Sparks key

[honda400-4-ever]

Im wanting a little more power out of my bike which one should i get different front sprocket or sparks key....

[Ryan'07400ex]

Originally posted by honda400-4-ever
Im wanting a little more power out of my bike which one should i get different front sprocket or sparks key....

Well for a sprocket you will lose speed or accel.
With key you don't lose anything (thats what I hear) I just got mine today so can't say from personal experience

[honda400-4-ever]

tell me how u liked it.....where was the power increase at???

Originally posted by honda400-4-ever
tell me how u liked it.....where was the power increase at???

Hey man.

I noticed you've been really dragging your feet about the sparks key for a while now. Trust me, just break down spend the $20 and buy it already. I did and couldn't be any happier. The thing is a pretty simple install, and there is no negative effects to it. I noticed an increase in power all across the board. Mainly in the mid-top end. It's the best bang for the buck on a 400ex, and anyone who has it on this forum would say the same thing. I think it added as much as my exhaust did. I never before had a problem with the front end floating up on me off the start, but now I always find myself hammering hard on the take off and the front end picks up in the air on me.
It rev's out a little faster and was so worth the little cost. Like the cherrybomb for the ltr450, a cheap product with great results. Just buy it, you won't regret it.

[uchi]

mine came in last week and the gasket is here now, so tomorrow im putting it in and ill have an update :D

[Ryan'07400ex]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX

The thing is a pretty simple install, and there is no negative effects to it. I noticed an increase in power all across the board. Mainly in the mid-top end. It's the best bang for the buck on a 400ex, and anyone who has it on this forum would say the same thing. I think it added as much as my exhaust did. I never before had a problem with the front end floating up on me off the start, but now I always find myself hammering hard on the take off and the front end picks up in the air on me.
It rev's out a little faster and was so worth the little cost.

Really DMC? Mid to Top? Everyone else says low and throttle response.

Originally posted by Ryan'07400ex
Really DMC? Mid to Top? Everyone else says low and throttle response.

I honestly think it's in their heads. I don't blame them though, it's happened to me before where I do something and think it helped, when there wasn't really a difference.

Advancing the timing helps top end, retarding the timing helps bottom end. I noticed when riding it, that the very bottom is almost the same, but as soon as it hits mid range it feels like the torque comes on harder. And it's noticeably more rev happy.

[Snipe]

But tell me this, Alot of the after market CDI boxes also do the same thing as this so can you run a CDI box that also curves the timing with the sparks key? As I am planning to upgrade in the future and will put a CDI box on it for the RPM increase.

[dunatic]

I just spent 2.5 hours on the dyno last night trying out 3 cdi's, the sparks +3 key and 3 different FCR needles

The CDI's did nothing but raise the rev limit, and in one case had no limit and i saw revs in excess of 12k. The 3rd cdi I tried did the most. It gained .25hp and .11 ft lbs and about 200 rpms up the face. nothing to right home about in my opinion.

I then left that box in and installed the +3 esr key. it gained 1.5 hp and 1.18 ft lbs.

Then we installed an OEM GYTR Yamaha needle in my 41mm FCR...that leaned the middle out and gained another 1 ft lb..

Keep in mind my bike was already running pretty close to 13.5 fuel to air ratio once over 5000 rpm, so jetting was pretty spot on. All 8 plugs was carmel colored all night.

we ended up with 40.25 hp and 30.6 ft lbs

After we get back from Saint Anthonys at the end of the month, I will install the +6 key and reduce the pilot size (did have one small enough last night)

Final jetting was 162 main and 50 pilot, GYTR needle in the 2nd clip position.

This motor is a 416 (11:1), ported head, Kibble valves and springs, hardened rockers, HC2, Sparks X6 megaphone, 41mm DCR, stock flywheel, CBR900 clutch plates and shimmed CR500 springs.

Max HP and Torque occured at 8700, but held within 2hp all the way til 9350. At 10,500 it was still producing 36.3hp

If you look back I spent probally a good 6 months searching and asking questions about the key. I was so hesitant to do it, I knew pistons, cams and all that but never opened up the flywheel side. I looked at just about every post on the internet involving advancing the timing on not only the 400ex but cars to see the ffects and called sparks myself with some questions. Talked to my neighbor who used to build race cars for the big guys in NASCAR who now owns a team and his son is a professional race car driver. Asked him about advancing the timing he said its key to building motors and getting the most out of them... and 6 degrees would make a big difference on that small motor. I went and bought one. Installed it easily thanks to Tri5on writeup on it. Took it for a ride to see what all the hype is about. I noticed Tri5on said you might want to sit a little more forward than usual. Me thinking yeah right I give it full throttle from putting around and up goes the front end. I was able to just hit the gas sitting on the tank and it would pull it up. There is a lowend increase but mid to top is what advancing the timing does best. YOu can pull it to the rev limiter pretty darn easy. For raising the rev limiter a timing advance is usually used to keep it pulling as the speed increases the timing needs to. GREAT MOD! Do it and dont think twice or spend 6 months searching for a sure approval. I havent had another 400ex touch me yet in a race the quicker revs from it really helps out. Now a built bored out motor that will get me. I'm happy with the power I have. The only time I feel underpowered is racing a 450 on a straight or trying to break the tires loose in a turn like they can. A few more simple mods and then suspension I will be pretty confident that most wont be able to keep up.

[Snipe]

Tires are key to breaking loose in a turn.

my 400ex with the AMS rears and a 15T front will spin really easy. Before I hated riding behind my bro in law's 450 now he wont ride behind me lmao.

I will def do this whats it gonna hurt worse case I take it out and put my stocker back in and then someone on here can buy a lightly used key on ebay for nearly nothin lmao.

Originally posted by Snipe
Tires are key to breaking loose in a turn.

my 400ex with the AMS rears and a 15T front will spin really easy. Before I hated riding behind my bro in law's 450 now he wont ride behind me lmao.

I will def do this whats it gonna hurt worse case I take it out and put my stocker back in and then someone on here can buy a lightly used key on ebay for nearly nothin lmao.

Yeah but 2nd gear is way to short and 3rd gear wont break them loose real good and regearing is not an option. A flatter tire like Razrs will slide much easier.

[dunatic]

Originally posted by Snipe
Tires are key to breaking loose in a turn.

my 400ex with the AMS rears and a 15T front will spin really easy. Before I hated riding behind my bro in law's 450 now he wont ride behind me lmao.

I will def do this whats it gonna hurt worse case I take it out and put my stocker back in and then someone on here can buy a lightly used key on ebay for nearly nothin lmao.

is yours a +3 or +6 key ?

if so, Id like to buy it............or I would trade you a stock key if you dont still have yours

[Snipe]

The AMS pak traxs are identical to the razr 2's just a bit shallower tread. there flat and tread is closer so they spin easier.

Not got it yet I will get one hear soon and try it out.

[honda400-4-ever]

thanks you guys im ordering it tonite. where is the best place to get gaskets and which one is most likely to break when opening??(crankcase or starter case)

[katch26]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
Advancing the timing helps top end, retarding the timing helps bottom end. I noticed when riding it, that the very bottom is almost the same, but as soon as it hits mid range it feels like the torque comes on harder. And it's noticeably more rev happy.

I dont quite unterstand this. Advancing the cam timing does what your describing but the key advances the ignition timing.

Originally posted by katch26
I dont quite unterstand this. Advancing the cam timing does what your describing but the key advances the ignition timing.

I'm not exactly a timing guru, but I know that's usually how it is with most things. Not sure if the 400ex is different, but the top end is where I noticed the increase, not bottom.

[katch26]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
I'm not exactly a timing guru, but I know that's usually how it is with most things. Not sure if the 400ex is different, but the top end is where I noticed the increase, not bottom.

no youre right (in regards to cam timing) but ignition timing is more relative to timing of the combustion event...but its my understanding the 400ex motor is fires slightly late so the key signals the spark sooner allowing a more complete burn. Someone else will chime in if Im thinking on the wrong direction, either way mine is on order

[puTTs]

The key changes when the combustion happens. Advancing the timing can only help power through out the powerband, untill the point of pre-detonation.

[Ryan'07400ex]

Just got mine on. So far after a 15 minute test drive in the dark I am happy. felt like it got to top speed so fast in 1st 2nd and 3rd (couldn't get higher) It did warm up a bit quicker but WOW.

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Originally posted by Snipe
But tell me this, Alot of the after market CDI boxes also do the same thing as this so can you run a CDI box that also curves the timing with the sparks key? As I am planning to upgrade in the future and will put a CDI box on it for the RPM increase.

get the sparks cdi its made for the timing key upgrade

[Ryan'07400ex]

I went on a longer ride today. I really liked the acceleration. My friend did to, he says he is getting it now. So much for being different for once. but hey its all good still.
Back to acceleration it was so much better I found when swinging my end around it would slide alot easier and more, almost spun all around once. haha. Then I got a limb stuck in nerfs/a arms and it flipped it on the handlebars but nothing messed up :D:eek2:

[81-Honda-04]

sounds like the Sparks key is a great mod! i've been debating on getting one myself! but because i have a thing for breaking bolts and such when working on my bike. is it easy to instal? or should i have the shop do it?

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Originally posted by 81-Honda-04
sounds like the Sparks key is a great mod! i've been debating on getting one myself! but because i have a thing for breaking bolts and such when working on my bike. is it easy to instal? or should i have the shop do it?

do it your self and its very very easy... all you gotta do is use a torque wrench set at 8ft lbs for all of the case bolts when you put them back on... when taking them off just be gentle so that you dont break one off and if you do its easy to get out because you're taking the case off...

[honda400-4-ever]

how long does it take sparks racing to ship it to you. what gaskets are prone to break

[dunatic]

my starter gasket was fine, but I did break my stator cover one. honda dont give them away either.....$18 or something

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i always use red high temp RTV for my gaskets

[2muchquad]

i always use red high temp RTV for my gaskets

exactly.;)

[uchi]

Got mine for just over 12 bucks taxes in.

I did the key. It revs faster. But doesn't feel faster. Could be because I've changes to a lower octane fuel. So ill be going back up to 94 next ride. It definatly gives the quad a more aggressive sound.



Originally posted by dunatic
my starter gasket was fine, but I did break my stator cover one. honda dont give them away either.....$18 or something

[BEAVER.989]

I, too have been dragging my feet on installing the key. I kinda want to do the key and a Stage 1 Hotcam, but am concerned about my ability to install everything myself. The key seems pretty straightforward if you have the tools(which I don't), but the cam makes me a little nervous.

I bought a Clymer manual on ebay a couple hours ago. I'll read up a bit and see if I feel any better about taking it on.

[Snipe]

Originally posted by honda400-4-ever
how long does it take sparks racing to ship it to you. what gaskets are prone to break

Ordered monday shipped next day will be here monday im in missouri and its a ups from cali so not to bad. And there customer service is freakin awesome!!!

[uchi]

the install is really easy. easier if you have an impact gun. get a corded one for 50 bucks or so and use that. youre also gonna need a bigger socket. i believe its a 31 mm to get the pully puller bolt on that comes with the kit.

[Red02EX]

The flywheel puller bolt is 30MM. I used a fwd axle nut socket to crank on it with.