new crank help

[the dude]

I order what I thought to be a new '89 crank from service honda... part number on the box is 13300-HB9-770.. but the shop assembling my motor says that the crank is totally different than what was in there and won't work??

apparently the the left side journal is too small, there is a gap between the seal and the crank. the crank that was pulled out has a stepped journal. Also the thread don't stick out far enough to get the stator and flywheel on??

What could be going on here? there is only one crank available from honda right, the 87-89? My cases are what I thought to be '86, they looked to be mismatched tho, some of the casting edges dont line up, but all the bolt holes do.

the crank he is comparing too is the hot rod's cranks he reomeved my when the cases were split.

I haven't been to the shop to see what he is talking about, but I figured I'd ask here first. Who better than ya'll to help me out!

Thanks

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I dont have the part number in my head for the TRX crank, but what your saying, sounds like you've ended up with a CR crank.

A CR250R crank will look justy about like the TRX crank except the left side that the flywheel bolts to is shorter & smaller.

What you said about the crank you have being smaller around the seal area, I dont understand unless for some reason the crank webs were missmatched or something.
A TRX250R & CR250R crank look & will measure the same except the CR crank very end on the left side where the flywheel goes it is just a bit shorter & smaller.
Area where the seal touches & where the bearings fit are the same TRX or CR. Same size bearings are used on the CR or the TRX engine so that area on either one should be the same.
Neil

[86 Quad R]

thats weird............ :confused: the number you posted is infact a part number for a 88-89 trx crank. as neil stated, the CR250 and TRX cranks(and even the cr500) share the same main journal sizes. is there any way you could post up a picture of it? :cool:

[the dude]

hmm, interesting. Well, the crank cam wrapped in newspaper, thrown in a box, so it could be a mix up?

And he said the journal where the seal meets is too small, maybe they sent me the wrong seal?

I might go stop by and see what is going on, get an idea for myself.

Looks like i'll be renting the 08 LTR 450 for riding the cinders this weekend, instead of breaking in this new ESR 330PV..

[Dave83]

You need to go back to whoever you bought that crank from.I just installed my new crank from Honda and it wasnt wrapped in newspaper.Honda seals their stuff in plastic bags.

[norcalduner]

Originally posted by Dave83
You need to go back to whoever you bought that crank from.I just installed my new crank from Honda and it wasnt wrapped in newspaper.Honda seals their stuff in plastic bags.

Yup, I just recently ordered mine too and it did come sealed in a plastic bag.

[rustyATV]

Originally posted by norcalduner
Yup, I just recently ordered mine too and it did come sealed in a plastic bag.

+1

[the dude]

came from service honda (or extreme motorsports?).... called them, and its been more than 30 days since my order (4/27), so they told me im s.o.l.

I'm going to try a few other of the phone numbers listed on my order forms and receipt, and give them hell tho.. They did leave like 3 seals off my original order, just didn't even input them. I did get that squared away already tho.

[Dave83]

It didnt come from Service like that.This Extreme Motorsports would get that thing back thru their window if that was the kind of service they gave me.You got a link to them?

[the dude]

Actually don't know where the number from Extreme came from, but they and Service Honda are owned by the same company. My parts came from Service Honda, and yes, it DID come from Service Honda that way. Dude I talked to said they don't all come sealed in packages.

Either way, their return policy is 10 days, mine's been sitting on a shelf for two months while I was collecting parts..

But, they are going to try and work out a "warranty" replacement for me I guess. I need to return the crank, they will send it to Honda with the complaint and they will use the engine and vin#'s to verify. I am also lining up this crank with my old one side by side to compare the differences.

The kicker is that it has to be in the original box, so hopefully the shop didn't throw it out!

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Your getting the run around from that shop, because somethings not right.
I've gotten bunches of OEM Honda 250R cranks & a Honda OEM crank will be packaged in a special made cardboard box with incerts on the inside to hold it in place so it cant move around, + then it will be inside a plastic bag to keep the moisture out & the box stapled shut.

Did you see the shop take it out of that Honda box.

What has happened here would just about make one want to throw it through their window, but I wouldnt go that far.

What you need to do is return it yourself to the parts manager himself & then let him know that if nothing is done about it in short order, there will be alot of people let known about the shop & their actions by way of the computer of how you are being treated.
Service Honda or who ever owns either of those businesses cant afford for that to happen, not if they intend to stay in business.
Neil

[the dude]

I would go down there and raise hell, but I ordered off of servicehonda.com and they are in IN and i'm in AZ...

The parts came directly to my house and I opened them up. The crank was wrapped in newspaper, and place in a 8x8x8 or so cardboard box, and the remaining space was stuffed with balled up newspaper. It seemed questionable to me at the time, but I had nothing to compare this crank to, and this one just sat in the box.

I went to my shop that is assembling the motor to check out the differences, they are:

-the rod is about 10-ish mm too short
-the right side splines are about 3/8in shorter
-the left side threads end where the threaded area ends on the correct crank

So i don't know what crank this is?

[Dave83]

Im thinking what Neil is saying is,do you know the shop doing your engine well enough to trust that they didnt mix up a different crank with yours?.As he said,mine came in a box that was made for the crank and sealed in a plastic bag.Service Honda parts have never said anything about Extreme on them when I have ordered.Who did you deal with at Service?

[deathman53]

Everything I have ordered from service honda came in honda boxes and sealed backs. Something is wrong.

[norcalduner]

Here is a pic of mine when it came in. Hope this helps you sort things out.

[the dude]

Yes, something is very wrong. That is the same box mine came in, just no sealed bag.

I guess we'll see how this "warranty" thing works out..

If not, I have a plan..


And yes, I trust my buddy and his shop. I brought all the parts in and he started working on it that night.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I wish you could post a pic of what you got.

After reading all this, sure looks like the parts place is trying to pull one over on you, but then again, it could be that clown working behind the counter is new & didnt know the difference between a water pump gasket & a seal, so knowing anything about a crank, its a wonder you even got a crank.
I the end, you'll probably find out was a dufas on the other end mucked up & in a hurry to go eat pizza with his buddys.
Neil

[the dude]

I will post some pics of the crank I recieved and my hot rods crank side-by-side, when the cases get split and I go pick up the crank. Hopefully today. (plus they want me to send these pics, to show the differences...)

I don't think I can fault whomever put the order together; as it was in the proper box, with the proper part #. I even think it was stapled shut, but that was too long ago.

It's a long shot, but maybe someone might have pulled one over on them at one point; returning a different crank and keeping the new 250R one, for free. Hmmmm....

As far as Service Honda... I am dealing with a fella named Pooh. Who, after every question I asked, would put me on hold for 5 minutes so he could go talk to his manager. When I called him back later in the afternoon (he was gone for the day) I talked to someone else who knew my whole story. So I guess the whole parts dept over there knows whats going on...

[atvmxr]

Originally posted by the dude
.. I am dealing with a fella named Pooh. When I called him back later in the afternoon (he was gone for the day)

must have been going to meet tigger or piglet in the hundred acre woods...

HA, sorry couldnt help myself :D

[the dude]

LOL I know, I laughed when he said his name! He said email me at pooh @ yada yada, and I said"like winnie the pooh?"

Anyways, they need a full engine number to send to Honda to verify along with the VIN that this is in fact a TRX250R. the only number I have on my case is a TB063??

[the dude]

Ok here are some pics

http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/n432/thedude250r/crankshaft/

You can see the differences, and note the minor surface rust that comes with a crank not sealed in a little bag.

I also now have the vin/engine number of a 1985 atc 250r, the 1985 would use this crank also, correct? They have the vin to my 86 trx and the engine number of an 85 atc...

I was wrong, my box did not come with staples, it was paper taped shut.

Anyway, I'm packing this up in a few minutes and shipping it back to Service and going to email Pooh these pics, so we can get me a new crank.

On a side note.. I might have irritated (not really) my buddy who owns the shop. He didn't want to split the cases until I had a new crank, but obviously that isn't an option, so i walked into the back and split them myself and walked out with the crank lol!

Hopefully this all works out, especially since the price for the crank jumped to $428.91 , from the $292.52 I paid in April... $351.71 @ hondapartshouse.com as well.

[DEERCHOOPER]

service honda shows the crank @ $178

that sucks any way you look at it.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

New one is a CR250R crank, dont know the year you have though.

A CR crank is narrower than a TRX because the cases of a CR250R engine are narrow.
The flywheel side of a CR crank is whats different from a TRX one, but the clutch side, you will find is machined just about the same as a TRX.
What you cant see on the inside of that pressed on tin is where the difference is in the CR crank. The CR clutch side is heavier than a TRX clutch side & the CR clutch side is more balanced than the TRX, but all of that is on the inside of that tin.
Just looking at the two clutch sides, the only difference you will see is the CR half wont have the little dot on the end to line up with the TRX balancer gear.
Neil

[Dave83]

They are still 293.00 and some change.They have not updated their prices since the 178 was posted along time ago and the 400+ price is list.I bought mine about a month ago and it was 293 and some change,right at 300.00.

[the dude]

ahh, list price.. duh!

Thanks Neil!

[the dude]

This is the email I received last week..

Hi Andy,

We ordered and inspected a new crank for you. There is a difference between the one we originally shipped you and the one we reordered to replace it. Since I cannot do an warranty with the manufacturer due to the fact that you do not have a matching VIN and engine # for 87 TRX250R (the infor for the ATC will not work either), the way that we worked it is you will get the old box back with the new part inside. All the packing that came in with the new part will be used to send back to Honda the original one that we sent you. We will file a quality issue on that one.

Basically we are pretending the the one you sent back is the one that we received today. Otherwise we would not be able to resolve this issue.

Just wanted to let you know since the crank will not be in a sealed bag and will be in the old box that you sent back to us. The new part did come in a sealed Honda bag with packing etc. We will be shipping the replacement piece out today.

Thank you,

Parts Manager


Then today...
I received what appears to be a brand new 87-98 trx crank IN a sealed bag, no part numbers tho... and they repackaged it in the same box I sent back.. Either way, its done. the engine is being assembled, and hopefully I'll be happy. Thanks again guys!