400ex race

[honda400-4-ever]

theirs a rumor going around that a stock 1st generation 400 will beat a stock 2nd generation 400....is it true???

[honda400ex2003]

yup, the gearing is lowered on the newer ones. Teh ratios are different inside the drive system along with different gearing at the axle and final shaft. the 1st gen. is 15, 38 and the 2nd is 14, 39 i think along with internally lower gearing. steve

[Snipe]

I dont know about the internals being dif and dont honestly know if there true or not.

Yes the front sprocket is smaller but the rear sprocket is dif as well. I honestly dont think it would blow it away it would come to riders. I just dont see it being that much of a difference.

[honda400ex2003]

I have heard it is about a 4 mile per hour difference but i guess i have never actually tested this or witnessed it first hand so i am jsut going off of what i have read. steve

[Ryan'07400ex]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
I have heard it is about a 4 mile per hour difference but i guess i have never actually tested this or witnessed it first hand so i am jsut going off of what i have read. steve

Yea rider has the most to do with it but 05 and up probably gets to its top speed (although 4mph lower) a little quicker than 04 down so as long as it isn't really long 05 may win. haha

[honda400ex2003]

I guess it can be looked at either way. If it is a very short race the new ones will win. Did not think aobut that. If the race is longer though, the old ones will win. steve

[puTTs]

Rather then the he said she said lets do some actual numbers and see. Straight from my 05 owners manual. Stock 20 inch tires. Assuming you can take 5th gear to the stock 9100rpm rev limiter.

2005 and up
----------
Primary - 2.826
1st - 2.727
2nd - 1.789
3rd - 1.363
4th - 1.08
5th - .925
final - 2.786(14/39)
final - 3(13/39)

73.5mph with 14/39 sprockets(stock)
68mph with 13/39 sprockets(13 tooth added)

2004 and older
-------------------
primary reduction----2.826 (23/65)
1st----------------------2.916 (12/35)
2nd---------------------1.937 (16/31)
3rd---------------------1.473 (19/28)
4th---------------------1.181 (22/26)
5th---------------------1.000 (26/26)
final reduction--------2.533 (15/38)

75.5mph with 15/38 sprockets

The older 400ex are 2 mph faster at the top end. They're so close we'll just call them even. These are pencil and paper numbers, assuming you have the power to top out in 5th. Some one put this as a sticky so it doesn't come up again. :)

[Snipe]

I dont know what they are.

4mph lol. Come on just change the sprockets to the older style and you have it back.

I have ridden a 2002 and my 2008. my bro in law has me on being a bit lighter when mine was stock with just the pipe his was same with just a FMF pipe I wouldnt leave him but he never left me either running straight stretch wide open.

I have yet to get my quad to touch the rev in 5th gear.

We were practiclly same weight same setup just older style quad lol.

There is no way in hell a stock 400ex is doing 73.5mph OR 75.5mph, that is a load of crap.

I had mine ALMOST topped out, and the speedometer only read 61.3mph (and yes my tire size is calculated correctly.) So if it was completely topped the max is only about 65mph, not 73.5. Dirtwheels just had a big 450 shootout and even the honda 450r topped out at 69, and the kawi at 71. I doubt our little fo hundreds are faster.:p

[puTTs]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
There is no way in hell a stock 400ex is doing 73.5mph OR 75.5mph, that is a load of crap.

I had mine ALMOST topped out, and the speedometer only read 61.3mph (and yes my tire size is calculated correctly.) So if it was completely topped the max is only about 65mph, not 73.5. Dirtwheels just had a big 450 shootout and even the honda 450r topped out at 69, and the kawi at 71. I doubt our little fo hundreds are faster.:p

The above numbers are done on pencil and paper, as stated above. I stated gearing wise that is what these bikes can do assuming you have the power, which a stock bike does not. You said "I had mine ALMOST topped out" can you ball park what that means rpm wise? Doing some simple math again on what you said above, 61.3mph, puts you at 7500rpm give or take 25 rpms. Your rpms are actually slightly higher assuming some tire spin, worn down tire tread, clutch slip. Your bike has the potential to go faster if you had more power to push it, or if you reved it a bit higher, you have another 1600rpm to go before you would be "topped out". Which would put you right with the numbers I stated above. :)

What are the 450r gear ratios? And tire size?

Originally posted by puTTs
The above numbers are done on pencil and paper, as stated above. I stated gearing wise that is what these bikes can do assuming you have the power, which a stock bike does not. You said "I had mine ALMOST topped out" can you ball park what that means rpm wise? Doing some simple math again on what you said above, 61.3mph, puts you at 7500rpm give or take 25 rpms. Your rpms are actually slightly higher assuming some tire spin, worn down tire tread, clutch slip. Your bike has the potential to go faster if you had more power to push it, or if you reved it a bit higher, you have another 1600rpm to go before you would be "topped out". Which would put you right with the numbers I stated above. :)

What are the 450r gear ratios? And tire size?

I was doing about 8600-8700rpm when I had to let off. 20inch tires, good tread, and the mods in my sig.

[jcs003]

no way the 400 will go 73.5 mph in stock trim.

[puTTs]

Are you going by your vapor computer system? They just use a basic sense wire rapped around the spark plug wire i think. There's no way that is an acurate way of measuring RPMs up high. A true rpm gauge needs to be ran off the negative lead on the coil to get a defenate on/off signal. Not just picking up the magnetic flux of the electricity flowing through the plug wire. Your vapor system will ball park things pretty good, but are no way 100% acurate. I bet if you ran down the road side by side a car my numbers would be spot on. Unless you have changed your gearing. :)

[puTTs]

Originally posted by jcs003
no way the 400 will go 73.5 mph in stock trim.

No one here said it would. Let me sum up for the people that don't fully read a post.

"Assuming you can take 5th gear to the stock 9100rpm rev limiter."

"I stated gearing wise that is what these bikes can do assuming you have the power, which a stock bike does not."

"These are pencil and paper numbers, assuming you have the power to top out in 5th."

If I were to ball park it I would say it would take 31-32 HP at 9100rpm and a rider less then 200lbs, on pavement as well to reduce rolling resistance. That's what it would take to push a stock geared 400ex to the above stated MPH.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by puTTs
Rather then the he said she said lets do some actual numbers and see. Straight from my 05 owners manual. Stock 20 inch tires. Assuming you can take 5th gear to the stock 9100rpm rev limiter.

2005 and up
----------
Primary - 2.826
1st - 2.727
2nd - 1.789
3rd - 1.363
4th - 1.08
5th - .925
final - 2.786(14/39)
final - 3(13/39)

73.5mph with 14/39 sprockets(stock)
68mph with 13/39 sprockets(13 tooth added)

2004 and older
-------------------
primary reduction----2.826 (23/65)
1st----------------------2.916 (12/35)
2nd---------------------1.937 (16/31)
3rd---------------------1.473 (19/28)
4th---------------------1.181 (22/26)
5th---------------------1.000 (26/26)
final reduction--------2.533 (15/38)

75.5mph with 15/38 sprockets

The older 400ex are 2 mph faster at the top end. They're so close we'll just call them even. These are pencil and paper numbers, assuming you have the power to top out in 5th. Some one put this as a sticky so it doesn't come up again. :)

"assuming you have the power"??? this is confusing me.

a 400ex is not 31-32 hp.

[05trx300ex]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
Dirtwheels just had a big 450 shootout and even the honda 450r topped out at 69, and the kawi at 71. I doubt our little fo hundreds are faster.:p

Did Honda change something from 08 to 09? Because last year in the 450 shootout from dirtwheels the Honda 450R tied the YFZ450 for top speed at 78.

[puTTs]

On a stock bike you run out of HP, you do not have enough twisting force coming off the crank to run 5th gear all the way out to the rev limiter. The bike, gearing wise can still go faster.

""assuming you have the power"??? this is confusing me."

Assuming you have more power than stock, roughly my 31-32HP @ 9100rpm mentioned. You could spin the engine up faster(rpms) up untill the rev limiter giving you the maximum MPH listed above.

On a 100% stock bike, just say 27HP(I've seen 26-28 dynoed) You would run out of power at about 62 MPH, give or take a few depending on how heavy you are. A stock bike won't turn more then about 7700rpm in 5th giving you the 62 MPH number.

So a 100% stock 400ex would be about 62MPH topped out. But has the potential, assuming adding engine power, to run 73.5mph for 05 and newer and 75.5mph for 2004 and older.

[honda400-4-ever]

so what your saying is a 2005 and up will accelerate faster but a 2004 and older is 2 mph faster but accelerates slower.....so its not that much slower. i think honda did it because but in '99 their was no 450r's and the 400's were the race bikes.

[puTTs]

Both bikes stock will do about 62 mph, this is HP limited. Yes the 2004 is geared a hair faster, and I mean a fine hair. If you want to get technical again the 2005 and newer would accelerate about 2.7% quicker, and both would top out the same. If you take away loses, there wouldn't be a large enough differance between the to even see. In a 150ft drag race the 05 and newer might win by half a bike length assuming the same riders. A small breeze could blow and change the out come of that race... So to sum it up. There the same, or close enough that it doesn't matter.

If you want to throw something else in there. Assuming both bikes are 100% stock, 2005 and newer should always beat 2004 and older from the fact that they have less ride time on them. Fewer hours on the engine means less wear and tear, and would be putting out closer to there original HP.

[deathcorefan2]

so with my mods and say stock gearing and twenty inch tires. how would i top out? bout 65?

[puTTs]

What main jet are you running? Is the right air/fuel mixture? Is it the stock compression?

[08ex4]

help me with this i have an 08 and mt buddy has an 05 his is bone stock and mine has a 170 main jet an aftermarket filter with no lid and a slipon exhaust with the mixture srew turned out 3.5 turns when we drag race we stay right beside each other i can pull on him in 4th but i was expecting more from the parts that ive put on it whats the deal by the way he is 75lbs lighter than me thanks for the input

[puTTs]

Originally posted by 08ex4
help me with this i have an 08 and mt buddy has an 05 his is bone stock and mine has a 170 main jet an aftermarket filter with no lid and a slipon exhaust with the mixture srew turned out 3.5 turns when we drag race we stay right beside each other i can pull on him in 4th but i was expecting more from the parts that ive put on it whats the deal by the way he is 75lbs lighter than me thanks for the input

What color is your plug? Should be light brown/tan if things are jetted decent. 75lbs is a lot. If your 250lbs and he is 175lbs you need to put out 13% more power just to be even. Your slip on, filter, and no lid is probably about that. That's why you're even. Lose some weight or add more power. :)

[08ex4]

pm'd you

[BassHunter0123]

from my experience someone who has a 04 or older will say his is faster, also someone that has a 05 or newer will say his is faster. whatever the person owns is going to say his is faster. has a lot to do with the rider. all in all it is damn near the same bike. just my 2 cents

[honda400ex2003]

time to delete, this is a waste. go race some one with a old one if you have a new one. it really does not matter for the the little bit of difference it makes. you guys are like cats and dogs. you have the numbers read them and leave it at that. breaking in a motor differently can make a bigger difference than this. theres a good topic for you guys to argue over. lol, steve

[RIDEREDson]

Thought I'd mention 04 and up.. has a bigger carb

Originally posted by RIDEREDson
Thought I'd mention 04 and up.. has a bigger carb

Nope, it doesn't. There was a huge argument about that a while back.

[81 clark racing]

i have both a 03 400ex and a 05 400ex,both stock compression. the 03 has full t4 pipe, uni filter jetkit, sparkskey, hc 2,icat spark enhancer and thats it power wise the 05 has a slip on hmf, jetted, uni filter and a hc 2. THE 03 PULLS ON THE 05 BY ABOUT A BIKE INA HALF LENGTH TOPPED OUT ON PAVEMENT. however the 05 has more low end power due to the diff size sprockets. this was the same result even after switchin the riders both riders same weight and just as much experience so........

[puTTs]

I thought I summed it up a few post ago. I did the technical numbers to get rid of the he said she that started in this post.

"Both bikes stock will do about 62 mph, this is HP limited. Yes the 2004 is geared a hair faster, and I mean a fine hair. If you want to get technical again the 2005 and newer would accelerate about 2.7% quicker, and both would top out the same. If you take away loses, there wouldn't be a large enough differance between the two to even see. In a 150ft drag race the 05 and newer might win by half a bike length assuming the same riders. A small breeze could blow and change the out come of that race... So to sum it up. There the same, or close enough that it doesn't matter."

[puTTs]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
Nope, it doesn't. There was a huge argument about that a while back.

2004 and back have a 35.5mm carb. 2005 and newer has 38mm. It's clearly stated by Honda and if you actually measure them it's true. My 2005 has a butterfly throttle valve. Do the 2004 and older have the slide? If they do that would even the carbs back out I'm sure.

[KevinAb]

My buddy has an '03, mine is an '05, same mods both have HMF Slip-on, jetted, Unifilter, gutted airbox lid, same rear tires. We've raced many many times. I usually pull on him a little off the line and stay ahead until about the top of 3rd gear. Then he starts slowly creeping by me. He has just a hair more top speed when we are flat out 5th gear.

Now he's added a sparks key and is going down a tooth (or 2?) on the rear sprocket. We'll see how that changes things.

[spearman_929]

i have an 07 and i have only been beat by one gen 1 and its a 426. and im smoking z 400s

[RIDEREDson]

Originally posted by puTTs
2004 and back have a 35.5mm carb. 2005 and newer has 38mm. It's clearly stated by Honda and if you actually measure them it's true. My 2005 has a butterfly throttle valve. Do the 2004 and older have the slide? If they do that would even the carbs back out I'm sure.


Yep 35.5 and 38mm

Yes, but I believe they are about the same size. Their was a lot of arguing a long time back.

The 38mm I believe is actually more oval, so it's narrower. But the 35mm is a perfect circle.

[puTTs]

My 2005 is a dead 38mm circle. Do the 2004 and older use a butterfly throttle or slide?

[droppedmazda]

they use a slide on the 99-04.

[puTTs]

Originally posted by droppedmazda
they use a slide on the 99-04.

Well if that's true that would end the carb debate. The 2005 and newer has a larger 38mm hole but has a butterfly restricting flow, where the 2004 and older has a smaller 35.5mm hole but no restrictions from a butterfly. I bet if you flow benched them both at wide open throttle they would be the same or close enough it wouldn't matter. :)

On a side note looks will always go to the 2004 and older. My 2005 and newer ones look bad A, but nothing beats those little beedy eyes staring you down.

[RIDEREDson]

Originally posted by puTTs
Well if that's true that would end the carb debate. The 2005 and newer has a larger 38mm hole but has a butterfly restricting flow, where the 2004 and older has a smaller 35.5mm hole but no restrictions from a butterfly. I bet if you flow benched them both at wide open throttle they would be the same or close enough it wouldn't matter. :)

On a side note looks will always go to the 2004 and older. My 2005 and newer ones look bad A, but nothing beats those little beedy eyes staring you down.

Please.... It takes alot to make one with frog eyes look good. All the good lookin 1st gens dont have the lights. I've seen very few that do look good with the lights. (nacsmxer and the roll addiction guy's)