Check out this upgrade for braking

[250Renvy]

I just picked this link up off the 250R site and had a look at their quad products.

They have stuff for the 400ex so this would work for the 250R with 400ex spindles. But WOW what a price tag.

http://www.beringer.fr/

[cartman0102]

Excellent quality, top!

Beringer at a factory in the USA now!

[danhung11]

what currency is that in the unit price column? cause $1,962.17 USD is farging ridiculuous. :ermm:

[Nahum]

This are all retail prices without tax! The prices are shown in Euros (EUR)!
So you have to consider the EUR --> USD exchange rate!!! It´s even worse!

The complete braking system (front and rear) costs 1,962.17 Euros!
This are approx. 2,766.66 USD!!!!!!!

But I can tell you it´s only hype! You don´t get some extra hp when you mount beringer :D

Just for you guys some exclusive photos ... I´m sorry I can´t post larger photos


http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8581,sherco1jpgKV9HI.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8582,sherco2jpgCYSZI.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8583,sherco3jpg4HT73.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8584,sherco4jpgSZQXD.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8585,sherco5jpg2641W.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8586,sherco6jpgPNB77.jpg

http://www.bilderspace.de/bild.php/8587,sherco7jpgCIPKZ.jpg

[cartman0102]

You only need the master cylinder!

The braking is transformed!

A 1 finger you block the wheels without worry!

The effort is reduced by over 30%!

The best investment for your brake!

You find a $ 400!

The kit is very expensive and not adapted to cross too!

It slows too much! We must save this for races asphalt!

To land the master cylinder enough!

I've made to compensate for the retirement of stirrups trxr who 20ans!

After a LTR I was disappointed with the braking. I am now 100% satisfied!

I really recommended for long runs unless it is really tiring!


Here in Europe all the major drivers use.

Warnier fitted in to one on the DS for some courses at home.

Sorry for my English!

[cartman0102]

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8861/p1250510.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/p1250510.jpg/)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5922/p1250501.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/p1250501.jpg/)

[Nahum]

They also use beringer for MX!
The Ligier-Quad earned the 2nd spot at the French Nationals at St. Mamet. Here are 2 photos ...

http://www.quadlib.com/quad-cross-2009/st-mamet/photos/images/quad-cross-st-mamet-82.jpg

http://www.quadlib.com/quad-cross-2009/st-mamet/photos/images/quad-cross-st-mamet-25.jpg

[8686]

Dude!

[danhung11]

That's some crazy stuff, never seen anything like that before. It makes sense though, I am sure it takes quite a bit of load off the front end. Then again, I bet those shocks heat up quite a bit being as small as they are.

What I got from cartman's response, is you only need to the master cylinder. It is a one finger pull job now, and they brakes are are now better than a stock LTR. I like my 400EX front master cylinder and ASV lever, it is pretty easy to pull as well and costs about $60 USD.

What about comparing the braking power of the LTR to the dual piston front TRX250R OEM calipers?

Thanks,
Dan

[Nahum]

ATVriders.com writes that the calipers from the new KTM models are phenomenal.
They have Magura ...

http://www.atvriders.com/atvreviews/ktm-2009-505sx-450sx-motocross-atv-review-p2.html

Maybe they fit on the 250R ...

[zedicus00]

want a massive upgrade, grab a master cylinder off of a sport bike. most CBR ones work, offer adjustable and easy pull levers.

the calipers on the R dont get much better, even the ones on the 450R are basically just identical. the EX brakes suck.

as for the suspension, that system actually works really well, its basically what F1 and kart cars use. it saves a lot of weight compared to standard shocks.

[cartman0102]

They are a very can use calipers in MX!

It's too expensive!

Ligier is on the original equipment!

100% Made in France (so he put the brakes on french!

In many races on asphalt is used in europe!

In MX it does the master cylinder.

My trxr slows as a stock LTR.

Before I had a master cylinder stock LTR450 + lever ASV F3.

This is not comparable!

[rustyATV]

Interesting front end on that quad: push-rod front suspension and leading tie-rods.

I was designing a quad in my head that head leading tie rods.

[thedeatons]

You cannot just grab any master cylinder off of a sportbike and have it work better. There is a science to it. Our OEM master cylinder's piston is a 1/2" size. The new TRX450R is also a 1/2 size, but upgraded in appearance, and parts. They work great.

Deviating to different piston sizes in the master cylinders can cause issues. Do your homework before switching.

James

[cartman0102]

The model for atv is 12mm.

The same diameter as the original! :rolleyes: :p

[Nahum]

Just one more information:
The engine of the Ligier-Quad is a Sherco engine
http://www.sherco.at/

http://www.sherco.at/enduro/09/510i.jpg

[thedeatons]

Quote:

The model for atv is 12mm.

The same diameter as the original!



THIS INFORMATION IS INACCURATE. I have an OEM in my hands right now. It is a 1/2 piston, stamped on the outside, just like the TRX450R model.

Most sportbikes use metric piston measurements, such as 11mm, 12mm, 13, etc, but the TRX250R uses a 1/2" master cylinder piston. Check your information again....

P.S. 1/2" = 12.7mm

James

[cartman0102]

You give me reason!

I tell you that originally made 12mm, you answer me he does 12.7mm you play with words!

At BERINGER you either 12mm, 14mm, 16mm, ... So the 12mm is suitable for an ATV!

I know the products BERINGER even when I know at least what I'm talking about!


BERINGER call like that you check my sources!
+33 477 768 009

[zedicus00]

you guys really. the SIZE of the piston really is only about 1/4 of the entire story. theres also things like stroke length, plus the pin location and how much leverage is generated. not to mention getting a design that isnt 25 years old.

so yes pretty much ANY fairly modern street bike master cylinder will stop you with more precision and more clamping force (more fluid pushed through the line) with less effort from your hand.

[thedeatons]

I understand that leverage is a factor also, as is the newer design, but there is a misconception that you can find a nice sportbike lever that "looks neat!" and it will stop you better.

If you read about braking, and master cylinder piston sizes, you will find that even 1mm makes a difference. Going from an 11mm to a 12mm is a large difference in the way the brakes work, and feel. This is just a simple fact, and anyone can try it.

There is a .7mm difference between a 12mm and a 1/2" piston. You cannot round numbers and be accurate. I was being accurate. There is no need to give off false information, misleading someone who is attempting to learn about this stuff. If the OEM master cylinder had said 12mm, then I would have typed that, but in reality it says 1/2", therefore that is the most accurate. Ask an engineer if .7mm makes a difference.

You guys are talking about thousands of dollars in braking systems, so one would think you would want to be accurate with the numbers.... sheesh....

Perhaps something is being lost in translation here.

James

[zedicus00]

i dont think you read my last post at all. you couldnt have. your only comparing piston diameter. that is like saying a blaster is just as fast as a 250R because the piston is the same diameter in both.

basically, it is wrong. now im not saying piston size does not make a difference, and yes .7mm COULD make a difference. if EVERY THING else was identical.

you on the other hand, are looking at NOTHING other then piston diameter.

[thedeatons]

Nah.... I read your post, and even acknowledged it in my first couple lines. You are absolutely right, the leverage points, lever length, and quality of the new;y manufactured parts make a huge difference.

I was speaking to the guy saying 12mm and 1/2" were the same. They are simpy not. From an engineering standpoint that is huge. He was also saying the 250R piston was a 12mm. This is false information, and we don't need incorrect information here. What if someone read that then bought a Nissin rebuild kit for a 12mm? It wouldn't fit!

Of course there are other factors. You are absolutely correct. The other posts were incorrect from where I stand.

James

[cartman0102]

The information I get is: A 12mm master cylinder BERINGER actually works better than a new OEM 1 / 2 "!

That you can not contradict me without having tested!

I doubted a long time and I was chosen by the price!

I am not disappointed at all!

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Nahum
They also use beringer for MX!
The Ligier-Quad earned the 2nd spot at the French Nationals at St. Mamet. Here are 2 photos ...

http://www.quadlib.com/quad-cross-2009/st-mamet/photos/images/quad-cross-st-mamet-82.jpg

http://www.quadlib.com/quad-cross-2009/st-mamet/photos/images/quad-cross-st-mamet-25.jpg

whoa! Thats a damn cool quad!

[thedeatons]

Here is some info about master cylinder piston sizes, just to get everyone on the same page. This is why I was so insistent on making sure the post stays educational:

A common problem in many applications is a spongy pedal. Brake systems inherently have slack in the system that must be taken up before work can be done by the pads. Slack comes from two factors: retracted pistons must be moved back out, and misalignment caused by deflection in the axle and housing mis-alignment. One of the most common misconceptions is that a larger master cylinder will create more pressure. While a larger master cylinder creates a larger displacement, it takes more force to create the same pressure as a smaller bore. While a larger master cylinder will take up system slack with less pedal stroke, it will take more force to create the same system pressure. The result after adding the larger master cylinder is a harder pedal which needs much more pedal pressure to create the same amount of braking force. For instance, moving from a 3/4" master cylinder to a 1" requires 77.7% more force on the push rod.

Taken from this link:

http://www.markwilliams.com/braketech.aspx

More:

http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/brakes4.htm

http://www.automedia.com/Bring_It_To_A_Grinding_Halt/pht20080501gh/2

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0601phr_braking_systems/index.html


Many people in the sportbike world are trying different master cylinders. This happens most when the bikes are "stunted", and wrecked often. This brings the need for another master cylinder, and some people have tried swapping anything and everything onto their clip on handlebars. More times than not this changes the braking effect for the worse. There are times however that advantages can be found by using a different size master cylinder bore size. Use the links above to learn what going smaller, and bigger, does for the braking feel, and the braking effect on the rotors.

James

[thedeatons]

On the flipside, my mistake for hijacking the thread.

The braking components look nice. They aren't really for me though. Lots of money to go on an ATV that may be in a wreck due to a number of factors. They look very exotic, like they belong on a nice sportbike.

The quad looks nice. Is there a weight penalty for the front suspension though? Yes the shocks are shorter, but there are the levers, and the linkages attached to the a-arms.... The levers would aid in tuning the variable shock rate, but would a typical shock setup have an advantage here?

Just curious.

James

[cartman0102]

The quad looks nice. Is there a weight penalty for the front suspension though? Yes the shocks are shorter, but there are the levers, and the linkages attached to the a-arms.... The levers would aid in tuning the variable shock rate, but would a typical shock setup have an advantage here?

Just curious.

James [/B]


The only thing I know, there have 3Kg win on the train to proceed with the system.

It also recentralize the masses.

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250100228_ligier_03_498.jpg (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100229.html)

http://pics.imagup.com/04/1250100240_ligier_04_170.jpg (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100240.html)

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250100250_ligier_05_119.jpg (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100251.html)

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250100266_P1130696.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100266.html)

http://pics.imagup.com/04/1250100280_P1130699.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100280.html)

http://ups.imagup.com/04/1250100290_p1130700em1.jpg (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100290.html)

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250100309_P1130702.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100309.html)

http://pics.imagup.com/04/1250100324_P1130703.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100324.html)

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250100335_p1130704ty2.jpg (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100335.html)

http://ups.imagup.com/04/1250100348_P1130707.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100348.html)

http://pics.imagup.com/04/1250100361_P1130708.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250100361.html)

[Honda 250r 001]

where are these quads being manufactured? and does bs stand for bull ****? lol, i think that front end set up would just break with a simple double.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
Where are these quads being manufactured?


Really?

------------

Cartman - where are those pictures from (a show, showroom, or is that yours - Are they using KTM motors?)

[cartman0102]

France in Europe.

http://pics.imagup.com/04/1250177377_tilly-0329-094252_IMG_0710.jpg (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250177377.html)

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250177430_IMG_9078.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250177430.html)

http://uploads.imagup.com/10/1250177450_IMG_9058.JPG (http://www.imagup.com/pics/1250177450.html)

[Honda 250r 001]

those are really cool! never seen one of those.

[Nahum]

@Cartman
Have you also been to the Eicma in Milan 2007?

[cartman0102]

Originally posted by Nahum
@Cartman
Have you also been to the Eicma in Milan 2007?

No, I was at the show from 2 wheels to Paris.

[Nahum]

@Cartman

Ah, ok. I thought you were there cause you have pretty much the same photos of the Ligier Quad as I have ...
Ligier also exposed the Quad at the Eicma dealer show 2007.