engine ticking bad...need help

[Dobber]

hey guys..i was riding my 440 today and i shut it off for like 5 mins..i came back and it wouldnt start.so my dad pulled it with his 4wheeler and we pop started it..it started but when it did it was ticking really loud and then it died.we did it again and it did the same thing.it wont stay running at idle at all..im really confused

[honda400ex2003]

i would check the valves first and see how it goes from there. then check compression and do a leak down test if possible to see how everything inside is sealing and such. make sure you adjust the valves to the right specs. steve

[Dobber]

i was guessing it had something to do with the valves but would that keep it from starting unless its pop started?thats the part thats confusing me..one of my dad talked to one of his friends and he said that it might have jumped time..could that be a possibility?

[honda400ex2003]

that could be a possibility so you can check that while you are checking the valves. if they are still touching while it is at tdc then it is really messed up. if the valves are open too long or not long enough it will not have enough compression or gas mixture to keep it running depending on the situation. that is where i would start. you can rule out a lot doing that. if they are in spec still then you have to move onto checking other things like the carb being clogged and not getting enough gas, the filter being clogged, and leaks around. you could have blew a head gasket or something while pull starting it so you should check around the base and the top of the cylinder to check for leaks. you should be able to see it around there with the carbon coming out. good luck, steve

[Dobber]

alright thanks..ill check everything and let you know how it goes

[honda400ex2003]

sounds good, steve

[Dobber]

ok..my dad and one of his friends were looking at my 4wheeler while i was at football practice today..they checked the timing and looked at the valves.they said that the timing was fine but when they looked at the valves that said that they were really tight..they didn't adjust them any because they couldn't find the manual..what are the valves supposed to be set at?

[MtnEX]

They were probably at TDC on the wrong stroke.

There should be play when at TDC on the right stroke. Get there first... then report what you have for valve clearance.

I just don't think that is it.

[Dobber]

i know this is going to sound knida dumb..but what exactly is TDC?this is my first 400 and ive never had to adjust the valves or anything like that before..this is the first real problem ive had with it

[honda400ex2003]

tdc is top dead center. this is when you make the piston go all the way up inbetween the exhaust and the intake which is the power stroke. you take off the side covers on the left side of the machine and there are marks on the flywheel and on the case to line it up. i think it is a T marked on the flywheel and you line it up with the mark on the hole. you rotate the crank around until you get it in the right place but make sure you only go counter clock wise to avoid breaking anything or making anything bind. if you have a manual it is really detailed in there and if you dont have one i would suggest getting one to aid in doing everything on the machine. steve

[Dobber]

ok guys..i talked to my dads fried that was helping us on the ticking problem and he said that when they were looking at the valves that they had it at tdc when they were looking at it...he told me that i should try to find what the clearence should be..so do any of you guys know what the clearence should be?i really need to get this fixed asap because i have a dirt drag next weekend..thanks

[timmy400exfast]

i think they are .005 inches of clearance for the exhaust valves and .004 of clearance for the intake valves in fact i am almost positive.tim

[Dobber]

alright..thanks.i probly wont be able to so anything to it tomorow niight because i have a football game so ill probly do it some time saturday and ill let you know you all know how it works out

[MtnEX]

Yep... the above is right for the clearance.


But like I said above, there is TDC... and then there is TDC on the proper stroke.

Sometimes it's a little hard to get on the right one.
The engine wants to "freespin" right past it sometimes. You have to hold the socket really firmly, and turn the ratchet slowly.

Bottom line is, when you have TDC on the right stroke, you will have loose free play on all 4 valves. You'll be able to wiggle the valvetrain.

[Dobber]

hello again..i was able to gey my hands on a clymer manual and my dad has been sitting outside reading that thing all day pretty much..and he seems to think that it is the decompresser making the noise and not the valves based on what he has read in the manual..so if it isnt the valves making the ticking sound could it be the decompresser?we havent checked the valve clearances yet because we dont have anything to measure it with so we havent make any really progress with it but i was out messing with it earlier and we didnt have it on the right TDC stroke..now we so have some play in the valves... o yea..we do have one more problem..one of the caps covering the valves is stripped so we cant get it off..do you guys have any ideas on how we could get this off?thanks for all of your help

[honda400ex2003]

really big easy out i guess, otherwise try to get a flat head screwdriver to fit in the hole crooked. if those dont work dremel out a cut to put a big flat head in and try to turn it that way. i still think your valves first, i dont think it is the decompressor. otherwise it is just a normal tick in my opinion. steve

[MtnEX]

I figured it was not on the right stroke.


If the noise is only at around idle it is probably the decompressor... and it can sound pretty darn "terminal" in my opinion. Sounds like it is coming from the upper right hand side of the engine... because it is...

Bottom line is if it sounds like this video of mine, it is likely the decompressor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep3pi9K-Fn0

The cam chain can make noise too... and the valves have a bit of normal lash noise. But they are worth checking.

[Dobber]

that is pretty much what it sounds like but it doesnt fade away and then come back like yours did..its always there through all rpms

[mcgrath]

..one of the caps covering the valves is stripped so we cant get it off..do you guys have any ideas on how we could get this off?thanks for all of your help [/B][/QUOTE]

Make sure you use a socket not a wrench or pliers. It grips alot better. Otherwise if it is totally screwed already. Grind a groove in the edge and use a flat screwdriver and a hammer to tap it around to get it off. Then get a new one... put oil on the threads before putting back in.

[Dobber]

Make sure you use a socket not a wrench or pliers. It grips alot better. Otherwise if it is totally screwed already. Grind a groove in the edge and use a flat screwdriver and a hammer to tap it around to get it off. Then get a new one... put oil on the threads before putting back in. [/B][/QUOTE]

its pretty much totally screwed now..we were using a socket but the guy that had of before us put it on wayyy to tight and the socket spun and rounded it off...and wouldnt prying it off like that totally mess the treads up?and how much does one off these caps cost?

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Dobber
that is pretty much what it sounds like but it doesnt fade away and then come back like yours did..its always there through all rpms

Oh... so it is stuck maybe?


Try this....

Take the socket and turn the engine over, as you would be to achieve TDC for a valve adjustment....

But instead, slowly and carefully turn the engine over the OTHER WAY.

Keep on turning, and at a certain point... you should hear a snap. You will know it when you hear it. This is the decompressor.

Once it snaps, go ahead and turn the engine back over the right way the first stroke by hand. Then fire back up and see if it is still there.


It might be best to just take the whole top cover off the engine for the valve lash check.... just so you can see everything in there... if you still have noise after this.

[mcgrath]

its pretty much totally screwed now..we were using a socket but the guy that had of before us put it on wayyy to tight and the socket spun and rounded it off...and wouldnt prying it off like that totally mess the treads up?and how much does one off these caps cost? [/B][/QUOTE]
Totally screw the threads. Dont pry it off!! cut a small groove in the edge of the cap and then tap it off, turning it the same as you would with a wrench but tapping the screwdriver like a chisel driving the cap around to loosen it. Do you understand what I mean?

[Dobber]

MtnEx-ill try that tomorow and see what happens and ill let you know..thanks for all the help

mcgrath-i guess i didnt totally understand what you ment at first but now i get what you mean

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by MtnEX


It might be best to just take the whole top cover off the engine for the valve lash check.... just so you can see everything in there... if you still have noise after this.

Dobber, this advice will not work. Your rocker assembly is attached the valve cover so if you take it off you can't check it. Do like mcgrath is telling you. It needs to be done so if you have to buy a new cap you'll just have to buy one.

Cheapcylceparts dot com has the cap for $12.56.

[Dobber]

thanks TRXRacer..just saved me some time..and thanks for the price on the new cover

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
Dobber, this advice will not work. Your rocker assembly is attached the valve cover so if you take it off you can't check it.

Well... I didn't know that... obviously...
I figured it was a valve cover, and the caps were just for convenience.

Learn something new every day...

[Dobber]

adjusted the valves today..the intake were way off but the exhaust were really close to what the should have been...its still ticking though...we tried to do what you said MtnEx but we never heard the snapping noise that you said we should hear..we turned it about a stroke and a half...how far do you have to turn it untill you hear the snapping noise?

[Dobber]

if it jumped time would that make it tick?

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Dobber
adjusted the valves today..the intake were way off but the exhaust were really close to what the should have been...its still ticking though...we tried to do what you said MtnEx but we never heard the snapping noise that you said we should hear..we turned it about a stroke and a half...how far do you have to turn it untill you hear the snapping noise?

I honestly can't remember how many turns it took before the snap.

I would go do it for you right now to see, but my cap there is pretty mangled, so I am trying to avoid opening again until the new one is here.

Turn it over several rounds backwards, and you should hear it.


If it doesn't snap, that means it's stuck RIGHT GUYS????

I'm not certain how it works because I've never had mine apart.


That sure would explain a noise like mine that does not go away wouldn't it?

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Dobber
if it jumped time would that make it tick?

It would run different or not at all I would think.


Have you checked your tensioner and timing chain yet?... I forget at this point...


Do you have a camera that takes video?
If so, post something up...

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by MtnEX

Do you have a camera that takes video?
If so, post something up...

X2;)

[Dobber]

we checked the timing chain and tensioner and that was all fine...ill try to get a video if i can

[Dobber]

ok guys..the decompresser is on(or by) the cam right?because my dad was looking for it tonight and he didnt see it..we bought the 400 with a hotcam in it and i read somewhere on here that if you have an aftermarket cam you dont have to put the decompresser back on..am i right or am i thinking about a completely different part?

[honda400ex2003]

if there is a hotcam in it there is no decompressor on it. but yes the stock cam has the decomp pressed onto the cam and utilizes a smaller plunger and spring to help make it function properly. steve

[Dobber]

alright.thanks..so that means that it cant be the decompresser and we have that valves adjusted to what they should be...what else could it be?

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Dobber
alright.thanks..so that means that it cant be the decompresser and we have that valves adjusted to what they should be...what else could it be?

The piston wrist pin....
Watch out now, something is about to fly through the side of the motor....
GAME OVER!!!! :D



Just messing with ya, but possible, heck a lot is possible at this point, but how should we even have a clue?.... Where's the video/audio?

[ryanhood1983]

With the jug off should you be able to move the piston side to side? or more clear 'left to right'. Mine moves about an 1/8" left to right, side to side. whatever ya wanna call it. should there be play like that? maybe shims or washers on the wrist pin..??

[Dobber]

i was gonna get the video for you today but my mom let one of her friends borrow the camera so ill have to wait till we get it back..she said that it should be back tomorow.

[Dobber]

i think we found the problem..two bent intake valves...well one bent and one broken off and stuck in the top of the piston...so now i need a new piston and new intake valves...i also found out that i was lied to when i bough the thang..its completely stock besides a webcam(i was told stg 2 hotcam) and a dmc alien full exhaust..it makes me mad but at the same time i am happy that i dont have a 440 and i dont know who had done the work to it.