I just got my DS back from another 5 week trip to the dealer

[bwkcobra03]

:mad: :mad: I just got my ds back from another 5 week trip to the dealer. I have only owned my ds for 6 months and it was in for repairs for 13 weeks of the 6 months i owned it. I was so unhappy today when i picked it up from the dealer i asked the salesman if I can trade it in on something more reliable. When I got home I went for a test ride and forgot how nice it rides next to all the other 450's that I have ridden including my banshee and my wife's ltz400. This machine is an awesome ride but a piece of crap at the same time. I cant belive that it took 5 weeks to get the parts to fix it. :mad: :mad:

Maybe I will upgrade to KTM.

For sale Bill balnce full exhaust, motorworks fmi, pro design pro flow intake and K&N air filter. I am willing to sell as a set only.

I am also going to sell my 08 ds450 x all stock unless want to buy accessories with it.

make me an offer.

[Blizzard24]

I have waited long enough to post about this... so here is my story.

At the end of April I had an AMA National Race in NC, finished the race but saw oil weeping from around the clutch cover/case cover area. I also noticed some oil in the air box.

I had the 09 clutch update done, so I assumed there was a bad gasket or seal so on May 15th (After getting back from vacation) I dropped the quad off at the dealer to have them replace the bad seal/gasket.

2 weeks later as my next race approaches I call my dealer to find out what the hold up is and if I will have the bike back for the next race. They tell me the case cover is bad and they ordered new parts and I will be ready for the race.
2 days before my race I call up and start asking wtf is going on, they cant find the problem, the area is still weeping oil. They call Can-Am and after three techs, one tech finally says "I am sending new 2010 cases, there is an internal crack that we have seen in a few cases.

No ride for round 4 of the AMA national, I end up on a Bone Stock Polaris Outlaw and make it one mile into the woods before I ride the tire right off the bead (why beadlocks are a neccesity for XC).

DNF, no points... my $13,000 race bike sat in the dealer service area as I was sitting on the side of a track 200 miles away waching the two guys I am in a points race with go by a few times.
That was June 13th. (One month since I dropped the quad off)

After I get back I start calling my dealer to find out whats going on and suprise... no cases have been sent to the dealer yet.
I begin to contact Can Am repeatedly and I get NOTHING in response from them... last week my dealer calls me and tells me the cases are finally off backorder and they should have them by the end of the week.

Here it is the Tuesday before my next race this weekend and I have still not seen my bike.

WEEK 9!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been one of Can Am's biggest supporters.. even as everybody I race with bashes them... and this is what we get for trying to support this company.

Weeks upon weeks of our bikes sitting there. I too had my quad less than 6 months when the quad went in for this repair and 2.5 months later I still have not seen my bike.


Can-Am... you listening yet?

[blaster99]

Honestly, my quad has been in for repairs, two times the motor had to be pulled ,one for the case gasket, then for the cracked cases. It was also at the dealer to fix my clutch cover leak. It wasn't in there for more than a week. I think it's your dealers guys. Mine has been awesome, and they are quick about everything. Whenever we call can-am, they know who we are, and what happened, this makes me think your dealers aren't even calling can-am.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by blaster99
Honestly, my quad has been in for repairs, two times the motor had to be pulled ,one for the case gasket, then for the cracked cases. It was also at the dealer to fix my clutch cover leak. It wasn't in there for more than a week. I think it's your dealers guys. Mine has been awesome, and they are quick about everything. Whenever we call can-am, they know who we are, and what happened, this makes me think your dealers aren't even calling can-am.

I can assure you it isnt the dealer. When I dropped it off, they had the replacement gasket in a few days, once it still weeped they ordered a new case cover and gaskets and had those parts within a week. Spent the next week, trying to figure out why the cover was still weeping before they got Can Am involved.

So that was the time up until the week before my race. Can am said they were sendning the cases out on June 11th, the cases didnt arrive until last week (July 9th).
Now my dealer is getting my engine back together so hopefully I have it today or tomorrow.

Someone else on the forums just stated his cases were cracked and they are on backorder again.

[bwkcobra03]

The problem with getting parts for our machines is Can AM's fault. All the parts on these machines are being updated constantly. they can not produce the new updated parts fast enough to fix all the broken ds450 in the world. We all will have the same problem because we are dealing with French Canadian enginears. Can am needs to hire some Japs to run their company and then our quads will be bullet proof. lol

hay Blizzard my ds was sitting next to your ds at the dealer. Carl and Jeff were dooing the best they could for us.

I had to cancel my vacation the first week in july to go riding at the Hatfield & Mc Coy trails in WV.

We should all keep calling BRP and complane about can am's sercice to there customers.

13 weeks of waiting for parts is not ac
ceptible when you think you are getting the best of the best. 8 weeks for clutch update, when the clutch broke And 5 weeks for the new clutch basket when the baskets cheep rivited design sheared off and lost all foward gears.

[ScottB125]

Damn guys, this sucks!


Where are your motors leaking oil at?


After reading this...I bet I'm going to be waiting on my 09 clutch update.....Dealer said it would take a week to get the parts. I'll cross my fingers and hope they are there today.

[xrxmxcx]

I'm sorry but I think that it is ridiculous to be pointing fingers at Can-am for something that is your dealerships responsibility. There's no reason why Can-am would have a hold up sending your parts in, and I highly doubt that they were sending 2010 cases on your behalf. I have heard about this case gasket, and hairline fractures in the cases themselves and they have all been replaced with 2009's which were redesigned, required to be torqued, or had the gaskets replaced.

Have your dealership call Can-am, and you will find out that you can get away with having them replace the gasket to stop the oil leak. 99.99% of the time it is caused by a incorrectly torqued bolt causing the gasket to blow out. My bike was not leaking oil and we torqued them to be sure.

[RobRacing]

Problems always persist with first year quads. I am glad I have been waiting hopefully the 2010 ds's will have all the bugs worked out (or most of them).

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by ScottB125
Damn guys, this sucks!


Where are your motors leaking oil at?


After reading this...I bet I'm going to be waiting on my 09 clutch update.....Dealer said it would take a week to get the parts. I'll cross my fingers and hope they are there today.

The weeping occured around the clutch cover and case cover. I am assuming there are hairline fractures in the cases that was creating pressure in the clutch cover area forcing the oil out around those gaskets and out the air intake.

The 09 Clutch update took shouldnt take long to get the parts in as this has been an issue and I am sure Can Am has created enough parts to fix the issues.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by xrxmxcx
I'm sorry but I think that it is ridiculous to be pointing fingers at Can-am for something that is your dealerships responsibility. There's no reason why Can-am would have a hold up sending your parts in, and I highly doubt that they were sending 2010 cases on your behalf. I have heard about this case gasket, and hairline fractures in the cases themselves and they have all been replaced with 2009's which were redesigned, required to be torqued, or had the gaskets replaced.

Have your dealership call Can-am, and you will find out that you can get away with having them replace the gasket to stop the oil leak. 99.99% of the time it is caused by a incorrectly torqued bolt causing the gasket to blow out. My bike was not leaking oil and we torqued them to be sure.

Backordered was the reason... backordered from Can Am, just as another member on this Can Am forum has stated he will now be waiting for.

As for Highly doubting if they are sending 2010 cases... if the 09's and the 2010's are the same cases and they are producing 2010 models now, why wouldn't they be sending 2010 cases?

Before you go saying anything... I checked the simple things like torqued bolts, I have been around quads a very long time. I know how to work on these things. If it were just torqued bolts it wouldnt have been sending oil out the air intake into the filter/air box.


The dealer called Can Am and spoke to three different techs and the techs were the ones that said its the cases... not the gaskets.
And if it wasnt the cases why is Can Am footing the entire bill for the parts and labor?

When you have some facts that it isnt Can-Ams fault, come speak to me! The dealer has done everything correctly not just with this but with every other issue there has been on my behalf.

[kellymi]

I know on my 09 Ive never had a problem with leaking oil. But I am also one of the lucky few that got a 09 without the clutch update. I Finally had to take my quad to the dealer 5 hours away because the dealers around my area don't know anything. Right now I am getting the clutch update done and the dealer is waiting on a back ordered part. They are waiting on the clutch cover. I know how you guys feel, I missed a race on Sunday because of that cover! I love the quad but the service sucks!:mad:

[ScottB125]

Ditto on the service. I call to see if my clutch came in...they have no record of me even ordering the damn thing...wow.


I came REAL close to buying a Kawasaki 450....thinking I should have.

[SilverBomb]

Originally posted by ScottB125
Ditto on the service. I call to see if my clutch came in...they have no record of me even ordering the damn thing...wow.


I came REAL close to buying a Kawasaki 450....thinking I should have.

Believe me, you should be very glad you didn't pick up the Kawi. I've heard the Cranks on them break. This is coming from a local shop that builds race motors.
That being said, it sounds like a lot of Can-Am dealers are pansies and not stepping up to the plate.

[mhill157]

My question is why don't the dealers stock any part? Have to wait a week for oil filter, after a week had to next day air cam chain tensioner because dealer mess up, and wheel bearings which are the same for many can am models took a week. Simple things to have on hand without major overhead.

[TNT]

Originally posted by xrxmxcx
I'm sorry but I think that it is ridiculous to be pointing fingers at Can-am for something that is your dealerships responsibility. There's no reason why Can-am would have a hold up sending your parts in, and I highly doubt that they were sending 2010 cases on your behalf. I have heard about this case gasket, and hairline fractures in the cases themselves and they have all been replaced with 2009's which were redesigned, required to be torqued, or had the gaskets replaced.

Have your dealership call Can-am, and you will find out that you can get away with having them replace the gasket to stop the oil leak. 99.99% of the time it is caused by a incorrectly torqued bolt causing the gasket to blow out. My bike was not leaking oil and we torqued them to be sure.

If these cases are indeed experiencing hair line cracks that’s more than a torque issue just replacing the gasket will not solve permanently. The mating surface(s) flatness and/or perpendicularity are not being controlled well enough, so when torque is applied surface stresses cause cracks. This is where it gets tricky in mass production, all kinds of factors from the design tolerance to the capability of the milling machine(that got old and inaccurate) can cause this, a few got past inspection.


Originally posted by bwkcobra03
The problem with getting parts for our machines is Can AM's fault. All the parts on these machines are being updated constantly. they can not produce the new updated parts fast enough to fix all the broken ds450 in the world. We all will have the same problem because we are dealing with French Canadian enginears. Can am needs to hire some Japs to run their company and then our quads will be bullet proof. lol

Made me laugh what you said about the French CAN and Jap Engineer’s…I am working with Mitsubishi, Kawasaki, and Fuji Engineering now they do seem to do a decent job.

Let’s see if can spread some light to those interested in how part shortages can occur; it’s not usually the engineers and in some cases the OEM's fault…….

Let’s say the 2009-X cases get redesigned by the engineer to 2010-Y cases and the engineer releases a drawing change whilst 09’s are moving down the line. In well organized companies(not all are mind you), a “Change Board” determines based on the production rate of new 2010 cases when they can commit one to a quad and from that point on 2010 are used. At the same time the change board has a commitment to “spares” for dealers to stock. The Industrial Engineer’s look at the shops capacity; flow rates, cost, capability, etc, and many times the only answer is a supplier who has their own set of issues.

A lot of OEM’s like the one I work for rely heavily on supplier’s to deliver parts on time, many don’t and in many cases it is not uncommon to see discontent customers and orders cancelled. Believe me Can-Am is not the only one; many HUGE companies like the one I work for experience the same thing as we are now on the order of two year delays with billions and billions in potential losses. Many companies today is this global market are expanding out to suppliers for marketing and sales accross the globe and to share in the risk, up front development and production cost. Right now due to the global economy some are struggling financially leaving OEM’s with no choice but to consolidate, buy them out or fold, or with their hands tied! We’re seeing part shortages and service issues in many industries especially automotive with all the dealership reductions and bancruptcies.

[Blizzard24]

I am extremely frustrated with the time frame this has taken, but Can Am shares most of the fault here along with Rotax. If they have seen instances where the cases were/are failing they should have ramped up production of the 2009/2010 cases to ensure they could meet the potential needs of the customers.

I am super impressed that Can Am Stepped up yet again to replace these cases for me and eat the bill but any way I try to look at it, I cant get past the issue of having a 6 month old quad with less than 10 hrs on it sit at a dealership for over two months waiting for parts to become available.

Tomorrow makes week #9 my bike has sat at the dealer, SUPPOSEDLY (I say that loosely) My bike will be ready for me to pick up tonight... then I have tomorrow night to prep the bike for a 2 hr race sat at noon. UGGGHHHH fun times fun times.

[blaster99]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
I am extremely frustrated with the time frame this has taken, but Can Am shares most of the fault here along with Rotax. If they have seen instances where the cases were/are failing they should have ramped up production of the 2009/2010 cases to ensure they could meet the potential needs of the customers.

I am super impressed that Can Am Stepped up yet again to replace these cases for me and eat the bill but any way I try to look at it, I cant get past the issue of having a 6 month old quad with less than 10 hrs on it sit at a dealership for over two months waiting for parts to become available.

Tomorrow makes week #9 my bike has sat at the dealer, SUPPOSEDLY (I say that loosely) My bike will be ready for me to pick up tonight... then I have tomorrow night to prep the bike for a 2 hr race sat at noon. UGGGHHHH fun times fun times.

My bike took less than a week for the cases. I'm still saying its the dealer.

[craigmacphee]

I can share in your pain Blizzard. After getting my initial clutch update, only to have my cover leak anti freeze like a siv when I went to pick it up, I have been waiting for a new clutch cover, seals, etc... since May12th (or maybe May 15th) I have not called them once because they were going to call me when it came in. Right!!!!!! I called them on Tuesday to see wtf was going on. Their answer to me was "We're going to next day air you one because we don't have any record of it being ordered..." It is supposed to be here today. So, we'll see. My guess is that it won't be here today, or even next week.

Someone said they their dealer had to order everything from BRP if they wanted it. I can't agree more. When I picked up my quad, I had to order extra plugs and oil filters. What a joke. I should have seen the writing on the wall, but it was overshadowed by the promise of a "racer support" program.

I know everything for my Raptor was either at the dealer when I needed it or 1-3 days away. Not that I ever had to work on my Raptor because it was broke, but I have did upgrades to make the rocket machine go faster.

I too have missed races due to my luck with BRP. I have one this Sunday and One next Thursday. I bet I miss them both. Believe me, its not because I cut corners or try to do things the cheap way. I'd be willing to spend whatever it took to get it running right. The money is not the issue!

I just got done building a $15,000, 7/10's of a mile practice track at my property here in Michigan. So far, my kids and nephew are the only ones who have been able to benefit from it. They all race KTM bikes.

So....to all of you who have felt like you've been had by BRP, I too can feel for you. And...to all of the supporters of BRP, ask yourselves if you've been treated like us, how you would feel. It's amazing....if people are sponsored by companies, and get their stuff for free when "they" want it, they often times have a much different outlook on the company that screws other people over.

[blaster99]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
I can share in your pain Blizzard. After getting my initial clutch update, only to have my cover leak anti freeze like a siv when I went to pick it up, I have been waiting for a new clutch cover, seals, etc... since May12th (or maybe May 15th) I have not called them once because they were going to call me when it came in. Right!!!!!! I called them on Tuesday to see wtf was going on. Their answer to me was "We're going to next day air you one because we don't have any record of it being ordered..." It is supposed to be here today. So, we'll see. My guess is that it won't be here today, or even next week.

Someone said they their dealer had to order everything from BRP if they wanted it. I can't agree more. When I picked up my quad, I had to order extra plugs and oil filters. What a joke. I should have seen the writing on the wall, but it was overshadowed by the promise of a "racer support" program.

I know everything for my Raptor was either at the dealer when I needed it or 1-3 days away. Not that I ever had to work on my Raptor because it was broke, but I have did upgrades to make the rocket machine go faster.

I too have missed races due to my luck with BRP. I have one this Sunday and One next Thursday. I bet I miss them both. Believe me, its not because I cut corners or try to do things the cheap way. I'd be willing to spend whatever it took to get it running right. The money is not the issue!

I just got done building a $15,000, 7/10's of a mile practice track at my property here in Michigan. So far, my kids and nephew are the only ones who have been able to benefit from it. They all race KTM bikes.

So....to all of you who have felt like you've been had by BRP, I too can feel for you. And...to all of the supporters of BRP, ask yourselves if you've been treated like us, how you would feel. It's amazing....if people are sponsored by companies, and get their stuff for free when "they" want it, they often times have a much different outlook on the company that screws other people over.

I don't understand how having to order spark plugs and oil filters is Can-Am's fault. That is the terrible dealers that you guys must have. I have not been screwed over by brp, and I don't think you are either. Your deals should stock parts. It also is not brp's fault if your dealer forgets to order parts! Be angry at your dealer, not can-am!

[TNT]

Blaster and Blizzard you’re both right and wrong in assigning blame. Can-am for all kinds of reasons(I can only guess)(some maybe out of thier control at this point like the economy) from not having a lean build process that is time consuming, to selecting bad suppliers, to bad designs, to faulty machinery....causing back orders making parts unavailable; and dealers for not stocking parts or bad service…. From what I understand BRP qualifies and rates their dealers based on sales, sales in water products and I bet they stock according to volume of sales, mine is currently swamped!! I know mine has a high rating and can get parts fast! We have never had problems with the service(which we rarlely use) and/or parts department. I am extremely impressed with the Race Team and thier programs, they have went out of their way to help us out. Have not experienced the quad fully though yet we just got it running, but I realize that I have reconfigured the design it is now an advanced race quad and my reliability expectations have been drastically reduced!

Here’s my dealer: Marine World, ask for Devin, 316-265-2628. They can ship anywhere.

[Blizzard24]

Terry, My dealer had the 09 clutch parts pretty much before any dealer from the posts I have read here. Race parts within a couple of days. The dealer is a large dealership that sells Sea Doo Boats/ PWC, Ski Doo Snowmobiles and and Can Am ATV's as well as having full stock of Can Am Spyders.
This dealer bought out the inventory of two other dealers as per Can Am asking them to take on this extra inventory.

I dont think it is due to my dealer not having the rating of some other dealers... BKCobra got his quad into my dealer a few days before me and had his parts 4 weeks earlier than I did, My dealer had all the gaskets and seals sitting there waiting for these cases to arrive sio it was just luck of the draw if the parts were available.

I can walk in and get anything I need as far as wearable parts go... oil filters, plugs, BRP Oil, anything else. I needed a clutch gasket and they ordered it and had it within two days.

Can Am stated to them, the cases were going to be shipped out on June 11th and every week after I was calling my dealer and they said the same thing over and over... "Still waiting for the cases". 2 Fridays ago they let me know the cases were finally off backorder and they would receive them tues or wed last week. I called to see if they arrived thursday and they said they did and they would be working on the quad. Today I go to pick it up.

This is in NO WAY my dealers fault, Either they were running production for the 2010 models and didnt want to spare the parts or they just completed the 2010 production run and had nothing to send out.

I just got off the phone with my dealer, no leaks and its running, they are taking the quad out for some test runs... I have my fingers crossed, if something isnt right, I am on the Stock Polaris Outlaw yet again, maybe this Sat I can complete at least one lap.

I love having the support of Can Am yet finding myself on another manufacturers atv. You should here the crap I take for that.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
Either they were running production for the 2010 models and didnt want to spare the parts or they just completed the 2010 production run and had nothing to send out.

That more than likey was the case. Anyway, glad you got it running and go get em at the race!

I just read KTM cut back production..that is going to cause part shortages. Be glad you don't own one of them. :rolleyes:

[Quadevil]

Originally posted by TNT
I just read KTM cut back production..that is going to cause part shortages. Be glad you don't own one of them. :rolleyes:

That is only in the States. KTM is going to cut back production of bikes+quads but will continue the supply of parts.

[mhill157]

Blizzard consider yourself luck you have been able to race. I had a maintenance budget of $4000 to race this season, which has been spent of parts and tools, and now I have to rebuild my tranny and who knows what else. With my Honda I was able to race a season on about $2000.

I have not hit a race yet and the quad will not hold together long enough to get 2 motos worth of practice.

I am taking a beating from the people that ride on my private track because I never ride. That and they keep telling me to get a Bike.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Quadevil
That is only in the States. KTM is going to cut back production of bikes+quads but will continue the supply of parts.

Last I heard it’s a global recession and the states are not doing as bad as Europe and Japan. Think I seen somewhere Europe had a -5 GNP, States -2 ½; China and India where the only ones in the positive.

With that being said I don’t see how KTM is going to recoupe their development cost other than raise part cost which I hear is already relatively high. Let’s hope that’s not the case but it has to come out of the wash somewhere.

Maybe we all should go out and buy Chinaquads......lol!

[craigmacphee]

Being an owner of (2) KTM 50's, (1) KTM 65, and (1) KTM 250 SX-F, I can tell you with all certainty that I have never experienced a problem with any of those that was not taken care of within 3 days. When I went to the dealer to see if they had a new clutch for my little guys 50, they had it in stock. Nothing has ever been on back order with our KTM dealers.

As far as a spark plug and oil filter, you are absolutely right. Not having one in stock is piss poor planning on my dealers part.

To my surprise (Not really), the clutch cover and seals my dealer next day air'd on Tuesday did not arrive to them today. Again, I'd be willing to bet the national race team does not have this problem getting their parts.

Now I see why I am the only one on a Can-am at the races.

[Quadevil]

Originally posted by TNT
Last I heard it’s a global recession and the states are not doing as bad as Europe and Japan. Think I seen somewhere Europe had a -5 GNP, States -2 ½; China and India where the only ones in the positive.

With that being said I don’t see how KTM is going to recoupe their development cost other than raise part cost which I hear is already relatively high. Let’s hope that’s not the case but it has to come out of the wash somewhere.

Maybe we all should go out and buy Chinaquads......lol!

Yes, i know about that, the economy is really bad right now. Although KTM is pushing forward atleast in Europe.
They've realeased the 2010 models with improvements, i've already seen the pics.
They cut the costs in several things, for example: XC no longer has Ohlins (it has WP now), no longer has Maxxis (roadgo now) etc

[craigmacphee]

Just an update on my "next day" air delivery of my updated clutch cover and kit. I got a call today from my dealer telling me that the kit and cover have been put on back order until October. OCTOBER!!!!! Are you fricken kidding me??? I have a quad that they agreed to fix for me because there was a defect. They send out a jacked up kit the middle of May that had to be sent back because it was defective. This is the middle of July, and they tell me they cannot get me a good part until October.

I'm not sure how much you are supporters of Can Am, but if you are, ask yourself if you got treated like this how you would feel??? I am a factory support racer and I cannot get a part that will help me keep my quad clutch together.

So, this is what I am faced with. Ride a quad that has no remaining factory warranty (because they let me sign up as a racer), or park it for the remainder of the season. All of this on a brand new quad that I bought 4-15-09. So, effectively, I had 1 month of use out of a 2009. I am so pissed off I can hardly stand it.

Does anyone have a solution or can anyone provide me with some help?

Thanks, Craig MacPhee (989)550-2197

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
Just an update on my "next day" air delivery of my updated clutch cover and kit. I got a call today from my dealer telling me that the kit and cover have been put on back order until October. OCTOBER!!!!! Are you fricken kidding me??? I have a quad that they agreed to fix for me because there was a defect. They send out a jacked up kit the middle of May that had to be sent back because it was defective. This is the middle of July, and they tell me they cannot get me a good part until October.

I'm not sure how much you are supporters of Can Am, but if you are, ask yourself if you got treated like this how you would feel??? I am a factory support racer and I cannot get a part that will help me keep my quad clutch together.

So, this is what I am faced with. Ride a quad that has no remaining factory warranty (because they let me sign up as a racer), or park it for the remainder of the season. All of this on a brand new quad that I bought 4-15-09. So, effectively, I had 1 month of use out of a 2009. I am so pissed off I can hardly stand it.

Does anyone have a solution or can anyone provide me with some help?

Thanks, Craig MacPhee (989)550-2197

Your going to have to start getting nasty with someone, but you need to make them give you a new quad. I would go as far as to inform them that you will be getting a lawyer. If they can not fix yours they need to replace it. That is unacceptable.

I feel for you man. Stories like these and all the DNF's that I see on the GNCC and GNC circuit in the pro ranks just solidifies to me that I will NEVER buy a Can-Am.

[nbm]

I think it's just a matter of time before the ds450 goes the way of the cannondale and can am will have nobody to blame but themselves. I think they have made two critical mistakes. First, I think most people don't find the quad very attractive. I think my ds looks ok in person but for some reason it looks ugly in print. secondly is quality and the lack of support for the lack of quality. The odd part of this is when I purchased my quad I was more concerned about the frame and all the other aluminum components but it's the engine that is having most of the issues. tranny problems, clutch problems, case problems, flywheel bolts to name some of the common ones. I use to have a favorable opinion of rotax as they have been building engines for years. I know the ds 650 engine didn't have any issues and was a very powerful engine. every day that goes by it is going to be harder for can am to sell one of these quads as word gets out about there questionable reliability. I know when I go riding if someone ask about the quad I am going to tell them to consider something else.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
Your going to have to start getting nasty with someone, but you need to make them give you a new quad. I would go as far as to inform them that you will be getting a lawyer. If they can not fix yours they need to replace it. That is unacceptable.

I feel for you man. Stories like these and all the DNF's that I see on the GNCC and GNC circuit in the pro ranks just solidifies to me that I will NEVER buy a Can-Am.

Getting a lawyer is going to do absolutely nothing as he is part of the racer program and the quad is considered a race vehicle with no implied warranty. Believe me, I thought about it with waiting the two months I have been down.

Craig, I would get the Hinson Basket, most of the Can Am teams last year ran the basket before there was a clutch update and they helped alleviate the problem. I would get the basket so you can run the quad and when the parts come in, do the update. This is exactly what I did and now that the update is done I have a much stronger basket along with the added protection of the update.

I will stress, the metal clutch plates can still fail so this isnt a cure but it should keep you on the track for the rest of the summer.

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
Getting a lawyer is going to do absolutely nothing as he is part of the racer program and the quad is considered a race vehicle with no implied warranty. Believe me, I thought about it with waiting the two months I have been down.



Not so sure I agree. They ADMIT its a known problem and are unable to fix it. Its not my quad, so I really don't care, but I think the fella has a leg to stand on. I would not just roll over and say ok and waste the entire summer away while my quad sat at the shop.

On another note, this "racer program" sounds like an absolute joke. So, what? You have a warranty on the quad as long as your not part of the racer program? Thats bs. Its a race quad whether you really race it or not. Again, thank God I don't have to deal with this quad or this company, but this does absolutely nothing to help solidify a GOOD reputation for them. Sounds like you all got hosed and theres no way I'd take this as calmly as you have.

[ScottB125]

Does anyone have pictures of where the covers are cracked/leaking at?

If I were the dealer and had an extra 450 sitting, I would pull it off and give it to you. Chances are, they aren;t going to sell it..lol.

[TNT]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
Just an update on my "next day" air delivery of my updated clutch cover and kit. I got a call today from my dealer telling me that the kit and cover have been put on back order until October. OCTOBER!!!!! Are you fricken kidding me??? I have a quad that they agreed to fix for me because there was a defect. They send out a jacked up kit the middle of May that had to be sent back because it was defective. This is the middle of July, and they tell me they cannot get me a good part until October.

I'm not sure how much you are supporters of Can Am, but if you are, ask yourself if you got treated like this how you would feel??? I am a factory support racer and I cannot get a part that will help me keep my quad clutch together.

So, this is what I am faced with. Ride a quad that has no remaining factory warranty (because they let me sign up as a racer), or park it for the remainder of the season. All of this on a brand new quad that I bought 4-15-09. So, effectively, I had 1 month of use out of a 2009. I am so pissed off I can hardly stand it.

Does anyone have a solution or can anyone provide me with some help?

Thanks, Craig MacPhee (989)550-2197

If you look at any OEM warrantee the second you race it toast!

Craig where exactly are you leaking anti-freeze and how much?

[craigmacphee]

TNT...with the updated clutch cover, it was leaking antifreeze from the inner shaft seal.

As far as getting a lawyer goes, I would be willing to bet that if I asked for a jury trial I could find a jury that would be willing to give me a new quad or my money back. I'm still holding out hope because my parents always brought me up not to sue anyone when you have the opportunity to work it out amongst adults.

Today, I called the dealership and talked to the GM. He told me he was going to call the Can-Am rep, and call me back. Well, as you can imagine, I did not receive any return call.

I guess I'll call again on monday. In the meantime, I have a race on Sunday. I'm thinking about going to the race and hanging a 100 or so lemons off the quad and parking it in the front entrance row. I'm sure it won't hurt Can-Am in the least but it will make me feel better.

[mhill157]

The only type of lawsuit that would make a difference would be a class action. Even then we would get nothing out of it. I had a friend sue a dealer over a motorcycle and it took a year to get his replacement. Tell me that was worth the 2000 in lawyer fees.

[kellymi]

I am in the same boat as you guys. I am waiting on the clutch cover also. I just wanted to get the clutch update done and that is the only thing they are waiting on. It has been at the dealership 3 weeks now just waiting on the cover. The dealership can't give me time on when it will come in!:mad: If this clutch cover is going to be on back order that long I am going to get rid of this quad. I dont know how i would get rid of it but i sure will look really hard at it and get something else.

I love the quad and i have had no troubles with it so far. But, there is no point in having it if it's sitting at the dealership.

[blaster99]

Originally posted by kellymi
I am in the same boat as you guys. I am waiting on the clutch cover also. I just wanted to get the clutch update done and that is the only thing they are waiting on. It has been at the dealership 3 weeks now just waiting on the cover. The dealership can't give me time on when it will come in!:mad: If this clutch cover is going to be on back order that long I am going to get rid of this quad. I dont know how i would get rid of it but i sure will look really hard at it and get something else.

I love the quad and i have had no troubles with it so far. But, there is no point in having it if it's sitting at the dealership.

take it back, and have them call you when your clutch cover is in. Seems like a simple solution to me...

[coryatver]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
TNT...with the updated clutch cover, it was leaking antifreeze from the inner shaft seal.

As far as getting a lawyer goes, I would be willing to bet that if I asked for a jury trial I could find a jury that would be willing to give me a new quad or my money back. I'm still holding out hope because my parents always brought me up not to sue anyone when you have the opportunity to work it out amongst adults.

Today, I called the dealership and talked to the GM. He told me he was going to call the Can-Am rep, and call me back. Well, as you can imagine, I did not receive any return call.

I guess I'll call again on monday. In the meantime, I have a race on Sunday. I'm thinking about going to the race and hanging a 100 or so lemons off the quad and parking it in the front entrance row. I'm sure it won't hurt Can-Am in the least but it will make me feel better.

sorry man. If i was you i think i would take the huge loss and dump it cheap and buy a different quad. I know of a few guys who have had problems getting parts for the ktm and they had to go buy a different quad so they could keep racing.

[grantmi]

Originally posted by blaster99
take it back, and have them call you when your clutch cover is in. Seems like a simple solution to me...

The risk is that the dealership started on the clutch upgrade just prior to the end of warranty.

If Kelly takes it back and the clutch blows, he will have no remaining warranty to get it fixed. And yes, the clutch was getting worse, which was the reason for demanding the upgrade. Depending on the $$ it could end his season.

The backorder on the clutch is the latest, but even I am frustrated for Kelly on the run around that he's gotten trying to get the update and even basic service.

I know people keep saying find a better dealer, but when all the dealers in the state of Iowa are worthless; it is a Can-Am problem.

I hate to say it, but at least when the Polaris quads break you can get parts.

[outtagas]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
Not so sure I agree. They ADMIT its a known problem and are unable to fix it. Its not my quad, so I really don't care, but I think the fella has a leg to stand on. I would not just roll over and say ok and waste the entire summer away while my quad sat at the shop.

On another note, this "racer program" sounds like an absolute joke. So, what? You have a warranty on the quad as long as your not part of the racer program? Thats bs. Its a race quad whether you really race it or not. Again, thank God I don't have to deal with this quad or this company, but this does absolutely nothing to help solidify a GOOD reputation for them. Sounds like you all got hosed and theres no way I'd take this as calmly as you have.

I had a major frame issue with my Can-Am...hired a lawyer to try to get a replacement quad or money back and not a chance. $2k to my lawyer, and my lawyer was excellent. Unless you are prepared to take them to court and dump another $15k at least into a lawyer, you'll get no where with them. They know exactly what they are doing, and exactly what the fine print is. The bottom line is this...if you don't have a CanAm steer clear of them, and if you do have one, get rid of it and take the loss.

[TNT]

Originally posted by outtagas
I had a major frame issue with my Can-Am...hired a lawyer to try to get a replacement quad or money back and not a chance. $2k to my lawyer, and my lawyer was excellent. Unless you are prepared to take them to court and dump another $15k at least into a lawyer, you'll get no where with them. They know exactly what they are doing, and exactly what the fine print is. The bottom line is this...if you don't have a CanAm steer clear of them, and if you do have one, get rid of it and take the loss.

I got lets see $150K in losses from two yam's can you give me your laywers #, if I pay him/her $15 I make out. Bottom line welcome to racing and good luck in court ya all, Lawyer's love racers like divorces and bancruptcies....

Gee back in 04 it was yam or hon now thats theres more everyone b-ithes......Take can, kawi, suk, ktm OUT my dime says ppl still beach!

[Blizzard24]

Man... I have a love/ hate relationship with this quad lol. Got the quad back Friday night at 5pm, spent the night prepping the quad for the AMA National XC Race in NY until 11pm.

Added the Full motoworks system and FMI

Got on the starting line yesterday at 12pm, took third or 4th off the start and fell in love w the DS for the next 2+ hrs. The quad did amazing and the new exhaust and FMI added some serious grunt to the quad. I could lug the quad a gear high in all conditions.

Anyway... quad is running great and no leaks, nothing wrong (knock on wood).

I am still pissed off it took 9 weeks (To the day!) to get my quad back but now that its back and running great I feel a little better, not much but a little.

[craigmacphee]

I too have a love/hate with this machine. I REALLY hate how Can-Am treats their racers and dealers. But...I love their quad when it works properly. It is SOOOOO embarassing to pull your quad up to the line and have it squeal like a stuck pig because your clutch is slipping. But, it's Can-Am taking the hit for it, not me. I don't advertise for them, the quad advertises for itself. Anyway....

Today I raced in the amateur novice class. Again, I was the only Can-AM at the track. I started out dead last in the first moto and managed to climb back up to third. In the second moto, I pulled the holeshot, then got caught on the last lap to finish 2nd in that moto and 2nd overall.

So....if BRP ever got their act together, and took better care of their racers, maybe the word could spread and I would not be the only guy at the track of 350 racers to be on a Can-Am.

Until then, I'll just keep running it how it is and representing it like IT is. Craig

[craigmacphee]

TNT:

I see you are right. I did NOT answer all of your questions. I realize you were trying to help and I appreciate that. So...here goes.Craig where exactly are you leaking anti-freeze and how much?

You asked: Where I am leaking coolant from, and how much...

My answer was:

TNT...with the updated clutch cover kit, it was leaking antifreeze from the inner shaft seal.

I forgot to mention "how much." But, after running 10 minutes, I lost approximately 6 ounces of coolant.

I am not a mechanic and would never pose as one. All I can tell you is that my dealer told me it was leaking around the "inner shaft seal" and I saw the evidence of the leak under my quad when I went to pick it up.

Thanks for your efforts. Craig

[TNT]

Craig sorry I misunderstood, easy to do out here and think some misunderstood Crix too. Just don’t want this site to turn into a place to gripe but more of place to find technical solutions. Constructive criticism like design change recommendations is one thing, but we have ppl that come out here and bash the quad that have not even made the investment into it’s future. Those people get nowhere and ruin it for the rest of us and without even knowing shoot themselves in the foot. It’s obvious to me these people have not been in racing long or forgot what it use to be like in 2004(Yam and Hon’s first year), or even further back..

Well our first 04 YAM we spent around $20K to get it MX race ready it was not as reliable as your DS today, the second 05 we built was featured in a Quad MAG retailing at $22k and it was not as reliable as you’re DS. Back then they offered no race programs, no access to pro parts(this is a first w/can am), no mod kits, nothing and most paid full retail and today YAM/HON/ETC does pretty much NOTHING for amaturs. Well let me tell you we were in your shoes, in the beginner class racing the YAM and had nothing but problems for a so called “race ready” quad, now what after fours years YAM totally redesign and is still having problems I hear. ……I remember the same frustration w/part shortages which still occur today and how I lost my warrantee the minute I put an after market pipe on. I loss a lot of money for that darn pipe in warrantee claims.

So we realized by the b-class that having a second quad cost less in maintenance and is safer as one we put many, many, hours on so we dedicated one to practice and one to racing that is reliable. If all works out on the DS this season I will purchase a second 2010, 2009 for practice/parts, 2010 strictly for racing. It’s a must it you ever traveled 3,000 miles to a national just to DNF due to a cheap seal you’d understand. Anyway, if we go back to the YAM HON 2004 days and loose the competitive market place today then we all suffer from high prices and unreliability again. Let’s all hope that does not happen and be grateful we have options everyone should be supportive of!!

So like you and others need to realize about this sport and any quad you own having a full inventory of parts or second quad is crucial to your success as you move up through the rants. Now I am not saying all can afford it, but most in the a-class, pro-am, and especially pro class have 2+ quads and are fully stocked on parts. You’ll find that and being a good mechanic is half the battle if not more. Hon and Yam have been around longer so parts are more available and cheaper. As you get up to the pro ranks it really get’s interesting trying to find that balance between power and reliability…Most pro’s will tell the riding ability’s in the top 5 or so are equal that boil’s down in part to the quad or plain luck!

I would think you could find an alternative seal and do yourself a favor get a manual and start working on your quad. I remember being in the same boat as you, knew nothing about quads but today my son works for one of the best engine builders in the world and I have learned a lot myself, it takes time get with some local shops and good mechanics, but be careful don’t believe everything they say to purchase like swing arm/a-arm lengths, etc……get several opinions…This site is a good place for that.

We ran a race mid-season a 3 hr hair scramble and in the middle of race we cracked the radiator kept running and every lap we’d pull in the pit and full up so don't let a leak stop you,

If you can’t find an alternative seal(check YAM and HON) post a pic of the leak and we’ll see what we can do to keep you racing.

TNT

[mhill157]

TnT: thanks for giving me Klyle's name I will call him in the morning. I took the engine cases to a machine shop to see if they could fix the engine cases, get rid of the pits and they said they would try. Then to top things off I didn't notice that were the shift fork rod goes into the case got broke of when the rod bent.
I am at the point it might be cheaper to get a crate motor than it would be to fix this one.

Side Note:
I sold a 4 yr old Honda with over $17000 invested and the only thing that ever went was the crank bearing. That was after at least 200hrs of practicing and racing which is a lot better then this DS. Pistons and other stuff was considered general maintenance.

[kellymi]

Got some good news today. Heard from the dealer that they got the parts in and it will be together by Wednesday. Which is just in time because my next race is next weekend. It will have been at the dealer 4.5 weeks.

[blaster99]

Originally posted by outtagas
I had a major frame issue with my Can-Am...hired a lawyer to try to get a replacement quad or money back and not a chance. $2k to my lawyer, and my lawyer was excellent. Unless you are prepared to take them to court and dump another $15k at least into a lawyer, you'll get no where with them. They know exactly what they are doing, and exactly what the fine print is. The bottom line is this...if you don't have a CanAm steer clear of them, and if you do have one, get rid of it and take the loss.

want to sell yours? I'll buy it for the right price.

[outtagas]

Originally posted by blaster99
want to sell yours? I'll buy it for the right price. \

2009 ds is gone and so is my migraine!!!!!! sweeeettt!!!!

I am a happy 09 yfz450r owner now.:D

[TNT]

Originally posted by outtagas
\

2009 ds is gone and so is my migraine!!!!!! sweeeettt!!!!

I am a happy 09 yfz450r owner now.:D

The mans soul has been sold to the devil! J/k

Good luck hope it works out better for ya!

[mhill157]

UPDATE: Someone is watching this forum guys. Got a call from the dealer that I bought the quad from and they wanted me to bring it in. Somebody at Can Am got in touch.

You should of seen the mechanics face when he saw the motor -priceless

[craigmacphee]

Just a quick question to "The person from Can-Am that reads this board???"

How in the world can KellyMI's dealer get his clutch cover in this past week, when last week my dealer and BRP rep told me the clutch cover was on back order until October? I know there has to be one out there somewhere, so does anyone have any further suggestions?

I have heard that the original cover can be drilled in two locations that will help the oil flow better over the clutch. Does anyone know who does this?

Thanks, Craig

[nbm]

good luck getting thru but you can try can am customer service. Can am has stated at least twice (once in the may 2009 issue page 36 the other I would have to look up) in atv sport magazine that they drill holes in the clutch basket on their race bike to solve the squealing problem. Now why they don't do this on the production quads is the part that I don't understand. Now you state it's the cover and they say it's the basket that the holes are drilled in so i'm not sure on this. I am pretty sure that the updated clutch cover only has one hole driiled in the oil passage to squirt oil on the clutch.

[craigmacphee]

Thanks for that tid bit. I don't know why I never thought of that. Two of my buddies write for (2) separate magazines and I will get with them to see what they have heard on this issue.

[grantmi]

Originally posted by craigmacphee
Just a quick question to "The person from Can-Am that reads this board???"

How in the world can KellyMI's dealer get his clutch cover in this past week, when last week my dealer and BRP rep told me the clutch cover was on back order until October? I know there has to be one out there somewhere, so does anyone have any further suggestions?

I have heard that the original cover can be drilled in two locations that will help the oil flow better over the clutch. Does anyone know who does this?

Thanks, Craig

You might try and call your dealer for an update....Kelly was not given a date when he was told it was back ordered. He just got a call middle of this week telling him that it was in.

I am glad that someone from Can-Am is reading the boards.....criticism is the only way you know that you need to improve.

[TNT]

Originally posted by mhill157
UPDATE: Someone is watching this forum guys. Got a call from the dealer that I bought the quad from and they wanted me to bring it in. Somebody at Can Am got in touch.

You should of seen the mechanics face when he saw the motor -priceless

Good for you. See you can get further with sugar rather than spice.

[craigmacphee]

That must be true TNT.

[mhill157]

I got the updated clutch cover and didn't notice any difference.:confused:

[craigmacphee]

Just an update.....We are 1/2 way there. My dealer called today and told me the back ordered cover came in today. I made plans to head down (2 hour drive) Thursday after my race tomorrow night. Well low and behold....he called back and told me the seals and gasket did not come in so he told me to hold off until he can get them in. Hopefully they extra stuff will be in the first of next week.

So....still holding out some hope! And......throwing some of TNT's sugar out there. :)

[ScottB125]

I ended up getting the Motoworks clutch for mine. It does have some extra holes drilled in it. I'll take some pics later this week and post them.

Good to hear things are moving on getting your bike running.

[TNT]

Before anyone goes and drills holes in thier stock basket put a pic out here so I can see where your drilling. That be great Scott so what all came w/the motoworks kit? Is it casted or machined or both?

[ScottB125]

Originally posted by TNT
Before anyone goes and drills holes in thier stock basket put a pic out here so I can see where your drilling. That be great Scott so what all came w/the motoworks kit? Is it casted or machined or both?

It has the three cast aluminum parts...basket and the two other pieces that fit down inside it...not sure what they are called. It looks to be made from billet aluminum with a camo green anodizing. Its a nice piece. Stock clutches/plates are used with it.

[Hmf Ds450]

ya same with me i have had tons of problems wit my ds and was thiniking of trading it but no other 450 rides like ours all my freinds have yfz 450 and i cant ride them too small and power way off the ds were supposed to be good quads casue they were like made in canada and germany but i guess not

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by mhill157
UPDATE: Someone is watching this forum guys. Got a call from the dealer that I bought the quad from and they wanted me to bring it in. Somebody at Can Am got in touch.

You should of seen the mechanics face when he saw the motor -priceless

Yes, there are Can Am reps that read these forums, Del Bohlman used to have several aliases he would use during the run up for the release of the DS...I personally caused the various big wigs all kinds of havoc with all my guesses as to what was to be released. They were all over me but they never could do anything because all my info was well thought out pontification. Hell I'm waiting for them to start telling me I am crazy for wanting a 250 2 stroke motor in the DS.....They are watching, demand better and they might listen.

TPR

[TNT]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Yes, there are Can Am reps that read these forums, Del Bohlman used to have several aliases he would use during the run up for the release of the DS...I personally caused the various big wigs all kinds of havoc with all my guesses as to what was to be released. They were all over me but they never could do anything because all my info was well thought out pontification. Hell I'm waiting for them to start telling me I am crazy for wanting a 250 2 stroke motor in the DS.....They are watching, demand better and they might listen.

TPR

I think they listen within reason to good ideas and I doubt you create any ‘havoc” since ideas are just ideas…..when you put pencil, paper, and cost to them in a design and production environment they can become jokes! You do hit on a good idea though that I believe will develop in time.

The aircraft industry I work in is going through a similar race (if you will) between two of the largest Aerospace giants in the world, Boeing and Air-Bus. Both are currently in a design phase on new commercial airlines, Boeing “Dreamliner” and Airbus A-350, similar to what you are referring to TPR, weight-to-power ratio battle, but more for powerful fuel efficient engines that drop the ticket price to the airline customer. Both have incorporated more composites than any other commercial aircraft of this size and magnitude in history to get the frame weight down, both have taken the bulk out of their engines for fuel efficiency and cheap power.

You can get a feel for what TPR is referring to if you remove the DS engine and pick up the quad with one hand; the bulk of the weight is in the engine. Can-am like Boeing and Air-Bus raised the bar on their light weight robust frame design, but I don’t believe that was a means to an end for the ATV industry.

Boeing really raised the bar and has an automated composite lay-up machine worth billions called “fiber-placement”, basically a machine (a big NC head) that composite winds the whole aircraft barrel(where you all sit) as it spins in a tool round and round by placing carbon fibers impregnated in resin vs. Airbus is reverting to an older “hand lay-up” process that takes more man hours to lay-up on a tool or mandrel and cost more. A lot of our ATV composite parts are laid up by hand man hours that are expensive so are the parts. Only option for quads today due to the geometry are hand lay-up’s and assemblies(fastening) of component parts, but I believe there will come a day that an OEM comes up with a design that allows for an automated one piece atv frame design by a composite fiber placement machine or robot. Most fasteners will be eliminated and there will be very little man hour’s if any to build a frame.

It’s just a matter of time before the ATV industry catches up with automated composite aircraft technology and the frames become lighter, stronger, along with motors that are light, more powerful. Can-am as usual will always be steps ahead of the competition since its sister company Bombardia produces some of the best business jets in the world. EG: The use of aircraft fasteners or hi-locks on the DS.

It’s a race TPR you are on the right track between weights, power, and of course cost.

BTW: I like the way you think outside of the box, good job!

[kellymi]

I would love to have a quad like your talking about.

On another note it looks like I will be missing yet another race this weekend. The dealer has the parts but what do you know they haven't been able to work on it yet!:mad: :mad:

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by kellymi
I would love to have a quad like your talking about.

On another note it looks like I will be missing yet another race this weekend. The dealer has the parts but what do you know they haven't been able to work on it yet!:mad: :mad:

I would be on the phone with the owner... but thats just me.

If its just the clutch update, it doesn't take more than a couple of hrs at most. Tell the owner you have a race this weekend, even if they get it done tomorrow, you can get on the track Sat or Sun.

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by TNT
I think they listen within reason to good ideas and I doubt you create any ‘havoc” since ideas are just ideas…..when you put pencil, paper, and cost to them in a design and production environment they can become jokes! You do hit on a good idea though that I believe will develop in time.

The aircraft industry I work in is going through a similar race (if you will) between two of the largest Aerospace giants in the world, Boeing and Air-Bus. Both are currently in a design phase on new commercial airlines, Boeing “Dreamliner” and Airbus A-350, similar to what you are referring to TPR, weight-to-power ratio battle, but more for powerful fuel efficient engines that drop the ticket price to the airline customer. Both have incorporated more composites than any other commercial aircraft of this size and magnitude in history to get the frame weight down, both have taken the bulk out of their engines for fuel efficiency and cheap power.

You can get a feel for what TPR is referring to if you remove the DS engine and pick up the quad with one hand; the bulk of the weight is in the engine. Can-am like Boeing and Air-Bus raised the bar on their light weight robust frame design, but I don’t believe that was a means to an end for the ATV industry.

Boeing really raised the bar and has an automated composite lay-up machine worth billions called “fiber-placement”, basically a machine (a big NC head) that composite winds the whole aircraft barrel(where you all sit) as it spins in a tool round and round by placing carbon fibers impregnated in resin vs. Airbus is reverting to an older “hand lay-up” process that takes more man hours to lay-up on a tool or mandrel and cost more. A lot of our ATV composite parts are laid up by hand man hours that are expensive so are the parts. Only option for quads today due to the geometry are hand lay-up’s and assemblies(fastening) of component parts, but I believe there will come a day that an OEM comes up with a design that allows for an automated one piece atv frame design by a composite fiber placement machine or robot. Most fasteners will be eliminated and there will be very little man hour’s if any to build a frame.

It’s just a matter of time before the ATV industry catches up with automated composite aircraft technology and the frames become lighter, stronger, along with motors that are light, more powerful. Can-am as usual will always be steps ahead of the competition since its sister company Bombardia produces some of the best business jets in the world. EG: The use of aircraft fasteners or hi-locks on the DS.

It’s a race TPR you are on the right track between weights, power, and of course cost.

BTW: I like the way you think outside of the box, good job!
Thanks....

I do however know that I had become a person of concern in the year prior to the release of the DS....I have heard it first hand.

TPR

[can-am67]

Ya well i thought i had bad luck this year. All i managed to do was blow my race motor up well the hole bottom end and broke the engine case some how. this happened early may and raced old yamaha for one moto and still could get engine case back ordered till the 22 on june.

So i had to do something. resulted in me buying another brand new bike just for the engine. Raced one moto one it and did great second moto was out front again, and then lost all power could not clear any jumps out of corners just basicly went for last place point at this time.

Turns out the intake cam in brand new motor bone stock. broke in half not big deal as the race head was going on for next race. But still the point is i still have not heard nottin about that cam being replaced

[craigmacphee]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck Can-Am67. That's got to be a major bummer. Do you have a shift light on your quad???

[kellymi]

Update on mine. I was able to race last weekend but it wasn't on my DS. :( Found out from the dealer that after they tore it apart finally on Friday and they found some seals that were shot of course. The interesting part was that they said they also found a bearing that was shot. A bearing! I didn't have to time to find out what bearing I plan on calling them tomorrow. I still don't see what bearing could have been bad. I can count on my hands how many times I've actually rode this quad.

For the race I jumped on my younger brothers IRS Outlaw and actually ended up having one of my best races of the year. Which might be because I've actually been trying to get in shape lately. They DS still handles a lot better.