Shifting problem

[d3ktrix]

Last weekend at the track my bike was hitting false neutral a lot, I think it was mostly between 3rd and 4th.
In the first 30min of riding it did that probably 4 times, then the shifter totally locked up on me.

The bike stayed running fine.
No grinding, clanking or noises of any type.
Bike was stuck in 4th and would not shift up or down while either running or shut off.
The shift lever still had its normal play that it has between the shift paws. But it didn't seem like it could move the shift drum AT ALL.

After about 20min of rocking/riding it around I got it to shift into 5th once, but would not downshift after that.

So I tilted the bike up on its left side and took the right side case cover off, took the basket off and then all of sudden it would shift by hand perfectly fine through all gears. Its like tilting the bike on its side freed it up.
I took apart and looked over all the shifter parts u can get to w/o splitting the center cases and everything looked fine.

I rode it for the rest of the day and everything was perfectly fine.
It wasn't until the end of the next day of riding that it acted up again. The shifter locked up again for a min, then freed up by it self, had to shift it firm though a few gears then was fine again.

While I had the side over off I did find a small piece of debris, not sure if it was a tinny stone or a shard of a gear.
Can't even be sure if it was in the engine before I opened it or fell in while we were working on it.
Figured if there was more it could be jamming something up though.

20 hours ago I rebuild the entire bottom end, replaced every single bearing/seal and crank.

[KEVIN132]

tranny time!:mad:

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by KEVIN132
tranny time!:mad:

What part of it tho is what I need to know.
Want to get a few peoples opinions before I split the cases, the way the problem comes and goes seems weird to me. Not the way Id expect a bent shift fork or something to act.
I'm still hoping it has something to do with the shifter parts under the clutch basket. lol
Really don't want to split those cases again yet, everything was buttoned up so perfect :P

[RIDEREDson]

I added Lucas oil stabilizer to mine and I was getting false neutrals at the track also. Mainly in 3rd gear, It would just go to neutral. It quit though after the 3rd time and hasn't done it since. I think the Lucas was making it slip.

[KEVIN132]

well ive done a few now. it seems to be that the shift forks are probally shot. the shift drum also gets a little wear spot in the area that lets it slip out of 4th...

you must check each gear and if it has rounding at the engagement areas both gears that mesh should be changed..

forks run around $50 and there is 3
shift drum is like $70

all the gears in tranny run around $700

hit up BCS on the main page !! jay is awesome and has always helped us out!!! tell him kevin sent you

:D

[d3ktrix]

Can a bent shift fork cause everything to totally lock up?

I know nothing is worn out of spec because I went though the whole tranny with a mic 20 hours ago. Engagement area of the gears and shift drum all looked like new.
No doubt though that a fork can be bent or a chunk could of fallen out of the drum.

After the shifter locked up the first time, it never false neutral'ed again. Worked 100% perfect until it locked up again.

And it never ever slipped out of a gear.

Thanks for the help so far.

[Butter]

Yo dude, my bro's bike was doing that last year while him and Quinton Barto were riding it. What happened in his was a washer that takes out play, and sets the mesh wound up smashing the "dogs" on the end of the 3rd gear, then broke. So the gear could then walk a little and thus make it jump out of gear. And it only did this from 3rd-4th gear, just like yours BUT his never locked up, so might not be that, but maybe instead of breaking, yours is getting locked in there. But honestly, if ANYTHING has to be replaced, your best bet will be to replace anything suspect in the tranny. No point to doing the least amount possible, just to have something else let go a little later.

[d3ktrix]

Thanks for the input Butter, my main goal is to get this thing going before etown coming up =)

Mine hasn't popped out of a gear yet, only time it false neutral'ed was while shifting. But that was before the lock up happened, and hasn't happened since.

[Butter]

Lol, nice. You got plenty of time for E-Town. Nov. 26th I believe. Whatever the 3rd weekend of the month is. And that's very weird. I would check the shift shaft area under the side case. Could be something there getting locked in place like the spring on the shaft itself getting stuck, or those little spring loaded squares. That sounded intelligent, lol, but thats the only way to describe them. Thats sounds like more of the problem than the actual tranny if it shifts fine, no grinding or anything like that.

[d3ktrix]

Yeah I'm going to take that right side case cover off again and inspect everything better this time.
And will drain the oil into a clean plan to check for debris.

Also I saw on the D6 website that E-Town is have a practice on Oct31st and a race on Nov 1st.
Dunno if its an open practice or not though.

[Butter]

Really? That's news to me. PJ, the guy who runs it has it the 3rd weekend in Nov. so he doesn't interfere with Atco. I work both places so I can believe it. I'll have to check this weekend.

[d3ktrix]

Yeah I herd both dates. The October one is only on the D6 site tho, not on the E-Town site.
On the E-Town site the one in Nov is on the 14th, race on the 15th.
They moved it from the 24th.

[warr72]

Is your bottom end modded to stop the false neutral problem. I believe the gears get ground so they mesh better.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by warr72
Is your bottom end modded to stop the false neutral problem. I believe the gears get ground so they mesh better.

Nah my gears are untouched, that false neut problem was only a few min until the first time it locked up.
I never ever get it normally, and it hasn't happened since the lock up.
Its just the lock ups is whats the problem, the false neutrals came and went.

I cleaned the bike today, ill tear into it tomorrow, being sick as put everything on hold.

Thanks for the help so far.

[warr72]

Did you find the problem yet?

[d3ktrix]

Sadly I haven't even had a chance to tear into it yet, I've been working real late every day this week so far.

[Jason Hall]

I had a problem like that on a friends 05 450r, the problem was the shifter shaft. One of my kids friends stood and bounced on the shifter. From that point on the trans would not shift right. It would randomly get stuck between gears, and hit neutral between 3rd-4th, and 4th-5th. I pulled the shifter shaft out, and found that the fork end that turns the shift drum was twisted and cracked right at the weld that holds the fork to the shaft. I'm not saying this Is whats wrong with yours, but I sure would not split the cases unless I was sure It wasn't external.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Jason Hall
I had a problem like that on a friends 05 450r, the problem was the shifter shaft. One of my kids friends stood and bounced on the shifter. From that point on the trans would not shift right. It would randomly get stuck between gears, and hit neutral between 3rd-4th, and 4th-5th. I pulled the shifter shaft out, and found that the fork end that turns the shift drum was twisted and cracked right at the weld that holds the fork to the shaft. I'm not saying this Is whats wrong with yours, but I sure would not split the cases unless I was sure It wasn't external.

That makes me feel good, because after what Chad said, I have high hopes that it is the shifter shaft that's messed up.
Thanks sharing that.