e85 Fuel?

[IcutMetl]

I've been hearing a little bit about the high octane rating of e85 lately, especially in atv's. Go over to the 400ex forum, and there's a 6 page thread and a big group of guys that have been running it for quite some time with great results. General consensus is; fatter jetting (higher consumption rate with e85/ethanol fuel), cooler running (some have increased compression), sharper throttle response & power increase, may discolor plastic if not wiped off after spill, doesn't deteriorate rubber seals as much as people think or like with methanol, smells really different, MUCH less cost than race gas and seems to rate out at about 105 octane. There was a handful of guys that have since switched their 50/50 race fuel/premium pump mixes. Didn't read one post where a guy had a e85 related engine failure. E85 stations seem to be about as scarce as race fuel pumps in most areas; however.

Has anybody ran it in a 2stroke? Not planning on switching, but it'd sure be nice paying under $3 per gallon than $6.00 for 110 octane.

I just found it pretty interesting.

[Honda 250r 001]

who wants to be the test dummy? lol

[1promodfan]

I can tell you this, I don't plan on running anything with ethanol in my bike!! I talked to a guy that works for the fuel company and he said it was junk. If I pull to a gas station that has it on the pump, I go somewhere else to get gas for my car........so I know I ain't putting it in my quad.

[derby]

E85 has an octane rating of just over 100. I am not sure what the deal is with 1promod, but it is a good fuel. Make sure you do not mix synthetic oil with it.

[Buttermilk]

A friend of mine dyno'd his Banshee 421 Cheetah Cub on E85 and made 102 HP.

I've ran in my Banshee, briefly, while on a trip to the sand dunes. I forgot my jets so I couldn't get it leaned out enough (was running my methanol carbs....) to get it properly jetted.

My "seat-o-the-pants" dyno indicated that it made more power than TT111 race gas did.

I have plans to run it in my 250R full time very soon.

[zedicus00]

oh lord not the ethanol debate.

ethanol is good fuel but it has less BTU energy at any 'octane' then gasoline. the good news is you can stuff more of it into the cylinder, AND you can compress it harder before it goes unstable. so, an engine TUNED for ethanol will make good power but dont expect free performance from it.

BTW the reason you got more power going to ethanol from you race gas is because your race gas was to high of an octane rating for your engine. essentially the ethanol was lower octane giving you more power.

your engine has peak power at the LOWEST octane it can run on WITH OUT preigntion or detonation.

[zedicus00]

i just have to add this.

if you 'talk to a guy who work.... who knows.... who has built....' etc, and instantly you believe everything that flows out his mouth. then i have a cherry 1980 ford pinto i would like to sell you for 5000$. garunteed to double you investment money in 6 months. i will even cover all shipping costs provided you reimburse me before you take delivery of any items.

[trx310R#24]

id run it what could go wrong.

[Buttermilk]

Wow! Seems like someone got kinda stirred up over E85!

It's true that gasoline has more BTU's than E85. It's also true that gasoline has more BTU's than methanol. It's also true that methanol will make more power than gasoline. It's also true that E85 will make more power than gasoline. Just not as much more as methanol.

No one here is talking about "free" performance. After all, even methanol comes out about the same as gasoline as far as cost goes, since the AFR stoich is 6.4:1 compared to gasolines 14.7:1.

As far as octane rating goes, the octane rating of a fuel is only that fuels anti-knock index rating of the fuels ability to withstand compression and not detonate.

There are reasons, other than octane, why methanol and ethanol make more power than gasoline. You can find all kinds of material related to that subject published online and at your local libraries.

Methanol, as well as ethanol, have lower octane ratings than typical race gasolines. But they can still produce more power than gasoline.

Mathmatical calculations indicate that E85 will make about 4% more power than typical 110 race gas, with methanal making at least 6% more power and sometimes more, depending on the engines state of tune.

And that's all I got to say 'bout that.

Regards,,

Rog

[zedicus00]

Originally posted by Buttermilk
Wow! Seems like someone got kinda stirred up over E85!

.... It's also true that methanol will make more power than gasoline. It's also true that E85 will make more power than gasoline. Just not as much more as methanol....


Rog


that is not exactly true. especially if you are telling someone that is taking a stock vehicle to the local racetrack/dragstrip.

basically if your not set up for it, you will get less power then cheep pump gas. thats all im tryi8ng to say.

if you are not set up for it, you are NOT going to get 4% more power by running e85. if you are not set up for it you are NOT going to get 6% ore power running methanol. if you are not set up for it you are NOT going to get more power with race gas.

[zedicus00]

note on setting up for other fuels. you can rejet and change the carb and get about any engine to run good on other fuels and get a bit more performance. ideally to get the best performance out of other fuels you need to do some math and figure on changing your compression ratio.

[1promodfan]

Originally posted by zedicus00
i just have to add this.

if you 'talk to a guy who work.... who knows.... who has built....' etc, and instantly you believe everything that flows out his mouth. then i have a cherry 1980 ford pinto i would like to sell you for 5000$. garunteed to double you investment money in 6 months. i will even cover all shipping costs provided you reimburse me before you take delivery of any items.

Maybe I was wrong.....I was thinking of gasoline with ethanol in it. I've never heard anything good about gas w/ ethanol in it. As far as PURE ethanol......isn't that about the same or close to methanol??? I'm sorry if I mis-read the thread title.......

Hey Zedicus, I was going to offer you $6000 for that Pinto, but beings you said $5000, I'll take it:p

[Creech52]

E85 is not pure ethanol (hence the 85...85%)

If your engine is built for higher octane I do not see any major issues with running E85, though you will need to re-jet as you need more E85 then regular dino fuel.

Browse around the net, there are FACTS a plenty on running E85 and the benefits. I know it is really catching on in the high performance auto market. It should only require a few minor changes to run safely.

My only worry would be the effects of the ethanol on certain rubbers. This is why there are specific vehicles that can safely run E85 from the factory, "flex fuel" cars and trucks have had changes made to the fuel system to be ethanol freindly.

[hondamancbr03]

Need opinions regarding running E85 in my bike.......350PV with about 215/220 psi, haven't check the ucc (uncorrected compression) but i just had a head cut and CC'd to drop from 235 to 220.....So what are the opinions on running E85 with that compression?

[Creech52]

I would say compression wise your ok to run it.

Like my previous post there are some other minor things I would look into before running it. The main thing will be tuning as it takes roughly twice as much E85 as it does regular fuel.

Also as I said there are plenty of facts floating around about running it in an automotive based 4 cycle engine, and the principals are pretty much the same.

In short if your a novice when it comes to tuning this is not something I would dive right into.

[hondamancbr03]

I hate to age myself but i have 20+ years working and tuning two strokes, but i only have about 20+ minutes worth of E85 education! I've ran mainly race fuels (full and 50/50) depending on bike setup and at one time we experimented with aviation fuels in our drag VW motors.......Thanks for the insight, i will do my homework before even considering it.

[zedicus00]

E85 is 85% ethanol. like someone said. it is mixed with 15% gasoline so that people wont drink it. if you would like 95% ethanol feal free to use everclear.

[hondamancbr03]

When we did run alcohol in our Banshee’s it was a requirement that we purged our engine and carbs and the end of the day…..If not, the mixture would rust the main bearings and cause pitting. I’m going to assume that E85 could possible cause the same issue with the chemical mixture of Ethanol and gas…..NO THANKS!

[zedicus00]

methanol derived from natural gas is very hard on metals and some plastics.

ethanol derived from plants is very hard on some plastics and types of rubber.

[hondamancbr03]

Originally posted by zedicus00
methanol derived from natural gas is very hard on metals and some plastics.

ethanol derived from plants is very hard on some plastics and types of rubber.

As in crank seal types of rubber? All in all it doesn't sound like it's worth the risk for saving a couple dollars....in my opinion.