For woods trails 400ex or Raptor 700

[grump]

I didn't get any response on the Raptor Forum, so I'll run this by the 400ex guys.

I'm looking to get a bike in Nov. and I've finally narrowed it down to either a 400ex or a Raptor 700. I can still find a few new '07 400ex's for great deals and I'm sure by Nov the '08's will be just as good of a deal. The Raptor 700 would have to be used and I'd be looking for an '07 or newer and as stock as possible.

My main concern is that I want to be able to ride slow trails with my wife. I know either one can open up and be fun when I ride with my buddy who has a Raptor 660, but my wife likes to take old jeep trails at a snails pace and I'm concerned the Raptor might require too much clutching.

I'm 6'2" 200lbs and have been riding trikes/quads and dirt bikes since '83, so I'm not really worried about handling the bike and I'm not exactly new to this. I'm selling my YZ250 to help pay for the bike as all my buddies that I can ride with are now on quads and they are totally different beasts when it comes to riding.

So what's a better woods/trail quad, the 400ex or the Raptor 700? And of course, why?

[honda400ex2003]

400 in my opinion it handles better and has a lower center of gravity. it is a great slow riding machine with a ton of low end to get you through any riding day with excitement no matter how slow you go. you can always give it some gas and take off reaching for the sky. lol, you would walk all over a raptor in the woods too when you ride with your buddies. my .02 though, since i have ridden with a couple and have done this myself. steve

[0101]

Raptors are too top heavy for my liking. It just doesn't feel at home with all the tight turns and such in the trails. My 400 on the other hand feels much more comfortable and stable through the woods at almost any speeds. It has the power when you need it and has a very soft ride too.

The only thing I really like about the Raptor is the amount of torque it has.... but to gain all that extra torque, you will need a ginormous and heavy 700cc engine, heavier duty components, and whatnot. These things are heavy.

Either way you go you will walk all over your buddies 660... But, my vote goes for the 400.

[buster024]

I have spent time in the saddle on both 400ex's and Raptor 700's, and I'm not a Honda homer. I think Yamaha makes a sweet bike, and in reality would prefer a YFZ to an R, but between the 700 and a 400 for woods and trail riding I dont feel it's even a contest. The Honda is a much better trail, logging road, dirt style bike. If you were a sand-duner, then by all means get the Raptor. The 700 would be the very last bike I would choose for the trails. Way to much torque. I most definitely prefer the low end grunt (the unbeatable 2nd gear) the 400 offers.

.....and I agree with 0101....You'll blow up virtually any Raptor on the trails with a 400, and with all the extra dough you'll save, you can (and should) buy some new suspension.

[Ryan'07400ex]

You said u were looking for stock but are you keeping it stock is the question. I'd say the 700 has better stock suspension for trails, i've only ridden one a little but my friend seems as capable as us 400's. He has trouble keeping front end down sometimes.

I personally don't like the way you are leaning over the tank so much though and would take a 400ex over it anyday cept maybe a stock to stock 5th gear race.

Just trying to show 2 sides haha

[Ba9801]

I have ridden many different quads now on tight trails and I still think that I made the best choice with the 400ex. I have tried a 2005 Honda 450R, 2006 Suzuki LT R450 QuadRacer, a couple Yamaha Warrior 350's, Yamaha Raptor 350, Yamaha Blaster, etc.. Unfortunately I have never ridden a Raptor 700. But of all the bikes I have ridden the 400ex has the best overall feel and agility out on the trails. Of coarse if you get in an all out straight away some other bikes will beat you but most of the time you will be leaving them behind on the trails. The 450r's you are on the clutch all the time and the Suzuki is just way to wide for some of the tighter trails. The 400ex has a great balance of width, center of gravity and power. And best of all it has proven Honda powertrain.

[tx07400ex]

im with these guys one of my friends has a 700 and on trails he cant keep up if we r going slow he gets to hot if we try to speed up he is too worried about rolling. i have flew down trails on my 400 and dropped in a hole with half the bike about a foot and a half doing 55 or 60 and it came out fine on the stock suspension. the 700 is just built too much for racing and not enough for trail riding

[Snipe]

Also the narrower width of the 400 gives you way much better turning, I can leave my dad behind on his DS650 just cause im so much narrower. 450's have problems in tight places cause of the turning radious is longer. The plus's of the 400 outweigh the raptor in the trails, but its still a good bike none the less.

[wrekd]

Being 6'2", I would go with the Raptor. Its better suited to bigger riders. Im 6'1" 270 and the 400 feels like a Blaster to me. When I get on my friends Raptor I feel so much better. Not as cramped, and way more low end grunt to haul my fat arse around. To me, it'd be a no brainer, 700 hands down.

I love my 400 but I can't wait to get my Raptor 700. Oh and 1 more thing, the Raptor is liquid cooled. BIG + in my book. The 400 gets wayyyy to hot.

[0101]

Originally posted by tx07400ex
the 700 is just built too much for drag racing and not enough for trail riding

fixed!

[VTredneckgames]

Originally posted by wrekd
Being 6'2", I would go with the Raptor. Its better suited to bigger riders. Im 6'1" 270 and the 400 feels like a Blaster to me. When I get on my friends Raptor I feel so much better. Not as cramped, and way more low end grunt to haul my fat arse around. To me, it'd be a no brainer, 700 hands down.

I love my 400 but I can't wait to get my Raptor 700. Oh and 1 more thing, the Raptor is liquid cooled. BIG + in my book. The 400 gets wayyyy to hot.

I respectfully disagree. Im 6'5" 240 and I love my 400. Even my wife and I double 40% of the time on mine. Plenty of room.

Whoever started this thread,
You can't expect to post this question in the 400ex section and have everyone say the Raptor. Post this in the raptor section and it will be just like this thread, only biased towards the raptor.

The Raptor is NOT built for "drag racing":rolleyes: Yamaha built the raptor for one reason.. trails. One of the reason's the old 660's were so tippy, they were 4in's narrower then the 400ex in the front.

The new 700's are nothing like the old 660's. It's a completely different motor, that with an exhaust, filter, and programmer is a complete monster. Depending on what year you get, they come with piggyback fully adjustable shocks. They have the hybrid steel/aluminum frame, and fuel injection.

I find them really comfortable, and they aren't THAT heavy. I guess a couple more pounds then the 400ex makes it super heavy and bad.:ermm:

[katch26]

the only place the 400 shines over (insert bike here) in the woods is really really tight stuff. The turning radius on the 400 is ridiculous and can literally turn circles around the larger bikes......from my experience

[Pipeless416]

i wish i had a 700R.. :scary:

[bigbad400]

pipeless you always say things that i was gonna say. lol.

i too would love the 700 in the woods i ride it wouldnt perform any better than my 400, i also ride with ds650s and they are about the same too. but comming into the straits its nice to have the real launch like a 700 or 650, but why spend money on a big 700 when you could buy a 450 that will smoke both and if you leave it stock then width wont be a problem, my 400 is wider than stock 450 and i go down some tight windy trails. with plus 3's on iv never had to worry about width. all around they say the yfz450 is the best, (not at all a yamaha fan either) for an all around rider.
and the 450 will smoke the raptor 700. but of the 2 choices you gave in the deep deep stuff the 400 will prevail. but honestly id get the raptor, or a 450 of any brand.

[grump]

Thanks for the replies guys. Actually I originally had post this in the Raptor section, but nobody wanted to comment.

Most of the woods stuff is going to be slow, so even though I like the Raptor I'm just worried it will require a lot of clutch work which would just take the fun out of it. Like I said, to open it up the 700R would be a blast but I know the 400 will move fast enough for the area.

As far as leaving them stock, well with time I'm sure I'd make a few changes. For the Raptor, seriously I'd only consider a tire size change. I think a 23 front and 22 rear would suite the terrain better. For the 400ex, again the tires would eventually change to the 23/22 and both would get sprocket changes to match - with the intent to bring it back to stock performance. I'm sure with the 400 I'd probably add a muffler and beef up the oil cooling system. I'd have to jet it too, regardless, since I'm at 7000' and ride it year round from 20f to 100f weather along with elevation changes from 5000' to 10000'.

I've been leaning toward the 400ex logically, but in a way I'd kind of like to have the 700r. But if 10-20mph on old jeep trails and fire roads peppered with large rocks is going to be a problem then I'd definitely stick to the 400ex. I just can't bring myself to ride a utility all the time, especially since I like to get out with the guys once in a while and open it up too.

[Snipe]

no the 450's are not bad for tight stuff just the stem dont allow for as tight of turn. my cousin always get stuck on his lol he isnt that great at spinning the tires.

I wouldnt say no to a 700R there heavier yeah but its by 11lbs the raptor 660 or 700 is actually the lightest in the class even against the new honda and older KFX.

[Muzzgit]

To me the Rappy 700 is too tall and tippy - you sit up on it, not down in it.

The expense of making a 700 less tippy outweighs the expense of making a 400EX perfect ----- 2" wheel spacers on the rear axle, handle bar risers, nurf bars and a good slip-on pipe & air filter.

[wrekd]

Originally posted by grump

Most of the woods stuff is going to be slow, so even though I like the Raptor I'm just worried it will require a lot of clutch work which would just take the fun out of it.


The Raptor is suited very well for tight trails, reverse, torque out the *****, and if you wanna get up and go, it does that very well too. The 700's 1st gear is actually geared pretty low from the factory. Alot of people say its pretty much useless. My buddy has 1up on the front sprocket with 21" Mudsharks and he could putt around slower then I can on my 400 with stock gearing. Its just a very torquey motor.

Every time I get on my buddy's Raptor I dont even want to get back on my 400. I cant wait to get a Raptor already. The 400's a good quad, but its just outdated.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by grump
Thanks for the replies guys. Actually I originally had post this in the Raptor section, but nobody wanted to comment.

Most of the woods stuff is going to be slow, so even though I like the Raptor I'm just worried it will require a lot of clutch work which would just take the fun out of it. Like I said, to open it up the 700R would be a blast but I know the 400 will move fast enough for the area.

As far as leaving them stock, well with time I'm sure I'd make a few changes. For the Raptor, seriously I'd only consider a tire size change. I think a 23 front and 22 rear would suite the terrain better. For the 400ex, again the tires would eventually change to the 23/22 and both would get sprocket changes to match - with the intent to bring it back to stock performance. I'm sure with the 400 I'd probably add a muffler and beef up the oil cooling system. I'd have to jet it too, regardless, since I'm at 7000' and ride it year round from 20f to 100f weather along with elevation changes from 5000' to 10000'.

I've been leaning toward the 400ex logically, but in a way I'd kind of like to have the 700r. But if 10-20mph on old jeep trails and fire roads peppered with large rocks is going to be a problem then I'd definitely stick to the 400ex. I just can't bring myself to ride a utility all the time, especially since I like to get out with the guys once in a while and open it up too.


Well, I wasn't going to click on this thread, but now I am glad I did...

Let me put it to you like this...

I have a Polaris Sport 400 (Scrambler 2x4) which happens to be the only one of mine my wife can ride.

When I bought my 400EX it had 14/38 gearing (down 1 tooth in front) and after riding with her on the auto... and putting the kids around on it, I decided to stay with that gearing. So you know I like the grunt... eases the clutch work... which gets real old to me.

I still have my 400EX... but when I went to trade it, the Raptor 700R was on my list.

I make no bones about it... the newer ones with fully adjustable suspension all the way around.... they are GREAT bikes. I take nothing away from them.

In stock form they are just a little tall is all... and the center of gravity is higher, which there is nothing you can do for...

But bottom line is... this bike has VERY good bottom end. It didn't seem to be a clutch hound at all.

The 450's are the clutch hounds... lots of work to ride slow unless you add a $600 Rekluse clutch kit...


Anyways, between those 2... go with the 700R man... I found a few for $5,000 when I was looking... worth it!!!

Get the 700R and put some good sport tires on it... Maxxis, ITP, GBC, Kenda... and stick to 20" rears... 22's don't handle well and you have to fool around with gearing to get your slow going back...

Anyways, like I say... 700R... 20" sport tires.... then unlock those preload rings on top of the springs and give up as much as you can stand... The object being to get it as low as possible, while still being able to take the rough stuff without beating you to death.

You'll be very happy you did...


Not trying to knock the 400EX for this type of riding at all because this is what it does best... but the 700R is just so much more machine for the money.... Good suspension, good tall tank to knee lock against, liquid cooling, fuel injection so you don't have to fool with re-jetting for the altitude.... and my lord, knocking on near TWICE the displacement!!!!


When I'm riding really slow tight trails on the 450R... in some places I catch myself wishing for the EX... and then I have a slight moment of regret where I wish I had just got the 700R and DUMPED my 400EX period.

If I had the money, I'd swap my 400EX for a 700R tomorrow. Then I would have an unreal trio of quads....

[boosted3g]

Sounds like you should put the 700xx on your list. I love riding that thing in the woods. You can hit the nastiest or holes and it just glides over it. It does not turn sharp but that irs is worth the trade off. After spending hours on my buddys 700 its my next trail bike. I bought a brand new 400ex in october of 07 and its already gone, it simply needs more power and a watercooled engine.

Originally posted by boosted3g
Sounds like you should put the 700xx on your list. I love riding that thing in the woods. You can hit the nastiest or holes and it just glides over it. It does not turn sharp but that irs is worth the trade off. After spending hours on my buddys 700 its my next trail bike. I bought a brand new 400ex in october of 07 and its already gone, it simply needs more power and a watercooled engine.

Bleh.. for an IRS trail quad don't buy that turd.

No offense to people that own them, but I think they're super sluggish and WAYYYY too heavy.

It never hit me until now, but you should look into the Outlaw grump. The 525 KTM engine is very powerful and has broad torque (and is just as fast as the 700 unless the 700 gets some mods) Not only that, it has IRS with Fox suspension all around, douglas rims, maxxis tires, and in my opinion it's a real nice bike. I feel very comfortable and roomy on it.

[Muzzgit]

I talk regularly to a quad mechanic who has a customer with the IRS outlaw. It has blown the engine twice since new (he races similar to BAJA) and it chews out the rubber boots on the rear uni joints which is a pain in the butt to repair.

[MtnEX]

Both of the final dealers I was working with were Kawasaki / Yamaha / Polaris dealers....

And I will tell you... IF I could have left my better judgment in the truck, I would have came home with an Outlaw 525 IRS.

I almost came home long ago with an Outlaw 500 IRS because the value was right... but the dealer messed up the deal.


I think they are very nice bikes, especially for trail riders... like me... riding rough eastern XC woods trails...

I cuss myself for not doing it every time I HIGH-CENTER on the rear skid... and every time I get a hard side-to-side kick from one rear tire hitting something...

And I love my other Polaris too. But I am not a brand loyal guy... and in the end I couldn't bring myself to... because of many things, and one of them was VALUE.

I wanted the combination of the KTM 525 and the IRS... and thought both were OK... and the 08's were great looking to me too...

But it was the rest of it on past what seemed like a good idea. Actually the Polaris part of the bike is what did it for me... Much as I like my other Polaris, I just don't feel like the fit-n-finish is as well executed as it is on the Japanese sport quads.

The final comfort, ergos and confidence was not there. My man-parts did not like the way the front of the seat curled upwards to the tank... The bars and controls were terrible... and the feel of the bike was sort of clunky rather than tight...

Also, I knew if I got it, it would become an immediate money pit... I know I would have laid a wad into suspension, protection and trying to keep up or make the moving parts more reliable.

And when I compared apples to apples on the straight axle versions, there was no way I was going Outlaw over the KFX 450R.