New Mods ?'s

[wrekd]

Old setup:

12.5:1 440 Kit, Hotcams Stage 2, DG slip on, stock air filter, lid removed, STOCK jetting :huh

New setup:

12.5:1 440 Kit, Hotcams Stage 2, new rings, HMF Full System, UNI air filter, lid removed, AMR Monster Coil

Couple other things I bought are new Douglas front rims w/Razr2's, SPAL fan, OMF scoops, new/used stock carb (current one is all messed up), cylinder sent out to GT Thunder for HD Stud Kit


1. Will I need a special spark plug with the AMR coil??

2. What jetting would you guys reccommend to get me in a ballpark range?? I was thinking 45 pilot, 3rd clip on the needle, 160 main??

3. I was thinking about running without a base gasket. Good idea??or Bad?? I want it to be reliable and if this is a bad idea, LMK.

Thanks, Dave

[bigbad400]

mines 11:1 but same setup pretty much i use 42 pilot and a 175 main for now maybe one smaller. needle on middle clip. fuel screw out 3 turns


how did it even run with stock jetting on that 440 befor was it doggy as all hell?


you need a base gasket, i would use a xr400 head gasket to bump up the compression, but youll need a 89mm xr400 just like you would need a 89mm 400ex gasket.

[wrekd]

Thanks.

It didn't run too bad on bottom - mid, but the top end was garbage. It was also a ***** to start when cold. I can't wait to see how it runs once I put it back together.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by wrekd
Thanks.

It didn't run too bad on bottom - mid, but the top end was garbage. It was also a ***** to start when cold. I can't wait to see how it runs once I put it back together. That top end might have something to do with that small stock carb.


Originally posted by bigbad400


you need a base gasket, i would use a xr400 head gasket to bump up the compression, but youll need a 89mm xr400 just like you would need a 89mm 400ex gasket. There's no difference between an xr or ex 89mm head gasket.

[wrekd]

Is the stock carb really that bad?? For being on stock jetting I don't think it ran that bad. I'm hoping the new jetting makes a big difference. If not, no big deal. Just more money to spend...lol

[bigbad400]

it will make a huge difference, the stock carb is perfectly fine look at the new sticky, the 450r carb only gives 1-2 hp gain over stock and maybe 4 hp on a fully modded 440, thats decent but hardly noticable by feel, and i wouldnt waste that kind of money to put less of a gain than the sparks key gave.

the hmf and the coil are gonna show more than that will, and no you dont need a plug with the coil but i would get a new plug anyhow. that way you can check your jetting a little closer.

by the way mines close to yours so i would say go to a 42 pilot and a 180 main at least to start use kehin jets, you will prolly have to go down on the main but they say to start hi mines gonna be at a 170 i think with the needle in the stock clip(middle) good luck i hate jetting.

it will start alot eisier with a 42 pilot too and youll see what a 440 can really do if you get it tuned in good. im way impressed with my 11:1 440 check out the sig its a great machine so far, i tried my best to make sure its gonna be reliable and still rip. its fan cooled now too, but i have a 5.5 inch spal fan about 4 inches in front of the cooler blowing back on it not pulling like alot of them you see, i can now idle for like 30 min without getting to hot, i think im gonna make a 2 fan puller setup with like 3.5 inch fans on the backside, seems like alot of wasted cooling space with the 4 inch and big gaps but i think that would be best. mine works good thow.


i hope you took the time and spent the money to get hd studs in that thing. i had to have the piece of mind that nothing was gonna happen so i did it all at the same time.

[Pipeless416]

just to clarify.. the 450r carb will give gains way above and beyond the sparks key. 2 hp IS very noticeable on such low horsepower engines.

[matt14c]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
just to clarify.. the 450r carb will give gains way above and beyond the sparks key. 2 hp IS very noticeable on such low horsepower engines.

I agree 2-4 HP is about a 5-8% gain and there. Not only is the hp better but the added throttle response is a big plus also.

[odog]

:)

[odog]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
just to clarify.. the 450r carb will give gains way above and beyond the sparks key. 2 hp IS very noticeable on such low horsepower engines. x2

[wrekd]

Originally posted by bigbad400
it will make a huge difference, the stock carb is perfectly fine look at the new sticky, the 450r carb only gives 1-2 hp gain over stock and maybe 4 hp on a fully modded 440, thats decent but hardly noticable by feel, and i wouldnt waste that kind of money to put less of a gain than the sparks key gave.

the hmf and the coil are gonna show more than that will, and no you dont need a plug with the coil but i would get a new plug anyhow. that way you can check your jetting a little closer.

by the way mines close to yours so i would say go to a 42 pilot and a 180 main at least to start use kehin jets, you will prolly have to go down on the main but they say to start hi mines gonna be at a 170 i think with the needle in the stock clip(middle) good luck i hate jetting.

it will start alot eisier with a 42 pilot too and youll see what a 440 can really do if you get it tuned in good. im way impressed with my 11:1 440 check out the sig its a great machine so far, i tried my best to make sure its gonna be reliable and still rip. its fan cooled now too, but i have a 5.5 inch spal fan about 4 inches in front of the cooler blowing back on it not pulling like alot of them you see, i can now idle for like 30 min without getting to hot, i think im gonna make a 2 fan puller setup with like 3.5 inch fans on the backside, seems like alot of wasted cooling space with the 4 inch and big gaps but i think that would be best. mine works good thow.


i hope you took the time and spent the money to get hd studs in that thing. i had to have the piece of mind that nothing was gonna happen so i did it all at the same time.



Yeah, I think the stock carb will work fine on my setup. I don't have any headwork done right now. So I don't think the 450 carb would've made much of a difference. Next mods will be P&P with +1 Kibblewhites. Then I will switch to the 450 carb.

Yeah, i also got the HD Studs too. Just waiting for GT Thunder to get it back to me. Then I could put it all together.

Just got my HMF, Modquad K&N kit, and jets in yesterday. The new carb came today. The coil was in a few days ago along with my new rims and tires. Still waiting on the fan though. HOPEFULLY that will be in later today along with the cylinder.

Oh yeah, where would I get the ZRPilot adapter for the 450 carb??

Also, would a Sparks key be a good investment for me?? I remember reading that it should only be used on a stockish engine.

[bigbad400]

no your not supposed to run the sparks key with high compression, i found it to be to advanced for my application anyhow. that was on the stock bore and piston.

im not saying its not good im just saying that it wont be all that good of a gain for 300$ investment, id get the p&p then worry about a bigger headpipe and then a carb. without opening it up for more flow more air wont do much good, but if its all done then you could expect great gains.

[Pipeless416]

$300 for what?

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
$300 for what? I think he's referring to the soon to be released "Bryillium Crystal Key" by Sparks.
I hear that they are supposed to be out soon, and claim to add Space/Time Continueum capabilities, to the Quantum Leap function.
But I won't belive it till I see it on a Nano Partical Nuclear Dyno.

[Pipeless416]

lol, i'm just saying that i paid $110 for my carb, and i put it on when it was the latest, greatest thing to do.. now they can be found for $60 all day.

[spnkit]

stay with stock bore piston and spark's or
go high compression piston set,??

They will both be about the same price,

bone stock bike, with alot of wear on it,

thanks for your time, JT

[wrekd]

OK, I got my quad all put back together the other day. The power difference is night and day compared to what it was. The jetting seems quite a bit off though.

It started up real easy and seemed to be running pretty good. I noticed a small amount of black smoke when revving it up, I mean it was barely even noticeable. So I was riding it around a little bit and all seemed pretty good. Then I took it out later on for a ride. It still felt a little stumbly at low RPM's, and was backfiring a bit on decel, but it ripped on top. I figured I'd fine tune it another day. But I was on my way home and I have to ride a small back road to get to the next trail, so I was bogging it it 4th quite a bit trying to be quiet. It started breaking up and bucking a little bit, so I pulled in the clutch, revved it up and dropped it into 2nd to keep the revs up a bit. I made it about 100yds into the trail and it just died. Felt like I was riding with the choke on. I let it sit for a few and it fired back up. It was running like crap though. Then it did it to me 2 more times after that. I BARELY made it home.

So I'm guessing I'm running too rich on the pilot and possibly the needle. My jetting right now is at 42 pilot, needle on 4th clip, and 170 main. The A/F screw, I have no idea. Instead of a flat head screw, its this weird half-moon shaped thing :huh My old carb has the flat head screw in it.

1. Im guessing I fouled the plug??

2. If I get that half-moon shaped thing out, will my A/F screw from my other carb fit??

3. Will it pop on decel if I'm too rich?? (Every thread I read says thats caused by being too lean)

4. Think I should put the needle back to the 3rd clip??

Just wanna get some opinions before I go to work on it again tomorrow.

Thanks guys, Dave.

[bigbad400]

you prolly did foul a plug, id drop the pilot to a 40 and see what that does, its def too rich. if that dont change anything id go to the needle and drop it one, i have mine in the middle clip, i also think the 42 is a slight bit rich for mine, if i start it after its bean sitting a day it puffs black smoke out for a minut then its fine, just at idle from start, it has to be the pilot.

[wrekd]

I don't have a 40 pilot to pop in and I really don't feel like taking a 40 min ride to the race shop to get one...lol... So I'm just gonna mess around with the 42 and bump the needle back up to the 3rd notch and see what that does. I didn't put the monster coil on yet either, so that should help out a little bit too.

[wrekd]

Ok, so I messed with the jetting. I set the needle back to the 3rd clip, got the half moon shaped A/F screw out, and put the flat head one in from my old carb 2 turns out to start.

Also while I was at it I pulled the valve cover to fix a leak and put in cam stops that were supposed to be in there but weren't :rolleyes:

Anyways, now it wont start. It didn't even give a hint of starting. It was blowing air out of the carb and had no compression whatsoever. Now when I put the valve cover back on, I didn't set it back to TDC. I just slapped it on cause I didn't think it would make a difference. Am I right on that??

So I pulled the valve cover back off, set it at TDC, and checked the timing. The timing is spot on. So I set the valve cover back on, cranked it over, and this time it blew my finger out of the spark plug hole. Great, so now I have compression. Put it all back together and it still wont start. WTF!?!? And it still seems to be blowing air out of the carb??

SO, I'm thinking I either bent a valve somehow, (which I cant see happening cause the timing was on), OR instead of putting the metal valve cover gasket back on, I siliconed it instead.

Could the difference in thickness of the metal gasket VS. the silicone be making my valves stick open a little causing air to blow out of the intake???

I need some help here guys. Im kinda lost right now....lol

[wrekd]

Anyone??

[wrekd]

Well the valve cover gasket was the problem. I can't believe how close the tolerances are on these engines. She fired right up after I did that and adjusted the valves. BUT my head gasket is leaking now, AFTER the GT Thunder HD studs!! I just can't seem to win with this thing :mad:

Anyone have to re-torque there HD studs after having them installed??

I guess Im gonna rip into it again tomorrow and re-torque them :rolleyes: