I need some holeshot power....

[craigmacphee]

As most of you know, I have an 09 DS450 x MX. So far, I have cut the pink wire, installed a motoworks full exhaust system, racing ECU, removed my lid, and installed a KandN filter. I am lacking holeshot power and need some RELIABLE upgrades.

I have not had the clutch upgraded, so I am not certain that I am actually lacking power. It may be that the clutch is just slipping. I know it squeals like heck.

Clutch aside, does anyone have any recommendations that I could buy and install before my next race. I am 2nd in overall points and would need to have it installed by August 23rd.

Thanks for any and all advice in advance. Craig

[ltr311]

To be honest there is nothing you can do besides build the head. My honest opinon would be to call Motoworks and talk to Ty about getting the head they run on their worcs race bikes. Comes complete with reshaping of head, custom one off cam grind, port matching of 52mm tb and intake runner as well as injector. CAn be milled to run a touch more compression also. Expect gains around 5whp and 3ftlbs.

Thats my plan if I keep this machine. All the other gains are little to none. The power is in the headwork. The other ds I helped put together gained hardly nothing with piston and web mid cams. It needed head work for those mods to benefit. So why not just put the head on first and call it good.

If there is anyway you can come across a brp race intake or dasa intake do. Those help more than anything you can bolt on next to full system.

Good luck.

[TNT]

Yeah you can start upgrading your intake track w/ a 50 mm throttle body you get from the race dept, they make a metal intake or if you wait just a little while the FCI intake and K$N filter we had made is the best on the market, you could get a port job and have them blend the elbow by the manifold, a bigger injector, web cams, a 500cc big bore or 450 high compression piston and race gas.....you'll be smoking fast.....PC 5 is a good investment it made a big difference on a YFZr.

Call John @ 316-706-3658 for details, JSR Performance. Tell em Terry sent you.

Hole shot is not just about the quad, it's a large part rider and it starts at the line. There are ALOT of factors from starting and shifting, throttle control, clutch control, how you get out of the gate, to get better you just got to practice starts, reaction time excercises, use your peripherial vison at the gate, pre-load your drive train, lean back get traction since you can have all the power in the world but if you as a rider can't get it to the ground it does no good. Just remember your trying to get from point a-b in the fastest time you can and with the least amount of resistance.

[joeyds450x]

im getting a high compression piston (13.1 i think)....put in as we speak.. they tell me itll pull way more on the bottom end but well see next race i guess, i was goin to get the head work done but that was another grand so im gna wait 4 winter... im a lil short on the funds now that theres a kid on the way... lol


i see the pc5 will only worh on the 09 bikes not the 08s.. :ermm:

[florentino]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
As most of you know, I have an 09 DS450 x MX. So far, I have cut the pink wire, installed a motoworks full exhaust system, racing ECU, removed my lid, and installed a KandN filter. I am lacking holeshot power and need some RELIABLE upgrades.

I have not had the clutch upgraded, so I am not certain that I am actually lacking power. It may be that the clutch is just slipping. I know it squeals like heck.

Clutch aside, does anyone have any recommendations that I could buy and install before my next race. I am 2nd in overall points and would need to have it installed by August 23rd.

Thanks for any and all advice in advance. Craig

i got the holeshot on a stock 2008 ds vs race bikes like ltr yamahas at a cmc race , i did have new holeshots the best tires..
i am good cause of my 195 lbs it helps, i just put a new pipe on my bike and i can take of on 3rd gear if its too sandy or loose dirt.
i also put a little race gas not for the horse power but it helps the bike run cooler and also put header wrap so heat dont go to the gas tank.. and a keep my fan runnig all the time,

[florentino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdY2B8Yz0zA

change your oil a lot , u put a semi sintetic and cluch is working fine since last year

[SilverBomb]

Originally posted by florentino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdY2B8Yz0zA

change your oil a lot , u put a semi sintetic and cluch is working fine since last year

Damn, that was a Sweet holeshot Florentino!

[florentino]

Originally posted by SilverBomb
Damn, that was a Sweet holeshot Florentino!

all stock at the time , its all in the rider and skill there was a 20k $$ trx250 and a 480 yamaha they where getting the holeshot before also theres a gilr with a ltr gets the holeshot all the time but she has a ##^&&*&% of cash on her machine theres a guy on a 450 yamaha that has all the mods on the motor and was out running the pros on the gate only, i was once in hollister hills and this guy had so much money on hes ds we where drag racing on the dirt and i had supermoto tires , he had stock new tires and i won every time .. pros are doing good not cause of the bike , cause they are good, look at goodman gets holeshots all the time and gets pass alot.. to me its all endurance skill and riding smart..

[TNT]

Originally posted by florentino
all stock at the time , its all in the rider and skill there was a 20k $$ trx250 and a 480 yamaha they where getting the holeshot before also theres a gilr with a ltr gets the holeshot all the time but she has a ##^&&*&% of cash on her machine theres a guy on a 450 yamaha that has all the mods on the motor and was out running the pros on the gate only, i was once in hollister hills and this guy had so much money on hes ds we where drag racing on the dirt and i had supermoto tires , he had stock new tires and i won every time .. pros are doing good not cause of the bike , cause they are good, look at goodman gets holeshots all the time and gets pass alot.. to me its all endurance skill and riding smart..

That was pretty good, it look like despite your efforts to lean fwd you still wheeled when you shifted I’m guessing? You really don’t want to wheelie, you loose acceleration. Newton’s law of physics, F=MA, or A=F/M….If your mass (M) has a force vector pointing up instead of straight ahead you will loose acceleration. You may try and slow down the rebound on your shocks to keep it from shifting back and wheeling....but not to a point where you compromise the rebound needed for whoops etc.

[florentino]

Originally posted by TNT
That was pretty good, it look like despite your efforts to lean fwd you still wheeled when you shifted I’m guessing? You really don’t want to wheelie, you loose acceleration. Newton’s law of physics, F=MA, or A=F/M….If your mass (M) has a force vector pointing up instead of straight ahead you will loose acceleration. You may try and slow down the rebound on your shocks to keep it from shifting back and wheeling....but not to a point where you compromise the rebound needed for whoops etc.

not all the time your formula works.. its easy ..everybody was burning the tires going no where, it helps to be heavy on loose dirt but yes good eye .. i have more videos to show .. i have a fair race in turlock california i may do pro on a stock quad ..

[TNT]

Originally posted by florentino
not all the time your formula works.. its easy ..everybody was burning the tires going no where, it helps to be heavy on loose dirt but yes good eye .. i have more videos to show .. i have a fair race in turlock california i may do pro on a stock quad ..

I seen light guys do better than heavy ones on loose dirt, not all the time YOUR formula works. :D

I seen some that never get hole shots but always win, others that get it and can't maintain the lead, then the ones that get it and win too(rare)...

When it comes to hole shots tho your right only so much logic applies sometimes it's down right luck especially with 20 quads going into it.

[florentino]

hes one on a yamaha all i got is a je piston and pipe and won the race.. at the finals

[TNT]

Back to helping Graig out w/his can-am he's just started racing remember?

You racers help me out here.......

Concrete starts starting in second so you don't spin tires is usually better, you of course want to clean the starting pad w/a broom and have a buddy lift your quad so you can burn your tires out a little right b4 the start, sometimes lower tire pressure will keep you from spinning. Soft compound tires work better.

Dirt starts some prefer starting in first since you can hook up better in dirt, there of course fill and pack the ruts......no need to burn tires. Hard compound tires work better.

You may already know all this but just incase you didn't....:D

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by TNT
Back to helping Graig out w/his can-am he's just started racing remember?

You racers help me out here.......

Concrete starts starting in second so you don't spin tires is usually better, you of course want to clean the starting pad w/a broom and have a buddy lift your quad so you can burn your tires out a little right b4 the start, sometimes lower tire pressure will keep you from spinning. Soft compound tires work better.

Dirt starts some prefer starting in first since you can hook up better in dirt, there of course fill and pack the ruts......no need to burn tires. Hard compound tires work better.

You may already know all this but just incase you didn't....:D

Softer tires work better in soft dirt too, hard tires wear better but that is the only advantage of a harder compound.

If you have a full Motoworks system and do not have the EFI yet, get it. You are def running lean. I have the Motoworks EFI and complete system and the lid removed and the power gains were noticable over the HMF full system w the lid removed and the pink wire mod.
At the start of my 1st race w the motoworks setup I was wondering why I felt like I was holding on to the quad tighter and feeling like the quad was wearing me down faster, it was because the quad was much stronger in the low and mid rpm ranges over the previous setup w the HMF system.

Unless you are up against modded engines, a three mod DS450 should be enough to stay or beat any other 450 on the track.

Get an FMI for that bike, you will see a difference.

[craigmacphee]

Thanks for all of the great advice. I am looking in to new tires as we speak. Also, I saw that TNT was talking about the PC5 in another post. Do they make it for the 09 ds 450 x mx yet? All they have listed is for the 08. Thanks, Craig

[craigmacphee]

By the way, when I DO manage to pull a holeshot, I am usually gone with the DS power. I've only been caught from behind once since my 2nd week of riding it. But, there are still 2 guys I REALLY need to pull the holeshot on because once they get out front, they can run like hell. I guess that's 90% of the game though.

[Mr. Big Time]

Originally posted by TNT
That was pretty good, it look like despite your efforts to lean fwd you still wheeled when you shifted I’m guessing? You really don’t want to wheelie, you loose acceleration. Newton’s law of physics, F=MA, or A=F/M….If your mass (M) has a force vector pointing up instead of straight ahead you will loose acceleration. You may try and slow down the rebound on your shocks to keep it from shifting back and wheeling....but not to a point where you compromise the rebound needed for whoops etc.

Sorry tnt but I have taken pro classes and they all tell me that the best way to get a whole shot is to get the front end up, you get mass traction that way. I wish I had a video from when I got the whole shot in Havasu, I holeshoted the line of 30 with a wheelie and it was a nice holeshot from what I was told, not one of them kind where I just barely got it. Newton can say what he wants but untill he races an atv, i'm not listening to that.

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
Sorry tnt but I have taken pro classes and they all tell me that the best way to get a whole shot is to get the front end up, you get mass traction that way. I wish I had a video from when I got the whole shot in Havasu, I holeshoted the line of 30 with a wheelie and it was a nice holeshot from what I was told, not one of them kind where I just barely got it. Newton can say what he wants but untill he races an atv, i'm not listening to that.

how can doing a wheelie be a good thing at the start? John Natalie uses a holeshot devices to keep the front end down.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
Sorry tnt but I have taken pro classes and they all tell me that the best way to get a whole shot is to get the front end up, you get mass traction that way. I wish I had a video from when I got the whole shot in Havasu, I holeshoted the line of 30 with a wheelie and it was a nice holeshot from what I was told, not one of them kind where I just barely got it. Newton can say what he wants but untill he races an atv, i'm not listening to that.

I guess you got me there, I failed to mention the lack of friction of the front tires can offset the lack of acceleration. Make no mistake, I don't care what pro or who is who, there were two great scientist NOONE can argue with, one was Newton and his 3 basic laws of physics, two was Albert Einstein law of relativity.

Heres what you do as I have w/my son and you don't need a physist or pro to teach you, altho it doesn't hurt having a trained eye or guidance. Get a stop watch go to the track and time your holeshots trying different approaches. Time a wheelie, and not, and see for yourself what works best for you. There are so many factors here with mass and weight distribution, friction, wind resistance, power, torque, tranny, technique, it's hard to say but the clock don't lie ask Albert.....

:D But don't go so fast you go back in time and the clock reverses! lol!

Try different starting gates since you never know what your gate pick will be...........I stand in the way and make my son go around me as if I were a quad since in reality that can happen or set up barrels and go around them and time it. Set up a marker and see how close you can get to the holeshot without breaking.....K, thats all I can tell ya without giving away all my secrets......It really helps alot tho to get your dad or a trained eye to watch the technique and quad, drop the gate for some reaction time excercises, time you.

Craig you got more than enough now get to work.....lol! I heard PC 5 is available for the DS call them.

[Mr. Big Time]

I agree tnt. It is all about reaction time. I am guessing that is how I get my holeshots, or my one or two quads away from holeshot (and I mean right with the guy who got it, not 2 quad lengths back). I am 215lbsof muscle and most guys on my line are between 170-200 lbs and most bikes on my line have some sort of motor mod, all I have is a motoworks pipe, hell I have a stock airfilter and I get damn close to the hole shot, if I dont get it. 2nd gear starts. Stock tires too.

[florentino]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
Sorry tnt but I have taken pro classes and they all tell me that the best way to get a whole shot is to get the front end up, you get mass traction that way. I wish I had a video from when I got the whole shot in Havasu, I holeshoted the line of 30 with a wheelie and it was a nice holeshot from what I was told, not one of them kind where I just barely got it. Newton can say what he wants but untill he races an atv, i'm not listening to that.
i agree with mr big time.. heres a pic last nite fair grounds race.. i got the holeshot on a bone stock bike just pink wire cut and my homemade pipe vs super mod quads ..

[TNT]

Don’t take what Mr BT said out of perspective. If you watch funny cars or mx pros they barely take their front end off the ground and they are producing a lot more torque…..Technically a lot going on here, the CG moving back produces more traction on the tires, and yes the more you weigh the greater the traction and the more difficult for you to controll the wheelie vs it controll you, but also your weight puts more load on the motor hence you produce less torque than a light racer. What you wanna do is BARELY wheelie your front tires off the start then set them down fast. It’s a very controlled balanced move between all these factors that removes front tire friction to get out of the gate, moves the cg back, reduces wind resistance, and maintains momentum. If you are wheeling more than the front tire being 1-2 inches off the ground you loss momentum and acceleration, Florintino is too high, when you can get the hole shot consistently in the pro-am class at the MX nationals then you are doing it right.

Some gates one can’t help having all four tires off the ground in that case you push your quad straight back to the ground asap.

Some may find that keeping the quad on the ground (no wheelie) is just as effective…..

Anyway that’s the way I figure it for what it’s worth. I'm not a racer so what do I know, my boy usually lets me know if my theories don't work or do:D

[Mr. Big Time]

I do agree with tnt, you dont want to whellie to high cause it can slow you down, and there is such thing as to much traction, and if you do whellie some, it not bad, it will probably help as long as you get it back down fast. I dont mean ride a whellie like your showing off for some girl, just enough to get out front.

Practice and find what works best for you!

[1Rockey1]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time


Practice and find what works best for you!

Great advice!

I do a lot of drag racing on my KTM and the holeshot is the most critical part of a good ET. If I were you I would find a dirt track that has a timing system and concentrate on nothing but the 60ft times. Try different things like tire pressure, position on the bike, rpm you launch at and find what works. This way you have a quantitve valuue to compare everything to and tell if your improvements actually mafe a positive change.

I can tell you what works for me but it would be useless to you because each bike and driver are different. If good holeshots were easy everyone would be dead even at launches. I will launch a hundred times before I feel comfortable. With that type of abuse, we just have to hope our bikes hold together.

[Mr. Big Time]

heres my havasu holeshot. I wish I had a shot from the line but this is all I got. This is actually the first holeshot I got on the can-am, but it wasnt the last.