Just brought a really rough 86 R home ..

[Saul76]

Just got it home long enough to fire it up and try it out.

It's, right now, stuck in second gear. But - it fired right up and runs, idles - but I dunno - doesn't feel like it has the 'power' it should have. (at least compared to my 300R ATC in second gear)

Maybe it's just cause the Turf Tamers break loose so easy. Or the fact it's been sitting so damn long.

Anyways, I plan to bring this back to life over time - should be a fun project. If any one has tech tips and tricks - holler at me!

[rigger]

post a picture so we can see what you got.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by rigger
post a picture so we can see what you got.

Ok - you asked for it! It is VERY rough.

I got an extra pipe with it - the silencer is a PT fat Boy - dunno what bran the actual pipe is - any markings on it that can/will identify it?

[Saul76]

Oh and the stuck gears - it will go from second down to neutral - but you have to hold your the lever down or it will just pop back up into second.

Thoughts?

[rigger]

Does not look that bad.

You may only have 2nd gear but at least you can ride yours. Mine still has a long ways to go. All I started with was a frame with a few 400ex parts on it. I would have loved to have had a complete machine to start with. That will make a great project bike.

The tranny problem is probably shifting forks. That would be where I would look first.

[1promodfan]

Man thats a nice find!! Nothing wrong with that find.

[Saul76]

So - would you guys say I made out ok for 300 bucks? (cdn currency) :devil:

Geez - I could ask a BILLION questions about this project - coming from an aircooled to the water cooled engine.

I'm interested in the 'extra' pipe I have - it has a PT Fat Boy silencer - and isn't a stocker - it's full of surface rust though - how can I identify it? Markings on the pipe?

Noobish question I guess - just that it's been a whirlwind day driving 5 hours to pick it up - then 5 hours back home - unload it and give it a run around the yard. I haven't had time to really 'look' at the bike yet. :p

Tomorrow I probably should put in a fresh plug, check coolants, remove and clean carb and see how she is jetted etc etc ... maybe slap the mystery pipe on and piss off the neighbours more. :D

I'll probably update this thread as the build progresses?

[jabbahoo]

Nice find! I love projects make sure to take pics of the process.

[Saleenster]

take a couple pics of the motor...the pipe on it appears stock

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Saleenster
take a couple pics of the motor...the pipe on it appears stock

The pipe currently installed on the bike is stock. It's the pipe laying on the garage floor I'm wondering about.

Will try to get pics sometime today maybe.

[Saul76]

Well - lol - after actually LOOKING at the 'mystery' pipe under some light of day I know what it is - it's stamped 'Paul Turner 89 TRX Race'

good pipe? much better then the stocker I'd imagine?

[Saul76]

Couple questions guys -

1. Is there any way to really 'restore' a corroded pipe? I was just gunna clean the surface rust off and paint it black - but then I saw some 'shine' coming through - I was surprised. Now I'd like to fully restore the pipe back to a nice shine.

2. when you bought a paul turner pipe did you usually get a sticker with it saying 'paul tuner race engines' ? Cause I was looking at the stickers on the bike and one of those are on it along with a Hinson, barnett, v-force, OMF and K&N.

3. The read skid plate is OMF - did that come as standard equipment or is it aftermarket?

4. What plug you all running? I run ngk br9es 'r' in the 300R - I pulled this one and it was a br9eya ?! br9es ok to run?

[1promodfan]

There's nothing wrong with a Paul Turner pipe....IMO they have one of the best sounds out there. You could have it sand/media blasted and re-chromed. I have seen some Paul Turner stickers, but they are hard to find...(I think).

A br9es plug should be fine or a br8es. I want to say that rear skid plate is probably aftermarket.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 1promodfan
There's nothing wrong with a Paul Turner pipe....IMO they have one of the best sounds out there. You could have it sand/media blasted and re-chromed.

Well - I have no place around here to have it re-chromed - so I'm soaking it in some rust remover liquid - and then taking the wire wheel to it in between 30 minute sessions. It's taking the rust off and bringing out the metal - hopefully once all is off I can take a powerball and some metal polish and get it shinier.



I have seen some Paul Turner stickers, but they are hard to find...(I think).

I'm just wondering if the PT sticker on my airbox lid came with the PT Pipe? I'm pretty confident the engine doesn't have any PT work done to it. I guess.


A br9es plug should be fine or a br8es. I want to say that rear skid plate is probably aftermarket.

Cool cool. Thanks.

[Saul76]

Uh ... this Paul Turner pipe seems like a handfull to install. Do I need to move or remove something to do the install?

My hang up is getting the header section onto the engine - I'm guessing it has to somehow go through the frame.

[86 Quad R]

from my experience. you may or may not need to remove the a-arm on that side. i cant be sure tho.

[Fear250r]

I usually just point the handlebars to the left and you can slide it up there, it's a tight fit, but she should make it.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
from my experience. you may or may not need to remove the a-arm on that side. i cant be sure tho.

Yeah - I had kinda figured the a-arm would need to come off. Oh well - gives me an excuse to remove both of them now to really clean the surface rust off and re-paint.

Now - before I go tearing into the a-arms - any tips or things I should be aware of before removing?

[JTRtrx250r]

cant ya just take the tie-rod end off instead of the whole aarm?

forget, been awhile

[fulltiltrider]

That pipe is a good pipe, If you have the header split into its 2 pieces, put the header pipe on first leave it connected by the springs then reseal the expansion chamber to it with some hi-temp rtv. Shouldnt have to take anything apart to install.

Looks like a great find, your tranny issue is probably in the linkage behind the clutch basket that rides on the shift drum, hopefully, if not it could be a shift fork.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by fulltiltrider
That pipe is a good pipe, If you have the header split into its 2 pieces, put the header pipe on first leave it connected by the springs then reseal the expansion chamber to it with some hi-temp rtv. Shouldnt have to take anything apart to install.

Ok - thanks. I'll try and see if I can fit it in there somehow tomorrow. I do have to remove the a-arms eventually to get the nasty surface rust off them anyhow.


Looks like a great find, your tranny issue is probably in the linkage behind the clutch basket that rides on the shift drum, hopefully, if not it could be a shift fork.

I just hope to god I don't have to split the cases. :(

I wen't ahead and took the side case off tonight to look around and get 'started' with whatever needs to be done ... and, even though I couldn't visibly find the 'problem' - I did find something that made me happy - a Hinson clutch basket! And it is LIKE NEW condition. I think the springs and plates are Barnett.

It looks like they were just installed.

I'll post some pics - maybe one of you guys will see something I missed or point me where to start looking?

Thanks in advance guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2022.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2023.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2024.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2025.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2026.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2027.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2029.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2030.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2031.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2032.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2034.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2035.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2036.jpg

[Honda 250r 001]

lol, theres no doubt your gonna have to split the cases, i could prolly find the problem for you if i could see the motor, im guessing its in the componets inside the shifting arm. Not to complicated unless you have never seen it apart before.


and hey. i see you get quad magazine! lol do you happen to have the first 10 issues of quad? Im looking for them if you have em.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
[B]lol, theres no doubt your gonna have to split the cases,

thats the most depressing thing I've heard/read all day. :(

[Honda 250r 001]

man! have you ever splitted the cases on a 250r? Its easy, you can do it easily. You will learn a lot and you can check for bad bearings and cracks and stuff that might completely runin the motor or ruin your day at the dunes. We will help ya get it done.

and well to be honest i may have said that too soon. Try taking the front sprocket off and shifting with your hand and seeing whats wrong, maybe there was a bunch of metal stuck in the shifter componets making it not work correctly. i would still suggest a splitting though.
What did the oil look like?

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
man! have you ever splitted the cases on a 250r? Its easy, you can do it easily. You will learn a lot and you can check for bad bearings and cracks and stuff that might completely runin the motor or ruin your day at the dunes. We will help ya get it done.

Nope - never split cases before. Really didn't wanna have too.


and well to be honest i may have said that too soon. Try taking the front sprocket off and shifting with your hand and seeing whats wrong, maybe there was a bunch of metal stuck in the shifter componets making it not work correctly. i would still suggest a splitting though.
What did the oil look like?

I'll try that tomorrow.

The oil was a lil 'milky' looking - I'm guessing it hadn't been changed in a while and the bike has been 'sitting' since forever.

[fulltiltrider]

That oil looks really milky, most of the time people say milky its just wear from the plates, that looks like water for sure. Might want to check the water pump seals. I wish I knew how to use photoshop lol, the arm that rides on the drum behind the retainer plate, make sure it is properly assembled. There is a collar were the bolt goes through the arm, if its not right the wheel on the end wont ride on the correct spot of the drum not allowing you to shift. It looks correct to me in the picture but its worth a shot. If you do have to split the cases its really not that big of a deal, download a manual, you may need a case splitter, a crank puller, a flywheel puller, a impact wrench, and a penny lol. The splitter and the pullers you can get from rmatv for around 125 bucks and is money well spent in the long run. If you have a harbor frieght store near by you may want to invest in a blind hole bearing puller as well. If you are going to split the cases you might as well replace the bearings as a good investment, at least change the crank bearings for sure. If you need any help feel free to pm me. I'll give you my # and will help with anything I can. Good luck

[Saul76]

anything in these areas I should look at?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/trxtranny.jpg

[rigger]

Don't worry about splitting the case. I just split mine to go through the motor and clean everything up really good. Pressed in some new crank bearings.

If you do not find a problem, then split them so you can see what you really have.

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by Saul76
anything in these areas I should look at?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/trxtranny.jpg

Everything there looks fine, its the other arm to right that I am speaking of.

You dont need a press to do bearings, just put them in the freezer for 24hrs and heat up the cases with a heat gun a oven, hell even a good hairdryer will work as long as you leave the bearings in the freezer for a full day. They should drop right in, may have to give them a couple light taps with a hammer and a socket the same size as the outer race.

[croat1]

noticed in the pics that you are missing the lower motor mount bolt. also looks like the mount is bent? would not run the bike without that bolted in.

[Saul76]

Just wanna clarify that the oil there in the base is not as 'white' as these pics make them seem - it's the flash.

Soon heading back out to tinker around.

[Saul76]

engine is out and on the workbench now. That's it for today I guess. Need to get out there and clean a better area to work.

[zedicus00]

theres actually a tool called a "case splitter" ???

there is a gasket between the cases that you will need, ive done it with gasket RTV in a pinch but if yur ordering stuff just get the new gasket.

for splitting the cases a rubber mallet and those good quality 1" inch paint scrapers work good. plastic shims, teflon door stop, anything with a good edge on it and either be carefull or use something that is not metal. the cases are pretty durable though so dont be afraid of em.

[kouki]

There is a gasket between the case halves. You will need that. If the cases have been apart fairly recently, you can split them with common tools if you are GENTLE! You don't want to gouge up the mating surfaces though or you will leak. If they haven't been apart for a while it may be tough. I'd reccomend getting a manual so you know where all the bolts are. There are a couple that are kinda hidden. Splitting the cases isn't that bad if you have any mechanical knowledge. Just follow the manual. You will need a flywheel puller. You can get those for about $10. Before you order parts, you may want to pull the jug and check the rings. How was the compression? While you have it apart might as well spend the extra $30 on rings, as long as the bore is still in spec.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by kouki
[B]There is a gasket between the case halves. You will need that.
[/quoted]

Noted.


[quote]If the cases have been apart fairly recently, you can split them with common tools if you are GENTLE! You don't want to gouge up the mating surfaces though or you will leak. If they haven't been apart for a while it may be tough.

I don't think the engine has ever been split. I'm not 100% sure but I do know it hasn't been apart in the last decade.



I'd reccomend getting a manual so you know where all the bolts are. There are a couple that are kinda hidden. Splitting the cases isn't that bad if you have any mechanical knowledge. Just follow the manual.


I've got a manual in .pdf format I've been studying last few days but I'm gunna get myself a hardcopy now to keep in the shed.

I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, an engine expert of any kid - but I have spent many many hours building my 300R ATC.

I've done pretty much everything I could with these 2-strokes besides splitting cases and getting deep into the crankcase.

I guess this will be a learning experience.



You will need a flywheel puller. You can get those for about $10.

This isn't the same as a crankcase puller/splitter tool?

Ebay links maybe - if you have them? Cause here in the boonies I aint gunna be able to go to a store and buy one.



Before you order parts, you may want to pull the jug and check the rings. How was the compression? While you have it apart might as well spend the extra $30 on rings, as long as the bore is still in spec.

About 195lbs of compression when I checked. Cold, fuel off, throttle pinned.

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by Saul76
I don't think the engine has ever been split. I'm not 100% sure but I do know it hasn't been apart in the last decade.





I've got a manual in .pdf format I've been studying last few days but I'm gunna get myself a hardcopy now to keep in the shed.

I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, an engine expert of any kid - but I have spent many many hours building my 300R ATC.

I've done pretty much everything I could with these 2-strokes besides splitting cases and getting deep into the crankcase.

I guess this will be a learning experience.




This isn't the same as a crankcase puller/splitter tool?

Ebay links maybe - if you have them? Cause here in the boonies I aint gunna be able to go to a store and buy one.




About 195lbs of compression when I checked. Cold, fuel off, throttle pinned.


You usually dont need a case splitter but its ALOT easier and safer to use one, especially being your first time. Sometimes those cases can be stubborn especially if they havnt been split in a long time or someone used sealent on them, I'd like to know more about the engine before you go tearing it down. At 195lbs of compression, it sounds like you have a good top end, but at that cranking pressure you will be looking at running at least av fuel or something equivilent of 100 octane or higher. Do a squish test before you take the topend off. Use a piece of solder, stick it in the spark plug hole parallel to the wrist pin up against the cylinder wall, spin the engine over and measure the very end. You are looking for .035-.040 ideally.

You know, this machine sounds better and better everytime, hell with the vf reed cage(which looks to be the better vf2 series) and the pipe......you basically got the rest for free lol.

[kouki]

The flywheel puller is not the same as the case splitter.

http://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/flywheel-puller_medium079330010000-01_b3bb.jpg

[Saul76]

Originally posted by fulltiltrider


You know, this machine sounds better and better everytime, hell with the vf reed cage(which looks to be the better vf2 series) and the pipe......you basically got the rest for free lol.

I hear you. I'm sure it will still be a huge money pit though. :D

The clutch stuff - Hinson basket, barnett plates springs - doesn't seem to be cheap gear either.

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by Saul76


The clutch stuff - Hinson basket, barnett plates springs - doesn't seem to be cheap gear either.


I forgot about those. Damn you lol. Why cant I find deals like that hahaha.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by fulltiltrider
I forgot about those. Damn you lol. Why cant I find deals like that hahaha.

well - the 'special' stuff seems to end there though. everything else looks stock to my untrained eye. Cept K&N airfilter.

A-Arms, shocks, hubs, axle etc etc - and the plastics are shot (wanted full bore anyways!)

Gotta ask - the 86 & 87 (still not sure which I have yet) - did they come with a black frame or a red frame?

And what color was the swingarm stock? Mine is black with an OMF skidplate.

[kouki]

86-87 swinger is gold 88-89 is silver

[Saul76]

So mine has either been painted, or isnt stock. hmmmm

whoever painted it, frame and swinger, did a hell of a job - it held up "ok" when everything else rusted from being left out doors.

It will need to be stripped to the bare frame for a repaint eventually, but for now I wanna get this thing up and running - then get a lil crazy with the rebuild.

[rustyATV]

Here are the tools you should use. I went years working on my quad without them because I didn't want to spend the money, but when I finally did, I felt totally stupid for not doing so earlier. Breaking down and reassembling my engines is so easy now it's retarded.

Case Splitter - $60
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=140&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&webCatId=22&prodFamilyId=17167

Clutch Holder - $16
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=140&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&webCatId=22&prodFamilyId=18289

Crank Puller/Installer - $60
(takes a little creativity to use it, but it's a snap once you do)
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=140&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&webCatId=22&prodFamilyId=17166

Quit whining, get these tools along with the flywheel tool, and show that b!tch who's boss!

[Saul76]

Originally posted by rustyATV
Here are the tools you should use. I went years working on my quad without them because I didn't want to spend the money, but when I finally did, I felt totally stupid for not doing so earlier. Breaking down and reassembling my engines is so easy now it's retarded.

Case Splitter - $60
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=140&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&webCatId=22&prodFamilyId=17167

Clutch Holder - $16
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=140&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&webCatId=22&prodFamilyId=18289

Crank Puller/Installer - $60
(takes a little creativity to use it, but it's a snap once you do)
http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=140&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&webCatId=22&prodFamilyId=17166

Quit whining, get these tools along with the flywheel tool, and show that b!tch who's boss!

Good advice, great links. Thanks.

Took the roller out of the garage and started degreasing her. What a mess she was in - I'm about 75% done cleaning it. Starting to find very minor spots of surface rust in just a couple places on the frame. Think I might just clean these areas up and re-spray with a rattle can. Very small areas need touch up. I don't plan to repaint frame this year anyways.

One concern that I only noticed as it got dark and will investigate more tomorrow was on the rear axle at the locknut - it looks 'broken' in that area. I dunno how to explain it - but - I can grab the axle nut and 'pull it away' slightly from the brake disc. :confused:

Other then that I'm not seeing any glaring issues - obviously I'll be replacing the chain and sprockets, service the K&N - but I think once I fix the tranny issue this thing is ready to hop on and ride.

A rear caliper is also needed.

[Honda 250r 001]

you just need to tighten up the axle nut, the are left hand threads i believe so be sure to go the correct way. i still think you got a hell of a fun 250r for 300 bucks.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
you just need to tighten up the axle nut, the are left hand threads i believe so be sure to go the correct way. i still think you got a hell of a fun 250r for 300 bucks.

I hope the fun can start soon!

[Saul76]

Not a whole lot to report - have the head off, jug off, piston out.

The clutch side is taken apart and have the cover off the stator side - need to rig some 'holder' type tool so I can get the nut off my self.

Can't do much more then until I get some tools show up (case splitter, flywheel puller, crank, clutch holder)

Noticed some 'fluid' once I removed the stator side case - really thin like water and white-ish in color, almost clear like water. Thats a sign of what?

Adding everything up - by the time I buy all the tools and whatever parts are broken down in the tranny - I could almost just buy a full bottom end and be done with it. BUT - then I guess I wouldn't have the experience. LOL

[Honda 250r 001]

dont worry man, ill give you a helluva good deal on the parts you need so you will come out on top.

And i believe thats tranny oil that came in through the counterbalencer, timing plate holder. There is a o ring inside there that aparently commonly leaks.

Do you have an impact wrench? I use that to take the flywheel, clutch inner hub nut off. Makes things a lot easier. Do you have gaskets for it yet? might want to order them while your waiting on other parts.


and another thing, the honda manual reccommends you leave the tranny and crank in the left crankcase and lift the right case off the whole assembly. But i and a lot of other people, prefer to leave everything in the right case, and lift the left side case off the whole assembly, makes everything a whole lot easier.

Also when installing crank seals, which you should i would say, dont tap them in to far, only far enough so that the seal good against the crank and the race on the crankcase. If you fail to do this, you will seize a crank bearing due to not being able to get oil down to it.

I hope this helps and doesnt confuse you.

[rigger]

I just noticed on page 3, the picture you have with circled items on it, the clutch push rod looks like it is missing the end of it.

My 86' bottom end has a mushroom looking end on it that disingages the clutch.

Just thought I would mention it. Might be part of the shifting problem if the clutch can not disingage.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
dont worry man, ill give you a helluva good deal on the parts you need so you will come out on top.

Nice!


And i believe thats tranny oil that came in through the counterbalencer, timing plate holder. There is a o ring inside there that aparently commonly leaks.

Well that o-ring come with a complete gasket set?


Do you have an impact wrench? I use that to take the flywheel, clutch inner hub nut off. Makes things a lot easier.

Doh! Why didn't I think of that?! I have an impact wrench - it's corded and not air but it *might* do the trick.



Do you have gaskets for it yet? might want to order them while your waiting on other parts.

Needs to be ordered tomorrow.



and another thing, the honda manual reccommends you leave the tranny and crank in the left crankcase and lift the right case off the whole assembly. But i and a lot of other people, prefer to leave everything in the right case, and lift the left side case off the whole assembly, makes everything a whole lot easier.

Ok - just to be clear once and for all ... right and left on the engine as I'm looking at the front or back of the engine? I know - stupid question. But, say the front sprocket/altenator - would that side be the right side of the engine?


Also when installing crank seals, which you should i would say, dont tap them in to far, only far enough so that the seal good against the crank and the race on the crankcase. If you fail to do this, you will seize a crank bearing due to not being able to get oil down to it.

I hope this helps and doesnt confuse you.

Well, I was hoping I could get away without installing new crank bearing and seals - but - I guess I have to remove the crank anyways? So might as well.

Looking through the manual it seems I wouldn't have to remove the crank to get at the tranny parts - but - now I'm not to sure.

And geez - I feel like such a noob again. I've taken my engines down, installed pistons, jetted my carbs, changed front ends, rear ends, bearings etc etc all on my 82 300R three wheeler - but now tackling this bottom end makes me feel like I'm right back at square one.

Sorry if some of the stuff I'm writing seems very, VERY, noobish - I just really wanna do things right the first time, ya know?

Peace guys - you all seem like a GREAT bunch of people eager to help a new guy out.

250R TRX owners remind me a LOT of our lil Aircooled R group - right there to help fellow owners out. I appreciate that.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by rigger
I just noticed on page 3, the picture you have with circled items on it, the clutch push rod looks like it is missing the end of it.

My 86' bottom end has a mushroom looking end on it that disingages the clutch.

Just thought I would mention it. Might be part of the shifting problem if the clutch can not disingage.

You mean the clutch lifter rod, lifter and steel ball bearing inside?

[05LSR250R]

While ya got the clutch cover off you should install the 89 clutch update! Worth it!

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 05LSR250R
While ya got the clutch cover off you should install the 89 clutch update! Worth it!

More info please? I know nothing about any of the popular mods you all are doing/have done to your liquid cooled R's.

I was reading about putting a 400ex fiber in place of one of the regular fibers in the middle to eliminate slipping.

[Honda 250r 001]

The o ring you need comes with a complete gasket kit.

The the crank doesnt have to come completely out to get to the tranny, its sort of confusing. When you split the cases, the front of the motor will have the crank in it, and the crank will stay in one side of the case halves when you pull the left side off. The tranny will stay for sure in the right side if you set that side down flat on a table so you have gravity on your side.

The left side of the motor is the stator side and the right side is the clutch side, as if you were sitting on the quad.

Its not to late to send it to someone to have it fixed. I could prolly do it for you for next to nothing but i dont know if you trust my mechanic skills or not. (Ill be honest with you, im only 15 years of age.)

have any more questions ill be here.

Things you should remove to split the cases, starting with a bottom end only...
Counterbalencer, Crank drive gears, Clutch basket, clutch inner hub, clutch pressure plate, and the shift arm.

On the other side all you need to remove is the flywheel and stator.

Then you can start putting your spitter on. Set the motor on the right side case half and use your splitter to remove the left case. Dont force anything, i never have even needed to use a splitter just a rubber mallet so i would try to tap it apart first see if its gonna come easy. Once you pull the left case off watch for any spacers or washers on the bearings and catch them when they fall. If the crank comes out in the left side case dont let it slip out of the bearing and fall.

[Saul76]

Ugh. Here is where I am today ...

So - I've got everything out of the clutch side of the engine. But over on the other side I'm only as far as removing the 'nut' that holds the 'rotor' in place ... now how do I get this off to get to the stator? :confused:

Buy more tools?

And I was planning on removing the A-Arms to clean up and repaint but the manual calls for a 'ball joint remover' before I can remove them?! Seriously?

[Honda 250r 001]

you dont need a ball joint remover, you will be fine getting the a arms out, the problem is getting the ball joints out of the spindles, which you can get them out with a hammer.

That impact wrench didnt work? Man i have never used anything but an impact, your gonna have to find some way to hold the flywheel. Maybe you should have left the top end on so the compression would have held the flywheel still long enough to get the nut loose.

TRy to get a filter tool and put the around the flywheel, and get a friend to try to get the nut off while you hold the flywheel.

[86 Quad R]

to get the flywheel off you need a Puller (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0026/)

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
you dont need a ball joint remover, you will be fine getting the a arms out, the problem is getting the ball joints out of the spindles, which you can get them out with a hammer.

So I can 'remove' the a-arms, without damaging the ball joints and whatnot by just removing the nuts and bolts and taking them off, correct?

I just wanna get them off to clean and re-paint them.


That impact wrench didnt work? Man i have never used anything but an impact, your gonna have to find some way to hold the flywheel. Maybe you should have left the top end on so the compression would have held the flywheel still long enough to get the nut loose.

TRy to get a filter tool and put the around the flywheel, and get a friend to try to get the nut off while you hold the flywheel.

I was able to get the nut off with an impact wrench just fine ... but the rotor isn't budging .... maybe I need to tap it a little to get it to come free?

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
to get the flywheel off you need a Puller (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0026/)

Yeah - I kinda figured it wouldn't be as easy as removing that nut and pulling it all out.

Another tool to add to the list I guess.

[Honda 250r 001]

i have always just used a regular puller, you might ruin your flywheel if its an older one (85 atc) but if its a trx you will prolly be ok, i have removed mine several times and its still true, but i used a older one once and ruined it the next time i took it off. but put a regular puller on it and put a fair ammount of pressure and get a hammer and tap on it, most of the time that works. Just be very very careful.

[86 Quad R]

do NOT use a regular puller on these flywheels. i repeat............. do NOT!!!

Honda 250r 001 juss because you've tried it once or twice and it worked for you doesnt make it ok. that's poor advice. period.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
do NOT use a regular puller on these flywheels. i repeat............. do NOT!!!

Honda 250r 001 juss because you've tried it once or twice and it worked for you doesnt make it ok. that's poor advice. period.

ok maybe i was unclear about this...

i told him to just put pressure on the flywheel, and see if he can tap it off with a hammer, not torque it down with a impact. You have to be careful yes, but it can easily be done if the flywheel is not welded on the crank.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
i told him to just put pressure on the flywheel, and see if he can tap it off with a hammer.

even at that. you are hitting the end of the crank wiff a hammer. with things getting harder en harder to get for these quads i opt to protect those parts i do have and use the right tool for the job. whats 15.00 for the RIGHT puller? ;)

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
whats 15.00 for the RIGHT puller? ;)

Link to correct puller on rmatv.com?

It's just as well I buy every freaking tool I need to do this job all at once. LOL

while I'm in there I've decided to install new crank bearings too. I figure do the bottom end right and I *might* only need to do it once every couple years. lol

Guys - I appreciate all of your help!

[86 Quad R]

the puller i posted is directly from motion pro.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
even at that. you are hitting the end of the crank wiff a hammer. with things getting harder en harder to get for these quads i opt to protect those parts i do have and use the right tool for the job. whats 15.00 for the RIGHT puller? ;)

yep your right, but if your in a pinch i still consider it an option.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
the puller i posted is directly from motion pro.

I know and thanks for linking it - I am trying to buy everything from rmatv all in one shot though.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Saul76
I know and thanks for linking it - I am trying to buy everything from rmatv all in one shot though.


ahhhhhhhh me see now. cant blame ya there.

goed luck with your build. :cool:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
ahhhhhhhh me see now. cant blame ya there.

goed luck with your build. :cool:

Thanks. I'll probably need all the luck I can muster up. Haha!

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
even at that. you are hitting the end of the crank wiff a hammer. with things getting harder en harder to get for these quads i opt to protect those parts i do have and use the right tool for the job. whats 15.00 for the RIGHT puller? ;)


Take this mans advise. The correct tools are worth their weight in gold. Plus, they really arent that expensive.

[Saul76]

So does anyone know the 'exact' rotor/flywheel puller I need from rmatv? cause I try to put my 86 trx in the search and all they have is a trx90?!

Meh, anyways .. this is getting more frustrating by the minute .... who, I mean who in their right friggin minds puts a 250R TRX outside and LEAVES it there abandoned, open to the elements (we get heavy snow ridden winters!) for almost 5 years?!

I went out then to give removing the upper a-arms a shot and one bolt/nut combo is locked in there holding on for dear life! To the point where I starting rounding off the nut trying to remove it. So I stopped and sprayed it with even MORE 'liquid wrench' and I guess I'll give it a go again tomorrow - or the next day - or the next day ... this bike is really frustrating me. lol.

Actually, it isn't the bikes fault - it's the negligence of it's previous owner. :mad:

And, staying with the a-arms - when I remove them do I remove them ball joint and all (ie:remove the nut with the cotter pin that connects them to the spindle) or do I unscrew the nut forward of the camber set collars and remove them from there?

I swear - if I can ever get this thing taken full apart and rebuilt the way I like having it rebuilt it won't sit neglected like this ever again!

[fulltiltrider]

patients is key, I know how you feel. I got mine out of some kids back yard with the engine full of water!!! That was 11yrs ago. Its come a long way since then.

Here is a link to the flywheel puller you need. It says for a banshee but is the same size for a 250r and alot of other 2 strokes

http://www.rockymountainatv.com/vehicleSelectProd.do#vehicleSelect

Cant get the link to work, just look up a puller for a banshee, its a 27mm.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by fulltiltrider
patients is key, I know how you feel. I got mine out of some kids back yard with the engine full of water!!! That was 11yrs ago. Its come a long way since then.

Good advice. I'm usually pretty patient - last couple days have been a little 'trying' - not so much bike related. Meh


Here is a link to the flywheel puller you need. It says for a banshee but is the same size for a 250r and alot of other 2 strokes

http://www.rockymountainatv.com/vehicleSelectProd.do#vehicleSelect

Cant get the link to work, just look up a puller for a banshee, its a 27mm.

Ok - found one for Banshee 27MM. Any one for a Banshee will work, just has to be 27MM right?

http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=203&navTitle=Engine&webCatId=17&prodFamilyId=17329#vehicleSelect

[Saul76]

Moving ahead a little! Just ordered the complete engine gasket kit (comes with 3 extra base gaskets) and main crank bearings and seals.

Tomorrow I'll order the needed tools, crankcase splitter, crankshaft puller & flywheel/rotor puller ... am I forgetting anything?! :confused:

[Saul76]

Ok then - so I decided instead of sitting on my hands while I wait for parts and tools I'd go and tackle something that I could .... the A-Arms.

They have some surface rust and really could use some freshening up - so I got as far as getting the upper a-arm unbolted from the frame, then let go the castle nut at the bottom of the ball joint - but from there I'm lost - do I whack at the a-arm with a hammer to 'pop' it free of the spindle? Will this ruin the ball joint?

and then once I re-install how will the ball joint go back in place?

Gimme some advice on removing and re-installing a-arms guys - as much detail as possible please.

The manual calls for a ball joint tool?

As it looks now, I'll have to end up painting these while still attached to the spindle, and we all know how ugly that will look. :(

[86 Quad R]

ideally you'd want to use the ball joint tool but they can be removed easily by other means........


with the a-arms attached to the frame and shock still in place, loosen the castle nuts about 1/2 and leave them on(this protects the threads in the event you have a wild swing lol) with a fare amount of pressure, pull up on the upper a-arm (as if your trying to pull it from the spindle) with the spindle turned so that the "BROADEST" part of the spindle is exsposed and "firmly" whack the spindle where the ball joint penetrates. this will jar things enough that the ball joint will seperate from the spindle.:cool:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
ideally you'd want to use the ball joint tool but they can be removed easily by other means........


with the a-arms attached to the frame and shock still in place, loosen the castle nuts about 1/2 and leave them on(this protects the threads in the event you have a wild swing lol) with a fare amount of pressure, pull up on the upper a-arm (as if your trying to pull it from the spindle) with the spindle turned so that the "BROADEST" part of the spindle is exsposed and "firmly" whack the spindle where the ball joint penetrates. this will jar things enough that the ball joint will seperate from the spindle.:cool:

Ok - I'll probably try that.

What about when it's time to reinstall them?!

[86 Quad R]

thats the easy part. juss slip the ball joints back in the sockets and hold them firm in place and tighten the nuts. :D

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Saul76
Ok - I'll probably try that.

What about when it's time to reinstall them?!

the ball joints have a taper on them and so do the spindles, so if you get them super super tight, they can get stuck together. once you get them apart and see how they work, you will under stand em better.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
thats the easy part. juss slip the ball joints back in the sockets and hold them firm in place and tighten the nuts. :D

and you've done this before - both the un-install and re-install? :)

anyone else do it this way? :confused:

[86 Quad R]

many a times. as Honda 250r 001 stated. once you've gotten them apart, you'll better understand whats going on.
;)

[Saul76]

I dunno what I'm doing wrong - lol - but those A-Arms won't separate from the spindle at all. :mad:

I gotta take a better look this evening and see if I can jury rig a c-clamp on there somewhere and 'press' them out?

[RobRacing]

The method stated before is correct. If you are having touble get some PB blaster or other penetrating lubricant and spray it into the spot where the ball joint comes through the spindle. Also try heating up the outside of the spindle with a torch. The a-arms have probably never been removed so it may take some special words and a beer to get them free:D

[Saul76]

Originally posted by RobRacing
The method stated before is correct. If you are having touble get some PB blaster or other penetrating lubricant and spray it into the spot where the ball joint comes through the spindle. Also try heating up the outside of the spindle with a torch. The a-arms have probably never been removed so it may take some special words and a beer to get them free:D

Yeah - I dont think much of anything was ever removed from this quad. Not in the last decade anyways. :rolleyes:

Looking at the swingarm and I'm SCARED to death to start having to work on it cause the bolts back there for adjustment have rusted - I'm sure they will just strip out if I put an allen/hex wrench in there to adjust them. :grr:

I can only imagine how seized the pivot bolt is. :p

And the locknut on the axle - looks like the threaded part the nut threads onto has broken/separated from the area by the brake rotor!

I need to get some pics for you guys to look at as you guys would know more then me about this platform.

On the upside - all my tools are ordered and on their way to rip apart the tranny/engine cases - I also have new main crank bearings and seals on the way too.

I WILL see this build through to the end. Even if it kills me! :devil:

[rustyATV]

For separating the ball joints from the spindle, I use a couple of bolts in a long nut. The bolts thread into the nut enough to fit between the ball joints, I loosen one of the castle nuts (don't remove), then back on of the bolts from the nut until the ball joint pops out. After that I loosen the other ball joint and continue until that pops.

I don't have time to post pictures because I'm heading out this weekend, but if you're still having problems when I get back I'll see what I can dig up.

[jabbahoo]

Saul76 i seen you said you had a manual in PDF format can you send that to me via email or tell me where you got it? I been looking with no free luck!

[Saul76]

Ok - with some penetrating lube, some heat, a big hammer and a couple beer - I was able to coax the ball joints free from the spindles.

Got both a-arms off one side of the TRX but I'm still hung up on two, ready to round off on me, nuts on the other side. I have them soaking in penetrating oil now - will tackle them again tomorrow.

jabbahoo - http://www.*********.net/86-89-TRX250R-svc.pdf

[rigger]

Well if everything is that rusted up, at least you do not have to worry about things vibrating loose.

But Something like PB Blaster on that stuff works great. Try to work it loose a little, hit it with some PB and walk away. Let it soak over night and try to work it loose again the next day. PB works better the longer it sits.

A little heat can do a lot of good too. I have gotten more stuck bolts out with some heat than anything else.

[rigger]

Oh and how did I forget,

drink Beer. It helps a lot. :)

[Saul76]

Originally posted by rigger
Oh and how did I forget,

drink Beer. It helps a lot. :)

quoted for truth!

I really didn't do much different then earlier either - just drank a couple beer. I'm guessing the beer relaxed me enough to 'hit harder' with the hammer.

They came out super easy once I got over the fear of giving the spindles a nice 'thwack' lol

[jabbahoo]

Saul it won't let me go there. Says Address Not Found.

Maybe you can pm me the address see if that works.

[jabbahoo]

I found it thanks saul76

[Saul76]

Originally posted by jabbahoo
I found it thanks saul76

I'm glad you found it. :)

[Saul76]

Dunno what everyones opinions are on this - but - trying to keep this build within a 'budget' for now and still add some performance (engine and suspension wise) I was thinking about adding a set of stock 400ex front shocks.

Are they much of an upgrade over the 20+ year old R shocks or not?

[Saul76]

No replies on 400ex shocks?

Ok - next question! With the A-Arms off and in primer and still waiting for engine parts/tools to arrive I got bored and needed something to do - so I decided to tackle the front brake system.

(calipers left outdoors in the elements for years don't age well)

Anyways, got them broken down as per manual, cleaned the brake pad slider pins up real nice and put some silicone grease on there - pads move on the pins like butter now - before you couldn't hardly move them with your hands.

Anyways, now I'm 'stuck' on the pistons which are 'stuck' - and boy are they ever stuck.

I tried to use compressed air to 'blow them out' as per manual - but that didn't work. They are probably seized in there really nice and I'd like to get em out, clean them up and the inside of the caliper and I think the brakes will work as good as new.

Any tips or tricks for removing the pistons?

I was thinking maybe hook them up to the brake system and use the pressure from the brake fluid to 'pop' them out maybe?

[rigger]

I don't see why that would not work. I was going to do the same thing on a rear caliper that I was working on today but then I just said to heck with that and picked another one that I had.

I do not see why a set of 400EX shocks would not ride just fine on it for now. I had a set on the front of my project R but I never rode on them so I can't say much for the ride. They will bolt right up just fine. I have seen others use them before and you can get a set pretty cheap off of ebay.

[Saul76]

Got the pistons out by forcing them out with grease! Worked like a charm.

But I was surprised that the pistons didn't seem chewed up at all. They looked great.

Now I'll just clean everything up and reinstall em. I'm pretty sure now the big problem was the pin the brake pads slide on.

btw - my pistons are a hard black plastic material? I guess this is just an outer coating?

[thedeatons]

Important tools that have not yet been mentioned:

MAPP Gas Torch
Gigantic Sand-Filled Rubber Mallet
Air Impact Gun with 100psi.

The torch heats the metal helping it to become "unstuck". The mallet further assists in getting the hardware "unstuck". The impact is the ONLY tool I use on rusted/partially seized hardware. A standard ratchet/socket combination will seize hardware up quite easily, but an impact will drive it right off, hurting nothing (usually).

Make sure you do something like I mentioned for the swingarm hardware.

James

[RyanWsly]

I don't quite understand the shifting problem, you just go into #2 and after that no movement in the shifter, or movement in shifter and shift drum with no change in gear? That gray looking goo you've got there looks like maybe fuel from the crankcase, looks gray not white to me, stink like gas possibly? Anyhow make sure you keep track of the shims when you take it apart for the different gears and shafts it sucks trying to sort them out in a pile........... you can make the tool to pull the cases apart it's not real complicated, or just pry lightly between the crank and case and hammer lightly on the crankshaft with a soft hammer, main bearing is what gets stuck, my 86ATC popped right apart, never been apart in its life, did it last winter, just don't pry where there is a sealing surface, usually one side or the other will decide to move as long as you found all the bolts, the key is make sure you got all the bolts or you will destroy it even if you use the tool. 400ex shocks suck, longer with non progressive spring, basicly same shock you've got worse spring and will raise your ride height in the front, but if you want I know someone who will trade you so his 400ex will handle better. if you're gonna change shocks just get some decent aftermarket ones or stock 450r shocks that are adjustable at least, still longer though screws the ride height up. hope i helped somewhat

[Saul76]

Originally posted by RyanWsly
I don't quite understand the shifting problem, you just go into #2 and after that no movement in the shifter, or movement in shifter and shift drum with no change in gear?

The bike was 'always' just in second gear ... if you shifted it up and held the shifter it would go between gears to 'N' and if you shifted down it would go between gears to 'N' --- but you had to 'hold' the shifter up or down with your foot or it would just fall back into gear.

[RyanWsly]

Got you now, your stuck in 2nd, I agree with a bent fork theory now. Wasn't sure how you were getting N and 2nd and nothing else sounded like everthing was moving on the drum, now it doesn't.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by RyanWsly
Got you now, your stuck in 2nd, I agree with a bent fork theory now. Wasn't sure how you were getting N and 2nd and nothing else sounded like everthing was moving on the drum, now it doesn't.

Yeah. I just hope it aint too serious ... I've got it back to 'roller' status now and wanna repair the engine and make a runner out of it again. lol

[Saul76]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Important tools that have not yet been mentioned:

MAPP Gas Torch
Gigantic Sand-Filled Rubber Mallet
Air Impact Gun with 100psi.


James

I've got a propane torch and large rubber mallet. My impact gun, however, is corded and not overly powerful.

I really need to step up to an air impact soon!

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Saul76
I've got a propane torch and large rubber mallet. My impact gun, however, is corded and not overly powerful.

I really need to step up to an air impact soon!


nuttin' at all wrong with a corded impact. i have one aswell as an air and use each equally. :cool:

[Saul76]

Nerf bars - can 88-89 Nerfs be made to fit on the 86-87's?

[Saul76]

Woot! Fedex just showed up with a box from RMATV - haven't opened it yet.

Tomorrow should be fun or, well, frustrating. lol

Wish me luck!

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Saul76


Tomorrow should be fun or, well, frustrating. lol



Well - that certainly was not FUN. :grr:

Decided to go ahead abd split the cases - popped the flywheel off with the flywheel tool easily enough.

Took all bolts out of engine case - installed case splitter - started splittin - started coming apart and then wouldn't come any further - then - CRACK! :mad:

Now, with no cash to replace the case this build is 'on hold' unless someone has a very CHEAP case half to sell?

Anyways - here are pics - hopefully someone can see where I wen't wrong and why the cases wouldn't come apart easily?!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2193.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2194.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2195.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2196.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2197.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2198.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2199.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2200.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2201.jpg

Here is the damage -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2202.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2203.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2204.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/case/IMG_2205.jpg

I'm totally bummed out now.

[86 Quad R]

dammit!!! that sux man. i hate to hear these sort of horror stories. the only suggestion i can give is to be patient and as you've grown to realize, these things can test them. which side busted as i cant see the pics because of the fact that here at work they have certain sires blocked. including the one you have as a host.

[RyanWsly]

that sucks, might try removing the broken parts, assembling the low end back together to see if all the shafts still turn and line up, if so maybe you know someone that can weld it back together, maybe worth a shot if everything lines back up. The case half you cracked is the one everyone and their brother wants cause when the chain chucks a lot of times it gets eaten. Guy near me used to have some low end parts and some case halves that the chain had got don't know if you could salvage them or not, that was over a year ago, but maybe worth a shot. May take a while to catch him, don't know him that well.

p.s busted gear may have something to do with it...........

just saw that about the nerf bars, are they pro-peg ones, then no, most just bolt on the foot pegs so ya

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
dammit!!! that sux man. i hate to hear these sort of horror stories. the only suggestion i can give is to be patient and as you've grown to realize, these things can test them. which side busted as i cant see the pics because of the fact that here at work they have certain sires blocked. including the one you have as a host.

sprocket/stator side - I'm just not understanding what went wrong.

Looking on ebay now and people are asking retarded amounts for a new case half.

This may be the end of this build - I dunno. :(

For what this will end up costing me before all is said and done I coulda just bought a good running bottom end and been done with it.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Saul76
sprocket/stator side - I'm just not understanding what went wrong.

Looking on ebay now and people are asking retarded amounts for a new case half.

This may be the end of this build - I dunno. :(

For what this will end up costing me before all is said and done I coulda just bought a good running bottom end and been done with it.

not necesserily true. i've experienced this with local guys and i ultimately ended up building an engine for them in the end. and in each case these were "just built, fresh, en ready to run" :rolleyes:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by RyanWsly
that sucks, might try removing the broken parts, assembling the low end back together to see if all the shafts still turn and line up, if so maybe you know someone that can weld it back together, maybe worth a shot if everything lines back up.

I can't get it fully apart! And looking in there I can see tranny parts have fallen or moved or whatever - right now I just would like to separate the two halves and get it all took apart.

I dunno if I would trust welding that crack? :confused:

[RyanWsly]

try unbolting the outer part of the shift drum maybe? one might think its is stuck in that area considering the problem it had, may let that case come off that side. It is the part where the ratchets go, bolt looks like a rod with a nut on the bottom of it. welding idea, I don't have it in front of me to see the exact damage, you think it's too bad then don't waste your time then.

[86 Quad R]

pm sent :cool:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by RyanWsly
welding idea, I don't have it in front of me to see the exact damage, you think it's too bad then don't waste your time then.

the pic makes it look worst then it is.

[Saul76]

Ok - got the cases apart finally - I wiggled around the lose pieces and it popped open - seems a broken gear was jamming up in there - and I guess that was most certainly the problem - a gear was in about 7 pieces - ugh!

No visible damage inside the case though.

Gunna get it fully taken apart tomorrow - snap pics and have a good look at the case crack - might be able to weld it yet. hmmmm

[rigger]

It is kind of hard to see in th pictures but I think you could weld that up and ride on.

When I split mine not to long ago, I am pretty sure that the shift drum part that was mentioned before needed to come out before you can split the case. Not 100% on that though.

But where it is cracked, looks like maybe a gear part or something may have been up in there and cracked the case when it got some force applied to it. Hard to say for sure until you get it all apart and check it all out.

I would just weld up the case as long as all the important running serfaces are ok. Or just find a used case, replace the busted parts and ride on.

You can still build on a budget. I started an 86 frame this past December and I thought it would be a couple of years before I am where I am with it now. Lack of funds and time really hurt it. I am now almost able to ride it. I never thought I could build it in the time frame that I have on the budget that I have done it with.

Take your time, ask questions and you will get it done.

[Honda 250r 001]

**** man that sucks. good luck. i only have a right side case... :(

i dont think you broke the cases, i think it was like that before. you got impatient didint you? oyu ahve to make sure the cases split strait. Thats not hard to fix. But your defeantly gonna need new tranny gears for the ones you broke.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by rigger
It is kind of hard to see in th pictures but I think you could weld that up and ride on.



Right now I am really wishing that will work. Tomorrow I'll get better pics - and measure the crack and report back. It's right under the sprocket pretty much.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001


i dont think you broke the cases, i think it was like that before.

I'm honestly thinking it was like this before I split the cases - heres why - when I got it and went to drain the tranny fluid there was hardly any in there!

That kinda threw me for a loop at the time - but now it makes sense - the guy I brought it from told me this "his bro took it out, came back about an hour later with the bike stuck in second' then the bike just sat in this condistion for years - never worked on or even attempted a repair - so, maybe, just maybe, when his bro blew that tranny gear to piece it cracked the case? Tranny fluid then leaked out through there hence why the bike had next to no tranny fluid when I drained it?

I mean the broken gear was jamming up the cases - when I gave it a few taps and it came loose the case just popped apart.

I only WISH I had a pic of that area of the engine BEFORE I pulled the engine apart now. Damn.

REgardless - if I get more better pics tomorrow someone will be able to identify which gear I need I hope?

And maybe advise me if the case looks to be a candidate for welding or if I outta look for a new half?

[Saul76]

I'm syarting to consider JB Welding the F@@k outta that crack - theres no pressure in that location - no rubbing - I just need it not to leak - right?

What do you all think?

[Honda 250r 001]

no way man, weld it up, then it will be a permanent good fix. I can identify the gear easily if you can find all the pieces, piece them together and get pics of both sides of it.

[fulltiltrider]

That piece of the case is broke due to the shattering of second gear, I would say. It just wouldnt come apart because of the gear pieces. Honestly that part of the case...weld it up, hell go ahead and jb it from the inside. Just clean it up real good before you do it. I've done it before on a banshee and I bet it was the strongest part of the case. Do it in thin layers not one big glob, thats how you get it strong. See if you can find a 88-89 tranny, you'll like it better than the 86...5th-6th are closer.

[86 Quad R]

yea saul. i just took a look see at the pics you sent(thanks by the way). it most deffinately looks as tho the damage was pre-existing from the tranny parts. as mentioned, i'd have that sucker fixed and replace the tranny parts that need replacing..

[Saul76]

Here's todays update.

1st - a few pictures so someone better then me might see whats going on and identify everything.

Just to say - the shift shafts and forks are straight and unbent. The main problem is one broken gear AND it took some teeth off the main shaft as you will see.

Then, obviously, the cracked case. Which I do hope to weld?!

Ok -

1st pic - I *think* the broken gear was supposed to be on the very end of the sprocket shaft here (close to the center of the case) - to ME it seems when the gear broke it also broke off a few teeth from the shaft parrallel to it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2212.jpg

Broken gear -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2213.jpg

In this pic you can see teeth broken off on the main shaft ... looks to be where that broken gear would have 'meshed' with that and they both broke at the same time?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2216.jpg

Now, I'm pretty sure this piece goes on the shaft BEFORE the broken gear - example - this piece goes on - then broken gear after it? (I also have a video to demostrate at end of post.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2218.jpg

OK - here it is 'assembled' like I *think* it should be?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2228.jpg

And here is a video that shows the pieces ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EmtiORG7nk


HELP!!!!!!!!!

Also - some more pics of the cracked case for your enjoyment ...

extreme closeup inside
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2227.jpg

outside ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2225.jpg

inside again further away ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2224.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2223.jpg

[Honda 250r 001]

the tranny is ligned up wrong you need to turn the shaft around. So one shaft is pointing one way, and the other shaft is pointing the other. Ill go see if i can find you a gear and shaft right now.
Thanks

EDIT:!!!

Alright man i got the ONE GEAR, and the shaft you need. Is there any other gear that looks bad that you think needs replaced?

Look closly as the places where the gears mesh side by side, the little cogs and if there rounded off, they could prolly used replaced.
Do you need the bushing that the gear runs on? I can send that too if you need it.

If you think the rest of the tranny is ok i can ship this stuff out.
Thanks

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
the tranny is ligned up wrong you need to turn the shaft around. So one shaft is pointing one way, and the other shaft is pointing the other. Ill go see if i can find you a gear and shaft right now.
Thanks



You mean in this pic here?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/gears/IMG_2228.jpg

Thats just the way I have em on the bench right now. I understand they need to be opposite.


EDIT:!!!

Alright man i got the ONE GEAR, and the shaft you need. Is there any other gear that looks bad that you think needs replaced?

Look closly as the places where the gears mesh side by side, the little cogs and if there rounded off, they could prolly used replaced.
Do you need the bushing that the gear runs on? I can send that too if you need it.

If you think the rest of the tranny is ok i can ship this stuff out.
Thanks

The rest of the gears look good to me - just that one busted gear and the main shaft - I guess it's safe to say when the gear went it took out that shaft too?

The bushing you speak of - is that the one I show in the video?

[Honda 250r 001]

whoops i just noticed the video, looks like you have the bushing.
I will get you some pictures in minutes and you give me your adress and i will send the parts.

by the way, you have everything correct on the countershaft.

When you take all the gears off the main shaft. I would just put them exactly the way they were back on the new shaft.
Thanks

[Saul76]

Local place welded it up - cost 12 dollars.

We'll see how it holds up one reassembled I guess.

[cmanningjr]

$12 is not bad at all.

Post pics please...:blah:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by cmanningjr
$12 is not bad at all.

Post pics please...:blah:

I may get some today - it's an ugly weld, to say the least. lol

[05LSR250R]

A little putty on the inside wouldnt hurt! Just be sure to rough up and get the material really clean so it dont flake off in the future and float around your case half!

[Saul76]

Tomorrow I'm gunna "test" the weld/repair by propping the case up in such a way so that I can put some oil in there right over the cracked area and let it sit for 2-3 days - if it doesn't leak by then I should be good to go I would think?

[rigger]

use something thinner to test for a leak. I would use something like gas but it would evaporate in that amount of time. It may also be hard to get JB to stick really good on the inside if you flood the crack with oil.

But then again, I guess it would already be full of oil so it may not matter now anyway.

I am sure the weld would hold by itself but I don't think it would hurt to JB it on the inside.

[Saul76]

*update*

Got my gear and countershaft today - thanks Honda 250r 001 - your freaking awesome to send those parts to me like that.

Anyways - I installed everything into the left crankcase first - everything spins free - no binding whatsoever.

I then put the right case on and install all the bolts - now the countershaft/gears turn but they are MUCH stiffer. It's very difficult to turn by hand now. But - they still spin free with no binding or locking.

Does this seem 'OK' to you guys who have split cases before?

Tomorrow I'll be installing all the clutch parts and see if it shifts in and out of all 6 gears. *fingers crossed*

Say a little prayer for Saul and the 86TRX!

[Melton69]

Keep us posted. I just found this thread and have learned alot of useful information.

I am glad to have found this site cause once I begin rebuilding mine I will definetely need the help of all of you guys. I will start a forum that will go from beginning to end with the build. I get my frame and a bunch of miscellanious* parts back from sand blasting tomorrow!

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Melton69
Keep us posted. I just found this thread and have learned alot of useful information.

Thats what I do - read and read and read - try to absorb as much information as possible. Pick things up from other peoples experiences and apply them to your own builds and/or problems.

If someone woulda told me a year or so ago I would be splitting the engine cases on one of my machines I'd said you were crazy. Small maintenace jobs? Sure! But breaking an engine down as far as it can possibly be broken down - staring at all those lil parts and washers, nuts and bolts on my workbench and attempting to put it all together again?! Quite intimidating.

BUT - having done it I have to say it felt good cracking the cases open - and really getting a good look at the internals of these little 2-strokes. Quite a learning experience.

Do I have it put back together correct? I don't know yet - and that's kinda fun but kinda creepy, ya know?

I'll know a lot more later today when I get back out there at it.


I am glad to have found this site cause once I begin rebuilding mine I will definetely need the help of all of you guys. I will start a forum that will go from beginning to end with the build. I get my frame and a bunch of miscellanious* parts back from sand blasting tomorrow!

That's a great idea - make sure to download a good manual for yourself or, if you don't have a PC in your workshop buy a hardcopy on ebay .. it's WELL worth it!

Another idea is to study the parts fiche for your bike on bikebandit.com - get yourself familiar with all the small parts and how they go together.

Good luck with YOUR build and PLEASE say a prayer for me and mine. :D

[fulltiltrider]

What all did you do to engine while it was apart, I mean like bearings and such. I would have at least changed out the crank bearings and considering the tranny damage, the bearings for that as well. You say it doesnt turn freely now, how tight is it. It should spin freely. Could be a bearing considering the busted gear and the possibility of that hardened steel getting in there. Just a thought.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by fulltiltrider
What all did you do to engine while it was apart, I mean like bearings and such.

I changed all the bearings and seals.

OK - I've put everything back together UP to having my clutch basket now on ... by now when I try to hand shift the engine on the bench should it be shifting through gears now?

Cause it ain't. :(

Everything is just turning free - I can turn the sprocket shaft by hand and everything turns free - main shaft, crank shaft etc etc - but trying to handshift it into gear isn't doing anything.

Wouldn't something be 'binding' if it wasn't correct inside?

Please help and advice, opinions, suggestions - before I go any further.

Thanks.

[steve250r]

When your shifting the tranny on the bench, are you turning either the counter shaft or the main shaft as well to click it into the next gear? The tranny needs to be spinning just a little bit to engage the next gear correctly on the bench.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by steve250r
When your shifting the tranny on the bench, are you turning either the counter shaft or the main shaft as well to click it into the next gear? The tranny needs to be spinning just a little bit to engage the next gear correctly on the bench.

Yup. :(

Looks like something is messed up. :rolleyes: OMFG - this blows hard.

I'll get out there and try again later - spin the countershaft some more as I try to shift.

Right now the shifter won't shift 'down' at all - but it will move upwards with a click then bring up.

WTF did I do wrong I wonder?

[steve250r]

Make sure you have the ratcheting part of the shift drum installed correctly and the spring on the stopper is working correctly.

Try spinning it some more and shifting before you start pulling things apart, sometimes they can be difficult to shift on the bench. Also make sure you have the little collar on the shift shaft, where it connects to the ratchet on the shift drum. Without that it would be difficult to shift.

[86 Quad R]

i know the timing is off but for future reference you should shift the tranny through the gears prior to putting on the second case half, rotating the shift drum with two fingers and rotating the counter shaft. it is possible to get the shift forks out of time so to speak.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by steve250r
Make sure you have the ratcheting part of the shift drum installed correctly and the spring on the stopper is working correctly.

Try spinning it some more and shifting before you start pulling things apart, sometimes they can be difficult to shift on the bench. Also make sure you have the little collar on the shift shaft, where it connects to the ratchet on the shift drum. Without that it would be difficult to shift.

I'll admit that I may have installed something wrong, but - I really followed the book to the letter. Meticulously so.

Really took my time putting it back together.

I'll try to exhaust every possible solution before ripping it apart again though - thats for sure.

Any suggestions or opinions you guys might have - I MORE then welcome them!

[MotoX_Racer07]

Make sure the case halves surfaces are flat, Sit them on a surface plate with about a 220 grit sandpaper to start. Run the case halve mating surface back and forth making sure to keep it flat. Check the sealing surface and see where the sand paper actually cleaned the surface. Reason being I've welded many cases and depending on how much heat was layed out, it can warp your cases. This could possibly be why the cases are not comming together. Most welders that weld these cases from random shops do not realize this. Depends on where the weld is also, it may be junk or possibly still useable. Just a thought though, you may be fine. But I've seen this before. Or it could be just something installed wrong.

[Saul76]

I'm not using the welded case. I bought another case halve from a member here. The cases seem to be mated together great and sealed.


Originally posted by MotoX_Racer07
Make sure the case halves surfaces are flat, Sit them on a surface plate with about a 220 grit sandpaper to start. Run the case halve mating surface back and forth making sure to keep it flat. Check the sealing surface and see where the sand paper actually cleaned the surface. Reason being I've welded many cases and depending on how much heat was layed out, it can warp your cases. This could possibly be why the cases are not comming together. Most welders that weld these cases from random shops do not realize this. Depends on where the weld is also, it may be junk or possibly still useable. Just a thought though, you may be fine. But I've seen this before. Or it could be just something installed wrong.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
i know the timing is off but for future reference you should shift the tranny through the gears prior to putting on the second case half, rotating the shift drum with two fingers and rotating the counter shaft. it is possible to get the shift forks out of time so to speak.

And this is where I think my problem lies man. :(

The 'shift drum center' and the 'shift drum' itself - is that supposed to turn freely right now? Cause mine doesn't turn.

The stopper arm is supposed to sit down in the grooves of the shift drum center right? And when you shift gears it moves from notch to notch?

I'm thinking I don't have the actual shift drum (inside the case halves) in the proper position because now looking at the manual the 'dowel pin' is at the upper part more towards the main shaft - mine however is more towards the bottom?

Figure this is my problem?

Would the fork shafts even had went in the shift drum if it all wasn't lined up properly?

This is a nitemare. The manual didn't say or show the 'shift drum' having to be in any certain position either - I pretty much just set it up so that the 3 shift forks and rods 'fit' and slotted in the grooves on the shift drum.

What I just wrote probably doesn't make any sense?

[fulltiltrider]

If you put the shift forks into their corresponding slots it doesnt matter what position the drum is in, it should work. If you have nothing binding I would guess you have everything inside correct. My guess is something is wrong with the shift arm that rolls on the drum. I did this once a long time ago, had the collar on the arm messed up, and it would find a false neutral and would not stay in gear under power. Take your time you'll figure it out. The satisfaction when its up and running knowing you did it yourself will be priceless.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by fulltiltrider
If you put the shift forks into their corresponding slots it doesnt matter what position the drum is in, it should work.

OK. But should the shift drum and shift drum center 'turn' freely right now?



If you have nothing binding I would guess you have everything inside correct.

Kinda what I was thinking - nothing is sticking or binding - I can turn the mainshaft and countershaft by hand all day. Spins free!

My only concern is if the shift drum/center is supposed to turn right now?

Again, I can't push the shift lever 'down' - I can pull it up but it doesn't engage any gears.



My guess is something is wrong with the shift arm that rolls on the drum. I did this once a long time ago, had the collar on the arm messed up, and it would find a false neutral and would not stay in gear under power.

I'll re-check this too. I'm really close to splitting the cases open again but really don't wanna. Hoping theres something I'm missing.



Take your time you'll figure it out. The satisfaction when its up and running knowing you did it yourself will be priceless.

very true man.

[fulltiltrider]

Yeah the shift drum should turn, Do you have something messed up with the ratchet and pawls? Can you take of the retainer plate and the ratchet assembly off and spin the drum?

[Saul76]

Split the cases again - shift drum had come out of position. Put it back together and it 'bench' shifts just fine now.

MAYBE tomorrow I'll have it back in the frame - we'll see.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Saul76
Split the cases again - shift drum had come out of position. Put it back together and it 'bench' shifts just fine now.

MAYBE tomorrow I'll have it back in the frame - we'll see.

good deal!!!! i admire your determination. most would've farmed it out by now. :cool:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
good deal!!!! i admire your determination. most would've farmed it out by now. :cool:

To heck with that! You can only learn from your mistakes and experiences.

I wanna get this thing running! I own the only 250R(well, 300R actually) trike in my town and now the only 250R quad. I wanna get out there and smoke the couple craptors we have round here.

Hah!

[Saul76]

The engine is now full assembled and waiting to go in the frame. If I can free up an hour or so later on today it's going in - if not, tomorrow for sure.

Getting closer! :eek2:

Still need a lower motor mount bolt though. :confused:

[86 Quad R]

got a local hardware store you can go to en get a bolt?

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
got a local hardware store you can go to en get a bolt?

Not the proper size no. :(

[Saul76]

Engine in - hooked up. Fired up 3rd kick! Woot.

Tomorrow I'll do some heat cycles and check base nut torque - by Friday I should be able to run it.

The freaking Paul Turner 89TRX Race pipe was a ***** to fit at first (the small section which goes through frame and joins engine) and BOY is it ever close to the kickstarter!

Also, do you guys advice using any sealant where the pipe joins from the header section to the middle section?

Too bad freaking UPS had to lose my tank. :grr:

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by Saul76
Engine in - hooked up. Fired up 3rd kick! Woot.

Tomorrow I'll do some heat cycles and check base nut torque - by Friday I should be able to run it.

The freaking Paul Turner 89TRX Race pipe was a ***** to fit at first (the small section which goes through frame and joins engine) and BOY is it ever close to the kickstarter!

Also, do you guys advice using any sealant where the pipe joins from the header section to the middle section?

Too bad freaking UPS had to lose my tank. :grr:

Gotta use high temp rtv on those pipes. Only way Ive ever sealed them up. Be generous with it on the piece that slides into the other and allow it to set overnight before starting and it should seal up good

[Honda 250r 001]

thats great to hear man, im glad you got the engine goin! one more R saved from the dungen!

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
thats great to hear man, im glad you got the engine goin! one more R saved from the dungen!

Ladies and gents - this guy right here is a prime example of a guy willing to help! He contacted me when I posted my tranny probs - asked me which parts I needed for sure. I told him and he sent em out - free - wouldn't even take shipping!

Again, friend, thank you. One day I hope to be able to help you too!

So I got a chain on her and decided to try her around the yard. Tuned and jetted correctly this thing might be a handful. I was unimpressed down low and only went half throttle but when the pipe came on at half throttle she really snaps hard.

Gunna burn this tank of gas and keep re-checking base nuts - once the tank of gas is gone - run the piss outta her and see whats what.

Some pics ... :thumbup

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2510.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2511.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2512.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2513.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2515.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2516.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2517.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2518.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2521.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2522.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2523.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2524.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/IMG_2525.jpg

Black Diamond - 1986 Honda 250R TRX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CejeMdt98LU#normal)

[Saul76]

More transmission 'gremlins' ... today I got to really take it for a ride and, well, sometimes when shifting I get a 'false neutral' ... I checked fork shafts and forks before putting the tranny back together - the shafts were straight and forks were in spec as per manual.

Tomorrow I'll pull clutch cover, pressure plate, plates & basket and make sure everything is tight in there. Maybe (I'm hoping) something is loose and the stopper arm isn't locking into the shift drum center?

ARGH!

Couple new pics anyways ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/IMG_2536.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/IMG_2537.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/IMG_2538.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/IMG_2540.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/IMG_2544.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/IMG_2545.jpg

[rhinorick]

do you want to sell the gold wheeles off the rear? saw ya had some on the first pic now they look like there off

[Honda 250r 001]

man you really kicked ***! that looks really nice compared to how it looked when you bought it! Nice job!

[Saul76]

Originally posted by rhinorick
do you want to sell the gold wheeles off the rear? saw ya had some on the first pic now they look like there off

They are on the three wheeler now. :)

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
man you really kicked ***! that looks really nice compared to how it looked when you bought it! Nice job!

Thanks - some nice polished front wheels will help and nerfs and shocks and ... you know, the never ending list!!

Oh and my Black Clarke Desert tank WOULD have looked pretty trick. :mad:

[Saul76]

Took apart my 3 piece pipe tonight as I was gunna seal it all up with hi-temp silicone ... and the header part was half full of fuel?! That can't be normal?

then I pulled the clutch cover to see if I could see any reason why the bike is missing some shifts and hitting false neutrals .. I figured maybe the stopper arm was to blame ... get it all apart and notice the stoper arm is up and away from the shift drum?!

So I break it all down till I get to the shift drum and what do you know - shift drum is again locked and won't move. So the bike is out there stuck in gear again.

All I did was turn the bike up on it's side a bit so that when I pulled the clutch cover all the oil wouldnt run out. That seriously wouldn't affect anything! Geez.

It was shifting through all gears all day yesterday right up to when I shut it off and put it in the garage.

What the hell could happen to a PARKED bike?

I'm guessing something had to have happened when I took the clutch crap off tonight. The shift drum musta moved inside out of position or something I guess?!

I really dunno .. but it looks like if I wanna fix it I'll need to split the cases yet again. Geez.

[Honda 250r 001]

you used the manual to put it all back together correct? the way honda said that it should be? if you did man idk something must be worn out or something. i wish i could fly up there and help ya lol but i dont think i have the money for that haha. I have never had ANY trouble with my shifting and i have taken it apart once and put it in a new set of cases. there pretty solid once you get them working right.

and by the way, is that a dogde pickup i see in the background? :P im a big dogde man.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
you used the manual to put it all back together correct? the way honda said that it should be? if you did man idk something must be worn out or something.

Yeah I used a manual and put it all back together exactly as instructed. Exactly.

I was riding it for a few hours yesterday and besides a few false neutrals it was shifting through all 6 gears just fine.

I shut it off and put it away.

I removed clutch cover tonight and all clutch components and found the shift drum won't move at all.

Can the shift drum 'pin' be over tightened? I know I really tightened it up good and tight.

*argh*

Guess I gotta order yet another case gasket (or 2 or 3 or 4) and split the cases yet again?!

p.s. - does anyone have a picture of a fairly new spring that goes behind the stopper arm?


and by the way, is that a dogde pickup i see in the background? :P im a big dogde man.

Yeah - 01 RT 5.9 - guess It's next in line to break down. :rolleyes:

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Saul76
Yeah I used a manual and put it all back together exactly as instructed. Exactly.

I was riding it for a few hours yesterday and besides a few false neutrals it was shifting through all 6 gears just fine.

I shut it off and put it away.

I removed clutch cover tonight and all clutch components and found the shift drum won't move at all.

Can the shift drum 'pin' be over tightened? I know I really tightened it up good and tight.

*argh*

Guess I gotta order yet another case gasket (or 2 or 3 or 4) and split the cases yet again?!

p.s. - does anyone have a picture of a fairly new spring that goes behind the stopper arm?



Yeah - 01 RT 5.9 - guess It's next in line to break down. :rolleyes:
I love my 97 dodge but right now its got some electrical problems, wont shift, go in gear, run correct or idle.

we think it needs a new computer system or at least rebooted.

you will get that 250r, it just feels that much better when you go for a long ride and it works perfect.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001


you will get that 250r, it just feels that much better when you go for a long ride and it works perfect.

Felt really good Friday when I could start it up and ride it! I mean, a few false neutrals here and there - but - at least I could ride it.

What happened between the time I shut it off to when I pulled the clutch cover - I dunno?!

Heading out in an hour or so to pull the clutch cover yet again and have another look/teardown - if I don't find anything - out comes the engine and another case split. Probably replace a few things inside regardless of how they look.

You still got that box O' tranny parts?

[Honda 250r 001]

haha yep i stil got them.

When you take the cases apart, take close up pics of all the shifting stuff in the right side case. The hard part to get together i think is the shift pawls and springs in the clutch side of the case. I would take that out and out it back in and try it again.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
haha yep i stil got them.

If I split the case again I might buy some of that from you. :)


When you take the cases apart, take close up pics of all the shifting stuff in the right side case. The hard part to get together i think is the shift pawls and springs in the clutch side of the case. I would take that out and out it back in and try it again.

OMG - don't even be talking about those freaking shift pawls - I musta spent 45 minutes or longer last nite before I FINALLY got that back in again. I just DREAD going out there and tackling the shift pawls again .. those lil springs and crap .. my lorn - what a piece of genuis that is. lol

My MAIN concern is that the shift drum center is not turning when I take everything apart - this leads me to think something is keeping the actual shift drum inside the case from turning.

[Saul76]

*shrug*

I'm at a loss for words.

Went out and tore the clutch cover off yet again and took everything out of there. Wanted to see if I could get the shift drum to turn. It was still locked solid. In frustration I gave the shaft the clutch basket rides on a tap with my rubber mallet while spinning the wheels -- shift drum started moving free.

WTF?!

I'll be splitting the case again pretty soon.

Anyways - since I have no extra gaskets kicking around I figured I'd put all the parts back in, close it up and give it a whirl.

Before I could though I had to DUMP a pool of gas out of the pipe. (my carb overflowed a ton of gas into both my crankcase and pipe yesterday - drained my bottom end, took pipe off and dumped it - fill crankcase with fresh tranny oil.

Now - to be on the safe side I decided to pull the carb and just stick the PJ carb from the 300R on there.

I noticed with both carbs off that the one on the 300 is bigger then the 34 stocker on the TRX. I'm guessing it's 38 maybe.

ANYWAYS - figured I'd slap it on and try it as is because the jetting is pretty much the same except for a different needle.

Fired it up and it revved to the moon!! Got it to idle down by adjusted the idle and airscrew - both pretty much bottomed out. Ugh. But it came down to a nice idle regardless.

I jumped on figured I would get to the end of the driveway before the gears locked up or false neutrals etc etc etc - 90 minutes later I just got home ... not one missed gear the whole freaking ride. Only problems I had were it is hard to find neutral and the bike started dieseling big time towards the end of the ride - I put the choke on, it helped a lil but then she started revving to the moon again - I was pretty close to home so I just hit the kill switch and coasted - started it, got it rolling and again and coasted home.

The new carb turned the bike into an absolute rocket in the mid and top end department. Holy crap.

Theres a lil flat spot right at the begining portion of the throttle but then it just 'snaps' like crazy the rest of the powerband.

I just need to figure out why it's revving to the moon.

[RyanWsly]

Sounds like it's lean on the pilot jet, float sounds like it's sticking on the 34, or isn't height isn't set correctly.

[born2ride14]

Great turn around man, how much do you have in it?

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 300maniac
Great turn around man, how much do you have in it?

As it sits right now?

I recovered the seat with material I had. So that was free.

Uhh - pretty much just the bottom end bearings and seals - so about 75 dollars. (unless you count the tools I bought to work on the bottom end - then about 150$ total) :D

I also bought a Desert Tank for 100 dollars but UPS lost it. That doesn't really count I guess.

[Honda 250r 001]

either theirs a leak in the intake or the carb is jetted wrong.

What jets do you have in it right now?

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
either theirs a leak in the intake or the carb is jetted wrong.

What jets do you have in it right now?

155 main, 48 pilot.

[Saul76]

Just to better explain the high revving .. I initally started the bike and it revved to the moon and I got it down to a normal idle by adjusted the idle down as far as it would go and screwing the a/f screw in until it lightly bottomed out - then backed it out 1/2 a turn.

So I rode for quite some time and it performed excellent .... I stopped for a second to clean my goggles -popped it in neutral and right away it revved insane. I choked it and it was ok for about 30-60 seconds - then revved up again. I had it home soon thereafter. Haven't had it running since though.

Pilot maybe too lean?

Petcock seems to be flowing fuel just fine.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Saul76
Just to better explain the high revving .. I initally started the bike and it revved to the moon and I got it down to a normal idle by adjusted the idle down as far as it would go and screwing the a/f screw in until it lightly bottomed out - then backed it out 1/2 a turn.

So I rode for quite some time and it performed excellent .... I stopped for a second to clean my goggles -popped it in neutral and right away it revved insane. I choked it and it was ok for about 30-60 seconds - then revved up again. I had it home soon thereafter. Haven't had it running since though.

Pilot maybe too lean?

Petcock seems to be flowing fuel just fine.

you got a pilot thats too small, i would try a bigger pilot for starters.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
you got a pilot thats too small, i would try a bigger pilot for starters.

You really think so? I'll give it a try. I dunno if I have anything bigger onhand - if not I'll order up a few more sizes.

[Honda 250r 001]

im runnning a 55 i think in mine, but its a 39 pwk... next time that 34 pj starts dumping fuel take a screw drive and tap on the bowl of the carb and see if it will stop. I think you should clean the 34 and throw it back on and see how it runs.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
im runnning a 55 i think in mine, but its a 39 pwk... next time that 34 pj starts dumping fuel take a screw drive and tap on the bowl of the carb and see if it will stop. I think you should clean the 34 and throw it back on and see how it runs.

I wanna run the 38mm for a lil more top end.

Ok, get this - I pulled the carb & realized I had the pilots in my carbs messed up - the 38 on the quad now has/had a 63 pilot in it?! ROFL - I realized right away this was certainly not too lean.

So - I realized the problem was elsewhere. I put a bucket under the now unhooked gas line and turned the petcock on - it flowed a little then stopped. There we go!

Turned it on reserve and it flowed just fine.

Looked in the tank - FILTHY!

So I have the tank pulled now for cleaning, gunna clean the petcock and put new lines on there while I'm at it.

*fingers crossed*

Might also drop down the pilot - I think the 63 is too big for my application - I'm at sea level - fairly decent climate, very light mods.

When I had the 34PJ on there with the 48pilot on it started just fine and idled good. Yesterday with the 63 pilot and 38mm pj there was a 'stumble' off idle.

Experiment and see I guess.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Saul76
I wanna run the 38mm for a lil more top end.

Ok, get this - I pulled the carb & realized I had the pilots in my carbs messed up - the 38 on the quad now has/had a 63 pilot in it?! ROFL - I realized right away this was certainly not too lean.

So - I realized the problem was elsewhere. I put a bucket under the now unhooked gas line and turned the petcock on - it flowed a little then stopped. There we go!

Turned it on reserve and it flowed just fine.

Looked in the tank - FILTHY!

So I have the tank pulled now for cleaning, gunna clean the petcock and put new lines on there while I'm at it.

*fingers crossed*

Might also drop down the pilot - I think the 63 is too big for my application - I'm at sea level - fairly decent climate, very light mods.

When I had the 34PJ on there with the 48pilot on it started just fine and idled good. Yesterday with the 63 pilot and 38mm pj there was a 'stumble' off idle.

Experiment and see I guess.

63? Are you sure? I didnt think that made that number. I would start with a 58 and see where that puts you. Im sure cleaning that tank if its dirty will make it run better.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
63? Are you sure? I didnt think that made that number. I would start with a 58 and see where that puts you. Im sure cleaning that tank if its dirty will make it run better.

It's kinda hard to read but that certainly was a six and I'm pretty sure a three. Genuine stamped K on it too.

[Saul76]

Ok - still get the 'death rev' when I start it. Until it warms up a lil. If I back the A/F screw out ANY amount - death rev. Same with adjusting idle.

Right now to get a 'idle' that is halfway normal I have to tighten the A/F screw in all the way and adjust the idle all the way down ... then it's pretty good.

Weird - this carb came straight off my 300R where it performed flawlessly!!

I sprayed the intake boot - no fluctuation in rev there either.

ANYWAYS - I can see why these quads won every major championship up until 2002. I'm riding on stock suspension and this thing is that nimble and handles so incredible it blows my mind. And the powerplant is pretty potent, even with the MINOR mods I have (38mm PJ, V-force Reeds, K&N & 89 Paul Tuner Race pipe)

I can only imagine what this thing would feel like with an expensive suspension. (winter project for sure!)

And a 310?!

I just hope my gears/tranny holds up now - it's still performing flawlessly at the moment so I'm happy.

Just need to get this carb tuned correctly.

[Saul76]

death rev/high idle = bad throttle cable.

Put new throttle cable on - started up perfect, idles perfect. Woot!

:D

[86 Quad R]

now get out there en plug chop her. she'll squawl like a black panther after she's dialed in.

[Honda 250r 001]

awesome! Your stock gears will be perfectly fine until you start talking big bore, then you want to know that all your gears are in top notch condition.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
now get out there en plug chop her. she'll squawl like a black panther after she's dialed in.

Honestly - I will do a few plug chops - BUT - this thing feels dialed in dead nuts from 1/4 throttle all through WOT ... it pulls very hard and doesn't blubber or surge anywhere.

My only concern is bottom end I guess. I spose I'm too used to the 300R three wheeler - as soon as you blip the throttle it would lift the front tire. I havent 'gassed' the quad from a stand still yet but I've give her a few blips and she hasn't pulled the front tires?

She has power wheelied a couple times shifting into third at speed and cracking the throttle wide open.

But I wanna get her set up for the slow walking wheelies.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
awesome! Your stock gears will be perfectly fine until you start talking big bore, then you want to know that all your gears are in top notch condition.

Thanks for all your help man - if it wasn't for you I still may not have those tranny parts. What you did for me, a perfect stranger was VERY very cool. I'll remember that for a long time bro!

[Saul76]

Ride it hard and put it away dirty!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2645.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2646.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2647.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2648.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2649.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2650.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2650.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2651.jpg

Haha, those pics are actually after I hit with the water hose the first time.

So I said - meh, better try and clean it a lil better before I put it up for the night ...

Lil armorall on a rag...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2652.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2653.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2654.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2655.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2656.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2657.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2658.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/300R_and_trx250R/dirty/IMG_2659.jpg

Man - I'm having a ton of fun with this lil 300 dollar investment!

[Saul76]

Made a custom bracket to properly mount the Paul Turner 89 Race pipe to the 86 frame. Sealed it all up with hi-temp RTV. Need to wait a few hours for it to harden/set up.

So I guess I'll just go out later and mount up my AC Pro-Peg Nerf bars!

[Honda 250r 001]

na man a trx wont wheelie that easy without big bore, shortened swingarm and new tires. Get some pics up when you get the pro pegs mounts up!

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
na man a trx wont wheelie that easy without big bore, shortened swingarm and new tires. Get some pics up when you get the pro pegs mounts up!

My little 270 will wheelie like a mother ****er. Stock swinger.
Second, third, a little gas and hold on. Remember that three
wheeler is a lot lighter up front.

[Saul76]

Cheater bars (as racing legend Mike Coe called them in this interview I did with him (http://www.airfoolers.com/interviews/coe/coe.html)!) installed!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/propeg/IMG_2676.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/propeg/IMG_2678.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/propeg/IMG_2679.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/propeg/IMG_2680.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/propeg/IMG_2681.jpg

Tomorrow I'll give em a good going over with the powerball and some polish and make em shine.

Here is the bracket I made to secure the 89 pipe to the 86 frame - it's VERY secure now with this bracket - 2 springs on the flange, 2 on the pipe, plus a rubber seal and two hose clamps between the pipe and silencer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/propeg/IMG_2682.jpg

[Saul76]

What a feeling!

Yesterday I totally embarrassed a kid on a 660 Raptor. Felt good!

There was 5 kids on smaller-ish dirtbikes & the one kid on the Raptor. What they were doing was timing themselves through a very technical section of one of the local riding spots. Mud, rocks, berms - some spots for good speed too.

About 4 or 5 minutes in and out.

So I had no idea they were there or timing themselves ... the kid on the Raptor was about 30 seconds into his 'run' when I cam flying down the trail past the 2 kids at the 'start' - they were waving their arms frantically ... meh, I just blew on by ... I was in my zone. (I did kinda wonder wtf they were doing stopped there like that)

Before I knew it I am flying up behind the Raptor ... now bear in mind I have no brakes right now. LOL ... we're in a very rough rocky section now ... so I went left and got air off some gnarly rocks and just passed right by him!

Then, a few minutes later, when I exited the 'section' two more kids on dirtbikes waving at first then looking at me strange and puzzled (wtf I thought - later found out they thought I was their friend but quickly realized I wasn't - who was this crazy guy on this screaming quad?! lol)

Anyways - I kept on riding but about 5 or 10 minutes later my curiosity got the better of me so I swung around to find out what the deal was. When I got back there they told me what they were doing and how happy they were I blew past the Raptor cause this kid was a total blowhard who thought his raptor was faster then god.

As it turns out - I entered the section about 30 - 40 seconds behind the raptor and exited about 30 seconds ahead of him!

When the Raptor finished they told him how much quicker I got out and asked how the hell I passed him in that section?! He just huffed and puffed and left in a hurry!

Anyways .. just thought I'd share that. Felt really good that my 300 dollar, 20 year old TRX made a rider on a new-ish 8 - 10k (when new) quad look bad.

All hail the TRX!!

p.s. AC Pro-Pegs are 100 times more comfortable then the stocker footpegs - like wow!

Need Elka's front and back soon (and a 4.0 gallon tank)

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Saul76
What a feeling!

Yesterday I totally embarrassed a kid on a 660 Raptor. Felt good!

There was 5 kids on smaller-ish dirtbikes & the one kid on the Raptor. What they were doing was timing themselves through a very technical section of one of the local riding spots. Mud, rocks, berms - some spots for good speed too.

About 4 or 5 minutes in and out.

So I had no idea they were there or timing themselves ... the kid on the Raptor was about 30 seconds into his 'run' when I cam flying down the trail past the 2 kids at the 'start' - they were waving their arms frantically ... meh, I just blew on by ... I was in my zone. (I did kinda wonder wtf they were doing stopped there like that)

Before I knew it I am flying up behind the Raptor ... now bear in mind I have no brakes right now. LOL ... we're in a very rough rocky section now ... so I went left and got air off some gnarly rocks and just passed right by him!

Then, a few minutes later, when I exited the 'section' two more kids on dirtbikes waving at first then looking at me strange and puzzled (wtf I thought - later found out they thought I was their friend but quickly realized I wasn't - who was this crazy guy on this screaming quad?! lol)

Anyways - I kept on riding but about 5 or 10 minutes later my curiosity got the better of me so I swung around to find out what the deal was. When I got back there they told me what they were doing and how happy they were I blew past the Raptor cause this kid was a total blowhard who thought his raptor was faster then god.

As it turns out - I entered the section about 30 - 40 seconds behind the raptor and exited about 30 seconds ahead of him!

When the Raptor finished they told him how much quicker I got out and asked how the hell I passed him in that section?! He just huffed and puffed and left in a hurry!

Anyways .. just thought I'd share that. Felt really good that my 300 dollar, 20 year old TRX made a rider on a new-ish 8 - 10k (when new) quad look bad.

All hail the TRX!!

p.s. AC Pro-Pegs are 100 times more comfortable then the stocker footpegs - like wow!

Need Elka's front and back soon (and a 4.0 gallon tank)

nice man! i cant see the pics of how you mouted the pro pegs, could u send em to me? hedberg345@hotmail.com

I am thinking about getting a set but didnt know how hard it would be to work.

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
nice man! i cant see the pics of how you mouted the pro pegs, could u send em to me? hedberg345@hotmail.com

I am thinking about getting a set but didnt know how hard it would be to work.

Sent!

Installation was about 10 minutes tops! 100x better then stock pegs!!


Quick question - I've got a small bit of 'hesitation' when coming off idle while riding - not a lot but a small 'stumble' - I figure I can iron this out with the A/F screw. Opinions?

1/4 to WOT is awesome - no stumble, no hesitation - just BRAAAP! The quad wheelies easy once it's 'on the pipe' - get the revs up - crack throttle open and up come the front wheels.

Just off idle stumble now to iron out.

[fulltiltrider]

Originally posted by Ruf Racing
My little 270 will wheelie like a mother ****er. Stock swinger.
Second, third, a little gas and hold on. Remember that three
wheeler is a lot lighter up front.


haha no doubt, my 310p/v will wheelie in 3rd,4th, 5th and off a good knuckle in 6th lol. With 14/39 gearing and 86 tranny!!!



Sounds like you still have a rich pilot in there. At sea level a 50 or 52 should still be fine, maybe even a 48

[Saul76]

[i]Originally posted by fulltiltrider haha no doubt, my 310p/v will wheelie in 3rd,4th, 5th and off a good knuckle in 6th lol. With 14/39 gearing and 86 tranny!!!

I have the 86 tranny and a 14/39 sprocket combo. (or was it rear 38 - crap I'm not sure)




Sounds like you still have a rich pilot in there. At sea level a 50 or 52 should still be fine, maybe even a 48

There is a 48 pilot in there now.

I think adjustment with A/F screw is needed.

[Saul76]

My triple rate Elka's arrived today - so I went out and installed them & went for a quick ride.

When I originally asked about triple rate shocks compared to the stockers someone said the difference would be like 'riding an old eldarado with no suspension and then getting in a new luxury caddilac'

They were right. VERY impressive and a difference you feel when you go over trails you are used to with the stockers. Felt like a whole new quad to be honest.

The lifted the front about an inch too - which works out great for the trails I ride.

Next I might have the rear shock rebuilt/valved or buy an aftermarket.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2986.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2988.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2989.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2990.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2992.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2993.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2994.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/SaulAce/trx/elkas/IMG_2995.jpg

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Saul76

Next I might have the rear shock rebuilt/valved or buy an aftermarket.

[

sir i just believe you caught the fever. :cool:

[Saul76]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
sir i just believe you caught the fever. :cool:

I had the fever as soon as I pulled into the previous owners driveway and saw it! :D

But I - do - have an addictive personality. Since buying this I've even been buying up old ATV magazines to read more about the TRX when it was new and such .. lol.

Typing 'TRX250R' into ebay search engine a dozen times daily etc etc