View Full Version : BCS Performance Products.
I want to hear from people that have tried thier products, the good bad and ugly about them. More specifically, the battery box, precision upper mount bracket, frame reinforcement kit, radiator system upgrade, and race harness.
If you've tried these products tell the truth about them if you had problems say so they can find out....I don't want to hear from people that are trying to gain sponsor points but if you had no problems with thier products then say so.
http://triton.heritagewebdesign.com/~manc22/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=38&sort=20a&page=1&zenid=b153e606c12a585872bb10af76af7a58
Thanks! :D
xrxmxcx
09-09-2009, 05:42 PM
In all honesty they put out some very good products for being 1 year into their R&D with the DS450.
To name a couple of products...
The DS battery box is trick as hell and 10x nicer than any other designs, as it uses rubber grommet/supports and comes with the billet clamp, better positioning for the solenoid, etc...
The precision mount looks super nice, and like all of their parts they machine and CNC everything in house and make some really trick looking stuff
im at the shop pretty often so if you have any questions let me know
yfzracer14
09-09-2009, 05:51 PM
Yeh, Ive bought a bunch of stuff from then and it has been great!
xrxmxcx
09-09-2009, 05:52 PM
hey yfzracer do you have pics of ur graphics and who did them
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
In all honesty they put out some very good products for being 1 year into their R&D with the DS450.
To name a couple of products...
The DS battery box is trick as hell and 10x nicer than any other designs, as it uses rubber grommet/supports and comes with the billet clamp, better positioning for the solenoid, etc...
The precision mount looks super nice, and like all of their parts they machine and CNC everything in house and make some really trick looking stuff
im at the shop pretty often so if you have any questions let me know
yeah I got a few questions, lets start with why they don't put more pics of thier products on the website(they have then since I got the radiator sent to me)? .....and the frame kits why not put on thier website what areas they are reinforceing?...You know I discovered this frame kit right after you sent me pics of your frame. If thier products are as good as you claim, then why did you not mention this kit vs the Walsh??......I'd like to hear as you did w/the Walsh how you think this BCS kit tackles the bending problem you had as well as some of the areas I now know about that need reinforcements and why you are not running it vs the Walsh? :confused:
yfzracer14
09-09-2009, 06:06 PM
epic graphics
google ds 450 epic graphics
www.epicgraphics.net
xrxmxcx
09-09-2009, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by TNT
yeah I got a few questions, lets start with why they don't put more pics of thier products on the website(they have then since I got the radiator sent to me)? .....and the frame kits why not put on thier website what areas they are reinforceing?...You know I discovered this frame kit right after you sent me pics of your frame. If thier products are as good as you claim, then why did you not mention this kit vs the Walsh??......I'd like to hear as you did w/the Walsh how you think this BCS kit tackles the bending problem you had as well as some of the areas I now know about that need reinforcements and why you are not running it vs the Walsh? :confused:
Terry their site is currently being updated as fast as they can with products/and more details/pics..
The BCS frame reinforcement kit is similiar to the ATV-Fourplay kit that uses Billet aluminum brackets to support the upper a-arm mounts more securely and to strengthen them. It is not designed to handle frame bending but they are in the works of making more products as we speak....
blaster99
09-09-2009, 06:41 PM
thumbs up for the harness! no more blowing fusees, and the fan is always on!
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
Terry their site is currently being updated as fast as they can with products/and more details/pics..
The BCS frame reinforcement kit is similiar to the ATV-Fourplay kit that uses Billet aluminum brackets to support the upper a-arm mounts more securely and to strengthen them. It is not designed to handle frame bending but they are in the works of making more products as we speak....
ATV 4-play makes a kit too shows what I know.....Are you talking about the frame right above the upper arm where a hole is for the bolts that go through a thick Z extrusion and frame? Those two holes needs a doubler or local gage increase, some light gage aluminum like .040 thick. That Z-bracket there takes side loads and transfers it between upper arms attach that is dumping too much point load into the frame hole. It's a nasty area to work with, and if you drill more holes in the area to attach doublers it can get weaker. If holes, bolts $ nuts, and doublers are the only choice then they need to be at least 4-6 times the diameter(4D) apart and as small and strong like TI as possible. I heard they use to have a lock-bolt there but don't matter the frame is failing at the hole not the fastener!
I just do not see how anyone but BRP will address this one properly but with a redesign of the frame but I have been known to be wrong before. At least they can properly design a kit to address it as I have said before with thier models. We'll see what they come up with. We have had no problems yet but it would be nice to have some reassurance that is not over priced.
Originally posted by blaster99
thumbs up for the harness! no more blowing fusees, and the fan is always on!
Do you have it installed on your DS and does everything work? I have bought race harness b4 that don't work!... yeah it would be nice and the over size fan they sell to boot. I hate the stock harness and all the BS.......does it get rid of the battery relay?
xrxmxcx
09-09-2009, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by TNT
ATV 4-play makes a kit too shows what I know.....Are you talking about the frame right above the upper arm where a hole is for the bolts that go through a thick Z extrusion and frame? Those two holes needs a doubler or local gage increase, some light gage aluminum like .040 thick. That Z-bracket there takes side loads and transfers it between upper arms attach that is dumping too much point load into the frame. It's a nasty area to work with, and if you drill more holes in the area to attach doublers it can get weaker. If holes, bolts $ nuts, and doublers are the only choice then they need to be at least 4-6 times the diameter(4D) apart and as small as possible. I heard they use to have a lock-bolt there but don't matter the frame is failing at the hole not the fastener!
I just do not see how anyone but BRP will address this one properly but with a redesign of the frame but I have been known to be wrong before. At least they can properly design a kit to address it as I have said before with thier models. We'll see what they come up with. We have had no problems yet but it would be nice to have some reassurance that is not over priced.
You are overthinking it again and it does not require making more holes in the frame or any changes to the stock locations either. Bolt on supports.
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
You are overthinking it again and it does not require making more holes in the frame or any changes to the stock locations either. Bolt on supports.
Amazing you can say that with out knowing the loads being transfered or seeing any long term test but ok whatever! lol! I'll shut up and wait to see what they come up with. :D
yfzracer14
09-09-2009, 06:58 PM
Yeh
I have the ATV Four Play kit.
You have to remove the rivets install the bracket and bolt up.
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
You are overthinking it again and it does not require making more holes in the frame or any changes to the stock locations either. Bolt on supports.
When they come out with this frame kit your so confident in tell them to stand behind it and warrantee a complete refund on the kit and the frame if it don’t work. Also when they update the website have them add the terms and conditions of it. Then I'll buy it.
xrxmxcx
09-09-2009, 07:41 PM
Why don't you call them and give them your input, and see what happens when they laugh in your face about what you just said. Then you can call ATV Fourplay, they will do the same, and so on...
The kit is to reinforce a-arm mounting locations and prevent them from twisting under load. BRP released there own version of it in the "Stage 1" kit, but these are refined, and stronger made of CNC'd billet aluminum.
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
Why don't you call them and give them your input, and see what happens when they laugh in your face about what you just said. Then you can call ATV Fourplay, they will do the same, and so on...
The kit is to reinforce a-arm mounting locations and prevent them from twisting under load. BRP released there own version of it in the "Stage 1" kit, but these are refined, and stronger made of CNC'd billet aluminum.
I wonder if they will laugh as hard as I am laughing at you? What makes you think the billet is stronger?....what type of load is it taking it out? Whats the fatigue life? I know I'm thinking too much again, right? I can show you many designs where billet shown weaker? Please explain? Tell you what I'll do just what you said and ask BCS and give a report of all the questions they could not answer if you want? I thought I said no Sponsor chasers on this thread.....geeez! lol! And no I don't want to spend $1200 on Walsh either to see if it works or not....thats what we got you for XRX.....lol!
Wheres you're partner blaster with the relay answer, does he have the harness on his quad? That harness is expensive! ....$665, I paid $300 for our YAM???
xrxmxcx
09-09-2009, 09:42 PM
I hate to break your heart again, but you don't seem to realize what we are talking about, like YFZracer said ATV-Fourplay makes a similair kit, and it is used to reinforce the a-arm mounts. Not some NASA bull_it that worry's about load and force, because we all know what load and force does. They are made to make the mounting points stronger and ELIMINATE FLEX. And as far as the strength of billet, when you look at your stock DS450, look at where the upper a-arms are mounted, and ask your son if he feels comfortable bolting chromoly long travel a-arms to those tin mounts.
Go back to bed....
Oh yea, and Blaster99 does have the harness on his quads, and I will be running it as well on my practice bike, and race bike.
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
I hate to break your heart again, but you don't seem to realize what we are talking about, like YFZracer said ATV-Fourplay makes a similair kit, and it is used to reinforce the a-arm mounts. Not some NASA bull_it that worry's about load and force, because we all know what load and force does. They are made to make the mounting points stronger and ELIMINATE FLEX. And as far as the strength of billet, when you look at your stock DS450, look at where the upper a-arms are mounted, and ask your son if he feels comfortable bolting chromoly long travel a-arms to those tin mounts.
Go back to bed....
Oh yea, and Blaster99 does have the harness on his quads, and I will be running it as well on my practice bike, and race bike.
XRX those thin walls at the mounts should do well at taking out shear there not the big problem only the way they are tranferring load inherent in the design, not the mounting points themself. The arm as I stated, and I think it is you that does not undertand, is tranferring load through that Z channel to the frame and cracking it at the bolt holes. Now stop telling me I am thinking too much and acting like you know what is going on here and tell me exactly how BCS or ATV four play is going to keep this from happening to my quad? Well I tell you the answer they can't the whole area needs a redesign to transfer load properly and keep weight down.
Sure hope I am not offending the guy that entrusted me with this photo or anyone, but I want this issue out in the open and resolved before I buy a 2010 or any so called high dollar mod kit. Sorry I am not out here to sugar coat things or push a product or gain a sponsorship, I just want my quad to run well and win races and not cost me an arm and a leg in mod kits that don't work in the process. This is a nasty crack, hard to repair, your screwed if it happens to you!
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/DSC023932028Large292.jpg
Harkes2k
09-10-2009, 06:56 AM
They know everything that will break on a DS450.. Because they have broken it! I just put a battery box on mine I will have pics up this afternoon!
blaster99
09-10-2009, 07:51 AM
The harness works, and good too. It gets rid of the neutral, engine, and gas lights, and all the fusees. I'm not sure about the battery relay, I didn't see any relays on it besides the three up front. Hope this helped.
Originally posted by blaster99
The harness works, and good too. It gets rid of the neutral, engine, and gas lights, and all the fusees. I'm not sure about the battery relay, I didn't see any relays on it besides the three up front. Hope this helped.
Sounds scary! Fuses play a part in protecting equipment in case of short and/or bad ground unless I was asleep in my Basic Elec 101 class. EG: Our $700 ECU......:confused:
Harkes2K: When you say "They" I hope you are referring to BRP, they have the design tools and knowledge to fix this properly with out a bunch of bolts on that add weight and may not work in the long haul.
Harkes2k
09-10-2009, 08:58 AM
Nope I mean bcs... If brp had built a quad that didn't have problems that would have been great but they didn't... Its a great quad but it DEF has its issues!
Originally posted by Harkes2k
Nope I mean bcs... If brp had built a quad that didn't have problems that would have been great but they didn't... Its a great quad but it DEF has its issues!
Well I agree and disagree.....If you were to look at most quads most do not come out perfect in the first year. Many of the steel ones need aftermarket gussets or people without the proper tools trying to redesign without the loads model. Loads models are only as good as what is put into them, thats usually why there are problems in the first year or two. It takes some feild testing to capture all the different riding styles, tracks, etc, in most cases to discover where the load model is flawed and when that data becomes available it's best to go back to the model input the new loads and redesign. After market companies do not have this capability since they did not model the quad in the first place moreless spend significant R&D money, so they are at a disadvantage. For them to be successfull, or try, they have to design something usually conservatively maybe adding alot of weight in not the best places that may have effects on other structure and the handling then like BRP it has to be feild test and more info will become available in time. I have seen this first hand w/steel frames that fail due to gusseting, after market parts some machined strong that fail, and look at the YFRs and it's issues. Beleive me these OEM's although they are not perfect are no dummies either. I personally hope Warnert comes out with a structural mod kit that takes care of the issues at hand and in the long term BRP redesigns their frame.
xrxmxcx
09-10-2009, 10:50 AM
TNT I have yet to see a post from you that didn't pick apart anything anyone else say's, or a product that you think is unworthy.
If you have so many great ideas why are you not opening up your own shop instead of bagging on other brands. I swear you started this thread to have people post, and then just pick them apart with senseless crap...
Whats wrong with the a-arm reinforcements? On the ATV you posted, it has the BRP mounts, are they wrong for making them also...?
The battery box, whats wrong with that now? Is it the fact that you went out and bought a LSR one thats the same price for a less quality product?
Seriously man you ask for honest answers and you just continue to point fingers...
Tell me how IMO BRP is the best equipped to do frame mods is sensless crap? You agreed with me on the that so if the shoe fits wear it....Boy at the beginning of the season you were a polite respect fellow now with some know it all attitude. I see BCS is a supporter at your sig so I don't expect you to say anything factually bad about there products. The batt box, precision mount, radiator (pricey, I can get a PWR cap and weld it on make a seat bracket for a lot less) all look good from PICs.
I really wish these forums where a place to go to find the pro's a con's about products and company's where people were not out here just to impress and defend their sponsors but it's just not the case. Not worth fighting over maybe I need to move on.
Good luck XRX and everyone , maybe I'll see ya all next season if I buy another Can-Am. :D
xrxmxcx
09-10-2009, 02:02 PM
I'm sorry but you don't show any sort of understanding when someone makes a post. If you look back at what I said, the BRP support for the a-arms employs the same concept as the ones made by BCS/ATV Fourplay. I don't know if you don't understand what I'm saying but it is pretty straightforward. Its not a fact of you trying to school me in how BRP is the only company that can redesign the frame (which is always going to be true) but they are not the only company that can properly make an a-arm support bracket. It doesn't take rocket science and an airplane designer to realize that the mounts for the upper a-arms were weak, and the AFTERMARKET segment filled the gap, until BRP made a redesign and changed it on their 2009's. I admit the gap was probably filled as their race teams saw a need for a support, which was made by the aftermarket, and eventually made its way to BRP as a update when they saw it was neccessary.
I don't know how or when you got your bike but I have the parts that come with the racer support program, and some parts from the race dept. and the design and concept is the same. Take the BCS frame kit and put it next to the BRP mounts, same design, different material. And to make you feel even better the plates that BRP sent me were not AL! Goes to show also that BRP isnt worried about AL/STEEL contact!
Just giving you some more food for your brain :devil:
yfzracer14
09-10-2009, 03:23 PM
I am not a racer who gets support. I buy what I feel is good for me. Ive used BCS products on my yfz and can am and they make very good products. ATV four play also makes great products. I dont have any walsh stuff anymore but their stuff is some of the best also. I am running four play arms, gussetts, stem bearing relocater ( to reduce bump steer )
and havent had any issues. Im very happy w/ their products.
ScottB125
09-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Terry,
That crack in the pic, is that going through the bolt hole?
Originally posted by ScottB125
Terry,
That crack in the pic, is that going through the bolt hole?
Hey man you going to Village Creek North vs South, Texas race? I am flying out of Charleston, SC meeting my son Trever there coming from Wichita. He's working on the DS tonight trying to figure out why we blew a head gasket, not sure we got the sleeve in right or it got real hot or what, but we're getting ready training hard to beat all the those texas pro dog's so watch out! lol! it will be good training for the the A-Class Can-am champ we plan taking home next season so watch double out..... :D Anyway I'm staying with a buddy probably go to Fort Worth and look at all the pretty ladies, look me up we're #101.
yes looks that way to me....I was thinking about this crack today and think what I will do is weld two doublers on the frame in this area about .040 thick made of 6061 aluminum since it welds good. I will take the welds up past the bolt holes a good inch on each side of the hole redrilling the hole through my doublers on ea side common to the bolt head and nut then shot peen the weld to relieve stresses. As soon as I see the quad in TX I plan on looking at it close and producing a drawing and will post a mod kit of my own for the twist as well for the poor or racer on a budget that does not have $200- $1200 or whatever BCS and walsh wants. Stay tuned! In the mean time anyone have any pics of frame cracks send them my way(Terrylport@yahoo.com) so I know where all the weak areas are, I already have a few. Terry
xrxmxcx
09-11-2009, 07:51 PM
Why waste so much time and effort trying to fix that when you can try and replace the front frame spar?
IMO you will probably just make it weaker, and create a mess when trying to repair it and have it remain the same contour/dimension.
SixRB6
09-11-2009, 07:58 PM
Ill give you what you want to hear...
BCS is horrible... I have been ripped off by them and I know of 3 other guys that have been RIPPED by them.
Anything from BS beat frames that they turn around and sell for "great shape 4hours on it". Or another friend who took his bike there to get parts and a few things and gets NAILED for $7,000 to $8,000 and then the motor was beat...
They think they are a great shop cuz they support NEATV but man if NEATV knew half this sh*t that went down I am sure they would be proud to have them as the sponsor. There are plenty other reputable shops that are not out there screwing us racers over...
Originally posted by SixRB6
Ill give you what you want to hear...
BCS is horrible... I have been ripped off by them and I know of 3 other guys that have been RIPPED by them.
Anything from BS beat frames that they turn around and sell for "great shape 4hours on it". Or another friend who took his bike there to get parts and a few things and gets NAILED for $7,000 to $8,000 and then the motor was beat...
They think they are a great shop cuz they support NEATV but man if NEATV knew half this sh*t that went down I am sure they would be proud to have them as the sponsor. There are plenty other reputable shops that are not out there screwing us racers over...
EXACTLY sad thing is some people don't have a clue.......Good for you for knowing! Those doublers I mentioned will cost about $10, thats all it should take cheap sheet metal and a littlle home made elboe grease. :D
blaster99
09-11-2009, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by SixRB6
Ill give you what you want to hear...
BCS is horrible... I have been ripped off by them and I know of 3 other guys that have been RIPPED by them.
Anything from BS beat frames that they turn around and sell for "great shape 4hours on it". Or another friend who took his bike there to get parts and a few things and gets NAILED for $7,000 to $8,000 and then the motor was beat...
They think they are a great shop cuz they support NEATV but man if NEATV knew half this sh*t that went down I am sure they would be proud to have them as the sponsor. There are plenty other reputable shops that are not out there screwing us racers over...
maybe you should call jay and talk to him about your bad experiences, I'm sure he didn't screw you over, he isn't like that.
I'll be back w/some frame mods when I return from TX to prevent this sort of thing from happen and they will be cheap as good or better than any, just ignor the BS that people that know very little about structure but claim to, common I been doing this for twenty five years and don't want to argue with some know it all snot nose kid out here. ...lol!:devil:
Geez tonight I designed about 20 repairs to structures alone......:D tomorrow 20 more, sunday 20 more, monday 40 more, excetra, excetra....lol! :D :cool: Probably more in one day than BCS all year.....lol!
SixRB6
09-11-2009, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by blaster99
maybe you should call jay and talk to him about your bad experiences, I'm sure he didn't screw you over, he isn't like that.
Again not just me I know of at least 3 others...I did call and they did not or would not do anything... To be honest even if they would have done something the damage is done. Why would I want them to try and sucker me in to staying with them to get me again? I don't think so.
I am in business and I do not screw people over then say oh let me help you and make it right... That is BS PERIOD
xrxmxcx
09-11-2009, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by TNT
I'll be back w/some frame mods when I return from TX to prevent this sort of thing from happen and they will be cheap as good or better than any, just ignor the BS that people that know very little about structure but claim to, common I been doing this for twenty five years and don't want to argue with some know it all snot nose kid out here. ...lol!:devil:
Geez tonight I designed about 20 repairs to structures alone......:D tomorrow 20 more, sunday 20 more, monday 40 more, excetra, excetra....lol! :D :cool: Probably more in one day than BCS all year.....lol!
I want to see your so called "fix". Then we will all sit here and laugh at you about how ridiculous it turns out and how your superior to people who have been in business for years now. Airplane's aren't ATV's, sorry.
ScottB125
09-12-2009, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by TNT
Hey man you going to Village Creek North vs South, Texas race? I am flying out of Charleston, SC meeting my son Trever there coming from Wichita. He's working on the DS tonight trying to figure out why we blew a head gasket, not sure we got the sleeve in right or it got real hot or what, but we're getting ready training hard to beat all the those texas pro dog's so watch out! lol! it will be good training for the the A-Class Can-am champ we plan taking home next season so watch double out..... :D Anyway I'm staying with a buddy probably go to Fort Worth and look at all the pretty ladies, look me up we're #101.
yes looks that way to me....I was thinking about this crack today and think what I will do is weld two doublers on the frame in this area about .040 thick made of 6061 aluminum since it welds good. I will take the welds up past the bolt holes a good inch on each side of the hole redrilling the hole through my doublers on ea side common to the bolt head and nut then shot peen the weld to relieve stresses. As soon as I see the quad in TX I plan on looking at it close and producing a drawing and will post a mod kit of my own for the twist as well for the poor or racer on a budget that does not have $200- $1200 or whatever BCS and walsh wants. Stay tuned! In the mean time anyone have any pics of frame cracks send them my way(Terrylport@yahoo.com) so I know where all the weak areas are, I already have a few. Terry
I'll come by and say "What up!" Doubt I will be racing though.
I was wondering if you couldn't sleeve that bolt hole too.
BCS Performance
09-12-2009, 08:45 AM
TNT,
We can say that our products can definitely help with the frame problems the DS450 has. Does that mean that it will completely fix the problem, No.? But the products we are making are definitely helping the situation. As far as the $200 price, That is not just the front frame piece. The $200 is a complete kit for the DS450 that strenthens the entire frame. We do offer just the front piece which is $50. We are working very hard to get the products pictures loaded as quickley as possible.
If there is any advice I could offer, Is that when we were struggling with the front frame rails breaking like in your picture, we found the problem to be that we were over torqing the bolts that we were replacing the rivets with. Once we started torqing the bolts to 21nm we have not had a problem since. I do know that this is mostly the problem. So whether or not a reinforcement kit we made was even necessary I'm not sure. We do sell one if needed.
I'm willing to help anyone with any questions they may have about the can-am, if I have the answer I will tell you. If I can't answer the question I will be glad to help you find someone who can.
Thanks!!
Originally posted by ScottB125
I'll come by and say "What up!" Doubt I will be racing though.
I was wondering if you couldn't sleeve that bolt hole too. Scott,
We use freeze plugs (busing/sleeve) in many applications, one that comes to mind is when someone has drilled a figure 8(or snowman), we can clean up the hole(s) and use a nitrogen busing insert (plug), the nitrogen contracts the plug so it will expand in the hole. Have to careful still as in this case since the structure that the plug goes through has to have enough cross sectional area to keep it from failing. In some cases additional doublers may be required.
With that said, in the case (see pic) a plug will not help maybe make it worse if the hole has to be enlarged to install it. The problem here is the design, the hole left little frame to take out the shear/tension that failed it. A better design would have been to use smaller bolts, say 2-3, and distribute the point load out to more fasteners up and down the frame. The Z extrusion(FYI: you can tell it's an extrusion guys by the square outer corner if it were round it be bent sheet metal) that goes from side to side should have been designed to pick up smaller fasteners common to the frame too. The Z extrusion looks quite a bit thicker than the frame too which adds to the problem. The area is tight and to fix properly the whole area needs to be reconsidered.
Soon as I see the quad and take some dimension I’ll post some CATIA drawings of an easy cheap fix or preventative mod repair. I’ll also provide a full explanation as to why I think the repair will work.
Terry
PS: See ya in a couple of weeks.
MRX: I just died the grey out my hair last week and now it’s back thanks to you hope your happy! LOL!
BCS: Please don’t misunderstand me I am not bashing your products I have not seen them (looking fwd to pics). Thanks for being honest with your development issues and finding's that is what I was looking for, I know first hand how difficult structural design is. Keep up the good work it’s good to have options.
Originally posted by ScottB125
I was wondering if you couldn't sleeve that bolt hole too.
Hey man I was looking at some spec's today on this idea and I may have ruled it out too soon. Theres is a knock down factor for the frame, a knock down factor takes the load carrying capability down a percentage when a bushing is installed compared to homogenous structure. I need to see the hole, meat left, and find a bushing, but this might be an option to take the fastener diameter down and move some load to the bushing instead of the frame, and it's an easy do-it-yourself fix maybe not needing liquid nitro. Good idea! :D
xrxmxcx
09-12-2009, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by SixRB6
Again not just me I know of at least 3 others...I did call and they did not or would not do anything... To be honest even if they would have done something the damage is done. Why would I want them to try and sucker me in to staying with them to get me again? I don't think so.
I am in business and I do not screw people over then say oh let me help you and make it right... That is BS PERIOD
I doubt half of that happened, and when you saw the post about BCS, you decided to spill the beans and exaggerate the hell out of everything. They sell many parts and part out bikes all the time, and always stand behind what they sell. I will put money on the fact that you and your boys show up and want top of the line parts and motors, and run a race motor for a whole season and when it blows up due to lack of maintenance, there we go! It's all the at the fault of the builder!
99.99% of the time in this sport it happens, you want HP and spare every penny for that and can't afford a $4.00 quart of oil!
xrxmxcx
09-12-2009, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by TNT
Hey man I was looking at some spec's today on this idea and I may have ruled it out too soon. Theres is a knock down factor for the frame, a knock down factor takes the load carrying capability down a percentage when a bushing is installed compared to homogenous structure. I need to see the hole, meat left, and find a bushing, but this might be an option to take the fastener diameter down and move some load to the bushing instead of the frame, and it's an easy do-it-yourself fix maybe not needing liquid nitro. Good idea! :D
Again, based on your religion to BRP making frame parts and designs, why not just order the damaged part and forget about your liquid nitrogen dream. Overkill for a replacement frame spar that you can change out in 20 minutes.
PN# 705 201 061 ;)
SixRB6
09-12-2009, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
I doubt half of that happened, and when you saw the post about BCS, you decided to spill the beans and exaggerate the hell out of everything. They sell many parts and part out bikes all the time, and always stand behind what they sell. I will put money on the fact that you and your boys show up and want top of the line parts and motors, and run a race motor for a whole season and when it blows up due to lack of maintenance, there we go! It's all the at the fault of the builder!
99.99% of the time in this sport it happens, you want HP and spare every penny for that and can't afford a $4.00 quart of oil!
Obviously you are an uneducated moron who sits on these boards and think they know everything. Not one part of what I stated is exaggerated. I know for one my motor will not be in their hands ever. I like running in front without the DNF's. And I can assure you I can afford a quart of oil... Come see me at Walden buddy and we can discuss this since your a forum tough guy. I am not hard to find...
xrxmxcx
09-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Right on with that one guy! I'm a highly uneducated moron that doesn't know anything.
Talk all you want but until you explain what happened I don't have much to say. It's standard and everyone has their gripes but I was just stating that you didn't say much besides they took your money, but what business doesn't!
xrxmxcx
09-12-2009, 10:28 PM
What's wrong with feeding the points of products that you believe in and use?
I don't know why your so upset but after hearing it from the supplier you seem to understand more what they are offering.
No one says you have to use a BCS product, but what they offer is a quality product at a more then reasonable price. Can't really argue that as we all know that the parts market for custom item's like they make is scarce for the DS.
Sorry I have gotten everyone's panties up in a bunch, but after working on these bikes for the last year I'd like to say I know more than the average guy, but there's always more to learn, such as airplane design and 109328234932 processes that TNT will someday incorporate into the ATV scene.
:devil:
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
What's wrong with feeding the points of products that you believe in and use?
I don't know why your so upset but after hearing it from the supplier you seem to understand more what they are offering.
No one says you have to use a BCS product, but what they offer is a quality product at a more then reasonable price. Can't really argue that as we all know that the parts market for custom item's like they make is scarce for the DS.
Sorry I have gotten everyone's panties up in a bunch, but after working on these bikes for the last year I'd like to say I know more than the average guy, but there's always more to learn, such as airplane design and 109328234932 processes that TNT will someday incorporate into the ATV scene.
:devil:
There you go again and I wonder if you even realize how dumb you sound and how bad you are making youself and BCS look?????
Originally posted by TNT
There you go again and I wonder if you even realize how dumb you sound and how bad you are making youself and BCS look?????
XRX sorry I was so hard on you last night, what I get for getting on the computer after a few beers! Very imature of me and out of character. I apologize to the site too. :cool:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xrxmxcx
[B]What's wrong with feeding the points of products that you believe in and use?
I don't know why your so upset but after hearing it from the supplier you seem to understand more what they are offering.
No one says you have to use a BCS product, but what they offer is a quality product at a more then reasonable price. Can't really argue that as we all know that the parts market for custom item's like they make is scarce for the DS.
Sorry I have gotten everyone's panties up in a bunch, but after working on these bikes for the last year I'd like to say I know more than the average guy, bu
extremeblastr
09-26-2009, 06:29 PM
everybody just ignore mr. corliss aka xrxmxcx, his bikes don't break because he never rides em hard and his attitude probably has something to do with the spoiled life he leads.
xrxmxcx
09-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by extremeblastr
everybody just ignore mr. corliss aka xrxmxcx, his bikes don't break because he never rides em hard and his attitude probably has something to do with the spoiled life he leads.
...and who are you to judge me or my life? I know you post on here 24/7 but do I actually know you, and do you really know me?
:rolleyes:
extremeblastr
09-28-2009, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
...and who are you to judge me or my life? I know you post on here 24/7 but do I actually know you, and do you really know me?
:rolleyes:
i know of you and have met you on a few occasions, oh and as far me cruising the boards so much well my bad for having a job where i have so much extra time i don't know what to do with it.
xrxmxcx
09-28-2009, 09:15 AM
Don't know you, and never met/heard of you sorry. I think its a little ignorant to be running your mouth about stuff when you have no insight to everyone's lives. My advice is to keep your mouth shut unless you have something valid to say.
I guess it's my fault for having a good job and being ahead of the game, when most young adults are spending there time broke and on their *** all day.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by BCS Performance
TNT,
We can say that our products can definitely help with the frame problems the DS450 has. Does that mean that it will completely fix the problem, No.? But the products we are making are definitely helping the situation. As far as the $200 price, That is not just the front frame piece. The $200 is a complete kit for the DS450 that strenthens the entire frame. We do offer just the front piece which is $50. We are working very hard to get the products pictures loaded as quickley as possible.
If there is any advice I could offer, Is that when we were struggling with the front frame rails breaking like in your picture, we found the problem to be that we were over torqing the bolts that we were replacing the rivets with. Once we started torqing the bolts to 21nm we have not had a problem since. I do know that this is mostly the problem. So whether or not a reinforcement kit we made was even necessary I'm not sure. We do sell one if needed.
I'm willing to help anyone with any questions they may have about the can-am, if I have the answer I will tell you. If I can't answer the question I will be glad to help you find someone who can.
Thanks!!
When are we going to see more photo's of your products on your website, especially the front arm mounts? I'd like to see it installed on a 09 please email some to Terrylport@yahoo.com. Thanks! Terry
extremeblastr
09-29-2009, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
Don't know you, and never met/heard of you sorry. I think its a little ignorant to be running your mouth about stuff when you have no insight to everyone's lives. My advice is to keep your mouth shut unless you have something valid to say.
I guess it's my fault for having a good job and being ahead of the game, when most young adults are spending there time broke and on their *** all day.
:rolleyes:
theres a difference between running my mouth and voicing an opinion that your validating with your stuck up douchebag attitude ;)
joeyds450x
09-29-2009, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by extremeblastr
theres a difference between running my mouth and voicing an opinion that your validating with your stuck up douchebag attitude ;)
LOL.... WOW
SixRB6
09-29-2009, 02:35 PM
We are off topic so i will bring it back...
So BCS Strikes again! These guys are amazing and how they love screwing the racers who support them over and over again...
If you saw my post before you know they just cream everyone that they deal with. Well I have another story for you guys and the public that uses they need to wake up. This guy spends and spent big bucks with them. They did the old "well this had to be done, we forgot about this" and padded the bill. Then to top it off after spending hundreds and the last time on the last quad thousands with them they have the balls to tell him the forgot about the $12 start button they wired in!!!!!!
Un friggin believable... Wake up people there are MUCH better shops out there...
xrxmxcx
09-29-2009, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by extremeblastr
theres a difference between running my mouth and voicing an opinion that your validating with your stuck up douchebag attitude ;)
I know since your the one calling the names it makes me the one at blame. Next time you run into me let's hear your "opinions" when your not hiding behind the computer screen. Me and TNT both know what was said and both understand that bul****ting happens and we're over it. There's no need for your piece of mind in this thread.
extremeblastr
09-29-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
I know since your the one calling the names it makes me the one at blame. Next time you run into me let's hear your "opinions" when your not hiding behind the computer screen. Me and TNT both know what was said and both understand that bul****ting happens and we're over it. There's no need for your piece of mind in this thread.
and theres no need for you to be a stuck up dick.just so you know next time before you call someone out you should make sure you know what your getting into because i'd gladly come visit you at jolly but i'm not looking for a lifetime ban from neatv or to have my rights read to me because you can't take it like man. you weren't bull****ting you were acting like an ahole and calling someone out because they were questioning thats right not putting down questioning the quality of your sponsors products and you took a defensive stance for no reason and gave no facts as to why you adamantly supported them other than that they take care of YOU which is not a group experience its YOUR experience. seems to me that every time you don't have the information requested you try to put down everyone else instead of getting the answers.
xrxmxcx
09-29-2009, 09:41 PM
I must say everyone has their different experiences with different companies and products. I have heard the horror stories about BCS, but it's always they took my money, and it ends at that with vague details. 2 years ago I happened to send my head out to one of the most reputable companies in the country for a $495.00 porting job, and got it back with a bill of $985.00. Sometimes you get what's coming to you unfortunately. If anyone has any gripes it's out of my hands but the best thing I can recommend is to get in touch with Jay or Donald. TNT if your looking into the cooling setup we are swapping one of my bikes over to the gravity feed and I'll let you know how it works. Just got the bike back together in time to start disecting the other. :o
Originally posted by xrxmxcx
TNT if your looking into the cooling setup we are swapping one of my bikes over to the gravity feed and I'll let you know how it works.
My question is why don't they put photo's of all thier products on thier website? Last we heard weeks ago is they are working on it. How long does it take to upload photo's? I'd really like to see the frame kit, I'm more concerned right now about the fwd arm mounts and frame.
They were nice enough to send me photo's of the cooling system, radiator looks good but I wish they had a pic of the larger fan install?? Does it get in the way of the Precision or anything else we need to know to get this fan in? is it harder to get the motor out or work on the quad? Anything we got to move can't put below it?
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/radiator.jpg
Here's what they said you get for $695.
Originally posted by BCS Performance
The kit we sell really is well priced for what you are receiving, the kit includes
Radiator
New larger fan higher flow
Seat bracket
New overflow bottle
CV4 hose kit
Inline cooler
I've talked to CV4 before and they do not claim thier hoses drop temps just prolong hose life and the inline cooler about 2 deg F drop at best.
Is the lower pic the frame seat bracket or what the heck is that thing lol, looks beefy how much does it weigh?
Is the big fan always on? If so does it drain start up power from the batt? Whats the draw?
What do they mean by "new overflow bottle" I thought this kit eliminates it?
Yeah I'd like to know how it goes in hot weather. How much of a temp drop you got and we can expect for $695? For that kind of $ I'd expect a good drop.
I did talk Motowork's they came up with a cheap drain off the existing bottle that pukes fluid to the ground. Guy said it works pretty good. Seen it a LL, $5 part you get at the hardware store. I guess they don't remove the bottle nor does Warnert practice quads just national pro race quads.....makes ya wonder if it's worth it?
xrxmxcx
09-30-2009, 06:09 AM
Out of everything in the kit I have most of the basics to do the swap. When I scoped out the larger fan added in it does not appear to have any space constructions and would not affect the precision mount. While it is larger it covers mre surface space, but is about the same depth wise. As of right now if I were you I would look into doing the swap the basic way first.
Adding a radiator cap is easy and basic, straight forward weld on with an expansion drain on it.
Go to your local polaris dealership and buy a overflow bottle from a Polaris predator atv. You use that as a new bottle attached in an upright position using suitable hose and it allows the coolant to expand and overflow, but at the same time be sucked back into the system if contraction occurs. Nice thing about this is we don't piss anymore of that high dollar engine ice on the ground anymore.
The large mount shown in the picture is the new front seat mount, but isn't as large as it appears. Really nice piece but your other option is the plastic motoworks one....
Out of anything in the complete swap the biggest differecne is going from a pressurized cooling system to one that allows it to expand and contract nit under pressure anymore.
I will agree the stock style cooling setup works well but on our race motor we are looking to simplify it and make it workbetter. The idea of one line to the radiator, one line back with a overflow bottle is ease on the mind that you won't loose coolant somewhere in the mess of hoses you don't see all the time.
TNT one last thing did you remove the thermostat on your bike?
BCS Performance
09-30-2009, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by SixRB6
We are off topic so i will bring it back...
So BCS Strikes again! These guys are amazing and how they love screwing the racers who support them over and over again...
If you saw my post before you know they just cream everyone that they deal with. Well I have another story for you guys and the public that uses they need to wake up. This guy spends and spent big bucks with them. They did the old "well this had to be done, we forgot about this" and padded the bill. Then to top it off after spending hundreds and the last time on the last quad thousands with them they have the balls to tell him the forgot about the $12 start button they wired in!!!!!!
Un friggin believable... Wake up people there are MUCH better shops out there...
The real story, now normally I do not respond to this stuff but this has to be clarified. This guy calls my shop and wants us to lower his subframe, and cut his wire harness. So we did, then in the meantime wants us to knock off 30% in $1200 worth of parts he ordered so WE DID!, next he wanted us to install his intake, adjust his front end, dyno tune his bike, machine parts for his exhaust, install the wire harness and subframe, all the plastics and overnight a intake tube from Kawasaki, and also a front chain slide, Oh yeah and install the chain and swingarm as well. Now I don't know what the problem is here because we did all of the above including cutting the subframe and stripping the harness for $600!!!!! Now if that is striking again then I do not know how anyone in business would stay in business?!?!? Oh yeah which he never paid for yet either cause he said he would send me a check??? SO just so everyone knows I worked on the bike and did not get paid I'm the one who screwed this guy over.
Oh yeah we also did all this in two days and transported his bike to the race so he could RACE!!!!!!! Man we are dirt bags...........
XRX that was a good last post, I learned a few things I did not know. Extremblaster made some good points in his last post you apparently listened to, although I did not agree with his initial approach. Now maybe you two and Sixrb6 can bump knuckles and put it behind ya. NEATV is a powerful organization in this sport and does not need the animosity.
We can find dirt on just about any company in the US in any industry, with regard to the DS be grateful BCS and the few others are aboard to offer parts. I am sure like any auto or quad company pleasing everyone will be impossible!
I found BCS’s responses to my questions to be honest and forth right, they unveiled their issues and have a plan to correct them as with their frame mod kit development. I have been around structures long enough to know that it’s not easy and time is needed to develop, especially in the aftermarket.
Now back to the topic at hand which is about BCS products not service.
I’d like to know the answer to the key question of the BCS coolant replacement system, that is what temp drop are you seeing? XRX there a lot of things we can do to “simplify” things on the DS but the questions is, is it worth it? In this case $695? The whole idea behind getting rid of the recovery tank is it’s close to the engine and can induce heat. I put heat reflective tape on mine common to the engine which helps a little. If you have another recovery tank I would think it would have to be the same size as stock and again mounted by the engine which leads us back to the problem at hand. That is why I want to know how effective this kit is and what temp drop you got?
As far as the seat bracket plastic is not the answer, I had envisioned something far less complicated like a sheet metal hat section, that’s all that’s needed I don’t get this big billet block of BCS or whatever it’s made of can’t tell? Hows that working out?
Yes we did remove the thermostat.
Thanks!
Terry
BCS: Sent you a PM.
yfzracer14
09-30-2009, 04:48 PM
why do u remove the t-stat? for temp sensing purposes?
Originally posted by yfzracer14
why do u remove the t-stat? for temp sensing purposes?
I didn't see the benefit of it, it's made of plastic and can crack, it opens up at 70F I think it is. We got a brass elboe and took it out.
Whats interesting to me is we were running a blown head gasket @ LL which can build pressure in the coolant system and restrict flow from what I understand and when we hooked up to Budds were running temps in the low 200's. Go figure, so the existing coolant systems seems to be working well I guess? The Warnert team from everything to louvers and radiator cap on thier race quads got the idea from bikes and wanted to run them such as. What the actually benefit and need is I still do not understand?
xrxmxcx
09-30-2009, 06:48 PM
TNT I have a stock hose setup that we are going to test with and disect before we use the cv4 hoses. Planning on picking up a temp gauge or better yet nabbing our thermal gun from the shop before I head to the track.
It might take a little time but we are going to configure the cooling system stock, and compare it to the style that is used with the BCS kit. We used this style cooling on the hybrid YZ444's Ive built and it works awesome.
Out of everything the noticeable thing is not having the system puke engine ice like the boys at Warnert were referring to with that "fitting" you can install. I'd say 80% of racers will not need these modifications but in the end temperature affects horsepower even if it seems insignificant.
Last but not least the price tag seems reasonable when you factor in getting a complete new radiator, billett online coolers, fan, mount, hoses, etc. I picked up another radiator at the dealership last week and they aren't cheap even with support from the dealership so some say it's reasonable but it depends what you want. I figure at the end it might not hurt to have a spare radiator anyways.
Getting tough typing on the iPhone so I'll post later. TNT I will PM you shortly when I get in.
XRX, that be great if you would do that for us, compare temp reading of the stock vs BCS cooling systems.
PS: You know guy's there an interesting thread w/ John Houser on the caster issue on the YFZr in the Steering and Suspension section of the these forums I am participating in that reminds me a little of this one. We have dealt w/Houser for years and have been sponsored by them for years and the reason we stick with them is there willingness to take constructive critism and ask for feild advice. I can throw anything at the man good or bad which I have in this thread and he has good answers and explainations, none of my questions go unanswered and he's open and willing to listen to new ideas as crazy as they may be (IE: Spindle fix)...Also he admits his shortcoming's of the past as with his tri-trac development and has corrective action. He can also back his products with sound technical data and test results and when he does not have test results he is the first to tell you on public forums and ask for help, even let you try the product risk free, etc......Kind of company I love doing business with and representing. :D
BCS Performance
10-01-2009, 06:44 AM
The cooling system with all the components you will see a drop of 20 degrees. Is that a lot for $695? Well honestly I would hope to see more. But we were not looking at only the temperature drop we were trying to simplify the system. I know that with all the racing we do, we are not looking to DNF over a broken hose or whatever the case may be. I think that $695 is hard to justify for anyone to spend on a radiator is tough. But you have to look at the reliability issues. I can say that it’s a good option for someone who needs a new radiator. Then part of the money is justifiable. Don't forget these are all brand new parts and it does not have to be done that way. Anybody can very well send their radiator in to have it modified and that would be a lot more cost effective. For $100 you can have a cap installed on your radiator and the new mounting brackets welded to your radiator for the fan. As far as the coolant overflow bottle goes, we mount one on the side frame rail to give the bike the option of having the fluid to use if needed. Let’s keep in mind that the overflow bottle is only for that reason, If the bike is tuned right and is not running to hot then it will never be used :cool: . And that black mount is for the seat and unfortunately our website guy takes forever to upload stuff to our site. That is not the one you will receive, the one we sell is an aluminum sheet metal part that is bent to the right shape and is much lighter. This one in the picture above was a proto type and was the very first one we made for a race we were going to back in April :devil: The new one is much nicer, and I can assure you pictures will be uploaded very soon.
Excellent response! Thanks BCS! You know 20 deg drop in 100+ deg weather in high humidity can mean alot more than in 70 deg and 50% humidity. I wonder if you got rid of the bottle all together how much more you'd see, whats the price of having the coolant bottle onboard?
Hey if your up to it and no pressure from me this time lol promise I'd like to hear about your race wire harness like what electronic components it removes and the reasoning behind it. Now thats an area I'd be more prone to invest money in to simplify. I hate relays and know they go out often on this quad as w/others.
BCS Performance
10-01-2009, 03:52 PM
What do you mean having the coolant bottle on board? I'm confused?
Thanks
BCS Performance
10-01-2009, 04:07 PM
Wire harness,
We remove all of the componets that are not nessacary; the stock wire harness has reverse stuff built into it which we remove. The headlights and taillights, all the fuse blocks are removed, voltage regulator is removed, all the headlight switches are removed, and all the clutch and brake safety wiring is removed. We stripped a harness because of reliability issues as well. It seems like whenever the bike was washed or was in allot of moisture we would have fuse issues. Now we don’t just go in there and remove fuses, part of the harness is re-wired so they are no longer needed. It is completely safe and poses no threat to the harness. We do add two of our own fuses into the harness one for the fan and one for the main power to ensure should there ever be a short it will not melt down. Having the fan full time has not caused any issues for us or anyone that we have done them for. The only problem we have encountered is when you turn the key on the fan does come on immediately so if someone forgot to turn their key off they may have a problem with a dead battery :D . The harness is simplified quite a bit and is extremely noticeable when you get it back. Keep in mind you do not have to have the fan full time and it can still be stripped with leaving the fan the way it was. As far as relays being taken out we are in the process of testing that right now. We have done two wire harnesses with removing two of the relays. They are working so far but it is nothing I would like to put on the market yet. However we have done over 50 harnesses with the relays staying and there has been no complaints yet ;)
Sorry about my aircraft terminology, what I meant by "on board" is on the quad at all... Having it anywhere by the engine is a heat path in my mind anyway, how much is the question? To me reducing the operating temp of the engine by eleimnating the recovery tank is more important than loosing coolant puked to the ground and having to fill after every race. Nice thing about this product by the way it sounds is you guy's can design a system to the want of the racer. If we want to remove the coolant bottle all together you can help us accomplish that.
Wire harness sounds great and that was my concern removing fuses that protect equipment like the ECU and wire. Be nice if you could remove the fan and fuel pump relay and while your at it get rid of the battery - Ha! Guess the fuel pump needs power for start-up somehow? Does it have a push button start and get rid of the handle bar clusters?
Then when ya got all that figured out I'll take a kick-start order to go! :blah:
Do me a favor bud get me one of those oil nozzles soon I need to get our bike running so I can buy all this other stuff from ya, as you know it hasn't ran good all season. :devil:
grannysleeper
10-03-2009, 08:54 PM
Hey TNT, just a little info on how the recovery tank works...
It should not affect temperature one way or the other, as coolant does not actually "flow" through it. As the coolant in the radiator heats up, it expands and builds pressure as you know, and this extra volume needs somewhere to go. In the old days, it would just puke onto the ground, and the radiator wasn't filled to the top in order to allow a little expansion room. The recovery tank is there to catch this fluid, and as the system cools back down and volume is reduced, the extra fluid is drawn back in to prevent air pockets in the radiator. Not to mention that it helps protect the environment from harmfull chemicals too...
Ok but would you agree that while the radiator coolant is in the recovery tank it is subject to engine heat and pressure thats why the Warnert team removed thiers completely and let it puke. I'm not a bike guy but they set it up like a bike is what they told me.
I mean if you take the plastic recovery tank and put it over a hot engine at 225-250 deg it's got to affect it.
Heres some interesting goggles on the subject.....
The main reason the manufacturers went away from the radiator cap and went to the remote coolant tank was due to the fact that due to the new aerodynamic designs of vehicles, the top of the radiator was lower than the top of the engine, thus not allowing the ability to top off the coolant without raising the front of the vehicle way off the ground.
The coolant overflow tank also allows the antifreeze to have a place to expand, this also allows the driver of the car or truck to easily see the level of coolant in the system.
Here check this out but our sys doesn't have a pressure relieve radiator cap to maintain pressure maybe BCS does, stock is sealed so I'm wondering if the bottle is close to the engine it will build temp and pressure and become inefficent unless it has pressure relieve which it doesn't if I remember right. I know cars don't put it that close to the engine.
As coolant gets hot, it expands. Since the cooling system is sealed, this expansion causes an increase in pressure in the cooling system, which is normal and part of the design. When coolant is under pressure, the temperature where the liquid begins to boil is considerably higher. This pressure, coupled with the higher boiling point of ethylene glycol, allows the coolant to safely reach temperatures in excess of 250 degrees.
The radiator pressure cap is a simple device that will maintain pressure in the cooling system up to a certain point. If the pressure builds up higher than the set pressure point, there is a spring loaded valve, calibrated to the correct Pounds per Square Inch (psi), to release the pressure.
When the cooling system pressure reaches the point where the cap needs to release this excess pressure, a small amount of coolant is bled off. It could happen during stop and go traffic on an extremely hot day, or if the cooling system is malfunctioning. If it does release pressure under these conditions, there is a system in place to capture the released coolant and store it in a plastic tank that is usually not pressurized. Since there is now less coolant in the system, as the engine cools down a partial vacuum is formed. The radiator cap on these closed systems has a secondary valve to allow the vacuum in the cooling system to draw the coolant back into the radiator from the reserve tank (like pulling the plunger back on a hypodermic needle) There are usually markings on the side of the plastic tank marked Full-Cold, and Full Hot. When the engine is at normal operating temperature, the coolant in the translucent reserve tank should be up to the Full-Hot line. After the engine has been sitting for several hours and is cold to the touch, the coolant should be at the Full-Cold line.
grannysleeper
10-04-2009, 03:39 PM
That's a lot of words to restate exactly what I posted! Only difference is our reservoir IS under pressure, unlike most autos.(except those with unusual engine placement, like a porsche)
Originally posted by grannysleeper
That's a lot of words to restate exactly what I posted! Only difference is our reservoir IS under pressure, unlike most autos.(except those with unusual engine placement, like a porsche)
Our system is different than what you and is described above, our does not regulate pressure out a radiator cap(like autos(read above) the radiator is sealed! Without a pressure regulator if you put the bottle by the engine and/or behind the radiator it will get hot expand and cause system pressure under extreme racing conditions. This system was not designed for extreme racing, once pressure builds it restricts flow. I say where the recovery bottle is located with respect to the engine and radiator has ALOT to do with it, if you remove the bottle completely you will see a system temp drop but I don't have test results to proove how much. BCS has already proven this somewhat by relocating & redesigning it they got a 20 deg drop.
Why did the Warnert race team take the bottle off completely? I'll be doing the same thing don't like the plastic seat bracket on it either our 09 broke in one month. :D
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.