Dirtbike and ATV Nationals Together????

[XBLASTERRACERX]

I thought I heard that for the 2010 ATV national season that they will be having several of the races along with the Dirtbike National series to try to get atv racing more publicity and air time? Is this true or just a rumor?

[dehner47]

we all have heared those rumors over the years. but so far, they are just that. rumors. :(

[Brad77]

Hey it would be awesome if they would join them together. Then we could hear pro level bike riders complain about pro level kwadtards smoothing out their bike ruts.
LMAO

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by Brad77
Hey it would be awesome if they would join them together. Then we could hear pro level bike riders complain about pro level kwadtards smoothing out their bike ruts.
LMAO

dont think it would go like that... more like the quad riders complaining about the huge nasty deep whoops and ruts and monster jumps, and ther overall gnarliness of a bike track. the pro quad riders dont wanna ride on those tracks :devil:

[dehner47]

if they did do it, they would run the quads after the bikes and after they do some track work. just like they did for the steel city race when the quads were there.

[250r rider 88]

i cannot see it happening due to lack of space at some of the tracks to make room for 2 sets of pro area and up to 2 times as much amateur space, there just isn't the room, some tracks could probably expand their parking, but between the additional racers and all their rigs, the pros and theres as well as the extended amount of fans i just can't see it happening, at least this year

possibly in the future as the economy comes around and race entries pick back up and tracks are making enough money to do this

[Brad77]

Apparently my sarcasm was taken a bit too serious :devil:

LOL

[Pappy]

Actually, economically it makes sense. Pro's of both ranks race on the same weekend. The big companies can combine travel costs. The promoters get a draw to one event, one event means 1 set of track crews and 1 weekend. Publicity would be handled, might even grab the attention of the TV crowd or somehow garuntee TV coverage.


The bigger picture is what it would do to the amatuer ranks....but the promoters do not promote them anyway! they have already proven they will go after the big money every time, but thats what they are in business for aint it?

[250r rider 88]

makes sense in the pro ranks ill agree with you there pappy but i just think it would kill the amateur scene a little more

plus you have to worry about theft, idiots, etc 2x as much as usual, not to mention there are some people in this world who would break out into brawls over the whole quad vs. dirt bike thing:rolleyes:

[Pappy]

Well, that brings us to the question of what happens to the amatuers? They will not be racing with the bikes, the Pro quads will be vacant at the races if the amatuers stand alone etc. Support could grow for the amatuers or it could wane.

Interesting discusion, and not that far off in scope

[FHKracingZ]

Believe what you want about the rumors, but this is a serious issue davey coombs and his people are thinking about. He even made a thread over at Vitalmx asking the people over there what they thought of it.

Realisticly the fans that are there most of them do not want the quads there and are not there to watch the quads. 99% of bike riders do not like quads regardless of the people. We have a image of hillbillys doing doughtnuts all over and being drunks. Although we all know this is not true, there isnt much we can do to change it.

I think we should keep the series how it is. The pros coming to the ATVA nationals drive the crowd for sundays races and I remember when I first started racing I wanted to goto a national to race AND to see the pro's. You wouldnt of seen me spending $800 to goto a national when I was in C class to just race.

Another thing to think about is the time. I mean the nationals already are getting done around 5-6pm on saturdays. They would have to reconstruct the whole weekend. They already run qualifying, lcq's, both moto's on the lites and big bike class, PLUS the WMA at most events. Add in quads and it would be to much.

If they are going to do it, run the qualifying and such for the pro's, bikes and quads on friday. Then just the events on saturday.

One more thing to chew on is they could not make it rideable on some tracks the day of the bikes. At steel city, its hardpacked dirt and the faces stay fine. When your talking redbud, southwick, and glen helen the faces get destroyed with bike ruts let alone the corners are demolished. It would take hours to fix all that to have it suitable to have the atv pro class run it safely.

Just my .2cents.

[250r rider 88]

i honestly believe this would kill amateur racing, it is better to keep it seperated the tracks that host both will make 2x as much as if they were together, sponsors have DOUBLE the opportunity per area for growth and publicity opportunities, it just needs to stay the way it is until something better can come along that protects the amatuers

i would be all for the races being organized by area, example:
1st weekend of month : Loretta's GNCC
2nd weekend: Loretta's ATV MX
3rd weekend: Loratta's bike MX
4th weekend: off weekend or a flat track, enduro, etc. in the area would be the highlight

by having the quads before the bikes the track operators would have a full week to re prep the track keeping the bike guys happy, sponsors can stake out in the area for weeks at a time keeping travel costs down, as well as pro teams being able to double and triple up their teams in some cases

this would keep the same format we have now keeping the amateurs protected and the sport growing

i'm all for more coverage and publicity of our spot but not at the cost of amatuer racing

you kill amateur racing you eventually kill pro racing, we will all be watching 60 year old Natalie and Byrd and others going at it and that is not something i think we want, they cant all be Gust:blah:

[yellowzo3]

I was just about to post what FHK said about the time issue. I don't think there would be enough time in a weekend to make everything run smoothly. If they started on Friday I don't think a decent percentage of people could make it with work and all. I don't think its possible to have a quality national weekend with that much going on... I remember how packed the WPSA race was at Englishtown a couple years ago. If they had bikes and quads there on the same weekend there would not be enough room. I seriously think people would miss their races trying to cover an insane amount of ground in the pits to make it to the track

And guaranteed quads get the short end of the stick if this were to happen.

Examples: Farthest pit area, worst track conditions, poor race/heat/practice times, bikes get the right of way if whether threatens the races, etc.

[Pappy]

We are talking Pro only here, the amatuers wouldnt race on the same weekend.

[coryatver]

Does anyone know why they canceled this years Steel City Open? For the last couple years they have had a pro quad race there but it was just canceled a week or so ago.

I always thought that race was a test to see how racing both the same weekend would work. It is not a good sign for it happening with them canceling it.

[tw1976]

I was at the bike national at Red Bud. There was no time for a quad race during the day with same day qualifying. I would assume thati s part of the reason the open was cancelled. If they moved to Friday qualifying it might work. Personally I think the pros leaving would kill the amateur series.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by tw1976
I was at the bike national at Red Bud. There was no time for a quad race during the day with same day qualifying.


Personally I think the pros leaving would kill the amateur series.

thats what I was told as well


and i agree

[SRH]

they should combine the pro atv and bike...

the ama should mandate any ama sanctioned district series runs a, b ,c. 12-15 300/blaster class, a 50 and a 90 class for quads along with the bikes.... do away with amatuer nationals every round.... then have a qualifier for 3 big amatuer nationals on each coast....and 1 in the mid west... for the top guys....this way riders dont need to spend all that $$$ to make it pro.... they hit up 1 national a yr and get recognition from that, these nationals will be 1 week, quads last half of the week, bikes first half....

brings the prestige back to being a pro....tv coverage for both sports

allows the weekend warrior to actually come up from the local scene and make it, mandating the atv classes and a procedure for the day on the local level would assure equal treatment, and if the pros compete together on the same track so should the amatuers

i think this would be the way to do things.... gets rid of the whole quad vs bike...accept it as 1 sport

i know guys on the local level who were faster than alot of guys getting help and didnt get help because they didnt have the cash to run every national....it shouldnt work that way in my eyes...the teams should have scouts watching at the amateur nationals for the rider with that spark and look at there results and consistency on the local level and go from there this assures the best talent in the pro class....basically there have been some extremely talented guys come up on the local level...dominate but cant go any further without help...you aim for a national 1 time a yr and do it there... with everyone watching...it would motivate alot more guys

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by SRH
they should combine the pro atv and bike...

the ama should mandate any ama sanctioned district series runs a, b ,c. 12-15 300/blaster class, a 50 and a 90 class for quads along with the bikes.... do away with amatuer nationals every round.... then have a qualifier for 3 big amatuer nationals on each coast....and 1 in the mid west... for the top guys....this way riders dont need to spend all that $$$ to make it pro.... they hit up 1 national a yr and get recognition from that, these nationals will be 1 week, quads last half of the week, bikes first half....

brings the prestige back to being a pro....tv coverage for both sports

allows the weekend warrior to actually come up from the local scene and make it, mandating the atv classes and a procedure for the day on the local level would assure equal treatment, and if the pros compete together on the same track so should the amatuers

i think this would be the way to do things.... gets rid of the whole quad vs bike...accept it as 1 sport

i know guys on the local level who were faster than alot of guys getting help and didnt get help because they didnt have the cash to run every national....it shouldnt work that way in my eyes...the teams should have scouts watching at the amateur nationals for the rider with that spark and look at there results and consistency on the local level and go from there this assures the best talent in the pro class....basically there have been some extremely talented guys come up on the local level...dominate but cant go any further without help...you aim for a national 1 time a yr and do it there... with everyone watching...it would motivate alot more guys

Sounds a lot like the way bikes do it for LL. Have area qualifiers to qualify for a regional qualifier. Then you place in the top whatever from regionals and you make it to the national. I'm diggin this idea. It works well for bikes.

[maticus]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
dont think it would go like that... more like the quad riders complaining about the huge nasty deep whoops and ruts and monster jumps, and ther overall gnarliness of a bike track. the pro quad riders dont wanna ride on those tracks :devil:

not sure if you were kidding or not but last year weinen put down a faster lap time than stewart at steel city. but your right bike riders hate quads.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by maticus
not sure if you were kidding or not but last year weinen put down a faster lap time than stewart at steel city. but your right bike riders hate quads.

haha yea i was kidding, just trying to get people pissed at me :devil: thats impressive but i'll make it pretty straightforward... bikes are faster than quads. end of discussion.

[jesseweaver]

and i'll post this as a humbling reminder. thats all that needs to be said.

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haha i hate these arguements no one ever wins

[Brad77]

Originally posted by jesseweaver


haha i hate these arguements no one ever wins

And this makes sense considering, ummmm your a bike rider on a quad forum. Hahaha

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by maticus
not sure if you were kidding or not but last year weinen put down a faster lap time than stewart at steel city. but your right bike riders hate quads.

Do they keep the track the same or do they cut off some sections for quads? Not trying to argue. I'm just curious.

[hasbeenttduner]

The nationals were fine when the wpsa had the pro class so they should be ok with this.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by Brad77
And this makes sense considering, ummmm your a bike rider on a quad forum. Hahaha

i know lol doesn't really make sense. used to have a quad and was on here and got a bike and kinda never left. i go to thumpertalk usually when i have bike quiestions, come here for the open forum.

[extremeblastr]

Originally posted by hasbeenttduner
The nationals were fine when the wpsa had the pro class so they should be ok with this.

your comparison is semi legit, the nationals would have eventually gone under with the wpsa around. but if the pro quads were to run with the pro bikes i think a national amateur series could still survive but the idea to format it like the bikes do with qualifiers leading up to a big "final" for the year where everybody shows what they can really do against the best guy from everywhere else is the best idea.

[Brad77]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
i know lol doesn't really make sense. used to have a quad and was on here and got a bike and kinda never left. i go to thumpertalk usually when i have bike quiestions, come here for the open forum.

LOL its all good man. I get along with everyone at the track. Also I ride bikes and quads (need to update my sig) So I have friends with two wheels and some with four. I do know that quad racing in general has been somewhat tarnished by the goons playing in the pits. Which brings me back to the original point of this post.
I think there are many people who still do not realize that quad racing is a real thing. I think many people would be surprised to see the factory support and rigs that are at a ATV national. I do feel like that ATV racing may get a boost if quads and bikes were run together. Although I also see the bad point regarding the amateur racing.

[maticus]

Originally posted by 300ex_#387
Do they keep the track the same or do they cut off some sections for quads? Not trying to argue. I'm just curious.

nope they rode the same track.

[csr250r]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
dont think it would go like that... more like the quad riders complaining about the huge nasty deep whoops and ruts and monster jumps, and ther overall gnarliness of a bike track. the pro quad riders dont wanna ride on those tracks :devil:

I agree with brad77, usually the bike guys crying about quads on the track unless it rains alot then they love you.

I bet you tame the big air too(monster jumps are nothing to you!), and the nastiest deepest woops dont even effect you! Really we know you have a bike, thats awsome. Join a gnarly bike forum where only the gnarliest riders type.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by csr250r
I agree with brad77, usually the bike guys crying about quads on the track unless it rains alot then they love you.

I bet you tame the big air too(monster jumps are nothing to you!), and the nastiest deepest woops dont even effect you! Really we know you have a bike, thats awsome. Join a gnarly bike forum where only the gnarliest riders type.

haha just joking around, sorry i forgot humor isn't allowed on this site anymore.

[jesseweaver]

:devil:

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
:devil:

Your only asking for it....

[motofreak2772]

Quads with the bikes will probably backfire. Honestly dirtbikers dont like quads. Not only because of how we tear up the track, but just because we ride something they think is easy. If we were to race nationals with them they will try to run us out of there and just harrass us. Just like when inlines and skateboarders were in the xgames. Now skating is thought to be the gayest sport in existense. I don't want that to be quad racing.
But maybe it might work and it will be good for the sport just remember that yes we will get more exposure it just might not be good exposure.

[etccb]

:devil:

poser

[JR3]

Originally posted by etccb
poser

+1

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by etccb
poser

haha posing as what??

[gcart2]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
haha posing as what??

okay stop. this thread is about quads and dirtbikes running a single national, not about you being billy badass biker.

a lot of us ride bikes.

stop. :rolleyes:

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by gcart2
okay stop. this thread is about quads and dirtbikes running a single national, not about you being billy badass biker.

a lot of us ride bikes.

stop. :rolleyes:

haha wow this forum has gone south fast. no more humor allowed here. :rolleyes:


as far as the single national, idk how it work :ermm: there would def be a lot more people watching the quads run then there are now but i think all the new specatators wouldn't watch them as much. fans like to watch the fatest things on the track. thats why the 450s are more popular than the 250 races. and thats why the 250 races are more popular than the womens class races. :ermm:

[mxpimp2000]

Originally posted by Pappy
We are talking Pro only here, the amatuers wouldnt race on the same weekend.

IMO i like it the way it is now because its all quads and mainly the pros is what gets ppl to come and watch and or race. that is wat inspired me to start racing. if it were atv pros and dirtbike pros together i wouldnt like it anymore honestly it would suck imo. the way it is now the amature riders get noticed more because the sponsors and teams are there and can catch an eye on wat riders are moving up and wat riders need the support to become a pro rider.

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
haha wow this forum has gone south fast. no more humor allowed here. :rolleyes:


as far as the single national, idk how it work :ermm: there would def be a lot more people watching the quads run then there are now but i think all the new specatators wouldn't watch them as much. fans like to watch the fatest things on the track. thats why the 450s are more popular than the 250 races. and thats why the 250 races are more popular than the womens class races. :ermm:

Thats not true though. The 250 class is just as competitive and fast as the 450. The lap times are only a few seconds off. Many people would argue that the 250 class was more competitive this year also making it a better show.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by 300ex_#387
Thats not true though. The 250 class is just as competitive and fast as the 450. The lap times are only a few seconds off. Many people would argue that the 250 class was more competitive this year also making it a better show.

yea the 250s are very very close and probably more competitive, but just a little bit slower. i personally enjoyed watcing them more this year, but your average fan i think will watch the 450s first, they're the more prestigious (sp?) class and just a tad faster.

[k4f5x0r]

450 outdoors class this year was just stupid. there was nothing interesting about it. once the race started it pretty much stayed in that order for the entire race

i loved the 250's because it was a constant changing race. a pass here a pass there. it really kept you entertained

[SRH]

i think they should have a raptor 250 style class for the pros too, it would be interesting to see how the riders finishes would differ from the big quad to the small quad

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by SRH
i think they should have a raptor 250 style class for the pros too, it would be interesting to see how the riders finishes would differ from the big quad to the small quad

Maybe if a company put a 250 in production with a liquid cooled engine that would be an awesome idea. Pro riders would feel so cramped and the bikes would be missing over half the horsepower the pro bikes are making. It makes since for bike guys to do this because the bikes are basically the same size and there isnt such a drastic change in HP numbers. Untill somone comes out with some sort of 250f motor in a decent frame I don't see this happening at all.

[SRH]

Originally posted by 300ex_#387
Maybe if a company put a 250 in production with a liquid cooled engine that would be an awesome idea. Pro riders would feel so cramped and the bikes would be missing over half the horsepower the pro bikes are making. It makes since for bike guys to do this because the bikes are basically the same size and there isnt such a drastic change in HP numbers. Untill somone comes out with some sort of 250f motor in a decent frame I don't see this happening at all.

bla bla bla, we dont need a 450 copy with a different number stamped on it, a lil bit of variety as far as the machine might spark more intrest

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by SRH
bla bla bla, we dont need a 450 copy with a different number stamped on it, a lil bit of variety as far as the machine might spark more intrest

Maybe but I don't think I raptor 250 is going to cut it. Although the Youth Production class is a good class to watch I just don't see full grown men wanting to race a smaller chassis quad.

[SRH]

Originally posted by 300ex_#387
Maybe but I don't think I raptor 250 is going to cut it. Although the Youth Production class is a good class to watch I just don't see full grown men wanting to race a smaller chassis quad.

pitbikes......

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by 300ex_#387
Maybe if a company put a 250 in production with a liquid cooled engine that would be an awesome idea. Pro riders would feel so cramped and the bikes would be missing over half the horsepower the pro bikes are making. It makes since for bike guys to do this because the bikes are basically the same size and there isnt such a drastic change in HP numbers. Untill somone comes out with some sort of 250f motor in a decent frame I don't see this happening at all.

i think it'd be pretty hard with a quad. like someone said about the bikes, the 250 lap times are maybe 2 seconds off the 450s... it'd be pretty hard to make a 250cc quad that runs similar lap times to the 450s.

[Pappy]

At some point, we will see production based 2500cc machines based off the 450 chassis. I personally think it would have happened this year or next if teh economy wasnt in the tank.

Our sport is evolving slowly, its not thought of as just "hicks" in the back yard. It woudl grow faster if we could weed out the goons but that aint happening

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by Pappy
At some point, we will see production based 2500cc machines based off the 450 chassis. I personally think it would have happened this year or next if teh economy wasnt in the tank.

Our sport is evolving slowly, its not thought of as just "hicks" in the back yard. It woudl grow faster if we could weed out the goons but that aint happening

Do you think it would be another youth class or would it be like a 250c, 250b or 250a class.

[Pappy]

It would not be a youth based atv. Personally, I think that has been holding us back as a sport...the fact that we have to oblidge a law that is now defunct. I garuntee that there would be more riders wanting a stab at the 250 title then the 450 class.

[mxduner]

Originally posted by SRH
i think they should have a raptor 250 style class for the pros too, it would be interesting to see how the riders finishes would differ from the big quad to the small quad just bring back the trx250r and forget about another high strung, highly advanced time bomb that would just favor the big man.keep the lap times decent at the same time, without that whiny noise the 250f's put out.