Building a 90 for MX racing, TONS of questions

[ZSNOW]

Alright. We're looking into building my sister a 90 instead of buying one. She will be Racing NEATV-MX.Shes about 4'10" at like 85 pounds soaking wet. so shes a pretty small girl.

First question- Which Class? shes been riding her whole life and shes been riding with me on her trx90 out on my MX track, but thats about all the MX experience she has.

Second question- Which 90? we were really looking at apex's, specifically a few of the top Apex's in NEATV. but is that the best way to go? or should i build her a trx?

She Really likes the look of the TRX90s. especially joel hetricks old CRF150/TRX.

Any help is appreciated. and im sure we'll have more questions.

Thanks,
Zack:)

[dblacks]

Hey Zack, Give me a call if you want Drew races the 70 and 90 Jr classes, Ill Help with whatever info I can.

207 841 6773


Biggest thing is here age, 8-15 can race the 90 limited class, which is basically a stock class. There only has been 4 to 8 kids in it so it would be a good place to start this year. A Stock trx 90 wont keep up in that class thou.

[ZSNOW]

yeah we probably will start her off in junior next year. we don't want to do a apex or dinli because of the reliability of the CVT.

Whats wrong with the reliability of a Dinli cvt or the Apex cvt? Everyonce in a while you have to change roller and springs but thats maintance like changing the oil in your four stroke once you do it its easy. Dont let that scare you off.IMO

[ZSNOW]

i only said that from the experience i have seen, they seem to break frames and bend a arms and stuff alot. but maybe those are the ones that aren't put together right idk. that was just said from the outside looking in.

if u think the apex is better info on that would be nice too.:)

If your gonna race try getting a DRR you can call Snyder Motorsports who sell the Drr or Gary Fallon who also does. Both are great people who will help you out. Very knowledgeable people. Just trying to help.

[dazed&confused]

if you can afford it, and she is used to a shifter save your money and your sanity and stay with the honda !

it will cost you a good buck for the initial build ,but so does all the cvt's.

don't let the advertisers of the cvt's fool you ,they are not race ready , i don't care what brand you buy .

i have at least $10,000
in my drr and when you think you got it hooked up and fast, somebody comes up with something even faster than the $1500
kit you just bought and then you are spending another $400 on clutchs to make the damn thing reach it's top horse power ,

it is just a viscous circle! good luck !!!!


save your money and your sanity,and buy a soccer ball!lol

Im sorry but if you clucth them in right you wont loose your belts and it dont take 400 no to loose one. Get your clutching right and you will love your 1500 kit and relize its super fast. Good luck.

[LT80]

CVT's break?? LOL
Dude, one thing to know....They all break. CVT, Honda, even the mighty Cobra's break, hell they come with a tow strap (j/k)...LMAO
The only ones that come close to not breaking is the JB modified machines (like Joels old one).. Got an extra 18k laying around? Besides, no offence, your daughter would be afraid of it.

CVT my friend. You'll want a nice dual a-armed Apex or DRR.:)

[dazed&confused]

cheesman,
i totally agree with you on the clutching , but i read on here were you just built a new motor ,because you wanted to keep up!

thats what i was refering to .i had a good motor [so i thought] in the beginning of the year ,and now with the 2fast kit out ,from what i have seen if you don't have one or something simalier you are not going to be competitve.

as far as the clutching goes you don't put a 15-16 horsepower motor in your quad and just throw regular old clutching at it .
it will just keep burning up belts ,it takes time and money and alot of patients to figure it out . jmo

i am not trying to scare anybody away from the cvt's ,just trying to be realistic,that if the girl is good on a shifter quad why go backwards to a cvt?

[ZSNOW]

That was my theory, she already knows how to shift and is fast with a shifter, so why change to a quad that she just holds it wide open.

but 15-16 horsepower out of a CVT is low around here. The top bike is 25. according to people that know the quad.


btw this is my sister not my daughter lol.


Are the honda 90's capable of the horsepower and rideability of a CVT? or if i built her a pretty good honda would she get demolished?

Well u can run your old clutching as long as its not wore out. The rpms makes so much friction you need to get away from what's causing all your friction like to tight of torque spring wrong rollers or wrong size fly springs or the wrong belt once this is done then you have a quad that will RIP with no problems.Remember most of all your power is in ýour clutch.Our first motor was fast but not as fast as our new one. Thanks

[dazed&confused]

cheeseman,
once again ,i agree with you ,but the average person that does not know about these cvt's,will have to go through alot of headachs,money etc. to get there . i have been there ,as i am sure you have too.

luckily i have met some good people along the way that have really helped me out.


zsnow,

25HP.... are you talking about cobras or drrs or apex's?
i know they are getting # out of scooter motors in that range over seas ,but i did not think that the minis were up that far yet.
but these days with the technology anything is possible.

i do not know much about the honda motors ,but it would not surprise me if a good 4 stroke guy could get that out of it.
but i bet it will cost a ton of cash to get that kind of horse power.

[ZSNOW]

thats out of an apex, but its also a apex with 20k into it lol

i think we'll go with a honda just because i don't feel like messing with clutching, i do that enough during snowmobile season!:eek2: and me and my mechanic will put together a motor for it and see what we can pull for #'s...were all the trx90's the same? so year doesn't matter?

[dblacks]

Intersting direction this thread has gone in.

Differences in HP Numbers are some are talking about Crank and some are talking about to the wheels.

Most well built 90 cvt's with well tuned clutching are 13 to 15 HP at the wheels. Stock clutching works just fine when tuned properly.

Most dont know the true Crank # as they haven't had the motor on a CVT Dyno

Zsnow is refferring to a fast CVT but I know that it doesnt have 20k into it and not really sure on the HP but those are advertised #'s from the company that makes the cylinder but as we all know that is really for scooters and hp in the scooter world and not ATV's.



Back on topic Zack, If you are planning on spending $ on Suspension and Shocks and turning the honda into a 125 it can be competative. Dave can build the motor no problem I am sure. It would be good to see a Honda back in the 90 jr class

Thanks for clearing that up DBlacks. Most people only talk and have no clue what they are talking about. You came to there rescue. Thanks again this is a knowledgeable person right here boys listen to him!!

[ZSNOW]

yeah if we build the honda, it will be done right. what do i do for a front end and swingarm? go to atv foreplay? or hetrick? it'll be elka all around no matter what we do for a arms/swing arm:D




and the HP #'s on the apex i was refering too are word of mouth from people that race against him, so im not gonna quote anything there.

Call Snyder Motorsports for your every need he builds them. He is a very good builder and knows his stuff. Good luck with keeping up with the 2 strokes with your Honda and hope your rich to do all your wanting to do with a Honda.

[ZSNOW]

uh? :rolleyes:

[dblacks]

For suspension parts for it talk to Dave and see what kind of deal he can get on that stuff thru Robb's Racing. I am sure he can get a good price on the a-Arms, Swing Arm and some other stuff as I am sure he will be talking to Robb about the motor as well.


just so others know, his sponsor is Dave Therien of DRT Racing and Josh Creamers Mechanic and also a good friend of Robb's Racing, one of the original/best builders of TRX 90's

[etondaddy]

A 125cc Honda is at least 10 g's.



Mike Kozura

[etondaddy]

You really have to nuts to build one you can get a used one for 5 to 6 that some dudes got at least 10 spins in it.



Mike Kozura

[dblacks]

Originally posted by etondaddy
You really have to nuts to build one you can get a used one for 5 to 6 that some dudes got at least 10 spins in it.



Mike Kozura

Agreed but lets face it, we all have to be nuts to participate in Mini Quad racing.....................:rolleyes:

Thats not nutz its stupidity really but to each their own. If hes sponsored then he shouldnt have anything in it by the looks of his sponsorsor are they really his sponsorS? I dont know and dont care but hes going about it the wrong way if these really are his sponsors cause what we say means nothing to the big builders who hes having build them right? Ask them all the questions because its their build not our IMO. Im not being crappy just stating the facts.:huh

[ZSNOW]

alright, so what is the BEST way you guys say to go about this? Especially you Cheeseman, if building a top level bike is stupid tell me how to do this? i don't want it to be a *****ing match about how im doing it wrong. so tell me how i should do this. alright?

and my sponsers aren't going to have alot to do with this, they may help but they're not going to do alot. they have too many other things to be worried about than my sisters 90.

Alright?

No I'm not *****ing or do I care what you get I don't think you realize the cost of a four stroke maybe you do I don't know its none of my business what you do and good luck to what you do. I prefer the 2 stroke over the four but that's my opinion which I state but no one has to listen.Like I say Good Luck to what ever you do and let your little sister have fun riding or racing on what you decide. That's the real fun is watching them race and come across the line 1st that's the sweet addiction I have for racing and to watch the smile on his face every race. So go have fun with what your going to build my best reguards. Toby

[ZSNOW]

well if i were to buy a decent 2 stroke what would i be looking at paying for a full race one? and what would i be paying to set it up and make it reliable? I have seen too many break, and thats when racing becomes no fun(for the kids).

Zack:p

[dazed&confused]

sounds to me you already have some good connection in place already . i do not know your sponsers ,but from what dbacks says about them i would start there first.

if you want to check around ,try and find one company and stay with them .

i know shawn at sms pretty good and he builds some really good stuff ,great guy i wouldn't hesitate to call him if you decide to veture out away from your sponsers.

tom at atv four play also has some really good stuff,his stuff is proven and really durable. jmo

[dazed&confused]

they all break ! thats all there is to it.
if you decide to buy a mini you can probably find one on this site this winter that has everything on it for 3-5000 dollars ,i have seen some really nice quads in the classifieds on this site in that range and that is a good deal if the motor is done up rite.

the main thing is to make sure the frame has all the proper gussets in place ,this is not done at the factory .

Your right Shawn at SMS is a great guy who knows his stuff.Shawn is helping us and I appericate every thing he's done for us. He's one heck of a guy. He will only steer you in the right direction promise. Thanks again Shawn with SMS.

[etondaddy]

Hey zsnow pm your phone number if you like and I'll tell yea what I know about buiding a four stroke I just built one last year.



Mike Kozura

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/etondaddy/Proof_KK-layout2copy.jpg

[mxdad423]

Ok I just couldn't stay away, LOL.....Here's my opinion, it doesn't mean much but here goes.
I preferr the 2 strokes in the mini class, you can get them to run much better for less money, not saying that the 4 strokes don't run good, they do I have seen some really fast ones, but you can do the 2 strokes much cheaper, and as far as reliablility, just like anything else, if you do your maintainence you will be OK.
Now everybody on here has their favorites on engine builders, most stick with who treats them right and does great work. Here's mine, for the 2 strokes, Billy Holt at WRH Racing is the way to go, He did our engine and I am EXTREMELY satisfied, it has AWSOME power all the way around, and just plain rips,and Billy is one h*ll of a great guy to deal with, I don't care what time of the day it is, if you have any questions he is always there to answer them, A++++++++++++++++ service is what you get.
As far as what to buy, the 2 favorites out there are the DRR and the Apex, If my son wouldn't love his Kasea so much we would of went with the DRR, but there was no tearing him away from the Kasea, but that was OK, we have everything that the DRR's and Apex's have, just took some great work from Dave Carter at DC Motorsports to get it that way.
whch brings me to my next opinion, if you go with a DRR or Apex, Give Dave Carter a call for the suspension, his Long Travel A-arms and Swing arms are in my opinion the best on these mini's, we have been running DC stuff for 5 years and have NEVER ONCE had a complaint, never a flaw or a break, Quality work and parts, and Dave will treat you right, he treats my son like he is his own.
Here are a few pics of our Kasea, this will give you an idea of what Dave's suspension componets are like and what you can make one of the machine's into.
I hope this helps you out in getting your sister on the track on a good reliable machine, if you ever have any question's just give me a shout, thats the great thing about this sport there is always someone willing to help out, and there are many of knowledgable people on this board.

Kevin Smitley

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa153/mxdad0423/finished20093.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa153/mxdad0423/finished20092.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa153/mxdad0423/finished20094.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa153/mxdad0423/SleepyHollow12009resized.jpg

[etondaddy]

I see you figured out Photobucket.....it beats posting four different times. And Photobucket re-sizes them to 600x800 for you for perfect Internet viewing.


Mike Kozura

[ZSNOW]

That Kasea looks REALLY nice! I bet he loves it more now than he did before:)


Im looking at buying an Apex that someone has already built and it has been raced in neatv. dblacks your mailbox is full

[mxdad423]

I knew about photobucket before but was always just been to lazy to use it, LOL.....

Hope the Apex works out for you, like I said if you ever need anything just give a shout.

Kevin Smitley

[etondaddy]

Cool beans.......you going to High Point...??



Mike Kozura

[mxdad423]

No we are going out to Fly, 2 day race, 6 laps practice, 2 moto's of 6 laps each day, 40.00 in entry for the whole weekend, if we go to High point, we will be lucky to get the whole track, lucky to get 2 or 3 laps of practice, and 3 laps of 2 moto's and have 35.00 in entry, so we are heading to Fly. If we would be running the GCS series we would go to High Point but we missed to many at the begining so we will go with the more seat time this weekend.

Kevin Smitley

[dblacks]

mailbox is empty now

[Ryko racing]

give hetricks a call. Brandy Cottage has a beautiful ready to go Honda with all the best components on it and they keep it in great shape.

It is a great bike.