50 cases are not aloud in 90 class atva ????

[turbo appex]

if you have a 90 it hast to have 90 cases RIGHT ??? i just want to know if i need to bring some extra money to N.Y. thanks guys . see ya there

[Logan #34's Dad]

I believe so! When I spoke to "the boss" over my "issue" at Illinois, I was told I could not swap motors between motos because if it the quad is run in a 70 class it had to be a 70 based motor. If it is run in a 90 class it had to be a 90 based motor. NOW, I'm sure that someone that drives a big white truck with a big white trailer and can impose their will on a AMA-ATV, will get what they want. (Or just let the official use their pit vehicles) Politics are unbelievible. Thus the WPSA was started!:devil:

[bulldogfallon]

What's the big issue here?

It takes a lot work to make the 50 case work on this kit.

The 90 case works with a lot less effort and if you took the money used to make the 50 case work you could stuff the 90 case?

Why not let the riders sort it out instead of nit picking here and threatening tear downs??

No wonder the officials get a headache from the mini quad classes.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Gary, when people start nit-picking the rules this is the things that are bound to happen. When the AMA-ATV want to be black and white with NO gray area then this is the mess THEY create. They set the rules and want them followed to a tee then the rules should be followed to a tee. IMHO.

[bulldogfallon]

I agree the rules should be followed, but it seems that there are too many headaches with the mini quad classes at times.

Maybe one day it will be easier to participate and enjoy the sport.


You know how it works....If your kid works hard and wins...guess what? They must be cheating....

Then they get torn down and their legal and your still cheating :)


Tee ball at it's finest ....

[Logan #34's Dad]

Maybe one day it will be easier to participate and enjoy the sport. [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree, let them race.

We entered the 70SS class on our DRR this weekend (after Stephani said we could - in writing) and you would have thought we we trying to run a 250 in it. There were only a couple people that had an issue (and I understand their arguement) but after it was all said and done - Logan could not keep up with the lead group anyhow. I was NOT trying to offend anyone, I just want laps for my son so he can get better.

[hotquads1]

Originally posted by turbo appex
if you have a 90 it hast to have 90 cases RIGHT ??? i just want to know if i need to bring some extra money to N.Y. thanks guys . see ya there
.

. In the Apex line, is there a way to differintiate the 70 case from the 90 case ? I thought they were the same case. I know the DRR is different .

[ward27]

how do you know that this guy in question isnt runing a 50/70 chassis?????????? have you seen his title. because if he is than he is very legal. what ever happen to innocent until proven guilty
it must be a cop thing huh lol :devil: :devil:

[Logan #34's Dad]

According to the "boss" you cannot run a 50/70 chasis in the 90 class. NOW, there are no differance BUT once someone enters the 90 class with his quad it must stay inside those rules. Gotta love it!

[quadscrib]

Isnt the 90cc class "0-90cc"?

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by quadscrib
Isnt the 90cc class "0-90cc"?

Wow, what a concept! Ah no, it is 71 -90cc. Somewhere along the line someone with alot of pull wrote the class struture which is causing this whole problem. I believe there was once a time it was 0-90 but not anymore. I learned this the hard way. I think it should be 0-90 - If my "lil' 70 can outrun your "big" 90 then you'all need to go back to the drawing board. IMHO

[sdr]

It's all in the way you read the rule, it states ,1. Engines (Modified Classes)
a. All classes are considered modified unless stated
otherwise. Classification will be according to the
manufacturer’s piston displacement specification for
the make of ATV and/or engine. Motorcycles and
ATVs must use the crankcases of the production
motor. The use of sleeving, stroking or boring to
change displacement classes is allowed. The actual
displacement of a motor must be stamped on the side
of the cylinder or engine case. The displacement of
the ATV, motorcycle or minicycle may not exceed the
class limit. The frame with which a rider has qualified
may not be changed, though engines may be.

[quadscrib]

I think it should be 0-90 - If my "lil' 70 can outrun your "big" 90 then you'all need to go back to the drawing board. IMHO [/B][/QUOTE]

I sure do agree w/ that!

[quadscrib]

Originally posted by sdr
It's all in the way you read the rule, it states ,1. Engines (Modified Classes)
a. All classes are considered modified unless stated
otherwise. Classification will be according to the
manufacturer’s piston displacement specification for
the make of ATV and/or engine. Motorcycles and
ATVs must use the crankcases of the production
motor. The use of sleeving, stroking or boring to
change displacement classes is allowed. The actual
displacement of a motor must be stamped on the side
of the cylinder or engine case. The displacement of
the ATV, motorcycle or minicycle may not exceed the
class limit. The frame with which a rider has qualified
may not be changed, though engines may be.
Well this sounds to me (as w/ many rules) that there is some openness to interpretation..... but the "The actual
displacement of a motor must be stamped on the side
of the cylinder or engine case." is interesting to me.... stamped by the owner and stamped w/ the new displacement after "The use of sleeving, stroking or boring to
change displacement classes is allowed"?
Im glad that here locally were all too broke to pull "teardown" BS everytime a kid gets beat.

[mini racer #39]

Hmmmmm...

[mxdad423]

Ok here we go, I'm going to put my 2 cents in. I am not taking shots at anybody here so I hope nobody feels that way when I'm done.
The classes are clearly stated as 51 to 70 cc and 71 to 90 cc, there is no grey area there, some may like it some may not but to me that is about as clear as a rule as there is.
The 70's have always been a bit faster than the 90's, believe me I know, I can remember when Brandon and Kyle (etondaddy's son) were running 70's, we used to practice and gate with the 90's alot at our local races because there were only a couple of 70's, our 70's used to kill the 90's on the holeshots and strait aways and myself and Mike had a couple of differant parents say "you guys got to be cheating, there's no way a 70 should out run our 90's". Mike I know you will veify that, LOL.
That was 5 years ago when we was running the AC Mallossi cyl, now they make even faster kits for the 70's so do the math.
This is not a matter of a 70 out running a 90, it's a matter of ther rules, just like in any other motorsport they have engine size limitations, and this is what has to be followed no matter who likes it and who don't. It's kinda like trying to run a charger car in the super late model class, yea the charger car is a smaller hp car but you just can't do it because the rules say you can't.
Why was the rule put in place? I don't know and really don't care. As far as it beeing 0 to 90 at one time, I don't know, we have been racing for 6 or 7 years and ever since we started it has been 51 to 70 and 71 to 90.
When I build my son's machines, I build them to the rule structure of the class he is going to be running, thats why when he was running the 70 and the 90 we had 2 machines, a 70 and a 90, thats what the cc limits were so thats what we did.
This is another reason why we only race the 90cvt class, a bunch of people ask me at steel city, why don't you run him in this class or this class to, this is the reason why, the class is 90 cvt and that is what we have, so that is what we are going to run, this way there is no confusion. We all *****ed about getting our own class for the CVT's and they gave it to us, now we are going to stick them in other classes to, don't you think the people in those other classes like to have their own class to?
Like Gary said it's no wonder that the officals hate the mini parents, they give us what we want then we try to bend the rules that we ask for. Come on let's just let the kids have fun and race, I'm affraid if we keep up all this BS our kids may not have a place to race in the future, these promoters are only going to take so much from the parents, rightfully so.
I hope I didn't step on anybody's toes here but this is just my thoughts.
LETS JUST GO RACIN BOYS AND GIRLS..........OUR KIDS ARE THE FUTURE OF THIS SPORT, LETS NOT RUIN THAT.

Kevin Smitley

[STOCKRACING917]

We are crazy about these kids!! All of them. With that being said, consider this :

Maybe we should just take them all on a group trip to the amusement park. The kids whose parents have the most money can ride the most rides. The kids whose parents don't have as much to spare can ride lesser rides. At the end of the day, when we are all together, let's ask them which group had the most fun.

Pass the popcorn, please.

[jandjracing]

[i]
We entered the 70SS class on our DRR this weekend (after Stephani said we could - in writing) and you would have thought we we trying to run a 250 in it. There were only a couple people that had an issue (and I understand their arguement) but after it was all said and done - Logan could not keep up with the lead group anyhow. I was NOT trying to offend anyone, I just want laps for my son so he can get better. [/B]

I am interested in the reactions when a few of the 70ss with thier new belt drive kits enter the CVT class for additional track time. Hopefully it will all work out in the end also.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Does the cobra come from the factory that way? Listen Mr French, I was in no way trying to start anything there. I contacted the AMA and asked what else we could run our 70cvt in and she told me the 70SS class SO that's what I did. I cannot even imagine you guys have an issue with this. The cvt's ran from the cobras when they came out and that's why the class exists today. You make way more power and have a lot less weight and far better suspension, do we have an advantage? I want to see if we can run with the big dogs. Apparently we cannot but that is how you make a better rider - by riding with the fastest kids. Also, if the numbers don't come up in that class then it will die.

[jandjracing]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
Does the cobra come from the factory that way? Listen Mr French, I was in no way trying to start anything there. I contacted the AMA and asked what else we could run our 70cvt in and she told me the 70SS class SO that's what I did. I cannot even imagine you guys have an issue with this. The cvt's ran from the cobras when they came out and that's why the class exists today. You make way more power and have a lot less weight and far better suspension, do we have an advantage? I want to see if we can run with the big dogs. Apparently we cannot but that is how you make a better rider - by riding with the fastest kids. Also, if the numbers don't come up in that class then it will die.

First of all, don't jump on my ***. You are the one who entered a class you probably shouldn't have. Try the 70 modified which is open to all quads. There is where you will get to ride with the faster 70 riders. The 70 ss is just as specific as the 70 cvt. Your quad does not belong in a ss class just as mine does not belong in a cvt class. If you chose to run in a ss class, then I am sure there are several that will bolt on a belt kit and stay production legal. Bring your leter to NY. I am currious to read it say "ss". Also, with a mere 6 more entries total in 2009, I wouldn't exactly call the 70 cvt class flourishing either.

[Logan #34's Dad]

That's the problem with writing in this context there is no way to understand the writers tone. I'm not jumping your ***. But anyhow, you guys talked to Smitty who informed you that it was okay so I really don't need to show anyone anything but I gladly will. I'll try to post the email here if I can figure out how to because I'm not sure if we are going to NY. Why is this a big deal? We should not be able to keep up with you guys let the riders ride. As far as the numbers, if you guys would not be running your 50's in the class then how many would you have? And good luck with the whole bolt-on belt thing. If you think your power is down now, wait till you add a belt. Please Remember, I was only doing what I was told was legal to do by the AMA. I'm not trying to upset everyone, however, if you select few want to make it out to be something personal than I guess that's your right. Whatever.

WELL HERE YOU GO. I Hope this works.
And Mr. French, I'm done with this one. I don't want to create an enemy here. But if it's to late then o'well it is what it is.

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Flag this messageRE: 70CVT and 70SSThursday, May 7, 2009 12:05 PM
From: "Stephani McIntyre" <stephani@mxsports.com>Add sender to ContactsTo: rockynppd@yahoo.comCc: "'>'" <surftaz2003@yahoo.com>

Yes, it will be legal for that class.



_________



Stephani McIntyre | Series Administrator



122 Vista Del Rio Drive | Morgantown, WV 26508

e: stephani@mxsports.com

o: (304) 284-0101

f: (304) 284-0081



www.mxsports.com | www.mxsportsproracing.com | www.atvmotocross.com



From: Rocky Dusenberry [mailto:rockynppd@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 2:25 AM
To: Stephani
Subject: 70CVT and 70SS



Hello Stephani, I'm just sending you an e-mail to find out if you've had time to decide if a 70cc CVT is eligible to run in the 70 Single Speed class. I don't want to upset someone else if we enter it. I'm just looking for track time.


Thank You and again sorry for the "Drama" from Illinois race.


Rocky Dusenberry



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[quadscrib]

Though I have commented on these couple related threads (ONLY out of curiosity) I have to say that this sounds like one whiny B.I.T.C.H fest.....WTF?
I should just shut up but ANYONE who whines that someone entered a lesser machine is pathetic... what would you EVER be worried bout?
As far as racing goes. I always thought one of the biggest reasons for racing was to develop technology,improve, etc... not to give a bunch of parents who are living through their kids a bunch of hair splitting liberal "Im a lesser person if my kid loses" crap.
MONEY ALWAYS WINS!!!!!!! Thats how america works! (well for now). Someone has more money than you,here we have (had, before MR.O took office) every chance to go out ,get educated , and try to compete for Mr$$'s job and then compete dollor for dollor. Someone is always gonna have something better than you and me.
I would NVER cheat or will I tolerate someone cheating against me or my kid but if your case said "50" instead of "90" on it whoopty ****! Unless youre a total a hole I would NEVER protest you for it...a peice of aluminum did not beat me. Even if the rules say its not ok...its a technicality not an advantage.
thank god here locally us mini parents are mostly friends and even try to help each other, kids hang out together, we trade parts, etc.... This national crap just sounds embarrising to the sport and to me. THIS IS FOR YOU KIDS!!!! Oh and it supposed to be FUN!!!!!!

[neveready]

Originally posted by quadscrib
Though I have commented on these couple related threads (ONLY out of curiosity) I have to say that this sounds like one whiny B.I.T.C.H fest.....WTF?

As far as racing goes. I always thought one of the biggest reasons for racing was to develop technology,improve, etc... not to give a bunch of parents who are living through their kids a bunch of hair splitting liberal "Im a lesser person if my kid loses" crap.

I would NVER cheat or will I tolerate someone cheating against me or my kid but if your case said "50" instead of "90" on it whoopty ****! Unless youre a total a hole I would NEVER protest you for it...a peice of aluminum did not beat me. Even if the rules say its not ok...its a technicality not an advantage.


AMEN BROTHER:cool:

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by quadscrib
Though I have commented on these couple related threads (ONLY out of curiosity) I have to say that this sounds like one whiny B.I.T.C.H fest.....WTF?
I should just shut up but ANYONE who whines that someone entered a lesser machine is pathetic... what would you EVER be worried bout?
As far as racing goes. I always thought one of the biggest reasons for racing was to develop technology,improve, etc... not to give a bunch of parents who are living through their kids a bunch of hair splitting liberal "Im a lesser person if my kid loses" crap.
MONEY ALWAYS WINS!!!!!!! Thats how america works! (well for now). Someone has more money than you,here we have (had, before MR.O took office) every chance to go out ,get educated , and try to compete for Mr$$'s job and then compete dollor for dollor. Someone is always gonna have something better than you and me.
I would NVER cheat or will I tolerate someone cheating against me or my kid but if your case said "50" instead of "90" on it whoopty ****! Unless youre a total a hole I would NEVER protest you for it...a peice of aluminum did not beat me. Even if the rules say its not ok...its a technicality not an advantage.
thank god here locally us mini parents are mostly friends and even try to help each other, kids hang out together, we trade parts, etc.... This national crap just sounds embarrising to the sport and to me. THIS IS FOR YOU KIDS!!!! Oh and it supposed to be FUN!!!!!!

Agreed!
The reason some of this begins is because there are a select few that basically harass another rider and his family until that person gets bitter and the snowball effect begins. If there is one thing i've learned in racing - No-one cares what you do until you win. That's how it was when I raced my sportbike and thats how it is in quad racing. If your winning you must be cheating and if your not then I'll look for something else. ect.

[drxracing]

Dang still didn`t get my question answered how do the 50 cases make more hp than 90 cases???????

[hotquads1]

Originally posted by drxracing
Dang still didn`t get my question answered how do the 50 cases make more hp than 90 cases???????
.
they don't , but theory is the 50 case has less volume , increasing primary compression and some believe this is an advantage, but a 90 case can have same volume with a few mods.
marc

[yfz450bb07]

You know this hole thing is kinda funny, or pathetic. I don't mean to hijack this thread but it seems to have already been. When the cobra's came out everyone on a cvt complained that it would not be fair, so the ss class was created. Then when everyone started riding the honda's and making them an automatic and the cobra's put in the rekluse everyone on the cvt's again complained thus the 90 and 70 cvt only class was created.

So I would ask a cvt owner ( which by the way I am one ) why is it fair to enter your cvt in a ss class when it is not one??? Just to get more laps?? If it is not a ss then no you should not be allowed to enter and if its not belt driven then no you can't enter the cvt class seems pretty black and white to me!!!!

And by the way I'm on the west coast so I don't get to have the chance to argue about this stuff at the tracks!!! :devil: :devil:

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by yfz450bb07
You know this hole thing is kinda funny, or pathetic. I don't mean to hijack this thread but it seems to have already been. When the cobra's came out everyone on a cvt complained that it would not be fair, so the ss class was created. Then when everyone started riding the honda's and making them an automatic and the cobra's put in the rekluse everyone on the cvt's again complained thus the 90 and 70 cvt only class was created.

So I would ask a cvt owner ( which by the way I am one ) why is it fair to enter your cvt in a ss class when it is not one??? Just to get more laps?? If it is not a ss then no you should not be allowed to enter and if its not belt driven then no you can't enter the cvt class seems pretty black and white to me!!!!

And by the way I'm on the west coast so I don't get to have the chance to argue about this stuff at the tracks!!! :devil: :devil:


That was exacty what I said, we wanted our own class and we got it, so in my opinion we should stick to it or it seems like we were all just winey bit**es, got what we wanted then put them right back in with the ones we didn't want to race against, again JMO.
Again not trying to step on anybody, just think we should practice what we preech. There are always tracks that have practice days that is what we do for extra seat time.

Kevin Smitley

[mxdad423]

Originally posted by quadscrib
Though I have commented on these couple related threads (ONLY out of curiosity) I have to say that this sounds like one whiny B.I.T.C.H fest.....WTF?
I should just shut up but ANYONE who whines that someone entered a lesser machine is pathetic... what would you EVER be worried bout?
As far as racing goes. I always thought one of the biggest reasons for racing was to develop technology,improve, etc... not to give a bunch of parents who are living through their kids a bunch of hair splitting liberal "Im a lesser person if my kid loses" crap.
MONEY ALWAYS WINS!!!!!!! Thats how america works! (well for now). Someone has more money than you,here we have (had, before MR.O took office) every chance to go out ,get educated , and try to compete for Mr$$'s job and then compete dollor for dollor. Someone is always gonna have something better than you and me.
I would NVER cheat or will I tolerate someone cheating against me or my kid but if your case said "50" instead of "90" on it whoopty ****! Unless youre a total a hole I would NEVER protest you for it...a peice of aluminum did not beat me. Even if the rules say its not ok...its a technicality not an advantage.
thank god here locally us mini parents are mostly friends and even try to help each other, kids hang out together, we trade parts, etc.... This national crap just sounds embarrising to the sport and to me. THIS IS FOR YOU KIDS!!!! Oh and it supposed to be FUN!!!!!!


I understand what you are saying, but the rules are put in place for a reason and not made to be bent, if they were, then who says what rules can be bent and wich one's can't, you see where I'm going with this? The class CLEARLY states 51 to 70 and 71 to 90, so if you say well yea I know thats what it say's but its smaller then the highest cc's allowed so just let it go, then the next guys see's another rule that has a technicality and say's well.....then the next, then the next, and so on and so on. The rules are in black and white and made to be followed, yes there are some with GREY area's but this is not one of them.
And let me point out, this does not involve me what so ever, we only get to attend a couple of Nat's a year, so it doesn't affect me at all, but I am a firm believer in sticking to what is written in black and white that way there is no cause for these kind on problems, build the machines to the class structure and race them in the class they are built to compete in.
Like I said in a previous post, All motorsports have rules that are made to be followed, thats why they have tech guys to be sure they are followed.
Again JMO......

Kevin Smitley

[Logan #34's Dad]

Originally posted by yfz450bb07
When the cobra's came out everyone on a cvt complained that it would not be fair, so the ss class was created. Then when everyone started riding the honda's and making them an automatic and the cobra's put in the rekluse everyone on the cvt's again complained thus the 90 and 70 cvt only class was created.

So I would ask a cvt owner ( which by the way I am one ) why is it fair to enter your cvt in a ss class when it is not one??? Just to get more laps?? If it is not a ss then no you should not be allowed to enter and if its not belt driven then no you can't enter the cvt class seems pretty black and white to me!!!!

And by the way I'm on the west coast so I don't get to have the chance to argue about this stuff at the tracks!!! :devil: :devil: . Your wrong. The whole Honda clutch thing had nothing to do with the cvts. The Cobras felt there was an advantage to the Honda style - no clutch lever needed tranny so they developed something similar and then the Honda guys complained. SO the automatic classes were created. That had NOTHING to do with the cvts. As far as running Logan in the ss class I asked and the AMA said we could. See prior post where I pasted the email. Is it that hard to understand? I understand the argument but I was doing what I was told was okay. The argument is not with me it is with the AMA. I'll just run him in the mod class unless people want to make it personal then screw it I'll run him in the class I was told we were legal to do so. I don't care who I upset then. The worst part is that I try my best to get along with everyone and for the most part I do. But if you don't like me for some reason then please let me know and then I'll know where we stand.

[yfz450bb07]

First off not liking you has nothing to do with anything, I don't know ya and have never met ya. But you seem willing to spend the time and money, and put in the effort for your boy so that deserves nothing but respect buddy!!!

Now you can deny this untill your blue in the face but from the outside looking in what it looks like to me is your kid is fast ( the lap times say that for itself ) and you wanted to see where he stacks up against the cobra's. No problem with that we always want to see where are kids stack up in things when there good, that applies to all facets of life. But the rules are set. The reason it's 71-90 is so that the 70's can't just also ride in the 90's also even though they be fast enough to. It's a rule. Just like in the big quad class a 450 can't run in the open class you must be 451+.

But yes this is the problem with the mini class's there is just plain and simple to much complaining!!!! And this is JMO!!!

[Logan #34's Dad]

Yfz450 - I appoligize if you felt as if I was coming directly at you. I was not, but I wanted to correct you on the Honda thing. Heck, I may be off a little on the facts. And the end of my last spew was to everyone in general. Anyhow, I'm not denying that I want to see how my rider stacks up against them. I figured the cvts ran from the Cobras so that would be a logical place to see how he can do. I don't understand your analogy of the 71 - 90 class though. I'm running a 70 cvt with the 70 ss and the AMA said I could. Heck, we can't beat the #39 or #32 - them boys got rocketships. Logan is usually mid back at turn one. I'm trying though. Lol

[mxkids]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
. Your wrong. The whole Honda clutch thing had nothing to do with the cvts. The Cobras felt there was an advantage to the Honda style - no clutch lever needed tranny so they developed something similar and then the Honda guys complained. SO the automatic classes were created. That had NOTHING to do with the cvts. As far as running Logan in the ss class I asked and the AMA said we could. See prior post where I pasted the email. Is it that hard to understand? I understand the argument but I was doing what I was told was okay. The argument is not with me it is with the AMA. I'll just run him in the mod class unless people want to make it personal then screw it I'll run him in the class I was told we were legal to do so. I don't care who I upset then. The worst part is that I try my best to get along with everyone and for the most part I do. But if you don't like me for some reason then please let me know and then I'll know where we stand.

Wrong on this one, the Cobras did not feel there was an advantage. The problem was it was not a TRUE AUTO.

Sonia Tittle

[hotquads1]

Well Rocky, the rules are law and must only be interpretated by those who enforce them such as the ATVA Series Administrator or the ATVA Referee and without their endorsment you have no reason to think you can intepret them on your own, feeble minded racer dads do not have the infinite wisdom nor intellectual capacity to decipher such tasks and you should get prior clarification and approval before entering a class that might be contraversial and get it in writing. Huh? Oh, yeah , you did all those things, GOOD JOB . What else do people think you should have done differently ? I think Rocky has removed the single speed cvt and installed a 4 speed tranny in there and Logan is air shifting it thru the brake lever. That Rocky is a sneaky one! LOL , lets keep it fun , this post is not intended to hurt anyone's feelings just to make some of you guys smile and laugh it off.
marc

[XXX -rider]

Originally posted by turbo appex
if you have a 90 it hast to have 90 cases RIGHT ??? i just want to know if i need to bring some extra money to N.Y. thanks guys . see ya there

since you posted this .. I have been hard at work on my newest mod ..

I cant share all the details here ...but if you look hard enough you'll see it ..not sure what to call it just yet ..but I guess
"complete motor cover "..gives ya a hint :D our mini is modded to hide all the engine componemets pcs. including the carb & front sprocket ...& only those with big $$$'s will be able to see under it
:eek:

[Logan #34's Dad]

Now that is funny. One big metal sheet on the sides with a kicker poking out the side! That would make us all go nutz wondering what's under there. LOL
I believe one of the big engine guys want his people to cover up their quads so no-one can copy it. - SMART - cause it will happen.
It's a matter of time before some rich fella sends a motor overseas and has a true professional build it and we are all gonna lose. Hmmmm. :devil:
I've heard they have a stock l/c and a/c 49cc engine putting out 18 horses! And it only costs around $300.00! Shhhhhh.