laeger vs. roll

[800screws]

looking to possibly pick up a full roll 305pv R...it was travis spaders old 265pv R from when he won the championship....what i was wondering is how it compares to a cr500 link narrow laegers bike? the roll is no link...
i really like the laeger's...turn nice and sharp and the rear was nice through the rough...but i hear such good things about roll's also?

any opinions or people who have ridden both?

[thedeatons]

First, I cannot imagine something besides my Laeger after riding it for awhile (coming off four strokes).

I would think the Roll would be awesome though, I love getting setup pro bikes. My Laeger was one of Eichner's years ago...

The difference I have heard is the no-link handles everything great, the Laeger does REALLY well with big hit stuff....

Have any pics?

James

[8686]

I have both and they are both ex-pro quads. My Roll was Mike Maniaci's quad and my Laeger was Matt Bartosek's quad. I've been motocross racing the Roll this summer and it's been great. It's definitely not the quad that's keeping me from going faster! I've pulled holeshots and it corners good. I just picked up the Laeger so I'll be working on it a little bit to get it ready for some racing next year. Any quad or chassis will take some setup and fine tuning to get it right for you. Is the Roll the actual quad Travis Spader raced in 2000?

[8686]

Is it this one?
http://i27.tinypic.com/2m5fe35.jpg

[800screws]

yeah, that's it...

[racerx573]

Roll chassis tend to handle bigger whooped out tracks a little better, where as the Laeger's are pristine on more choppy brake bumped out tracks.

The different leverage ratios of a CR link vs. a no link each have their plus's and minuses. But both chassis are superb.

Not to mention Lobos are more rare, and the chassis alone would set you back 12 g's back in the day.


Do you still have my Laeger's R?

If so, are you selling it to get the Roll?

I may be interested in buying it back off of you.

[racerx573]

Also the Roll frames are about 2" narrower than a Laeger's narrow. A little bit more chassis roll but zero bumper steer. Even less than a Laeger's. They track a little straighter since the t-pins can get a bit twitchy, compare to the Lobo's. And I think the Rolls maybe have a degree or 2 more frame rake.

[800screws]

thanks for the info...no i ended up selling the R to finish the jp outlaw quad...i actually started riding it and it's a little too scary for a mx track....so this R is semi local....

[dehner47]

dude. i have ridden that exact bike when travis was racing it. and trust me, its a beast. not sure what shape its in now but that bike was top of the line the year it was built.

he use to ride my laeger and he loved it. i use to ride his lobo and i loved it. if its still the same set up as he had it and its not banged up, pick it up for sure. you will not regret it. awesome motor. suspension is off the hook, and it has every race goodie you can think of. if ya dont mind me asking, how much dude asking for it? does travis still own this bike?? cause i thought duncan took back his race bike at the end of the season when they decided to part ways. they ended up switching it over for tavis cain. you sure its not his practice bike? cause i do know he kept that one. either way, race bike or practice, they were identical bikes. same set up on both.

[dtowndiesel]

I've never had the chance to ride a laeger protrax set up, but I love my Lobo. Turns sharp, very responsive, almost no bump steer, and rides smooth as glass. Spaders bike was the reason why I bought a Lobo. Sex sells, and theres nothin sexier than the gullwing front end or gullwing swing arm on a Lobo chassis. In 99 or 2000 Dirtwheels did a full spread on that duncan built bike and it stole my heart, the only problem was I was still in high school at the time and it was a little out of my reach. Now that I have one I would'nt trade it for the world. Good luck with your decision! Check out the pics!

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/dougmiedema/DSC_0486.jpg

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/dougmiedema/DSC_0479.jpg

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by 800screws
thanks for the info...no i ended up selling the R to finish the jp outlaw quad...i actually started riding it and it's a little too scary for a mx track....so this R is semi local....


If you plan to buy that thing, I'd say you better act fast as that's a pretty good deal when you consider what most people are selling lobo chassis' for. Somebody might get a slightly better deal if he needs to sell fast and try to part it out to make a few bucks.

I have no doubt if you really didn't like it, you could get your money back out, unless the frame is tweaked or something.

[dehner47]

the only down fall to a lobo over a laeger is the weight. a lobo is built to last. and in that, doug roll comprimised in weight. he knew in order to make the chassis withstand the abuse of a pro mx rider, he had to make it strong. and strong means weight. thats the reason he runs square tubing on the bottom rails and round tube on the rest of the chassis. works awesome. you will never have to worry about cracking the frame. but you will have a bit of weight in the lobo over the laeger.

[deathman53]

the guys are jrd racing said a very similar thing. Their chassis is so close to a copy of the lobo, it should be copyright infringement. The laeger uses a cr500 shock and jrd/roll/lsr use a no-link, the no-link reacts faster. Where the cr500 is progressively acting, it will take the bigger hits better, but the small jars and whoops, it doesn't react fast enough. Both are awesome chassis, either way. I would like to have either one. I second what the other guy said about t-pin's being "twitchy", I have a t-pin, it turns awesome and goes through rough stuff, but with lots of off-bumps and ruts in different directions, it is twitchy. Where the roll lobo2, just goes straight through it and keeps the front end straight. The downside of the roll is that is turns real slow compared to the t-pin, not something a woods rider will want.

[312R1]

Originally posted by deathman53
the guys are jrd racing said a very similar thing. Their chassis is so close to a copy of the lobo, it should be copyright infringement. The laeger uses a cr500 shock and jrd/roll/lsr use a no-link, the no-link reacts faster. Where the cr500 is progressively acting, it will take the bigger hits better, but the small jars and whoops, it doesn't react fast enough. Both are awesome chassis, either way. I would like to have either one. I second what the other guy said about t-pin's being "twitchy", I have a t-pin, it turns awesome and goes through rough stuff, but with lots of off-bumps and ruts in different directions, it is twitchy. Where the roll lobo2, just goes straight through it and keeps the front end straight. The downside of the roll is that is turns real slow compared to the t-pin, not something a woods rider will want.


I have never riden a Lobo, but my Laeger cr500 takes the whoops like a champ..I travel all over and haven't found a track yet that I couldn't hit the whoops pinned in 3rd or 4th gear and it goes pretty straight without bouncing from side to side. I love my pro-trax, but like I said I have never riden a Lobo.

-Steve

[thedeatons]

Ditto what Steve said for me.... desert whoops in 4th are a blast.

Regarding the T-Pin twitchiness, a nice steering dampener cures that. See my CCP Steering Stabilizer thread for the solution.

James

[racerx573]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Ditto what Steve said for me.... desert whoops in 4th are a blast.

Regarding the T-Pin twitchiness, a nice steering dampener cures that. See my CCP Steering Stabilizer thread for the solution.

James

I ran dual PEP stabilizers on my Laeger's, lol. Took away the twitchyness for sure, and still turned fast as hell.

[dehner47]

Originally posted by deathman53
the guys are jrd racing said a very similar thing. Their chassis is so close to a copy of the lobo, it should be copyright infringement. The laeger uses a cr500 shock and jrd/roll/lsr use a no-link, the no-link reacts faster. Where the cr500 is progressively acting, it will take the bigger hits better, but the small jars and whoops, it doesn't react fast enough. Both are awesome chassis, either way. I would like to have either one. I second what the other guy said about t-pin's being "twitchy", I have a t-pin, it turns awesome and goes through rough stuff, but with lots of off-bumps and ruts in different directions, it is twitchy. Where the roll lobo2, just goes straight through it and keeps the front end straight. The downside of the roll is that is turns real slow compared to the t-pin, not something a woods rider will want.

JRD straight stole the geometry of all roll's designs. the only dif is roll's worked way better for some reason. i've ridden a pro lobo set up more times then i can count and it handled like a champ. i hd a JRD hybrid that would always push or try highsiding in corners. just always thought JRD bikes were a joke. and the sad part is, they are in the same town as me. i wont give them my buisness unless really need be. and if you have ever gone there or delt with joe sr then you will know what i'm talking about.

besides, if you go back in time and look at there website, they had a few pics of there machine shop, and there was a lobo box sitting right next to the jig for the chassis n a-arms. atleast move the box of the company your copying when you take pics of your shop. its kinda like "LOOK. WE STOLE DOUG ROLL'S DESIGN. BUY OURS INTEAD" haha

hey jason, i did the samething to my laeger back in the day. 2 stabilizers and your bump steer is gone. easy fix.

and trust me people, a cr500 link is hands down the best rear set up you can have. why you think most race bikes come or have a link installed. its awesome in the whoops. i will never run another bike without a link after i had that JRD no link. rear felt horrible. plus, why do you think KTM sx bikes are junk in the whoops. cause they have no rear link. dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out:devil:

[Honda 250r 001]

ok so im looking for a frame that doesnt have to be super strong because im a lighter racer but it needs to be able to handle big jumps with easy and corner like a champ.

Maybe this is off topic but i was wondering if someone could help me.

[croat1]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
ok so im looking for a frame that doesnt have to be super strong because im a lighter racer but it needs to be able to handle big jumps with easy and corner like a champ.

Maybe this is off topic but i was wondering if someone could help me.


you can't be serious. you want to do big jumps but you think you do not need a super strong frame? a stock 20 plus year old frame is not going to hold up. any aftermarket frame built as a replacement/mx/desert is good.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by croat1
you can't be serious. you want to do big jumps but you think you do not need a super strong frame? a stock 20 plus year old frame is not going to hold up. any aftermarket frame built as a replacement/mx/desert is good.

well you guys said that the roll frame is heavier? how much? Right now im using a stock frame and its holding up.

i just want to know oppinnions of bang for buck...

How are the arens frames? decent? they crack? Come in cr five hundy and no link or just stock link? narrow front?

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
well you guys said that the roll frame is heavier? how much? Right now im using a stock frame and its holding up.

i just want to know oppinnions of bang for buck...

How are the arens frames? decent? they crack? Come in cr five hundy and no link or just stock link? narrow front?

any by the way i have no idea how to pick a frame. im looking to learn about them.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
any by the way i have no idea how to pick a frame. im looking to learn about them.


There are a lot of things to take into consideration

1st I'd say is type of riding you do - choose one that fits
2nd is your budget - Roll and Laeger are usually more money plus a Roll frame requires the complete setup of Frame - A-arms, Swingarm, Stem and rear shock. Roll frames only come in Narrow front / No-link. Laeger CR500 frames can be found in both narrow front as well as std front. The narrow front will require longer front a-arms and you must have the swingarm with it or it's semi-useless because you'll have to find a swingarm used which is hard.

Arens and LSR are both strong - Arens had a batch of frames that were welded by a robot and ended up being off in a number of spots, but otherwise they are strong. LSR frames from 01 and up are pretty decent and are stronger than stock - they also have a NO-link feature otherwise most are Standard replacement frames.

If you have a stock frame and you like the geometry and know how to handle your quad then you could easily just upgrade to a stock replacement made of chromoly. If you want some additional features like CR500 link for big whoops and big jumps then go that route but they are not always easy to find these days.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
There are a lot of things to take into consideration

1st I'd say is type of riding you do - choose one that fits
2nd is your budget - Roll and Laeger are usually more money plus a Roll frame requires the complete setup of Frame - A-arms, Swingarm, Stem and rear shock. Roll frames only come in Narrow front / No-link. Laeger CR500 frames can be found in both narrow front as well as std front. The narrow front will require longer front a-arms and you must have the swingarm with it or it's semi-useless because you'll have to find a swingarm used which is hard.

Arens and LSR are both strong - Arens had a batch of frames that were welded by a robot and ended up being off in a number of spots, but otherwise they are strong. LSR frames from 01 and up are pretty decent and are stronger than stock - they also have a NO-link feature otherwise most are Standard replacement frames.

If you have a stock frame and you like the geometry and know how to handle your quad then you could easily just upgrade to a stock replacement made of chromoly. If you want some additional features like CR500 link for big whoops and big jumps then go that route but they are not always easy to find these days.

i always wanted a cr 500 link but i cant decide having no link seems like plus, do both provide the same ammount of wheel travel? or atleast close?

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by dehner47
JRD straight stole the geometry of all roll's designs. the only dif is roll's worked way better for some reason. i've ridden a pro lobo set up more times then i can count and it handled like a champ. i hd a JRD hybrid that would always push or try highsiding in corners. just always thought JRD bikes were a joke. and the sad part is, they are in the same town as me. i wont give them my buisness unless really need be. and if you have ever gone there or delt with joe sr then you will know what i'm talking about.

besides, if you go back in time and look at there website, they had a few pics of there machine shop, and there was a lobo box sitting right next to the jig for the chassis n a-arms. atleast move the box of the company your copying when you take pics of your shop. its kinda like "LOOK. WE STOLE DOUG ROLL'S DESIGN. BUY OURS INTEAD" haha

hey jason, i did the samething to my laeger back in the day. 2 stabilizers and your bump steer is gone. easy fix.

and trust me people, a cr500 link is hands down the best rear set up you can have. why you think most race bikes come or have a link installed. its awesome in the whoops. i will never run another bike without a link after i had that JRD no link. rear felt horrible. plus, why do you think KTM sx bikes are junk in the whoops. cause they have no rear link. dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out:devil:



Now nick, who in their right mind would post pics on their company site with a competitors arms and swinger next to the jigs and assembly tables:confused: :confused: :eek2::devil: :blah:

[8686]

Haha!!!! LOL! Love that pic! What a joke.

[8686]

Originally posted by racerx573
I ran dual PEP stabilizers on my Laeger's, lol. Took away the twitchyness for sure, and still turned fast as hell.

Did you guys run dual stick-style stabilizers? What setting did you run the stabilizers on? Did you run both stabilizers on the stiffest setting?

[pdxbigfoot]

now that i have a JRD frame and swinger im having a tough time tracking down some a arms.
From what i have read the JRD arms are very specific (+3.75") is this true??
Or are they exact Roll COPY's???
Joe at JRD is not much help at all...not returning phone calls, emails or even answering the phone at all.
This is getting old!!!!!
I have came to the conclusion that if he doesnt get back to me tomorrow (monday) im going with plan B.
Plan B is as much as i dont want to do it ....i will!!!
ill cut the his arm mounting tabs off and fabricate ones that would allow me to run 450R arms which would open up a world of design options.
What do you guys think??
It seems to me that Joe must have to much money cause hes not really trying to get any of mine.

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by pdxbigfoot
now that i have a JRD frame and swinger im having a tough time tracking down some a arms.
From what i have read the JRD arms are very specific (+3.75") is this true??
Or are they exact Roll COPY's???
Joe at JRD is not much help at all...not returning phone calls, emails or even answering the phone at all.
This is getting old!!!!!
I have came to the conclusion that if he doesnt get back to me tomorrow (monday) im going with plan B.
Plan B is as much as i dont want to do it ....i will!!!
ill cut the his arm mounting tabs off and fabricate ones that would allow me to run 450R arms which would open up a world of design options.
What do you guys think??
It seems to me that Joe must have to much money cause hes not really trying to get any of mine.

To get to the right MX width, your gonna want to run the JRD arms on that chassis. I never tried compairing other narrow frame arms on the JRD quads ive built, i just always used the JRD arms on them. Even with their arms i was never happy with the caster they designed them for and could also never get a camber i was happy with either. I remember right their frames had a ton of rake to them also. Good luck dealing with them also:ermm:

[pdxbigfoot]

I think im going to need alot of luck as far as dealing with JRD. Im pushing a month and a half since contact and i havent made any progress at all.
They have till tomorrow and if i dont hear from them im going to make my own arms, engine mounts, steering stem bearing carrier, and anything else.
My fab guy here would love to have the cash i would spend with JRD in his pocket.

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by pdxbigfoot
I think im going to need alot of luck as far as dealing with JRD. Im pushing a month and a half since contact and i havent made any progress at all.
They have till tomorrow and if i dont hear from them im going to make my own arms, engine mounts, steering stem bearing carrier, and anything else.
My fab guy here would love to have the cash i would spend with JRD in his pocket.

As much as i hate to say it, it probably wouldnt be a bad idea starting over with another brand chassis.

[250Renvy]

Jason,

What motor are you planning on running in this frame?

The reason I ask, is because if you go the route of trying to add 450R a-arms on there, and you are planning on putting a 250R motor in there, you will have issues with the pipe hitting the a-arm.

I had this trouble with my HRE frame because it was a Laeger narrow front style 250R with 450R a-arms but the pipe was an issue. The 450 arms are spaced differently.

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<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/HRE/?action=view&current=250rpipes007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/250Renvy/HRE/250rpipes007.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br />
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[pdxbigfoot]

have to build a custom exhaust. Im going to run my 330 and know for sure that im going to have to relocate a frame tube unless i make the pipe run out the left side and back....that would be wierd!!!!
As much as i would like to run a Roll or other frame i really would like to make this one work as i pretty much got it for nothing and its worth nothing without a-arms.
I also like the "beefyness" of it and im no lightweight.

[800screws]

the guy that originally had spaders R must have realized somehow that it was worth more than he had it listed for, because he wouldn't sell it for the price he had listed...he said now he was going to part it out...so if u search ny's craigslist, u might be able to get the frame and such.....

[thedeatons]

That seems like a lot of work to make a chassis that sucked work with parts you will have to modify.... I dig the starting over idea.

By the way, you don't have to run the old screen door shocks (PEP dampeners)... Just get a CCP rotary stabilizer like I did. Check out my thread with pics on it. The best deal on the market in stabilizers...

James