't think anyone is concerned that grassroots ATV racing will survive. The fact that you can still find a place to race lawnmowers is a testament to that.

The real question is what impact will it have on ATV MX racing if the manufacturers pull their support both at the pro level as well as in contingency dollars? I've seen a drop in the number of tracks allowing quads in the 3 yrs I've been in NC. The question is how far will you have to travel to race and will you be able to find a practice track? Personally, I don't think the manufacturers provide any support for keeping local tracks open. The local Honda dealer helps so do I not buy a Honda from him when I know he is helping keep my track open? The other manufacturers aren't keeping my track open either.

[TrapZ400]

Expect to see less "factory" rigs at the races and more teams and rigs with heavy OEM support.

[jkiserracing]

Theres only a few now isnt there???? Monster Kawi, Suzuki and 2 Can-Am

[TrapZ400]

Originally posted by jkiserracing
Theres only a few now isnt there???? Monster Kawi, Suzuki and 2 Can-Am
Yamaha.

I think Kawi was the only team to provide an actual factory rig. Im pretty sure Suzuki was using Yoshimuras rig, Can Am was using Motoworks and Warnerts, and Yamaha was using Thomas Browns I believe.

[chrisrzz1012]

I do agree that more will follow on teams and support. But the whole industry going, Nope ? Why companies will be getting wiser on there prices and whats not selling. Who do you know will buy a 12k KTM? I don't anyone who would and some have some bucks too.

[chrisrzz1012]

Thats why you'll see some privateer with a 450r blowing people away. PLus there might be more smaller teams. As for Digger I want to wish a good retirement.

[hsr]

Former ATV racer back in the day Brian Winters and quite possibly Gary denton are forming some sort of race team that is supposedly to have a lot of backing from outside sponsors. They are looking for 2 pro riders and possibly a young pro-am rider. Any one heard anymore on this???

[TrapZ400]

Originally posted by hsr
Former ATV racer back in the day Brian Winters and quite possibly Gary denton are forming some sort of race team that is supposedly to have a lot of backing from outside sponsors. They are looking for 2 pro riders and possibly a young pro-am rider. Any one heard anymore on this???

Quote straight from Brian Winters

"Thanks for your support!!! and not to make this an "official" statement but Rensi Motorsports has gotten verbal commitments from a manufacturer to work with their factory efforts in some capacities for the next few years. To what level and how we fit into their program is still being sorted out.

We plan to announce the details very soon! What we feel is the most important aspect of our program that led them to view us as an asset to the sport and to their brand was the simple fact that we develop sponsorship and give sponsorship dollars back to the manufacturer. We also have brought several business relationship tools that help to potentially develop new business through our program. On top of all of this, we are also including the manufacturers brand on our NASCAR teams!

Much is still to do with all of this! Such as rider line-up and exact budgets but as I stated this is not an official statement, but we have begun selling the program to our partners based on the verbal commitments we have gotten. Again, I can't stress this enough... there is still so much to do with this!

Today's economy is crazy and I think it's important for consumers to understand that we are facing some very tough times in our country. We got to a point where we all just assumed that all the manufacturers would NEED us as bad as we needed them. Remember who supports our sport the next time you go to your local dealer!!"

[66gt40]

rumors floatin around that gust may be going to polaris, maybe as manager

[jkiserracing]

I didnt really think Gust was actually retiring.....but if he does..Im bettin Byrd will be on that Suzuki..........

[TrapZ400]

Originally posted by jkiserracing
I didnt really think Gust was actually retiring.....but if he does..Im bettin Byrd will be on that Suzuki..........
I doubt it. Im pretty sure Wimmer will be the only rider on the team next year. But then again you never know anything can happen.

I just cant wait to hear what OEM Rensi Motorsports gets and the riders that they will sign.

[08mxkfx]

There will be no factory kawi rig, no factory suzuki rig and only 1 can am team. Creamer will be racing for DRT, Can ams trying to pick up Wienen and Gust going to Polaris. Wimmer will be racing for Yoshimura. This is from a reliable source so i will say that is 99% positive.

[jkiserracing]

Originally posted by 08mxkfx
There will be no factory kawi rig, no factory suzuki rig and only 1 can am team. Creamer will be racing for DRT, Can ams trying to pick up Wienen and Gust going to Polaris. Wimmer will be racing for Yoshimura. This is from a reliable source so i will say that is 99% positive.

Well thats kind of hard to beleive that Kawi wouldnt continue with Monster Energy and keep their team they have now......I mean Creamer and Wienen were on fire there especially at the end of the season.......Im not sure I see the logic in that....but what do I know.....

[extremeblastr]

Originally posted by jkiserracing
Well thats kind of hard to beleive that Kawi wouldnt continue with Monster Energy and keep their team they have now......I mean Creamer and Wienen were on fire there especially at the end of the season.......Im not sure I see the logic in that....but what do I know.....

not much at all because i've heard the same thing about creamer and wienen. its already been said once in this thread, soon there will be no "factory" rigs but there will be teams with rigs with factory support.

[jkiserracing]

Yeah I suppose....I saw the other comments on this thread but I wasnt sure what was real or what was just rumor

[08mxkfx]

Yeah the only factory rig that will be at nationals will be the one Can Am team with Natalie and trying to get Wienen.

[hsr]

Originally posted by 08mxkfx
There will be no factory kawi rig, no factory suzuki rig and only 1 can am team. Creamer will be racing for DRT, Can ams trying to pick up Wienen and Gust going to Polaris. Wimmer will be racing for Yoshimura. This is from a reliable source so i will say that is 99% positive.

Who is DRT? Any word on Gibson or Lawson?? Yamaha sporting a factory team still or no?

Originally posted by 66gt40
rumors floatin around that gust may be going to polaris, maybe as manager

did he crash and get hit in the head making him confused? lol

[TrapZ400]

Originally posted by hsr
Who is DRT? Any word on Gibson or Lawson?? Yamaha sporting a factory team still or no?
DRT racing
http://www.drtatvracing.com/

[m0t0xk1d]

drt racing is a company in NH they are the people who helped him get to where he is now

[08mxkfx]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
did he crash and get hit in the head making him confused? lol
no Suzuki is getting out of it and Yoshimura only wants a one man team. I would rather have a full factory ride on a polaris then be a factory support rider

[xrxmxcx]

Originally posted by 08mxkfx
There will be no factory kawi rig, no factory suzuki rig and only 1 can am team. Creamer will be racing for DRT, Can ams trying to pick up Wienen and Gust going to Polaris. Wimmer will be racing for Yoshimura. This is from a reliable source so i will say that is 99% positive.

Already see two or three holes in that lineup.

[Ellingsoc26]

From what i know that sounds pretty good what holes do u see in that?

[FHKracingZ]

Originally posted by xrxmxcx
Already see two or three holes in that lineup.
Dont look to hard, cause your wrong!

[maticus]

so will creamer still be running a kawi? and im guessing gibson will be with walsh kawi. and i guess cody miller is getting the book if they are trying for weinen ( good luck with dnf"s) cause dude is ruff on bikes lol. man its going to be crazy next year.

[DEVINF450R]

im surprised they are keeping Natalie instead of Lawson, but it just may be Warnhart(sp) that will have a team. and I think Chad will stilll kick it on a CanAm, but I see alot of guys running Honda next year if I could guess

[hasbeenttduner]

The way things are going I would guess you could be seeing a few White or Black Honda's out there.If a number of top pro's are on thier own and pick what they want you won't see the honda's go away in 2010.

[atveric132]

i personally think KTM should give byrd and upperman a good factory contract. and maybe goodman if they have the funds

[extremeblastr]

Originally posted by m0t0xk1d
drt racing is a company in NH they are the people who helped him get to where he is now

almost but not quite. dave has been with josh for a while as his mechanic and that is how that relationship was built but josh got his start with mike walsh, hence the walsh yfz he put a whoopin on the proam classes with.