New basketcase 400

[turbotexas]

Well I broke down and picked up this thing the other day and I have my work cut out for me! I have had a 400 before and liked the power as stock, so I might get this one back to stock by removing the header and pipe. I am 46 years old and don't need to go that fast! LOL I don't bounce like I used to! LOL So I took some pictures of the thing and hopefully someone can tell me what I have going on. It has some kind of aftermarket front end with 450r shocks that the previous owner said had works triple rate springs The rear has a 1" Plus swing arm with a stock 450r shock. The rear linkage looks odd, but I never paid much attention on the last quad...

[turbotexas]

pictures might help...
Why can I only attach one per post???

[turbotexas]

...

[turbotexas]

I guess this is one way to get my post count up??? LOL

[turbotexas]

Anyone regognise this yet???

[Snipe]

Looks like a stock linkage mounted on aftermarket swinger.

[turbotexas]

how about video??? how do I post that???

[Snipe]

And if its all tuned right I would just leave it all alone would cost more money to get it back to stock just cause it goes faster than stock dont mean ya have to lol.

[Snipe]

If your using the forums pic uploader it allows one per post. If you use photobucket or imageshack.us or something you can just copy the link and post as many pics as ya want. Use photobucket video tool or upload it to youtube or myspace video and then paste the link here.

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by Snipe
Looks like a stock linkage mounted on aftermarket swinger.

Will that work right? American Star racing is who made this I think... Should there be a fitting or matching linkage or will stock work???

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by Snipe
If your using the forums pic uploader it allows one per post. If you use photobucket or imageshack.us or something you can just copy the link and post as many pics as ya want. Use photobucket video tool or upload it to youtube or myspace video and then paste the link here.

I am uploading to youtube as we speak...
Thanks

[turbotexas]

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[hypersnyper6947]

I would try cleaning the carb first. Its easy free and a lot of the time it fixes things we thought were a problem.

[turbotexas]

That is on the agenda for today! It has a fuel line from the tank that is very thin walled and covered in a cheesy braided steel hose. I will replace that first with a thick fuel line I am thinking it is sucking fuel and collapsing the line...
Ever seen this before? It looks like an aftermarket extension to adjust fuel mixture but it free spins and is not working right... I want to remove but have not figured out how just yet??? It is the screw on the left of the two. I am guessing the screw on the right is to drain the bowl???
Thanks





Originally posted by hypersnyper6947
I would try cleaning the carb first. Its easy free and a lot of the time it fixes things we thought were a problem.

[omeeomy]

thats the idle screw to adjust your idle
that shouldnt affect how its collapesing the fuel line

[turbotexas]

Do you know how to remove it from the carb? It is not working... I drive an 18 wheeler and I left my Manual at home... So any help would be neat... I am used to dialing in 2 stroke carbs this one is a bit more complicated...




Originally posted by omeeomy
thats the idle screw to adjust your idle
that shouldnt affect how its collapesing the fuel line

[lilyamaharacer4]

Your linkage is on backwards

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by lilyamaharacer4
Your linkage is on backwards

San you show me some pics of how it should be? I had a feeling something wasn't right cause there was no travel when I lifted the rear end...

[killer400ex]

it is your main jet or the needle, just take the whole jet and main jet tube and blow it out, also clean out all ports and jets, you might have to do an acid soak to get it really clean, it could also be the float, if it wont open all the way it will use up the fuel and bog till it gets more

[lilyamaharacer4]

Just switch the two parts around. The part that has the holes in it should be in the back hole of the other linkage and be connected to the swinger. Then the shock will be mounted right infront of the part of the linkage with 2 holes in the back, and the front hole is where it mounts to the frame.

[turbotexas]

float level should be??? in mm



Originally posted by killer400ex
it is your main jet or the needle, just take the whole jet and main jet tube and blow it out, also clean out all ports and jets, you might have to do an acid soak to get it really clean, it could also be the float, if it wont open all the way it will use up the fuel and bog till it gets more

[exrider12]

Clean the carb and the air filter, put some fresh gas in and go from there.

[KevinAb]

Good to see another Ody guy in the house! Welcome. I remember you from the pilotodyssey.com site. Mines been sitting, needs a new piston. One day....

[rooster300ex]

Either the lil arm on top of the carb has come loose or your main jet is sittin in the bottom of the bowl

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by KevinAb
Good to see another Ody guy in the house! Welcome. I remember you from the pilotodyssey.com site. Mines been sitting, needs a new piston. One day....

hey whats up!!! Like I needed another project lol

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by rooster300ex
Either the lil arm on top of the carb has come loose or your main jet is sittin in the bottom of the bowl
I removed the main and it was cleaned
previous owner just paid a shop to re-jet for the aftermarket exhaust. then added the quite core and messed it up... I removed quite core until I get more jets at home,

[turbotexas]

What are you calling the little arm? the elbow that the throttle cable is routewd thru???



Originally posted by turbotexas
I removed the main and it was cleaned
previous owner just paid a shop to re-jet for the aftermarket exhaust. then added the quite core and messed it up... I removed quite core until I get more jets at home,

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by turbotexas
What are you calling the little arm? the elbow that the throttle cable is routewd thru???
He's talking about the arm that lifts the slide. It's under the cover plate on top of the carb.

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
He's talking about the arm that lifts the slide. It's under the cover plate on top of the carb.

I am that deep into the carb, but can't figure out how to get to the jet needle to adjust the clip? anyone???

[KevinAb]

Originally posted by turbotexas
hey whats up!!! Like I needed another project lol

The Ody is my project. I got the 400 cause I needed something I could ride and not have to worry about getting a tow back, lol. I love the Ody when it runs, it's a blast, but my 400ex starts everytime. :D

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by KevinAb
The Ody is my project. I got the 400 cause I needed something I could ride and not have to worry about getting a tow back, lol. I love the Ody when it runs, it's a blast, but my 400ex starts everytime. :D

Well mine starts ok idles ok but stumbles when I give it the gas??? I raised the clip one notch and no help, which would have made it leaner now that I think about it??? now I will drop it to richen it and see what happens...

http://www.maxmekker.com/atv/Manualer/Honda/Honda%20400ex.pdf

found this free manual too...

[turbotexas]

LOL I think I have bigger issue that might be causing this carb to act up???

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[Pipeless416]

is the smoke coming from the head gasket area or from where the header mounts up?

[turbotexas]

I think its coming from the corner where there is a chunk missing??? the guy fessed up and said he re-used a head gasket and put all that red **** in it??? to fill it up???

[Pipeless416]

i didn't see the black spot on the cooling fins at first.. definitely start by replacing the head gasket. its blown. mine sounded like a machine gun when it blew :p . while you're in there, check all your headstuds to make sure none of them are loose or stripped out.

[F-16Guy]

There's a 99% chance that if you have a blown head gasket, you'll need to put studs in it. You can try a new gasket if you want to, but I can almost guarantee that it'll blow too. Tear the top end apart, clean it up, have HD studs installed, hone it, put rings in it, and put it back together.

[turbotexas]

here is my parts list... besides the rings can you think of anything else???
Part Number Quantity Description List Price Your Price! Order
12391-KCY-671 GASKET, HEAD COVER $34.64 $26.1 <Remove From Cart>
94301-08140 PIN, DOWEL (8X14) $1.96 $1.68 <Remove From Cart>
12251-HN1-003 GASKET, CYL HD $20.64 $16.12 <Remove From Cart>
92900-08022-0B BOLT, STUD (8X22) $3.6 $3.08 <Remove From Cart>
94301-12200 PIN, DOWEL (12X20) $2.3 $1.96 <Remove From Cart>
14321-MN1-670 SPROCKET, CAM (38T) $28.91 $21.78 <Remove From Cart>
14401-KCY-671 CHAIN, CAM (112L) $103.47 $77.97 <Remove From Cart>
14511-KCY-670 TENSIONER, CAM CHAIN $67.8 $51.09 <Remove From Cart>
14515-KF0-000 COLLAR (6X9) $4.42 $3.45 <Remove From Cart>
12191-KCY-671 GASKET, CYLINDER $8.62 $6.73 <Remove From Cart>
90004-GHB-690 BOLT, FLANGE (6X32) $2.96 $2.31 <Remove From Cart>
90081-KCY-670 BOLT, STUD (10X60) $14.36 $11.22 <Remove From Cart>
90083-KG0-981 BOLT, STUD (10X92) $6.8 $5.31 <Remove From Cart>
90085-KG0-981 BOLT, STUD (10X73) $6.33 $4.94 <Remove From Cart>
91302-356-000 O-RING (88X2) $6.71 $5.24 <Remove From Cart>
94301-12200 PIN, DOWEL (12X20) $2.3 $1.96 <Remove From Cart>

[F-16Guy]

Well, here are some problems with your list:

Once one of the studs pull the threads out of the aluminum cylinder, you have to use oversized studs (see GTThunder.com) or heli-coil for the OEM studs. Most people opt for oversized studs because of how they're installed. The cylinder should be professionally drilled and tapped with a roll form tap for the new studs. The roll form tap compresses the metal in the holes to form threads versus cutting material away. That process makes the threads much stronger. The larger studs and stronger threads mean no more gasket problems.

Before you order a head gasket, shouldn't you tear it down and see what bore size it is? If it's anything over 87mm, you'll probably need a Cometic 89mm gasket set with an MLS head gasket. Wait to order the base gasket until you find out what head gasket you need. If you have to go with Cometic, the set will also include a base gasket, tensioner gasket, and valve adjustment plug o-rings.

Cam sprocket -- probably don't need it. It's up to you.

Cam Chain -- Use an early model (2002) CRF450R chain. It's much cheaper and has one extra plate per link which makes it much stronger than an ex chain.

Tensioner -- Your call. Mine is 10 years old and has seen 3 rebuilds and still works perfectly. I think most failures are caused by improper installation.

My advice would be to tear the plastic off and clean it up with a pressure washer so it's as clean as you can get it. Then, tear it down and see what you need before ordering anything. It will save you a lot of frustration, and you might run across some surprises.

[turbotexas]

I was going on what prev. owner told me on being stock... I guess I need to learn to be patient been trying 46 years ain't got it down yet

[F-16Guy]

It may very well be the stock bore, but I would still wait until you verify. Also, the fact that it obviously has head gasket problems makes me think that either way, I'd still do the studs. If it ends up needing a piston, I'd probably go to the next overbore depending on what it has in it now. If you want rock-solid reliability, just do the studs, 10:1 Wiseco piston, OEM or Cometic gaskets, and a Hotcams Stage 1 cam. You'll have a decent power gain over stock and be able to run pump fuel with no problems. I have an 11:1 setup with a stage 1 cam, and the power output is a lot like stock, but stronger everywhere. I've never had any issues with mine, and I would trust it to go anywhere.

[turbotexas]

OK Tell me what I have here??? I took thinks apart and most interesting thing was the piston size??? Stamped 8900??? (See Picture) I also found that previous dipspit has helicoiled two bolts into the jug? When I asked him about him using a torque wrench when he put it back together he said no, but there is plenty of gasket maker??? LOL People make me laugh... that red stuff wont make up for your laziness (clean the damn thing) or your lack of proper tools (torque it up!) It just made a mess and hopefully doen't plug up your oil passages thus starving/burning up your motor! I Found the two stock bolt heats were finger loose and I am hoping this is why I had lost the head gasket???

[turbotexas]

I am thinking of putting the hotcam into this top end? What do I do different??? Anyone tell me about this hotcam???

[turbotexas]

love the red... It is high temp gasket maker... I use it on my 2 stroke pipes to seal out the sand!

[turbotexas]

one more...
I personally don't like posting so many replies??? Just to show one picture... But I am new here so I won't complain! LOL

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by turbotexas
OK Tell me what I have here??? I took thinks apart and most interesting thing was the piston size??? Stamped 8900??? (See Picture)

11:1 89mm Wiseco ......... 440 piston.

I hate it when people smear RTV everywhere!

[turbotexas]

Oh Heck... That is a lot more motor than I wanted when I bought this thing... LOL I am too old to fall off something that fast...

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by turbotexas
Oh Heck... That is a lot more motor than I wanted when I bought this thing... LOL I am too old to fall off something that fast... It's up to you how far you push the throttle in.

You'll need an 89mm head gasket. The stocker will be too small. Also You're going to want to do something with the threads in the cylinder for the studs. Stay away from heli-coils but all you need to do is have a machine shop install oversized inserts and re-use the stock studs. Most likely they're pulling out of the aluminum and the crap install job the previous owner performed didn't help anything. It's not a big deal just has to be addressed properly.

As far as too much power goes you're still running the stock carb, I doubt it's ported and you can choose how aggressive of a cam you put in. This thing isn't exactly a monster yet.

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by TRXRacer1
It's up to you how far you push the throttle in.

You'll need an 89mm head gasket. The stocker will be too small. Also You're going to want to do something with the threads in the cylinder for the studs. Stay away from heli-coils but all you need to do is have a machine shop install oversized inserts and re-use the stock studs. Most likely they're pulling out of the aluminum and the crap install job the previous owner performed didn't help anything. It's not a big deal just has to be addressed properly.

As far as too much power goes you're still running the stock carb, I doubt it's ported and you can choose how aggressive of a cam you put in. This thing isn't exactly a monster yet.


Good on the Monster part! LOL
The cam that was in it, is pictured next to a hotcam Seen in previous post. There is some extra parts on it, is that the decompression stuff??? Reason I am asking is the head DIDN'T have the plunger and spring, So I am wondering if that is what made it run like crap???
What would I need to do to put the hotcam into this one???

[turbotexas]

more pics
What is all this on the end???

[turbotexas]

Thanks for the input!

[TRXRacer1]

To run the hotcam you just need to remove the plunger and spring. Already done so you're good to go. Just install it like you would the other one.

Yes on the decompression stuff on the stock cam. You don't have a decompress when you run an aftermarket cam.

[turbotexas]

I found the box that came with all the stuff this guy gave me, this is a stage one hotcam. The other two cams are with the de compessor stuff on them so I am assuming they are stock.
I can't find instructions though, and I thought I read somewhere that the hotcams has different valve clearances...
Any pictorials on her about setting valves???

[F-16Guy]

before you unbolt the cylinder from the case, see how far that piston sits in the hole at TDC. With the flat top Wisecos, you want to be between about 0.020" and zero deck height depending on what gasket you use. When you factor in the compressed thickness of the head gasket, you want to be at about 0.040" deck height. If you're having the studs fixed, figure out how much material needs to be removed to get 0.040" including gasket thickness and have them deck the cylinder. It will give you a nice, flat surface for your new gasket and will put you at the advertised compression ratio. It will also give you the correct squish band thickness and make your engine run cooler and more efficiently. It's already going to be apart, so it shouldn't cost much more to get it set up correctly.

[turbotexas]

Well I am already past that point... to an extent. I have a second jug that I am taking to have a piston sized to and the new studs put in. The one I have currently been working on just got a new gaset and is being put back together more than anything for practice. I will start it up later and see how it runs then take it back apart and put the new piston/jug on. I am still learning alot of this so practice makes perfect...



Originally posted by F-16Guy
before you unbolt the cylinder from the case, see how far that piston sits in the hole at TDC. With the flat top Wisecos, you want to be between about 0.020" and zero deck height depending on what gasket you use. When you factor in the compressed thickness of the head gasket, you want to be at about 0.040" deck height. If you're having the studs fixed, figure out how much material needs to be removed to get 0.040" including gasket thickness and have them deck the cylinder. It will give you a nice, flat surface for your new gasket and will put you at the advertised compression ratio. It will also give you the correct squish band thickness and make your engine run cooler and more efficiently. It's already going to be apart, so it shouldn't cost much more to get it set up correctly.

[riotact]

Here is a nice little write up on how to install the stage1 hot cam

http://www.lspsonline.com/howto/400ex%20hotcam/index.htm

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by riotact
Here is a nice little write up on how to install the stage1 hot cam

http://www.lspsonline.com/howto/400ex%20hotcam/index.htm


THANK YOU!!!

[turbotexas]

Well I got it running, with the help of the Local Honda dealer! the valves were reallly out of whack, Like there was a 1/4 inch of play LOL So know that I know what there supposed to be like I won't have such a hard time! I have to work on the jetting next. It backfires and spits out fire thru the exhaust. Don't need that in my dry pastures! It is revving high so I am assumeing like a 2 stroke it needs a bigger pilot jet??? I wil have to set the bowl first. These look different than what I am used to using...
I miss my 2 stroke LOL

[matt14c]

The bikefiring could be from the timing being off. Were you sure that you were at TDC when you installed the cam?

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by matt14c
The bikefiring could be from the timing being off. Were you sure that you were at TDC when you installed the cam?


98%...

[turbotexas]

Originally posted by matt14c
The bikefiring could be from the timing being off. Were you sure that you were at TDC when you installed the cam?

OK I did some digging, I have an exhaust leak at the header... black carbon build up and when I restabbed this I noticed there was now exhaust gasket... Would this be where my backfire/spitfire is coming from?
I also need a fix for the stock carb. The cable that goes from the left side to under the carb for idle adjustment is toast!!! Any easy replacement options!
I finally got to ride this a bit today and it is kinda fun... once I get used to the power I might keep it LOL It will be handy in the dunes to have it!

[turbotexas]

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here I go again... I was riding along after getting this thing to run great for a week or two and all the sudden she dies on me... I found the plug that came loose. I cleaned the airfilter/airbox and it must have jiggled loose... No Problem I thought... Till I plugged it back in and this thing ran like crap??? WHY???

[turbotexas]

This plug!!!

[turbotexas]

Another shot of the plug...

[turbotexas]

Never mind....

A true testiment to my blondeness, I forgot I had the choke on???