Tried giving the current administration the benefit of the doubt... [Archive]

8my_Cash

07-31-2009, 09:00 AM

Now the beer thing has people looking at it all wrong.

When Obama was talked to the police officer the police officer said, "Maybe one day I could have a beer at the white house with Mr. Gates"

Obama said i could arrange that for you. I interpereted(SP) as Obama showing that the presidency is not something that untouchable and that everyone is created equal and that issues in America if talked about can bring both sides of the equation closer.

Also i believe he used this completely blown out of proportion event to make notice of issues in the US. Cops that use their authority in unethical ways, that racism exists still, and that reverse racism is just as bad. Since gates pulled the race card out right away when the cop came to his house, which started this whole fiasco

I complete agree on the side of the officer in that he did nothing wrong and was doing his job, hell with the patriot act in place if you tell a cop to eff themselves they can arrest you for terroristic threats.

/rant:D

BUT on the $$ for clunkers program, i wish i had money for a new car 2010 stang is looking pretty mean :)

8my_Cash

07-31-2009, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
but now I have my doubts.

They are already suspending the cash for clunkers program because they can't administer it. If they can't handle something as small as maintaining control over 1 billion dollars then we might be in trouble.

sorry i had to add in :)

But i think its not that they can administer it, i think it more of , they didnt expect so many people to jump on the opportunity so fast. Also its like doing payroll for employees in 50 different states....no matter the amount of money...its hella hard

godzilla

07-31-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
Now the beer thing has people looking at it all wrong.

When Obama was talked to the police officer the police officer said, "Maybe one day I could have a beer at the white house with Mr. Gates"

Obama said i could arrange that for you. I interpereted(SP) as Obama showing that the presidency is not something that untouchable and that everyone is created equal and that issues in America if talked about can bring both sides of the equation closer.

Also i believe he used this completely blown out of proportion event to make notice of issues in the US. Cops that use their authority in unethical ways, that racism exists still, and that reverse racism is just as bad. Since gates pulled the race card out right away when the cop came to his house, which started this whole fiasco

I complete agree on the side of the officer in that he did nothing wrong and was doing his job, hell with the patriot act in place if you tell a cop to eff themselves they can arrest you for terroristic threats.

/rant:D

BUT on the $$ for clunkers program, i wish i had money for a new car 2010 stang is looking pretty mean :)

I truly try to stay out of political threads, because it always ends up being the same on here...but I have to congratulate you for being one of the first people on this site to offer an objective and seemingly educated opinion on a touchy subject.

You have my respect.

8my_Cash

07-31-2009, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by godzilla
I truly try to stay out of political threads, because it always ends up being the same on here...but I have to congratulate you for being one of the first people on this site to offer an objective and seemingly educated opinion on a touchy subject.

You have my respect.

thank you i appericiate it:cool: , i try to explain my views in an educated and valid format.....no sense in arguing if you sound like an idiot, hahaha :D

godzilla

07-31-2009, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
thank you i appericiate it:cool: , i try to explain my views in an educated and valid format.....no sense in arguing if you sound like an idiot, hahaha :D

The thing that concerns me the most is that most is many people here think that the new administration was going to turn a disasterous economy around with the snap of their fingers. I dont agree with absolutely everything that he has done, but we have to trust that things will improve...and they are.

The housing market is slowly starting to stabilise, consumer spending is slowly on the rise, and the most recent quarterly economic decline is the smallest since the second quarter of 2008, which is a sign that the recession is at or nearing an end.

The trillions of dollars in government programs that almost everyone here was screaming about 5 months ago to ease the credit market are working, which helps normal business cycle dynamics take over a to rebuild consumer spending.

Its a good sign folks...

quad2xtreme

07-31-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
sorry i had to add in :)

But i think its not that they can administer it, i think it more of , they didnt expect so many people to jump on the opportunity so fast. Also its like doing payroll for employees in 50 different states....no matter the amount of money...its hella hard

Don't take it from me that they can't administer it...listen to this guy (btw, they are in a hurried state to save it before this shopping weekend)...

House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio said lawmakers were working to bring the measure to the House floor today but it was unclear how many Republicans would support on the plan. "There are a lot of questions about how the administration administered this program. If they can't handle something as simple as this, how would we handle health care?" Boehner told The Associated Press.

The scary thing that I said 8 months ago is I've seen plenty of "idea" men in my career who couldn't execute. In the end, it is results and not effort that makes a difference. My biggest concern about not supporting McCain was that Obama wouldn't be able to pull anything off as planned. Knowing that you have a billion dollars for a program and administering it is pretty straight forward. They had to stop the program because they actually aren't sure if they exceeded the limit or not. They can't track how many have placed orders under the program. They also changed the mileage on many cars the day before the program went into effect...just a few days ago by the way and they are already shutting it down. If this happened in the corporate world, the manager would be looking for a new job.

How do you feel about them administering a new health care solution? It is at least 1,000 times more complex than handling the clunker program.

extremeblastr

07-31-2009, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by godzilla
The thing that concerns me the most is that most is many people here think that the new administration was going to turn a disasterous economy around with the snap of their fingers. I dont agree with absolutely everything that he has done, but we have to trust that things will improve...and they are.

The housing market is slowly starting to stabilise, consumer spending is slowly on the rise, and the most recent quarterly economic decline is the smallest since the second quarter of 2008, which is a sign that the recession is at or nearing an end.

The trillions of dollars in government programs that almost everyone here was screaming about 5 months ago to ease the credit market are working, which helps normal business cycle dynamics take over a to rebuild consumer spending.

Its a good sign folks...

now the housing market stablizing is a good sign but i'm not trusting the numbers on consumer spending just yet because i don't know about anyone else here but i spend far more in the summer time then i do in the winter (minus the month of december) and i think that is just a short term trend caused by the weather and the activities it makes people want to do.

also i did not expect them to turn it around instantly but i did expect a little smarter spending on their part. i would rather spend an extra year in a crappy economy with things slowly turning around then watch the national debt climb a couple trillion every month.

godzilla

07-31-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Knowing that you have a billion dollars for a program and administering it is pretty straight forward.

Administering a billion dollar program is straight forward? We can never understand the complexities of running such a huge budget program. Most people cant even manage their own checkbooks, never mind having to balance and rebuild an entire economic budget plan.

There will be uncertitude and critics for every single program, every single dollar spent , and every single decision he has made and is going to make, but although things are still not nearly close to where they were 3 years ago, the latest reports are that things are on the up and up.

godzilla

07-31-2009, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by extremeblastr

also i did not expect them to turn it around instantly but i did expect a little smarter spending on their part. i would rather spend an extra year in a crappy economy with things slowly turning around then watch the national debt climb a couple trillion every month.

But what you must understand is that the spending that has been done is what is responsible for the slow up rise in the economy. From a consumer point of view, I can certainly understand the frustration in watching banks benefit from huge bailouts, when they are partly responsible for this economic crisis in the first place, but it had to be done in order to re-establish credit.

Here is an example that many manufacturers in our own industry may be feeling:

Company X is having trouble surviving because of the economy...sales are dwindling because people are not spending. Company X figures that it needs to try and branch out to cater to a different demographic to attempt to stimulate sales, but in order to do this, they need money for R&D, but less revenue means less money for R&D and parts.

Their parts suppliers are all in the same boat and are asking for money up front for parts as they are also feeling the economic crunch...both in sales and from creditors. If creditors (banks) are no longer offering credit, then companies like company X cannot continue to grow and create sales that they desperately need for cash flow .

The only way for small companies to succeed is for banks to continue lending to start the economic engine again...as long as they are more responsible in how they do it.

President Obama has made it quite clear to the beneficiaries of the bailouts that their activities will be closely monitored...and the result of this is what you are seeing in the economy today...even though very small, there is still signs of some movement in the consummation of goods and services. It’s better to start small and rise consistently than to explode out of the gates.

8my_Cash

07-31-2009, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by godzilla
Administering a billion dollar program is straight forward? We can never understand the complexities of running such a huge budget program. Most people cant even manage their own checkbooks, never mind having to balance and rebuild an entire economic budget plan.

There will be uncertitude and critics for every single program, every single dollar spent , and every single decision he has made and is going to make, but although things are still not nearly close to where they were 3 years ago, the latest reports are that things are on the up and up.

agreed....1 billion dollars is alot of money but thats besides the point. The resources that are needed are not directly tied to the administration. The man power that is needed to execute the program is what is hurting the clunker program. 100 bucks that the government didnt allocate resources to handle the influx of rebate requests.....

In all honesty I high doubt anyone, especially since consumer confidence is down, expected to see a flood of people buying new cars. I mean if people werent spending a few hundred bucks here and there who thought that consumers were doing to spend thousands of dollars on a new car.

But the arguement of running out of money on the clunkers program is over, they just allocated more money to handle the influx of demand on this program....it just got passed today.

The arguement of saying if they cant handle this then they cant handle healthcare is completely political propaganda.

There would be committes and chairmen assigned to this specific task permenantly....just like any other Government agency (AMTRAK, CSPC, HHS which is related to health, DOD are just a few). There would be specific seats of office, goverment jobs, ect. related to the healthcare program.

It would be completely structured differently, handled differently, and furthermore implemented in a way to not create a cluster **** of man power and resource issues.

Any educated person, politician, news ancor, or executive knows this. They are just trying to find a failure in a completely different and large program to lower confidence within the people win their own battle on an issue.

godzilla

07-31-2009, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
agreed....1 billion dollars is alot of money but thats besides the point. The resources that are needed are not directly tied to the administration. The man power that is needed to execute the program is what is hurting the clunker program. 100 bucks that the government didnt allocate resources to handle the influx of rebate requests.....

In all honesty I high doubt anyone, especially since consumer confidence is down, expected to see a flood of people buying new cars. I mean if people werent spending a few hundred bucks here and there who thought that consumers were doing to spend thousands of dollars on a new car.

But the arguement of running out of money on the clunkers program is over, they just allocated more money to handle the influx of demand on this program....it just got passed today.

The arguement of saying if they cant handle this then they cant handle healthcare is completely political propaganda.

There would be committes and chairmen assigned to this specific task permenantly....just like any other Government agency (AMTRAK, CSPC, HHS which is related to health, DOD are just a few). There would be specific seats of office, goverment jobs, ect. related to the healthcare program.

It would be completely structured differently, handled differently, and furthermore implemented in a way to not create a cluster **** of man power and resource issues.

Any educated person, politician, news ancor, or executive knows this. They are just trying to find a failure in a completely different and large program to lower confidence within the people win their own battle on an issue.

exactly...not to mention that the person who was quoted in sayin this, House monitory leader John Boehner, also a Republican, and like that vast majority of republicans will be critical of anything the current administration does. It's all part of the game.

quad2xtreme

07-31-2009, 01:48 PM

Administering this program is fairly simple and don't let the dollar volume scare you. If it does, you would be really frightened to know how many multi-billion dollar contracts are out there being administered by companies for the government.

You have 1 billion in a bank. You have a set number of dealerships who qualify. Person comes in and fills out paperwork and has the car. Dealership gives the discount. Dealership presents appropriate paperwork. After verification, check gets cut. Problem is there is no system for tracking all of this. No database, no acctg system, no auditors. This falls under the responsibility of the government. I am not an Obama hater. I hoped for the best but I am not impressed that the administration knows how to run these big programs. Scary stuff. It shouldn't haven't taken a 1 day emergency effort to say we goofed so let's goof it up some more.

8my_Cash

07-31-2009, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Administering this program is fairly simple and don't let the dollar volume scare you. If it does, you would be really frightened to know how many multi-billion dollar contracts are out there being administered by companies for the government.

You have 1 billion in a bank. You have a set number of dealerships who qualify. Person comes in and fills out paperwork and has the car. Dealership gives the discount. Dealership presents appropriate paperwork. After verification, check gets cut. Problem is there is no system for tracking all of this. No database, no acctg system, no auditors. This falls under the responsibility of the government. I am not an Obama hater. I hoped for the best but I am not impressed that the administration knows how to run these big programs. Scary stuff. It shouldn't haven't taken a 1 day emergency effort to say we goofed so let's goof it up some more.

How do you know that there is no system, no auditors, ect.? How do you kno there is no tracking of money?

Thats almost impossible unless the government shows up to each individual dealship with cash. And saying its not hard, come on 1billion $1,000,000,000 dollars.

Also its not setup on a dealership basis. Its PER car basis. The biggest problem is not what you stated but the fact that the people recieving this rebate are getting the car before the rebate money is even giving to the dealership. The dealership has to wait for the money. So the dealership fronts the $4500 gives them the car and if the govt runs out of money they are out $4500. Thats the problem because the money is just FLYING out the window.

People arent willing to wait for the check that the govt gives them to buy the car, so the dealship fronts the money in hopes that the govt gives them the money quickly. The problem is that they cant track the pending transactions since the information of the clunker has to hit the govt after the car is sold. So there is no physical way to give the person the rebate at the time of purchase, which creates a lag on the system. This lag gives a false account balance on the $1billion since the rebate is being processed and isnt on ad hoc basis.

This is why its complicated

extremeblastr

07-31-2009, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
How do you know that there is no system, no auditors, ect.? How do you kno there is no tracking of money?

Thats almost impossible unless the government shows up to each individual dealship with cash. And saying its not hard, come on 1billion $1,000,000,000 dollars.

Also its not setup on a dealership basis. Its PER car basis. The biggest problem is not what you stated but the fact that the people recieving this rebate are getting the car before the rebate money is even giving to the dealership. The dealership has to wait for the money. So the dealership fronts the $4500 gives them the car and if the govt runs out of money they are out $4500. Thats the problem because the money is just FLYING out the window.

People arent willing to wait for the check that the govt gives them to buy the car, so the dealship fronts the money in hopes that the govt gives them the money quickly. The problem is that they cant track the pending transactions since the information of the clunker has to hit the govt after the car is sold. So there is no physical way to give the person the rebate at the time of purchase, which creates a lag on the system. This lag gives a false account balance on the $1billion since the rebate is being processed and isnt on ad hoc basis.

This is why its complicated

its actually lot simpler then you make it sound, there is more than enough technology to make this in an automated process or at worst a 1 or 2 day turn around. i'm willing to bet as said above that the government thought this was a great idea but didn't realize exactly how much effort and money it would require to put through.

and if your wondering how i could say its simple, create way for the approved dealers to submit the information electronically and issue each one a password to its own account to do so. problem pretty much solved, they just need to take the time to do it. its no different then how a debit card works just apply to this program:chinese:

godzilla

07-31-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by extremeblastr
its actually lot simpler then you make it sound, there is more than enough technology to make this in an automated process or at worst a 1 or 2 day turn around. i'm willing to bet as said above that the government thought this was a great idea but didn't realize exactly how much effort and money it would require to put through.

and if your wondering how i could say its simple, create way for the approved dealers to submit the information electronically and issue each one a password to its own account to do so. problem pretty much solved, they just need to take the time to do it. its no different then how a debit card works just apply to this program:chinese:

Call Timothy Geithner and propose your grand idea to him since you truly believe that it is so simple.

...and this is why I stay out of political debates... :rolleyes:

I'm outta here, have fun guys.

extremeblastr

07-31-2009, 02:32 PM

there is nothing stupid about that idea what so ever, if you think its so incredibly complicated explain why or don't aim negative comments at other people because that makes you the tool

edit: and there is nothing to be politically debated about how the program should operate just simple and somewhat logical ideas tossed back and forth until one sounds like it could work, the political part of it was getting it in place and deciding who was in charge which they obviously didn't do a very good job on although i can't really blame them. can't be that many choices to work with because nobody can trust a politician.

godzilla

07-31-2009, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by extremeblastr
there is nothing stupid about that idea what so ever, if you think its so incredibly complicated explain why or don't aim negative comments at other people because that makes you the tool

edit: and there is nothing to be politically debated about how the program should operate just simple and somewhat logical ideas tossed back and forth until one sounds like it could work, the political part of it was getting it in place and deciding who was in charge which they obviously didn't do a very good job on although i can't really blame them. can't be that many choices to work with because nobody can trust a politician.

where did you read that your idea was stupid? My point is that amongst all the people that are in place to implement these govt programs, I am sure they spent enough hours planning this thing out before putting it into action. It is not as cut and dry as you seem to think it is.

If you really think that your idea is gonna make a difference, call your local legislator or senator, or go top a town hall meeting and propose it. Get more involved.

extremeblastr

07-31-2009, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by godzilla
where did you read that your idea was stupid? My point is that amongst all the people that are in place to implement these govt programs, I am sure they spent enough hours planning this thing out before putting it into action. It is not as cut and dry as you seem to think it is.

If you really think that your idea is gonna make a difference, call your local legislator or senator, or go top a town hall meeting and propose it. Get more involved.

w/e not gonna go into it about the comments buttt as far as the cut and dry thing goes it really is that plain. no matter how many hours they spent planning it they still did it wrong and need to start over whether they like it or not. i would be glad to get involved in this but i'm currently spending all my time trying to get rid of the halfway/sober house they put in on my street which is full of young children and homeowners with very expensive toys who should not have to worry about those people being here and it is still being operated after 3 town meetings even though it is in clear violation of zoning laws anddddd the guy running it has multiple others like it which are also in violation and yet the town will not shut it down. i'm slowly but surely losing my faith in the governments ability to do anything but spend money and tell us to trust them because they seem to always protect the guy with the deep pockets even if hes obviously wrong.

/rant

quad2xtreme

07-31-2009, 05:14 PM

House approved more funding, Senate hasn't voted.

I read all about how it is being administered. They don't know if they are out of money or not (which makes it funny that they put up another 2 billion (enough to fund another 400,000 trade-ins). They allowed the dealerships to start offering this program before it was officially put into place. That was the first mistake. Dealers have submitted appropriate paperwork up to 3 times in cases and still not received the check.

If the rebate is say $5,000 per car...4,500 per car plus a $500 processing fee to run the program (very generous amount for processing the paperwork) that means Americans have bought 200,000 cars under this program. If the govt you trust so much funded a billion, did you trust they actually did the math to figure out how many cars that is and how the paperwork would be handled? How could they be overwhelmed?

It is on a per car basis but the purchased car must be through a dealership. Dealerships are authorized by GM, Chrysler, etc. It shouldn't be difficult to process the paperwork from a dealership and make the payments.

The government knows how to spend money but doesn't know much about how to track it and make sure it goes where it is supposed to go.

Are you saying nobody is to blame for screwing this up? Companies have been offering rebates for buying computers and the IRS has offered rebate checks to taxpayers, etc. I have to tell you that 200,000 transactions really isn't that much. You should see how many trades we handled at Legg Mason in a week.

This was poorly planned.