Coming Soon to a Universal Health Care System Near You!!

[F-16Guy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,536594,00.html

[Quad18star]

What does this story have to do with Universal Health Care?

Cremation and Funeral ceremonies are not part of Universal Health Care .

Also if you read the continuation of the story, the council spokesperson apologized and a refund was issued... but none the less this is not a Health Care issue.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by Quad18star
What does this story have to do with Universal Health Care?

This is an example of the kind of treatment you get when things are run by "Councils" and other bureaucratic entities. The statement "Officials at the crematorium, run by a local English council" suggests to me that it isn't a private business. Maybe I'm wrong.

And do you think that fine was reversed because it was an honest mistake or because they got caught and suffered some bad press? I'm thinking the latter.

[Guy400]

It's a little wordy but an interesting read. I got this first hand from my doctor just this morning.

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life &n bsp;treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
* PG 502 Line 5-18 Government builds the “Center” to conduct, support, & synthesize research to define our HealthCare Services.
* PG 502 Section 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. – Hello Big Brother – Literally.
* PG 503 Line 13-19 Government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records.
* PG 503 Line 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the US including your data.
* PG 504 Line 6-10 The “Center” will collect data both published & unpublished (that means public & your private info)
* PG 506 Line 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data
* PG 518 Line 21- 25 The Commission will have input from HealthCare consumer reps – Can you say unions & ACORN?
* PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund set up. More taxes for ALL.
* PGs 525-620 deals with the Govt basically taking over nursing homes, long-term care facilities (think assisted living) through regulations of the facilities, the owners of sd facilities, the employees of sd facilities and even the land owners of that sd facilities reside on. Additionally as you read these 90 pages you can come to the conclusion that any Health related svcs will be determined and rationed by the Govt for our senior citizens and others in nursing homes. This one post should do enough to raise awareness of the control the Govt is exerting over the older population of American citizens.
* PG 620 Line 1-9 The Government will define, prioritize, and nationalize your Health Care Services.
* PG 621 Lines 20-25 Government will define what Quality means in HealthCare. Since when does Government know about quality?
* PG 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the quality Standards Government will transfer $$ from to other Government Trust Funds. More Taxes.
* PG 624 “Quality” measures shall be designed to assess outcomes & functional status of patients.
* PG 628 Section 1443 Government will give “Multi-Stake Holders” Pre-Rule Making input into Selection of “Quality” Measures.
* PG 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups including Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HealthCare quality.
* PG 632 Lines 14-25 The Government may implement any “Quality measure” of HealthCare Services as they see fit.
* PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed “Quality Measures” for Physician Services & Dialysis Services.
* PG 635 – 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision – Government wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Government.
* PG 654-659 Public Reporting on Health Care-Associated Infections – Looks okay.
* PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency – Government will tell you where your residency will be, thus where you’ll live.
* PG 676-686 Government will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, including teaching hospitals.
* PG 686-700 Increased Funding to Fight Waste, Fraud, and Abuse. You mean the Government with an $18 mil website?
* PGs 701-704 Section 1619 If your part of HealthCare plan that isn’t in Government HealthCare Exchange but you qualify for Federal aid, no payment.
* PG 705-709 SEC. 1128 If Secretary gets complaints (ACORN) on HealthCare provider or supplier, Government can do background check.
* PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HealthCare providers/suppliers admittance into HealthCare Exchange.
* Pg 719-720 Section 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable medical equipment or home medical services MUST be enrolled in Medicare.
* PG 722 Section 1639 Government Mandates Doctors must have face-to-face with=2 0patient to certify patient for Home Health Services.
* PG 724 23-25 PG 725 1-5 The same Government certifications will apply to medicaid & CHIP (your kids) Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforcement purposes, the Secretary of Health & Human Services will give Attorney General access to ALL data.
* PG 724 Lines 16-22 Government reserves right to apply face-to-face certification for patient to ANY other HealthCare service.
* PG 740-757 Government sets guidelines for subsidizing the uninsured (That’s your tax dollars peeps) Pg 757-762 Fed Government will shift burden of payments to Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)
* PG 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they provide services without regard to national origin Pg 765 Section 1711 Government will require Preventative Services including vaccines. (Choice?)
* Pg 768 Section 1713 Government – Nurse Home Visitation Services (Hello union paybacks)
* Pg 769 11-14 Nurse Home Visit Services include-economic self-sufficiency, employment advancement, school-readiness.
* Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services – “increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.” Government Abortions anyone?
* Pg 770 SEC 1714 Federal Government mandates eligibility for State Family Planning Services. Say abortion & State Sovereign.
* Pg 789-797 Government will set & mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs will brought to market. Bye innovation
* Pgs 797-800 SEC. 1744 PAYMENTS for grad medical education. The government will=2 0now control Drs education. PG 801 Sec 1751 The Government will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!
* Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc. required to register. Government takes over private payment system.
* PG 820-824 Sec 1801 Government will identify individuals ineligible for subsidies. Will access all personal finances.
* Pg 824-829 SEC. 1802. Government Sets up Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund. Another tax black hole.
* PG 829-833 Government will impose a fee on ALL private health insurance plans including self insured to pay for Trust Fund!
* PG 835 11-13 fees imposed by Government for Trust Fund shall be treated as if they were taxes.
* Pg 838-840 Government will design & implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids & families expecting kids.
* PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Program includes Government coming into your house & telling you how to parent!!!
* Pg 859 Government will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes thats Billion.
* PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HealthCare for 2 years for part loan repayment.
* PG 876-892 The Government takes over the education of our Medical students and Drs.
* PG 898 The Government will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps. to ensure supply of public health professionals.
* PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.< br> * PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of officers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.
* PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians.
* PG 901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HealthCare Draft?
* PG 910 The Government will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.
* PG 913-914 Government starts a HealthCare affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.
* PG 915 SEC. 2251. Government MANDATES Cultural & linguistic competency training for HealthCare professionals.
* Pg 932 The Government will establish Preventative & Wellness Trust fund – intial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion.
* PG 935 21-22 Government will identify specific goals & objectives for prevention & wellness activities. Control You!!
* PG 936 Government will develop “Healthy People & National Public Health Performance Standards” Tell me what to eat?
* PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Government? Offices of Surgeon General -Public Health Services, Minority Health, Women’s Health
* PG 950- 980 BIG Government core public health infrastructure includes workforce capacity, lab systems; health information systems, etc
* PG 993 Government will establish school based health clinics. Your kids wont have a chance.
* PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment. Say Government Brainwash!
* PG 1001 The Government will establish a National Medical Device=2 0Registry. Will you be tracked?
* PG 1003 9-11 National Medical Dev Reg ‘‘(iii) other postmarket device surveillance activities” you WILL be tracked.
* PG 1018 States give up some of their State Sovereignty.

[F-16Guy]

That almost made my head EXPLODE!!! This thing is scarey.

[8my_Cash]

hmmm, that HUGE post isn't biased at all.....

[F-16Guy]

I remember reading somewhere that, in a study, cynical people were right far more often than optimistic people because they saw through the fluff and always looked at the worst possible scenarios. I agree that it was probably a little biased, but being a cynic, I tend to believe that the above post would be the more likely ultimate outcome. I'd love to be optimistic about it and dream of a Utopian outcome, but considering whos going to be running it, I know better.

[ProspectorJim]

I don't know what to worry about more, this or that Obama is appointing numerous people with the title "Tsar" that have power and do not have to answer to the congress. We're heading for some bad times.

[8my_Cash]

True True, im not sure how I feel about it, i mean hopefully it implements well and works better than the other countries that have it. I mean if we look at other nations with Universal Health and notice thier mistakes and try to improve upon them, hopefully it all turns out well.

:)


I still think that what makes American healthcare great are the education of the healthcare system and all the innovation that our healthcare does. Not that its privatized.

if not..... BOHICA

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
I remember reading somewhere that, in a study, cynical people were right far more often than optimistic people because they saw through the fluff and always looked at the worst possible scenarios. I agree that it was probably a little biased, but being a cynic, I tend to believe that the above post would be the more likely ultimate outcome. I'd love to be optimistic about it and dream of a Utopian outcome, but considering whos going to be running it, I know better. So are you indicating that we have NOT arrived in the Garden of Eden ??? Oh, the Shock of it all !!!:eek2: :devil: :eek2: :devil:
(and if it's not apparent,... I'm agreeing with you 100%)

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
True True, im not sure how I feel about it, i mean hopefully it implements well and works better than the other countries that have it. I mean if we look at other nations with Universal Health and notice thier mistakes and try to improve upon them, hopefully it all turns out well.

:)


I still think that what makes American healthcare great are the education of the healthcare system and all the innovation that our healthcare does. Not that its privatized.

if not..... BOHICA
The reason that our medical community is the model for the world is that our system, flawed as it is, allows doctors and researchers freedom to innovate, and it provides strong monetary incentive for people that invest the time and capitol to acheive the medical breakthroughs this country is famous for. If it's failed in other modern industrialized countries, it'll probably fail here, too.

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
True True, im not sure how I feel about it, i mean hopefully it implements well and works better than the other countries that have it. I mean if we look at other nations with Universal Health and notice thier mistakes and try to improve upon them, hopefully it all turns out well.

:)


I still think that what makes American healthcare great are the education of the healthcare system and all the innovation that our healthcare does. Not that its privatized.

if not..... BOHICA

We're talking about the Government here. When was the last time something was implemented well and past mistakes were taken into consideration.

Also those good things about American healthcare only happened because it is privatized. There's money in privatized healthcare. Since there's money, there will be competition for that money and with competition comes advancements in quality and cost. There's no money in Government run healthcare, especially if its being run by a government that is spending theoretical dollars right now.

[derekhonda]

This is a scary time indeed. I really hope he gets put in his place on this healthcare fiasco, while there needs to be changes, a complete overhaul is ****ing rediculous.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
hmmm, that HUGE post isn't biased at all.....

...and you obviously have not read any part of the bill. :rolleyes:

[Pappy]

Medicare is Fubar
Medicaide is Fubar
Social Security is Fubar
The VA System is Fubar




I will stop being cynical when the government starts having a proven track record of not ****ing up things.

[Kevslatvin]

Originally posted by Pappy


I will stop being cynical when the government starts having a proven track record of not ****ing up things.

Amen brother.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Pappy
Medicare is Fubar
Medicaide is Fubar
Social Security is Fubar
The VA System is Fubar




I will stop being cynical when the government starts having a proven track record of not ****ing up things.

...just to add to their f'd up resume...

Fannie Mae is Fubar
Freddy Mac is Fubar
Cash for Clunkers is Fubar

Has the gov't run ANY socialism (I mean social) program's that do not need a bailout or are on the brink of going bankrupt?

Now they want to control a system that is about 1/6 - 1/7 of our total GDP?????

I'm not sure about everyone on this board, but I attended a town hall meeting with our local congressman (Tim Murphy) - I would suggest that EVERYONE gets involved and starts to speak up about this crap. If you do not, this country will never be the same.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 8my_Cash



Not that its privatized.



What!?! :huh

May I ask what experience you have with the private sector in terms of business or health care?

What supports your statement I quoted above?

[MOFO]

A good summary of HR 3200 - similar to what Guy posted earlier.

http://www.liberty.edu/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by Guy400
It's a little wordy but an interesting read. I got this first hand from my doctor just this morning.


wow... that is some serious right wingnut wackness..


this is HR3200.. online and visible to all..
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

spend some time verifying those points youve noted..

i have not read much of it and im sure ill find many things that dont feel right and id like clarification. but i looked up most of what you posted and it appears to be "just a point of view".


look.. what do you think happens now?
your case is evaluated and judged based on your value to the company youre paying money to now.
there are few limitations with insurance companies now, that allow them to deny costs, raise premiums, change carriers, so on and so on.. all to maximize their profits, not your coverage.

by the way, the estimated cost is about 1 trillion over 10years right? isnt that what we've all heard??
check out actual facts on the current US healthcare costs from the people who actually know:
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation.1 Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1

In 2008, employer health insurance premiums increased by 5.0 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.2


the staus quo is by far worse and has been ignored.. something needs to be done..
perhaps a tally of doctors/senators/representatives receiving contributions/gifts from proponents for the current health insurance industry would at least show the power of purchased honesty and opinion.

how many of you have worked at a job for the state or federal govt. and knew that you were receiving "prevailing wage"??
im sure you knew the same job in the civilian market would be many times less.. 50+ per hour to the govt. when you wouldnt charge a "regular person" 20 per hour.
this is part of the problem..
it seems everyone complains about govt waste, but has no problem with it so long as theyre the benificiary.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
wow... that is some serious right wingnut wackness..


this is HR3200.. online and visible to all..
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

spend some time verifying those points youve noted..

i have not read much of it and im sure ill find many things that dont feel right and id like clarification. but i looked up most of what you posted and it appears to be "just a point of view".



Did you read the link I posted? It takes you right to the section of the bill and gives a pretty accurate summary, which is in line with what Guy posted.

Can you point out some of the area's that appear to be someone's "point of view "/"serious right wingnut wackness" and present the other side - or as you might see it?

I've read a good bit of the bill and various "cliff notes" versions before the town hall meeting I attended a couple weeks ago - I wish most of our representatives can say that. :rolleyes:

I do not think anyone is stating that our health care system is perfect, but what we are saying is that blindly turning the keys over to the gov't is not the solution, especially after looking over HR3200 and reviewing the gov't history or resume related to social programs.

Lets discuss this bill at hand...

[Wheelie]

Originally posted by Pappy
Medicare is Fubar
Medicaide is Fubar
Social Security is Fubar
The VA System is Fubar




I will stop being cynical when the government starts having a proven track record of not ****ing up things.

Took the words right out of my mouth.


An interesting fact that a lot of people don't know. The gov't took over a Brothel in Nevada at one point in History, under gov't control it went broke as does everything the gov't takes over.

It goes to show how screwed up uncle sams business sense is when they go broke selling sex.

Our president is a Socialist, his spending is out of control and he needs to be stopped. There's a lot going on right now that's not good for the country or the people living here.

[Wheelie]

One more thing:


Obama's similarities to Hilter are astonishing and downright frightening. I advise anyone to do some serious homework on Hitler and his rise to power. People need to be aware of what's happening in our country and where we are headed.


PS--Boycott GM!! Support Ford!