me vs. cops...should I fight it?

[Warnerade]

Well...tonight I this girl I met went to a party and invited me...so me and my buddy decided to go. I get there, being one of the few overage and sober ones there...withing 15 minutes of being there the cops bust in breaking the party up. My buddy is a big smart *** (way worse than me) and he was giving the cops ****...making remarks, and before it got too out of hand I tried talking to the cop to explain that hes a jackass sober, but even worse when hes drunk. The cop turned around as soon as I said "excuse me officer"...told me to get the f*** out of his face and off the property, and instantly pushed me into the driveway. My instant response was "god I wish someone here had a camera for that one", which I was replied with a "shut the hell up you punk kid". I called my buddy and he followed me into the road. At the same time the girl I know was walking out...we walked to the street, I was trying to make sure she and her friend had a ride home...she saw the cop push me and asked what happened. As I was explaining how the "fat ***" cop pushed me into the driveway and I told her about my camera response. The cop walked up behind me and slapped the cuffs on me before I even knew wtf was going on. I asked the charges, he said "failure to disperse the property after being told, and you really think I'm gonna let you talk **** about me and not do anything about it?" (keep in mind I was across the street on the other sidewalk, I dispersed the property quickly after being pushed.)

In the cop car the cop instantly says I'm a punk *** kid that needs to be taught a lesson, and its not just him power tripping (kinda like after someone cheats on their gf and they get paranoid and say they aren't cheating every other day)...I tried being respectful (yes, believe it or not when my *** is on the line I actually act mature), but he wouldn't even listen. I tried explaining that I was making sure my friends had a ride home safe because I didn't want them drinking and driving...he said thats their job, not mine.

so....my court date is next Friday, should I go with my gut instinct and plead not guilty and fill the court with the witnesses to me being pushed? or should I just tuck my tail between my legs and pay my fine after court.

[feuerstack411]

sounds like the cop was a grade A douche.
I would plead not guilty, but it might not even be worth the hassle if you just get slapped with a small fine.

[Pappy]

Tough call.

If it involves something being put on your record then I would have a lawyer and go to court. No matter how you try to explain it, you will more then likely be percieved as just another punk with a mouth.

Since you did not follow up the pushing incident with a documented report to the police officers supervisor, I doubt you have much ground to stand on. It will be your word against his even if you drag witnesses in to court. The judge probably wont even want to hear from any witnesses.

If you feel your rights have been violated, immediate action on your part will go along way with how the incident is percieved if indeed it ends up in court. All the officer has to say is that you failed to comply with a direct order in a situation that could have put the officer at risk and the "push" was merely a way of forcing you to keep a safe distance or that you put the officer in a position to forceably keep you a safe distance from him by not obeying the order. Either way, it would be a hard sell even if the officer was 100% in the wrong. Most of us could understand pushing someone away for the reason of maintaining a safety zone around us in a crowd situation. The officer could also state that you were handcuffed for the sake of his safety and thats a slam dunk win for the officer and would more then likley put the doubt on your shoulders versus any immplied wrong doing on the LEO's part.


Sounds to me like you wil end up paying a fine no matter which way you go.

[blacknblue#2]

Depending on the fine and the seriousness of the charge on your record i think i would pay the fine and put it behind me as a story and lesson learned. Not that i am proud to say but i have been in quite a bit of trouble. I come to realize its your word against theres and your basically protesting to THEIR co-workers. I had a similar incident happen at thanksgiving. I was out at the bars for the yearly night-before-thanksgiving parties. Come out on the street at last call and tried to get one of my buddies in the car so we could go home (he was arguing with someone). The cop walked up and told me to get the F out of his way and let him do his job. Drunk me told him i was doing his job because obviously he was too scared to 2 minutes earlier. The conversation ended in me tellin him his fat a** head grew 6 inches in diameter behind that badge and next thing i knew i was in the car. Got released from jail on thanksgiving morning at 8am, had a 300 dollar fine and a story to make my buddies laugh about still today. It woulda cost me more than that in a lawyer and woulda still got a fine so i took it as a learning experience.

[smr]

well did you learn your leason? J/k.....:D

Not trying to take the cop's side but normally when they are aproached they react as if it's a threat. The best thing to do when the cops raid a place is keep your mouth shut and move away as smoothly as you can. They always get the one that runs there mouth and I always make sure that isn't me.

I know your was trying to help your buddy by talking to the cop but drunk or sober....it's his problem. Drunk is no excuse for anything.

Next time stay away from the cop. Leason learned.

btw.....Not often I will say this but, I agree with pappy. Unless your filed a complaint the judge will not even want to hear about the pushing. If your gonna fight it then get a lawyer.

[deathman53]

find out what the charge involves. If its something serious and leaves a mark on your "record", get a lawyer. Either way, plead not guilty and explain the whole thing to the court. I just thought of something, Did he read you your rights???? If he didn't, the charges won't stick no matter what. It sounds alot like a cop trying to be a bigger man than whom he/she is, but his/her buddies are gonna stick-up for him/her.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by deathman53
Did he read you your rights???? If he didn't, the charges won't stick no matter what. It sounds alot like a cop trying to be a bigger man than whom he/she is, but his/her buddies are gonna stick-up for him/her.

He doesnt have to read you your rights, even when he cuffed him. He wasn't being placed under arrest. A lawyer could argue unlawful detention but it wont go anywhere


Now there are other issues IF everything stated here from Shawn is 110% factual. The officer doesn't have the right to remove people from private property without consent from the property owner as long as the activity is legal. If people are legally allowed to be on the property, he has zero right to order them to leave...he can ask....he can arrest (but would have to have a bonafide charge to make it stick) and he can inform the property owner that the party needs to be shut down or quieted down etc. This is where a lawyer (as much as I hate them) comes into play.

[Warnerade]

its not a serious charge, but it will go on my record...so far the only thing ever on my record is speeding tickets...and I plan to keep it that way. Just talked to my parents....time to lawyer up

[scuzz]

Yeah, lawyer time.

Excellent.

[treake]

If you are getting an attorney, he will advise you of the best thing to do and will look into if your miranda rights were violated. Even if you decide to not get an attorney, you should appear at your court date, plead not guilty and give your side of the story. You should take your witnesses. If there is not enough time to gather the information or witnesses you need, then you should see if you can postpone the court date. If you already know what the fine will be, then you know the maximum your going to pay even if you appear and not win your case. So it would be worth it to see if you can get it dropped or reduced because you don't want something like this on your record, no matter how minor it sounds.

[fastredrider44]

With the lawyer's help, I would plead not guilty, but not be too worried about the pushing thing. If you can leave the court room with nothing on your record, consider it a win, even if you have to pay court costs.

[250rAL]

I wouldn't even mention the push. He had a right to do that. The key thing is that you were arrested for not leaving when you were already across the street. How can he say you didn't leave?I doubt he will even show up for court and it will just be dismissed.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
With the lawyer's help, I would plead not guilty, but not be too worried about the pushing thing. If you can leave the court room with nothing on your record, consider it a win, even if you have to pay court costs. id rather pay 5x as much in court costs than pay this ridiculous fine

[jcv400ex]

Yeah, i'd def fight that one.

[ridered11]

Haha people crack me up. You're wasting your time and money with a lawyer.

I've gotten citations before for blowing a .00. But theres no point in fighting it, you'd be spending more money on lawyers than the fine itself.

I bet you wont be calling any cops names to their face any time soon...

[FHKracingZ]

F*** that cop, fight him and make him look like the idiot he is..

And by the way if you win you will not have to pay any court cost. Those will be absolved by the court.

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by Warnerade
id rather pay 5x as much in court costs than pay this ridiculous fine

Yeah but it gets old. I just got my 7th speeding ticket. Dag gum its a drag to pay court costs on a prepayable fine. 143 for court costs and 38 for the ticket. That's not right.

[csr250r]

I would fight it, next time you are in a tough situation at least it wont be on your record.

I would not mention the push if you dont have solid evidence of it. Your friends saying they saw it prolly wont get you anywhere.

Yet another example of power tripping cops that retaliate at the world because they were made fun of in high school. :ermm:

[madskrillz2]

Do I smell bacon somewhere?

[smr]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
Yeah but it gets old. I just got my 7th speeding ticket. Dag gum its a drag to pay court costs on a prepayable fine. 143 for court costs and 38 for the ticket. That's not right.

lmao.....you ever think that if maybe you slow down you want get a ticket.....:D

[quad2xtreme]

I knew eventually this would come around...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385537&perpage=13&pagenumber=4

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I knew eventually this would come around...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385537&perpage=13&pagenumber=4 i didnt kick a shoe at him, or whatever the hell that shick did...nice try though I suppose

[quad2xtreme]

my first thought is just to go and plead guilty that you didn't immediately leave because you were trying to provide information to the officer. Leave the pushing out of it.

You may also look into getting off on a technicality. I assume this party wasn't being held on public properly. That law may only pertain to public property.

Cops are getting a bad rap because the profession has "changed" quite a bit from years ago. More and more bad apples are working into the police force all over the country. You just happened to be the lastest to get stung. Sort if like thinking unemployed people are just too lazy to find work until you find yourself out of a job.

Good Luck. I was only 1/2 way trying to be an ***. LOL!

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by smr
lmao.....you ever think that if maybe you slow down you want get a ticket.....:D

That's no fun though. Gotta give them something to do. :o

[soonerdude77]

Originally posted by smr
lmao.....you ever think that if maybe you slow down you want get a ticket.....:D

I don't think he knows what slow down means.

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by soonerdude77
I don't think he knows what slow down means.

That's what makes it fun to ride with me right? Haha

[JR3]

you cant win no matter what its your word against a cops. who is a judge gonna believe a kid who the cop said was being a wise *** or the cop. u can drag all the witnesses you want what if the cop brings another cop that was there as a witness to say that he didnt push you. your effed no matter what dude thats just the way it goes save yourself the time money and aggrivation of trying to fight it. but if u do fight it i wish ya the best of luck let us know how it goes.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Pappy
He doesnt have to read you your rights, even when he cuffed him. He wasn't being placed under arrest. A lawyer could argue unlawful detention but it wont go anywhere


If he was cuffed and has a court date he was charged with something... He should have had his rights read when he was cuffed...


I would fight it.. The worst thing that could happen is that you lose with your lawyer and you pay the fine anyway... The best thing is if you win it's off your record and dismissed... I would fight it...


James

[OutlawEX]

U need to pick you hang out with wisely. Guess ur mouth was prettier than ur buddies:D

[Pappy]

Originally posted by JForestZ34
If he was cuffed and has a court date he was charged with something... He should have had his rights read when he was cuffed...



An officer does not have to read you your miranda rights if he has you detained. Especially when he is detaining the person for not complying with a lawful order.

I would have to geuss that by Shawns own telling of the story that teh officer heard and saw him telling others and was going to make a point, thus the handcuffs and a seat in the backseat while he filled out the ticket.

Now Shawn could have asked the officer if he was under arrest...and if the officer statded no, then he could have asked for the cuffs to be removed. This could go two ways...the officer keeps him in cuffs under the principle of making sure he was in no way harmful to the officer. This is where a lawyer will be helpful, because if he wasnt a threat then why the cuffs? I suspect the officer will say for his safety and I can buy that, even if he was making an example out of Shawn.

I've stated before, be respectful, know your rights and do not argue with the law. Shawn will now face a judge and have to explain why his mouth caused him to get charged. You have to pick your battles wisely...and at a party isn't the best platform.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Pappy
An officer does not have to read you your miranda rights if he has you detained. Especially when he is detaining the person for not complying with a lawful order.

I would have to geuss that by Shawns own telling of the story that teh officer heard and saw him telling others and was going to make a point, thus the handcuffs and a seat in the backseat while he filled out the ticket.

Now Shawn could have asked the officer if he was under arrest...and if the officer statded no, then he could have asked for the cuffs to be removed. This could go two ways...the officer keeps him in cuffs under the principle of making sure he was in no way harmful to the officer. This is where a lawyer will be helpful, because if he wasnt a threat then why the cuffs? I suspect the officer will say for his safety and I can buy that, even if he was making an example out of Shawn.

I've stated before, be respectful, know your rights and do not argue with the law. Shawn will now face a judge and have to explain why his mouth caused him to get charged. You have to pick your battles wisely...and at a party isn't the best platform.

This is true, and until I read this I didn't even think of it.. I do see your point...


James

[03pete]

man that sucks bro. What city were the cops? Im from toledo too

[buck440]

if you were still fairly close then i say sol even though he said off the property...wrong place wrong time:(

[extremeblastr]

i don't understand how shawn can be at fault for anything? he made a smartass remark to the cop at the time of being shoved but let it go and removed himself from the property as ordered. i see no loophole where after removing himself from the property and attempting to sort things out to get everyone home safely the officer has a right to cuff him, there is no evidence of a physical threat what so ever. obviously i wasn't there and there could be more to the story but with the information given at the time of the cuffing shaw was completely in the right and this shouldn't have reached the point that it has.


stuff like this happens far to often. i understand that officers demand respect, but they should be professional enough to answer simple questions and what not. i know every cop i've ever met has been willing to work the situation out as long as your calm and not causing more issues for him...

[buck440]

idk if anyone said this but say if they let it go you'll let the pushing incident go and if not, get info about the cop and make it personal.

[madskrillz2]

Just find out where he lives and dump abunch of pork in his front yard. :D

EDIT: Pork that's not worth eating lol. Feet, tails, etc.

[Quad18star]

I've learned that running your mouth usually only gets you in trouble. A few years back I got a little tipsy and verbal after we ( me and friends) got kicked out of a cottage at like 4am because someone on the street threw a bottle through the front window of the cottage . We were at a big wakeboarding competition where about 50 000 people showed up. Anyways . I got into it with the owner of the place .. at first I tried explaining what happened and he wouldn't listen ... then the shouting started ... then the cops showed up and I continued to shout at the guy while a cop was between us. I was apparently given a few warnings , so my friends say, before two cops had me with my hands cuffed. They apparently told me to shut up but I hadn't listenend... they cuffed me for what the officers said was their protection.

They let me go with a warning and told us to pack up our stuff and get off the property. I told them none of us were sober enough to drive ... they said just pack your chit , get in your car and leave. :huh I'm sure I could have questioned them or their superiors about their decision to send us off knowing we weren't legal to drive ... but we hightailed it out of there before one of us got arrested. I did manage to get the cop's badge number that told us to leave just in case something were to happen on the way out.

[honduh440]

i didnt read all the post so dont know if its been covered or not but your lucky you didnt get arrested for being at a party with underage drinkers...

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by 03pete
man that sucks bro. What city were the cops? Im from toledo too ottawa hills cops...you know, the same place where a cop shot a guy on a bike after pulling him over for speeding because he was reaching for his wallet and the cop "thought" it was a gun. The guy is now paralyzed...Stay out of ottawa hills, you can get pulled over just for looking cool.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by honduh440
i didnt read all the post so dont know if its been covered or not but your lucky you didnt get arrested for being at a party with underage drinkers... ya, I sure am lucky I got off easy huh?

[tim colston]

Originally posted by Warnerade
Well...tonight I this girl I met went to a party and invited me...so me and my buddy decided to go. I get there, being one of the few overage and sober ones there...withing 15 minutes of being there the cops bust in breaking the party up. My buddy is a big smart *** (way worse than me) and he was giving the cops ****...making remarks, and before it got too out of hand I tried talking to the cop to explain that hes a jackass sober, but even worse when hes drunk. The cop turned around as soon as I said "excuse me officer"...told me to get the f*** out of his face and off the property, and instantly pushed me into the driveway. My instant response was "god I wish someone here had a camera for that one", which I was replied with a "shut the hell up you punk kid". I called my buddy and he followed me into the road. At the same time the girl I know was walking out...we walked to the street, I was trying to make sure she and her friend had a ride home...she saw the cop push me and asked what happened. As I was explaining how the "fat ***" cop pushed me into the driveway and I told her about my camera response. The cop walked up behind me and slapped the cuffs on me before I even knew wtf was going on. I asked the charges, he said "failure to disperse the property after being told, and you really think I'm gonna let you talk **** about me and not do anything about it?" (keep in mind I was across the street on the other sidewalk, I dispersed the property quickly after being pushed.)

In the cop car the cop instantly says I'm a punk *** kid that needs to be taught a lesson, and its not just him power tripping (kinda like after someone cheats on their gf and they get paranoid and say they aren't cheating every other day)...I tried being respectful (yes, believe it or not when my *** is on the line I actually act mature), but he wouldn't even listen. I tried explaining that I was making sure my friends had a ride home safe because I didn't want them drinking and driving...he said thats their job, not mine.

so....my court date is next Friday, should I go with my gut instinct and plead not guilty and fill the court with the witnesses to me being pushed? or should I just tuck my tail between my legs and pay my fine after court.

I have had my share of legal issues, a few years back and what I can tell you is you do have the right to postpone you original court date and dont' get a lawyer yet, get a public defender (free), and see if he shows up after 3 postponenments, if not "not guilty" charges dropped. If so than plead not guilty then lawyer up. I had many of issues in college at The university of Toldeo, so i kinda know a little bit about the legal system up there. Good luck but I feel you have nothing to worry about. maybe a little cash.

[03pete]

Originally posted by Warnerade
ottawa hills cops...you know, the same place where a cop shot a guy on a bike after pulling him over for speeding because he was reaching for his wallet and the cop "thought" it was a gun. The guy is now paralyzed...Stay out of ottawa hills, you can get pulled over just for looking cool.

Driving through ottawa hills is a bad idea. people get pulled over for going 26 in a 25. actually the entire city is only 25MPH. also, wasnt there like 2 standoffs there like a month ago? The cops there are stuck up *******s. I would never go to a party in that city, your just bound to get caught.

[SRH]

Originally posted by Warnerade
Well...tonight I this girl I met went to a party and invited me...so me and my buddy decided to go. I get there, being one of the few overage and sober ones there...withing 15 minutes of being there the cops bust in breaking the party up. My buddy is a big smart *** (way worse than me) and he was giving the cops ****...making remarks, and before it got too out of hand I tried talking to the cop to explain that hes a jackass sober, but even worse when hes drunk. The cop turned around as soon as I said "excuse me officer"...told me to get the f*** out of his face and off the property, and instantly pushed me into the driveway. My instant response was "god I wish someone here had a camera for that one", which I was replied with a "shut the hell up you punk kid". I called my buddy and he followed me into the road. At the same time the girl I know was walking out...we walked to the street, I was trying to make sure she and her friend had a ride home...she saw the cop push me and asked what happened. As I was explaining how the "fat ***" cop pushed me into the driveway and I told her about my camera response. The cop walked up behind me and slapped the cuffs on me before I even knew wtf was going on. I asked the charges, he said "failure to disperse the property after being told, and you really think I'm gonna let you talk **** about me and not do anything about it?" (keep in mind I was across the street on the other sidewalk, I dispersed the property quickly after being pushed.)

In the cop car the cop instantly says I'm a punk *** kid that needs to be taught a lesson, and its not just him power tripping (kinda like after someone cheats on their gf and they get paranoid and say they aren't cheating every other day)...I tried being respectful (yes, believe it or not when my *** is on the line I actually act mature), but he wouldn't even listen. I tried explaining that I was making sure my friends had a ride home safe because I didn't want them drinking and driving...he said thats their job, not mine.

so....my court date is next Friday, should I go with my gut instinct and plead not guilty and fill the court with the witnesses to me being pushed? or should I just tuck my tail between my legs and pay my fine after court.

the cop was a douche bag but what are you gonna do, if you didnt say anything and left you wouldnt be in trouble, take it as a lesson learned... i guess, you probably knew the cop would hear you say fat ***....well they can arrest you for anything and knowing how the cop was to begin with you shouldnt of said anything

I would fight the ticket for failure to disperse , if you can prove you were no longer on the property at the time of arrest.
do not bring up the cops attitude or anything said
be professional, draw out a diagram with the property lines of where you were and what not, and prove that one fact and the charge shoudl get thrown out or reduced, the cop power tripping is completely irrelevant to the ticket. the shove ..dont mention that it will only make you look bad, dont bring up why the cop came across the street either YOU never called the cop a fat *** you were minding your business and were cuffed on your way to your car...id say that ticket will get thrown out , ive never heard of any such thing, especially if you had permission to be on the property , they cant force you to leave as far as i know if its private property, if he was smart he would of got you with disorderly conduct and youd have no defense, however i do feel you will be guilty to some degree just because you were attending a party with underage drinking and they want to generate some income for the state/county

[blastergirl]

i hate to say it, but if you go to court you will lose... it'll probably be argued the officer gave you a lawful order to leave the area and instead you elected to stay in the area stirring up the crowd and in doing so put the officers and/or the general public at risk of injury...

regardless of what you and everyone else thinks, you're lucky you weren't held for supplying liquor to minors, even if you did show up to the party late... count your blessings the officer didn't choose that route and be glad he charged you with what is a minor slap on the wrist...

make sure you talk to an attorney and then follow his advise, but I'll bet he tells you to just pay the fine...