rods/stroker kit? NEED HELP!!

[rob_990]

well.today i started to tear down my quad cause it started knocking super loud after going wot up a jump yesterday.i knew it was coming from the top end so i figured it was valves .then i got to them and they were fine.it ended up being my piston hitting my valves cause my piston was rocking on the rod.

so now i need a new rod.what kind should i replace it with?is it worth it to do a stroker kit?what kind should i get and where can i get them?what else should i do while im in there?

another thing i was thinking of is just get a new rod then bore my top end to a 416.but i dont know what compression to get.how much more reliable is a 10:1 than 11:1?


thanks.
rob

[F-16Guy]

I had the same thing happen, and this is what I did:

-- Carrillo rod (bought directly from Carrillo Ind. for $175)

-- Wiseco 87mm 11:1 piston

-- Cometic top end gasket kit with MLS head gasket

-- Valve seals, 3 angle valve grind


If you're a capable mechanic, you could have a local shop do the bottom end stuff (split cases, press on new rod, reassemble), and then do the top end yourself. The bottom end work will probably end up costing you about $400-500 with parts and labor. The top end will probably be about $250-350 in parts and labor if you do the studs and have the cylinder bored to 87mm.

If you put in a stronger rod, HD studs, OEM or Cometic MLS head gasket, and make sure the valves are okay, your quad will be just as reliable as a stock machine. Most people have problems with big bores when they cut corners.

The alternative would be to find a used bottom end with a good rod and put it together with a fresh top end. A used bottom end is a crap shoot, though, because it usually means that they grenaded the top end and now they're parting the quad out.

[rob_990]

whats a 3angle grind?

my moms cousins a mechanic and hes going to help me out with the bottom end so i dont need to worry about paying for labor.

does anyone know how reliable a 460 stoker from hot rods would be?im guessing not very.another thing i was thinking about is sending my crank to powroll and making a 416 stroker.anyone know anything about these?how much faster is a stroker than just boring it out?

[F-16Guy]

A 3 angle valve job is a pretty standard grind. You can do a 5 angle, which I'm guessing makes the gasses flow through the openings more smoothly, but I don't think it's a necessity.

A well built and properly set up stroker shouldn't give you any more problems than any other build, but no matter what kind of configuration you do, you'll have to modify parts or buy special parts. If you buy a hotrods stroker crank, you'll have to use a special piston. If you have Powroll stroke it, you'll probably have to grind the skirt of a standard piston to clear the crank, so no matter what, it's more work and $$.

If you guys are doing the labor, then the cost should drop quite a bit. You'll probably still want to have a reputable shop press the new rod onto the crank, bore the cylinder, and do the valve job (unless you just lap them). If the valves look pretty good and you just want to lap them, you'll just need a valve spring compressor to diassemble the valves and some lapping compound.

I've never ridden a stroker, but my 416 is properly built and jetted, and it rips pretty good. It runs on premium pump fuel and it's been very reliable for many years now.

[rob_990]

ya he said he can press on a new rod for me.i dont know about boring though.whats does lapping the valves do?

[F-16Guy]

Most places that do crankshaft work have a jig to keep the crank aligned while the halves are being mated. If you don't get it perfect, you'll have a lot of vibration that can damage the engine and wear the crank bearings out quickly. Make sure he can do it correctly, or pay the $70 to have it done. I, personally, would take the crank and cylinder to a professional to have that work done unless your mom's cousin has access to machine shop equipment.

To lap the valves, you coat the valve face and valve seat with an abrasive grease-like compound and spin the valve against the seat so that the two faces sand against each other and create a perfect seal. If the valve face and seat are in good shape (not cupped or worn), you can freshen up the sealing surface by lapping. If they are cupped or overly worn, they will have to be ground, and you may need to replace the valves.

[rob_990]

would i need stiffer valve springs with a stroker?

[rob_990]

heres what i did today

[rob_990]

,.

[rob_990]

.

[rob_990]

another

[rob_990]

heres the piston.you can tell where it was hitting the valves.

[rob_990]

motors out

[rob_990]

looks naked

[ngates788]

Originally posted by rob_990
whats a 3angle grind?

my moms cousins a mechanic and hes going to help me out with the bottom end so i dont need to worry about paying for labor.

does anyone know how reliable a 460 stoker from hot rods would be?im guessing not very.another thing i was thinking about is sending my crank to powroll and making a 416 stroker.anyone know anything about these?how much faster is a stroker than just boring it out?

i have a +4 hot rod stroker crank in my 400 and it is insane. like f-16 guy said with the hot rod crank you do need a new piston. i had the stroker done this winter and probably have close to 9 races on it so far this year with no problems only thing i dont like about it is taht it only starts on tdc so it kills your battery every time you try to start it. but other than that its awesome. im runnin 11:1 compression stg 2 cam hd studs stock valves and springs and port n polish

[Wheelie]

I've got over 3 years on my Powroll stroker and no problems to date. They modify the piston skirt in house--nothing to worry about there.

This machine rips.

[F-16Guy]

Jesus, man, how long does a tank of fuel last with a 240 main jet?? I like Powroll too, but rob_990 is gonna have to buy a rod anyway, so the Powroll crank would get pretty spendy since they use your stock rod with their stroker. Modding the piston skirt would be pretty easy, but it's an added complication down the road at rebuild time. I love the idea of having a stroker, and I think they're fine if properly built, but I haven't had an excuse to upgrade yet. :(

[dunatic]

Originally posted by rob_990
whats a 3angle grind?

my moms cousins a mechanic and hes going to help me out with the bottom end so i dont need to worry about paying for labor.

does anyone know how reliable a 460 stoker from hot rods would be?im guessing not very.another thing i was thinking about is sending my crank to powroll and making a 416 stroker.anyone know anything about these?how much faster is a stroker than just boring it out?

the 440 stroker from poweroll is a killer kit. 2mm overbore (416cc), plus 4mm stroker crank.

Last week side by side on the dyno:

MINE:

416cc (2mm - fresh piston)
11:1
stock crank
ARP studs
CG ported head
kibble valves and springs
hardened rockers
HC2
X6
41mm FCR

Mac Daddy's":

416cc (2mm - Fresh piston)
11:1
Poweroll 4mm stroker crank
ARP studs
CG ported head
kibble valves and springs
hardened rockers
HC2
LRD Pro4
39mm FCR


Mine made 40hp
Mack's made 43hp

Mine made 30 ft lbs
Macks made 33 ft lbs

the 4mm stroke makes that much difference and his with a 2mm smaller carb

[dunatic]

Originally posted by rob_990
looks naked

while it's apart, give it a good bath

[Wheelie]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
Jesus, man, how long does a tank of fuel last with a 240 main jet??

Not very long if I ride hard.:D
Originally posted by F-16Guy I like Powroll too, but rob_990 is gonna have to buy a rod anyway, so the Powroll crank would get pretty spendy since they use your stock rod with their stroker. Modding the piston skirt would be pretty easy, but it's an added complication down the road at rebuild time. I love the idea of having a stroker, and I think they're fine if properly built, but I haven't had an excuse to upgrade yet. :(

The upgrade to an HD rod is about $200 through Powroll----I believe they use Fallicon.

[RIDEREDson]

A little off topic, but if 416's are putting out 40 hp+. Why is everyone afraid to race them in mx. I know you can make 450's alot faster with little mods. If your a good rider, I dont see why a 416 would'nt be a disadvantage at all in C or B class.

I know 400ex28 (or use to) and mooseracer race their 416's also.

[rob_990]

well,so far i ordered cometic complete gasket kit and won a spal fan off ebay.tomorrow hopefully ill call gtt so i can get some head studs.what else should i add to make it reliable as possible?

ill also call powroll tomorrow and see how much this is gonna cost.on there site i see they have an 11:5:1 piston.would this mean i would have to run race fuel what about if i run the je 10:8:1?

[rob_990]

Originally posted by dunatic
while it's apart, give it a good bath

yea its a little dirty. it was clean till i broke down and got towed back to a road behind some kid with big mud lites. it wasnt very fun:D

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by Wheelie
Not very long if I ride hard.:D

The upgrade to an HD rod is about $200 through Powroll----I believe they use Fallicon.
Powroll did my crank work when I had Pro Fab ATV (anyone remember them?) rebuild my engine the first time, and I was told that they compressed the stock rod to shorten it for the stroker crank, which made the metal more dense and a lot stronger. Things may have changed since then, but that's the information I got.

Man, 40 hp is good for a 416! I'm dying to get mine on a dyno just to see where I'm at. I know I'm not close to that, but I'm hoping for mid 30's. Maybe one day....

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by rob_990
well,so far i ordered cometic complete gasket kit and won a spal fan off ebay.tomorrow hopefully ill call gtt so i can get some head studs.what else should i add to make it reliable as possible?

ill also call powroll tomorrow and see how much this is gonna cost.on there site i see they have an 11:5:1 piston.would this mean i would have to run race fuel what about if i run the je 10:8:1?

I would try to stay at or under 11:1. Hunting down special fuel every time you ride isn't very fun, and it'll make plenty of power with an 11:1 piston.

I would also stick with a stock stroke. Yeah, a stroker motor is cool, but it complicates things. If you're looking for big numbers, then I guess go for it, but it's a lot of extra hassle and money for a few horsepower. Just my $0.02

[dunatic]

Originally posted by RIDEREDson
A little off topic, but if 416's are putting out 40 hp+. Why is everyone afraid to race them in mx. I know you can make 450's alot faster with little mods. If your a good rider, I dont see why a 416 would'nt be a disadvantage at all in C or B class.

I know 400ex28 (or use to) and mooseracer race their 416's also.

peak HP and steepness of the curve are two different things. the newer bikes accelerate much quicker then the 4-henskies

[F-16Guy]

Yeah, 450 power is great for MX, but other types of racing level the playing field a little. I did pretty well in WORCS because some of the tracks had some tight spots and people were stalling their 450s. My 416 was able to lug past them a gear high and keep on truckin. At the pro level, you're obviously going to need a 450 to compete, but I think you can do pretty well at the local level with a built 400.

[RIDEREDson]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
Yeah, 450 power is great for MX, but other types of racing level the playing field a little. I did pretty well in WORCS because some of the tracks had some tight spots and people were stalling their 450s. My 416 was able to lug past them a gear high and keep on truckin. At the pro level, you're obviously going to need a 450 to compete, but I think you can do pretty well at the local level with a built 400.

Yeah thats what I mean. I'm sure theres alot of people in B and C class that can't ride 450s to there full potential. And a good built 400 would have no problem beating them.

[rob_990]

i just called powroll and they said that the stroker bumps up the compression by about .5. if i get a je 10:8:1 piston and have a stage 2 hot cam do you think i would have to run race fuel?

also,has anyone had any luck wit octane boosters?

[dunatic]

we have run straight super no lead from the pump. but mostly 50-50 110 leaded race and high test no lead

I dont run octane boosters....never have, never will.

If I need higher octane I buy race gas made that way.

[F-16Guy]

Octane boosters generally don't work. When they say it boosts octane by "X" amount of points, they mean tenths of an octane number (91 vs. 91.3 or 91.5), not whole octane points.

[rob_990]

mmk,tomarrow ill go look around and find out how much race gas is here

[rob_990]

i changed my mind.im not doing the stroker anymore.itll save me alot of money and i can still make it faster than it was before.plus i dont wanna have to run race gas and i dont wanna wait any longer than i have to to go riding

heres what ive ordered so far
spaul puller fan
cometic gaskets
gtt head studs
tusk clutch springs
heady duty hot rod kit

tomorrow ill probably order a 406 or 416 je piston.with either 10:6:1 or 10:8:1 compression.do you think theres really a noticeable difference?and im thinking i should order kibblewhite valves and springs too.it all depends on how much i can get them for.

anything else i need?

[rob_990]

today i ended up buying a je 10:8:1 piston for $130 and valves and springs for $210.
so i should have all my parts by next friday


i installed my fan yesterday and the fuse keeps blowing.any ideas what it could be?is the fuse to small maybe?its got a 3 on it.