Can't believe what Obama is getting away with

[derekhonda]

I just cannot believe what is happening to our country right now, it's looking like the health care bill will pass. Don't get me wrong, health care for everyone seems like a good deal, but then you got to remember who is paying for it.

Most of us on here work hard. We went to college and got educated, we took a risk and started our own business, we spent countless years in an apprenticeship to learn a trade, we basically worked hard in life to get ahead. And now...the same bum that dropped out of highschool your sophomore year, never worked hard, has been in and out of work cause he gets lazy and doesn't go to work, gets fired, draws unemployment, then finds another job, then gets fired, he now will have the same health care you have, and guess what!? You get to pay for it too!

It's not even only about that. They are imposing regulations that any company above a payroll of $400,000 (which sounds like a lot, but basically any small business would meet that criteria) will now be forced to either offer healthcare, or else pay into a pot managed by the goverment so that the uninsured can have health care. Myself personally, I don't draw health insurance through the company, but I try to take good care of my body, I don't smoke, and my health insurance is 90 dollars a month and I cover it myself. Guess I ought to be glad, now I won't have to spend that 90 each month....but for some reason, I feel like they are gonna get it from me and probably more.

[hondariderdylan]

the country is in a mess at the moment

obama is a possible reason, but im not going to jump on the obama-F'ed-us-up bandwagon
i hate politics anyway:p

[derekhonda]

Well and I agree, it's not all him, but this is something he has been trying to push through and has been trying to rally the democrats. The trouble is whenever you get one side that controls all three parts of the government (congress, senate, president) the checks and balances system just doesn't work.

Read this is you get a minute:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

And I'll just go ahead an highlight the part that pisses me off.


Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., who presided over the health committee vote, said it was more important to get a good bill than to get GOP votes.

"There is a value in achieving bipartisanship but I will not sacrifice a good bill for that. That's not the goal here," Dodd said, noting that Democrats plus two independents add up to 60 seats in the 100-member Senate — the number needed to advance legislation.


So basically, he thinks the bill is fantastic, while there is zero support from the repubs.



& http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul


Obama has proposed increasing taxes on well-off people to help underwrite the cost. He said in one interview that "I think the best way to fund it is for people like myself who have been very lucky to pay a little bit more."


Share the wealth, yo.

[derekhonda]

I guess what upsets me, is that no one is questioning him. This is legislation that will change our health care system forever!

The only comparison I can think of is when bush implemented the patriot act, and whether you think it was good, bad, or are indifferent, it really didn't effect you unless you were doing something bad. Do you remember how much **** the media was giving bush, taking away our personal freedoms and all that jazz? Where is the talk on this? This is going to drastically effect two things, your pockets, and your ability to have good health care. The rich people in Canada now come to the USA to get good healthcare, because even though their healthcare is free, it isn't the best, and there is usually a long waiting list.

Picture this also, you have wanted to be a doctor ever since you were little. You are in your last year of medical school getting ready to graduate at the top of your class because you worked harder and studied more than anyone else at your school. Now, while you thought your opportunities were going to be endless, you find out that your pay will be capped to other doctors at your level, because the government now controls you and your patients. Quite the american dream, right.

[C41Xracer]

in my opinion its only gonna get worse

[Tommy Warren]

We have universal healthcare up here in The Can. its pretty decent as long as you break your arm at 2 or 3 in the morning. If you do it through the day your screwed. because now you have the wait for all the hypocondriacs that have a lump on their leg or a headache. long waits in the ER are always garunteed.

[F-16Guy]

Thankfully, nothing is "forever". Everything that is being done can be undone eventually if the will of the people exists.

I'm totally against the way he's going about health care reform. He needs to attack the reasons that people can't afford health insurance so that it can be more affordable, not mandate that every low-life in the country get health insurance at the expense of responsible taxpayers. Everyone in the U.S. is already required to be given life saving and stabilizing care, and that's all that should be mandated by the gov't. Everything above and beyond should be left to the market.

To make insurance premiums attainable for the average worker, a few things need to happen:
There needs to be a system for eliminating frivolous lawsuits before they take up resources in court, and there needs to be a cap on punitive damages to take away the incentive for greedy lawyers to push bogus suits. real, provable damages and expenses should always be awarded, but the arbitrary millions in punitive damages awarded to plaintiffs can be career-ending events for doctors and other medical professionals. My wife works for a medical malpractice lawfirm that predominately defends doctors, and some of the cases aren't as cut-and-dry as people would like to think; a questionable judgement against a doctor can be devistating. Because of these judgements and the increasing malpractice insurance premiums, it's getting to the point that it's not profitable to be a doctor in the US.

The federal or state gov'ts should establish an auditing body to perform random reviews and spot checks to evaluate the validity of medical charges by hospitals. In my experience, there are many, many overcharges and misbillings by hospitals. If/when those expenses are paid by insurance companies, the extra cost ultimately gets passed on to the insured. Getting an unbiased 3rd party to examine charges might help cut some of the fat.

Clean up the billing for services, stop the "lottery mentality" of lawsuits, and give incentives to workplaces that offer health care or subsidize costs for their employees, and the system will work like it should. Making top-notch health care a "universal right" will end up giving everyone sub-par care.

[derekhonda]

Very well said.

[8my_Cash]

I am actually for the idea of universal healthcare.....where i live you have a long wait no matter what time of day and sometimes its hit or miss on the quality of procedure. I believe that universal healthcare would not affect the ability of America to provide great healthcare. Just because its free it does not mean the care provided is going to be a**.

I think idea is being approached incorrectly though....because medical costs are astronomical.

I agree that the reform should be hospital side and not uninsured side, and that we need to revamp everything from the overall costs of operating a hospital, the salaries of medical personel, to the laws surrounding malpractice and the fees associated with malpractice insurance....you are right its like a damn lottery.


Its insane that a person can sign the waiver form that waves your right to sue if something goes wrong but it cannot be held in a court of law.



I just hope that this does not turn into the poor quality that some of the VA hospitals provide....

[honda350r]

I pay 650.00 a month for health insurance and the deductable is 2500.00 . It is a total sham ! I hate heath care and it is hard to afford, I don't smoke, drink and I am not overweight, no one is in my family of 4..

[honda350r]

Do you guys know how much health care we could of bought instead of buying bombs to drop in other countries ?

[ProspectorJim]

"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...."- Thomas Jefferson

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by honda350r
Do you guys know how much health care we could of bought instead of buying bombs to drop in other countries ? we spend about 4.7% of GDP on DOD and spend 15% on health care going to about 20% with Obama. With Obama care we should get all the illegals out of the ER's

[Quad18star]

Never had a problem with Healthcare up here in Canada. Part of my taxes goes to pay it ... so when I need to see a doctor I walk into the ER or clinic and see one and not have to worry if I'll have to re-mortgage my house. The way I see it , you shouldn't be penalized because you got injured or are sick .. it's beyond your control.

People are afraid of change until it happens , then they see the benefits of it.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Never had a problem with Healthcare up here in Canada. Part of my taxes goes to pay it ... so when I need to see a doctor I walk into the ER or clinic and see one and not have to worry if I'll have to re-mortgage my house. The way I see it , you shouldn't be penalized because you got injured or are sick .. it's beyond your control.

People are afraid of change until it happens , then they see the benefits of it.

I just like extreme examples.

Johnny knoxville. If he has insurance at all, I can imagine he and his crews rates are through the roof, because they make so many trips to the er for various reasons that are part of his "job discription"

There was just a story on the news a month or so back about people that always think they are dying, one person had 53 ambulance rides in one years span (yes, about once per week) and never was diagnosed with any actual medical problem.

Some things are within your control.




I believe that universal healthcare would not affect the ability of America to provide great healthcare. Just because its free it does not mean the care provided is going to be a**.

A lot of the top doctors in canada left canada, and I did see a number at one point in time but however they determine the total health care system (something like time in waiting, total time spent with doctor, amount of recovery time) went down like 13%

[k4f5x0r]

screw universal health care. my mom grew up in germany which has that system and its possibly the most corrupt and ****tiest healthcare ever.

She explained everything about it to me and now i really dont feel going into too much detal, you guys can check out google or wikipedia.

But the healthcare system LITTERALLY crashed. it completely ran out of funding and now guess what? the public is paying ridiculous prices just to keep it running, or they must find their own healthcare from a private company.


IMO this is one thing obama will completely **** up. but oh well, he'll figure that out eventually.

I don't want universal health care... If it happens there will be no more motivation for people to become doctors because they won't be making top dollar like they do now. We'll have the guys that barely made it through med. school telling us what could POSSIBLY be wrong. :ermm:

[powermadd400ex]

i just dont understand why responsible americans(taxpayers) should be obligated to pay for anyone elses house, car, or healthcare. it just doesnt make sense. is lazy scum better than the responsible american? even more so when those responsible americans are scraping for every spare dollar they can get to pay their own bills, little lone somebody elses.
that just doesnt make any possible sense to me.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by powermadd400ex
i just dont understand why responsible americans(taxpayers) should be obligated to pay for anyone elses house, car, or healthcare. it just doesnt make sense. is lazy scum better than the responsible american? even more so when those responsible americans are scraping for every spare dollar they can get to pay their own bills, little lone somebody elses.
that just doesnt make any possible sense to me.

SHARE THE WEALTH ! :D

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by derekhonda


There was just a story on the news a month or so back about people that always think they are dying, one person had 53 ambulance rides in one years span (yes, about once per week) and never was diagnosed with any actual medical problem.

A lot of the top doctors in canada left canada,

We pay for our ambulance rides , atleast here in Ontario .... it's either $45 or $50 everytime you have to take a ride .

Also I've never had any problems finding great quality doctors ... in fact some of the doctors that I have seen have trained with some of the best in the world and even provided training to top doctors across the globe.

As for the one guy from Ontario that said you'd wait with a broken arm behind someone with a bump , that is either a false statement or very piss poor management at the hospital you've attended. Every hospital I have been to , you are first assessed on how critical your case is. Pregnant women and heart attacks comes first and it trickles down from there . A broken arm outweighs the guy waiting for 3 stiches , even if you just arrived and he's been waiting for 3 hours.

[400exrider69]

soon as i get 18 i'm moving to Australia it's not nearly as screwed up as America plus half the world don't wanna kill Australia

[Scro]

Originally posted by 400exrider69
soon as i get 18 i'm moving to Australia it's not nearly as screwed up as America plus half the world don't wanna kill Australia

Go ahead, with an attitude like that we don't need you here anyway.:mad:

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by 400exrider69
soon as i get 18 i'm moving to Australia it's not nearly as screwed up as America plus half the world don't wanna kill Australia just the other half wants to kill Australia. :blah:

[Guy400]

It's nucking futs to believe that universal healthcare is a fair and honest system in this country. Straight from the Declaration of Indepence We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, It states that this is a country founded on the belief that you have the freedom to pursue Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. It doesn't promise every shlub free healthcare on the backs of the citizenry. Look at the Bill of Rights, 10 rights that every American citizen has. Nowhere does it promise healthcare. All it promises you is the freedom to succeed.

Are there good doctors in Canada, Britain, Germany, etc.? Sure. But the absolute best doctors, specialists and clinics in the world are in America because the doctors are not bound by restricted pay. Ever hear of the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Duke Medical Center and the list goes on. These are world leaders in their respective fields.

And don't get me started on the stimulus package and proposed 2nd round of it. Don't get me wrong, I hate to see any business go under but if you've been mismanaged for 30+ years you get what you deserve. If I take my paycheck and blow it all on video games, pizza and beer and fail to make my mortgage and utility payments is it my governments responsibility to make the payments for me?

I've got pretty decent health insurance but still have co-pays and premiums. When my kids get sick and go to the hospital should I knock on my neighbor's door and ask for a check to cover the bill because that's essentially what we're doing here.

Whoever posted the quote by Thomas Jefferson is absolutely right. Besides philosophical disagreements with Obama my biggest beef is his contention that the government can solve all our problems and there's apparently no bottom to the well. He's slowly attempting to make the populace completely dependent on the federal government for everything.

[TAZ450r]

whats happening is that america is turning into sweden

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-21-2009/the-stockholm-syndrome-pt--1

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-22-2009/the-stockholm-syndrome-pt--2
;)

[OutlawBill]

catch 22 of Obama care 1. if you due not have health insurance you must get it. 2. Once Obama care become law health insurance company are not allowed to write new pollicis. (found on approximately page 16 of 1000) :confused: :huh

[jcs003]

FEED THE PEOPLE FIRST...reform healthcare later.

[eastcoastpro20]

OBAMA IS A DAMN IDIOT, and anyone who voted for him is an idiot

[ben300]

Originally posted by Quad18star
We pay for our ambulance rides , atleast here in Ontario .... it's either $45 or $50 everytime you have to take a ride .

Also I've never had any problems finding great quality doctors ... in fact some of the doctors that I have seen have trained with some of the best in the world and even provided training to top doctors across the globe.

As for the one guy from Ontario that said you'd wait with a broken arm behind someone with a bump , that is either a false statement or very piss poor management at the hospital you've attended. Every hospital I have been to , you are first assessed on how critical your case is. Pregnant women and heart attacks comes first and it trickles down from there . A broken arm outweighs the guy waiting for 3 stiches , even if you just arrived and he's been waiting for 3 hours.

thats all fine and dandy for you guys up north, but you guys have 30+ million citizens vs our 300+ million citizens, wich is roughly ten times as many peopel as what you have up there...that does roughly equate out to 10 times as many ppl.....not to mention tht its on average that 45% of american citizens do not pay taxes, and that number is increasing do to lost jobs and unemployment adn what not...

now that brings us to, where do or who foots this bill? the tax payers do..the proposed health care is somehting like 1 trillion dollars,...so i have seen bipartisan statistics showing that the remaining 55% of americans who pay taxes would rouhgly have to $33k in taxes a year for i believe a year or two to pay that billl off....which in itself is insane, becasse a large portion of american tax payers do not make more than $50k a year, which is the average american salary......

so i other tersm....PRESBO promised that he would not raise taxes to any american "house hold" that makes less than $200k a year, key worlds house hold....so that means, who does he think is going to pay this then, the <15% of american house holds that make over $200k?...i dont think so...in order for this to work as he, and hes so called political genious, which by happen to be made up of a bunch of trust fund yuppies that seem to have a hard time paying their own taxes....example timothy gietner(spl?)..for this to work, everyone is going to have to ay more in taxes...on top of al of the toher federal, state adn local taxes that we already pay...


now comes to the booter to companies that already provide health care benefits to their employees,...and this has been widely talked about if you follow any politics....that these companies have to provide an overal health to their employees that equals no less, NO LESS, than 8% of their total gross yearly income.....in other words...this is gonna raise the overal cost of company supplied health care...now this is not a big deal to some huge mega *** corporations, kinda liek the ones that have already been bailed out...but to the hundreds of thousands over other small companie and businesses, this is a huge deal because they are gonna have to lay off or cut workers and spending all together to cover these costs.....

which leads to the domino affect of drastically increased unmployment, ppl not spending money on consumer goods( which they need to do to boost the economy)....thus making an already bad recession.....EVEN WORSE

and dont get me started on cap and trade...i work for a power company, and a from and employee and a customer of this company's standpoint....ITS BULL****

[ben300]

Originally posted by eastcoastpro20
OBAMA IS A DAMN IDIOT, and anyone who voted for him is an idiot


I voted for the other guy.....i dont think the toher ticket was the cure all solution, but at least they would not have gone one a crazy spending spree like a baligerant drunk who just stole two millionaires credit cards...



so dont blame me...

1.20.2013
True change we can believe in

[OutlawBill]

18 weeks form seeing doctor to surgery in Canada. IF we get Obama care where will the Canadians go that need surgery now to save there lives?

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html

[honda350r]

Originally posted by ben300


1.20.2013
True change we can believe in

Dream on dude !

[ben300]

Originally posted by honda350r
Dream on dude !


i'll dream all i want....at least that ainted taxed yet

[ben300]

liberals.......:cuss:

[BuB400]

I'd like to know where your buying health ins. for $90 a month.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by OutlawBill
18 weeks form seeing doctor to surgery in Canada. IF we get Obama care where will the Canadians go that need surgery now to save there lives?

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html

I have never waited more than 2 weeks to have surgery ..... and have had urgent life saving surgery on the same day on 3 seperate occasions.

[ALAMX37]

Believe whatever you want, this is only the first step towards a socialized country. I dare say that this great nation has seen its finest days. Until we can achieve a republican congress and house things will only get worse. At least the rich greedy politicians dont bend me over like this.

[reptikes]

This is a good thing. Quit your crying and grow up. GO OBAMA!

[honda350r]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Believe whatever you want, this is only the first step towards a socialized country. I dare say that this great nation has seen its finest days. Until we can achieve a republican congress and house things will only get worse. At least the rich greedy politicians dont bend me over like this.

:rolleyes:

[powermadd400ex]

Originally posted by derekhonda
SHARE THE WEALTH ! :D

Proverbs 10:4
"Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth."

thats all i got to say.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by BuB400
I'd like to know where your buying health ins. for $90 a month.

2500 deductible 80/20 no drug card.

Basically just saves me on broken bones and major surgery, otherwise I also pay into an HSA for any minor things.

Reptikes, explain to me why exactly this is a good thing.

The only thing I can think of, is peoples life expectancy will go down...thus saving social security for another couple of decades.

Oh and by the way, that would be a baaaad thing.

[ben300]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Reptikes, explain to me why exactly this is a good thing


he cant explain. liberals back there decisions with hopes and dreams of puppys and lolli pops for everyone.

the thought of government bending over back wards and paying for the mortages and filling up their gas tanks makes them estatic

they baught into the audacity of hope...what they really got was the audacity of hype

[F-16Guy]

I voted for Ron Paul. I'm tired of the "big two" scam. All of the sheeple say he's a nut, but he derives his policies from the Constitution of the United States, and that means a lot to me. Limited government, more states' rights, lower taxes, personal accountability. You don't have to be a liberal whack job or a right wing religious nut to appreciate that.

[Guy400]

By having the government doing everything for us it turns the people into crack-addicted lab rats. Take the crack away and we'll do whatever we have to in order to get our fix back.

[400exrider69]

i spent 3 months in Australia and it's far better than what most people expect it's cleaner safer and property and what not is a whole lot cheaper. I could buy a farm in Australia for next to nothing and not have half the problems to deal with that America faces right now

America for the past 10 years seems to just bend over again and again for bad decisions and everybody knocks out the good guy and takes the a*sh`le that screws it up a little more

[Guy400]

Originally posted by 400exrider69
i spent 3 months in Australia and it's far better than what most people expect it's cleaner safer and property and what not is a whole lot cheaper. I could buy a farm in Australia for next to nothing and not have half the problems to deal with that America faces right now

America for the past 10 years seems to just bend over again and again for bad decisions and everybody knocks out the good guy and takes the a*sh`le that screws it up a little more I may not agree with everything that's going on here but it's still the best country on Earth and I don't advocate running from the problem. Nobody's nailed your foot down, move if you want.

[Wheelie]

Obama is a Socialist, this country is headed towards Socialism. Anyone who thinks or believes otherwise needs to open their eyes.


The government is out of control, everything they take over becomes a massive expense to the taxpayers and a blundering failure. Look at the Post Office.

Government spending is out of control, the coming tax increases and new regulations are insane, and Obama's push to pass everything quickly is a big mistake. Our government needs to DOWNSIZE, not get bigger.

We need welfare reform, we need less spending, we need our right to bear arms to not be infringed upon any further, we need a government that listens to the people and not their pocket or their friends pocket, we need the people of this country to take the power back into the hands of honest people whose intentions are for the good of this country and who care about the hard working citizens that live within it.

America is going to fail if we continue down this road, and it will fail sooner than later.

The people that run this country need to read the Constitution and our Bill of Rights AND ABIDE BY THEM!

I'll step off my soapbox now. What's currently happening is this country scares me. People need to wake up, open their eyes and open their minds and look around and stand up for what's right.

[Wheelie]

One more note, this country is not supposed to be a Democracy, we were founded as a Republic.

[KevinAb]

Why is it the government's responsibilty to provide health insurance for all citizens?

[Wheelie]

Originally posted by KevinAb
Why is it the government's responsibilty to provide health insurance for all citizens?

It shouldn't be, it's a way to achieve more control over the people.

A quote I like:

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free"

[SRH]

wouldnt these people more or less end up going welfare at some point or medacaid anyway? now the govt is more or less making business owners share that burden by making them provide healthcare? i mean if hospitals are doing stuff for people and there not paying and they got no insurance someone is eating that....i like the idea of everyone having insurance but it may hurt some business's but you must adapt i guess

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by SRH
wouldnt these people more or less end up going welfare at some point or medacaid anyway? now the govt is more or less making business owners share that burden by making them provide healthcare? i mean if hospitals are doing stuff for people and there not paying and they got no insurance someone is eating that....i like the idea of everyone having insurance but it may hurt some business's but you must adapt i guess

Yeah, well we are in trucking. For just about everyone not in the industry, two things are happening. freight rates are going down, and fuel prices and other expenses are going up. It just doesn't add up and we are already burning through money and have been for about 6 months. Weve already cut the 401 K match out company wide and took a 20% pay cut in the office, not sure how much more we can cut things in order to pay all these wonderful new expenses.

[flammable]

wtf is wrong with this country if everyones getting healthcare we might as well only spend 10k on our military a year( if were trying to be like canada). i mean all this s>it is soooo un american our for fathers r rolling in there graves right now,



i have to pay 15 cents extra for a packet of ranch dressing at mcdonalds wtf:( :ermm: :mad: :grr: :eek2: :rolleyes: :huh :scary: :ermm: :mad: :grr: :( :rolleyes: :eek2: :huh :scary: :ermm: :grr: :mad:

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by flammable
wtf is wrong with this country if everyones getting healthcare we might as well only spend 10k on our military a year( if were trying to be like canada). i mean all this s>it is soooo un american our for fathers r rolling in there graves right now,



i have to pay 15 cents extra for a packet of ranch dressing at mcdonalds wtf:( :ermm: :mad: :grr: :eek2: :rolleyes: :huh :scary: :ermm: :mad: :grr: :( :rolleyes: :eek2: :huh :scary: :ermm: :grr: :mad:

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing you're being sarcastic.

Here's the thing that really bothers me about this. Where is this trillion dollars going to magically appear from? We're already trillions in debt. TRILLIONS. They've already spent all of my tax dollars a long time ago, and I'm not even old enough to pay taxes yet. Right now they're spending my future children's and grandchildren's money. This country is going to be paying for the Obama administration for generations.

[flammable]

sarcastic about we should only spend 10k on military yes,

paying 15 cents extra for 1 friggen packet of ranch no

[<DRS>GPF]

ive been holding out on posting..

but i thought id just drop this in..

follow the money..
wanna know why theres possibly enough support?
wanna know why they wont address the reasons people cant afford to just "pay as they go"?

follow the money..
many of you are thinking this is a "liberal thing".. its not..

seatbelt laws were supposed to help lower the cost of insurance, but instead the cost went up as usual(at times even at a higher rate!!)

who stands to make bank if something goes though? the insurance scam/industry, thats who..
id go as far to say that any congressman that "ok's" it is getting funding from the insurance industry in some form or another, or has been "bought off" by some hidden funding in the bill for their district.

this is one i honestly dont like, simply because it makes a mandate upon all..
a person should choose whether they want insurance or not, knowing full well there can be dire consequences.

i think helmets are the safe thing, but i dont want a law telling me i must wear one.

end the end, i hope it scares the healthcare industry in a way that lowers cost, but im not seeing it.(unless your including the pharmesuedical industry.)

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by Wheelie

America is going to fail if we continue down this road, and it will fail sooner than later.

The people that run this country need to read the Constitution and our Bill of Rights AND ABIDE BY THEM!



Every great dynasty in history has fallen. Our political leadership doesn't study history so they will repeat past mistakes. If there were a large piece of land starting over with the original principles of the US, I am pretty sure there wouldn't be enough ships to get the people there.

[quad2xtreme]

link to article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090717/pl_politico/25072)

this is why you live in the United States of Corporate America. Our political system is run by companies and lobbyists. Organizations are created to lobby and then force companies to pay into them...almost for protection. Sounds like a more organized mob doesn't it?

[usp4u]

Originally posted by 400exrider69
soon as i get 18 i'm moving to Australia it's not nearly as screwed up as America plus half the world don't wanna kill Australia
:huh I think you may want to research that a little first. You will find that you WILL NOT receive many of the civil liberties you enjoy here.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by usp4u
:huh I think you may want to research that a little first. You will find that you WILL NOT receive many of the civil liberties you enjoy here.

Explain !!!

Other than the right to carry a firearm ... explain .

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by flammable
wtf is wrong with this country if everyones getting healthcare we might as well only spend 10k on our military a year( if were trying to be like canada).

Are you trying to make yourself look like an idiot , or is it genetic?

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Are you trying to make yourself look like an idiot , or is it genetic?

Well if it is genetic atleast he will be able to receive free treatment to try and cure it. :D

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Well if it is genetic atleast he will be able to receive free treatment to try and cure it. :D

As they say ... you can't fix stupid. ;)

[flammable]

at least ProspectorJim was smart enough to realize the sarcasm,

you not so much:ermm:

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by flammable
at least ProspectorJim was smart enough to realize the sarcasm,

you not so much:ermm:

Nope , but I sure was able to pick out the dumbass out of the bunch. :)

[flammable]

well if u cant pick up on the blaitent sarcasm,

i think i know who is the dumbass of the bunch, esp if your going to start an argument over it:ermm:

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by flammable
well if u cant pick up on the blaitent sarcasm,

i think i know who is the dumbass of the bunch, esp if your going to start an argument over it:ermm:

Sarcasm doesn't transfer into text well.you either end up seeming like an ******* or an idiot.

[flammable]

true. i thought it was obvious sarcasm, but then again on a screen its hard to tell... sorry everyone

[usp4u]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Explain !!!

Other than the right to carry a firearm ... explain .

Right to carry?!?!?! Ha! The Liberal dip-sihts down there have all but done away with firearms OWNERSHIP let alone concealed carry. Yeah, you can still own a firearm, but we dont want you to have semi-autos, or "military/police calibers", handguns with >5 inch barrels.
Signifies the beginning of the end for a free society. Rolling over and allowing legislation such as that pass through and just accepting Draconian firearms laws is the death kneel for public. It's saying, "You know sir, you are right I cant be trusted with all this freedom, I need you to throttle me back once in a while." The Aussies showed themselves as a whole to be liberal punks(I'm sure there are alotta "good" ones, just not enough to over-run the "bad" ones) who are on the "let government run your lives for you!" bandwagon. There has been a terrible precident set that will result in the future trampling of other civil liberties.

Sadly, my beloved counrty isn't far behind.