250r/400ex hybrid...

[jcs003]

i am in the begining of a hybrid consisting of a 400ex chassis and a 1986 250r engine. i had some stock parts left from my 1999 400ex build up throughout the years, along with a couple extra 86 250r motors i acquired after the purchase of my 250r in 2002.(i think it was '02.)

anyways, i will have pics of mediocore quality(cell, no digital). i hope to answer questions and maybe get some help if needed.

[jcs003]

here is a side view:

[jcs003]

other side: you can see i used two right side 400ex mounts and removed a section from each to clear cases.

[jcs003]

the radiator has been modded to allow better access to filler neck. the outlets were switched to the opposite side in the same location. now the filler is on the left.

[jcs003]

another view of radiator:

[jcs003]

some random pics:

[jcs003]

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[jcs003]

the ESR TRX-6 pipe. needs rechromed. the mid pipe will need an inch section cut out and rewelded to clear the inner tie-rod end.

[jcs003]

zoom. the pic may be decieving but there is no interference issues with the a-arms throughout the travel.

[jcs003]

closer pic of left side motor mount:

[jcs003]

random:

[jcs003]

the actual motor that will be installed in the finished product. i did some polishing.

[jcs003]

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[honda400-4-ever]

check this out it might help a bit!!!http://www.servicehonda.com/service.html

[jcs003]

Originally posted by honda400-4-ever
check this out it might help a bit!!!http://www.servicehonda.com/service.html

thanks, i seen that. it is what actually inspired me.

Awesome man! Gonna be cool when its done.

[jcs003]

here is the radiator mounted: tell me what you think. is it offset badly...will it get in the way of the fenders...etc.

[jcs003]

more:

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[michaelopfer]

wow, that radiator is smart, did you do that your self, how did you fill in the original holes and how did you weld the tubes on the otherside. my exr hybrid radiator also runs really close to to the pipe, but i have not expeirienced any issues conserning overheating or melting the hose. but nice clean way to get everything spred out and not so cluttered. can't wait to see it finished

[jcs003]

i just used aluminum plugs and built up the weld/ for the other side, i used a hole saw the size of the outlets and then just welded them on. took it to a radiator shop to test it and that was it.

im not sure i can run the hoses to the opposite sides yet, but either way its not a serious issue.

[jcs003]

UPDATE: got motor mounts welded and refinished some parts.

**COMMENTS APPRECIATED**

[jcs003]

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[born2ride14]

Looks Awsome, Just get a yfz radiator, that one is too big

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 300maniac
Looks Awsome, Just get a yfz radiator, that one is too big

thanks...it fits well actually. i offset it on the other side of the rails since the pic was took so it will be more centered when reassembled.

[jcs003]

sandblasted and painted frame with PJ1 frame paint, then went over with three more of acrylic clear to better simulate powdercoat. saved around $150. lets just see how it holds up.

[jcs003]

another:

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[jcs003]

updates:

[jcs003]

got the ESR fit beautifully.

[jcs003]

from this pic you can see the V-spike pegs which are well made, but the powdercoat is terrible. i may chrome them.

[jcs003]

you can see my CDI mount which is very solid and saved in the need to weld them on.

[michaelopfer]

so,, as for the exhaust... u think a quadzilla, lt250r or blaster expansion chamber would fit on the front of the 250r motor.. it's an idea i have been thinkin about for a while now, but don't know if the diameter of the exhaust port would match up.. but the bends look better suited for the 400 frame then the actual 250r pipe... mabey an atc pipe if a guy could clear the front motor mounts... what you think..

[jcs003]

Originally posted by michaelopfer
so,, as for the exhaust... u think a quadzilla, lt250r or blaster expansion chamber would fit on the front of the 250r motor.. it's an idea i have been thinkin about for a while now, but don't know if the diameter of the exhaust port would match up.. but the bends look better suited for the 400 frame then the actual 250r pipe... mabey an atc pipe if a guy could clear the front motor mounts... what you think..

i used a ESR trx6 and cut out 1" from the header section and welded it back together.

[michaelopfer]

so was it a perfect fit after you cut it or did you still have to muscle it in to fit... did you cut after the springs or rite at the edge,,(pics please)...

do you have this beast close to bein done yet,, you've been taken a while on this..

heres mine after i got done rebuilding it a 2nd time,,(polishing, greasing, and moved the radiator a hair so i could open the cap

[michaelopfer]

2. also,, in your pic with the esr silencer, I needed a spacer so the silencer didn't hit the top of rear brake caliper. I used my old white bros e series spacer for that

[jcs003]

i am basically done. i just ran short on money for fenders and wheels and tires.

michaelopfer: i did not use a spacer for the reason i cut about an inch of the other end of the pipe. i think some call it the "stinger". i used a yz400 caliper on my hybrid.and it sits differently than the ex one.

how did you do your intake?

did you use the 400ex rear shock?

will try and get updated pics.

[michaelopfer]

i used the stock 400ex one.. and i have a works remote ressie and moved the hose to the other side..so it would fit,
i was thinkin of geting a cr intake boot and reed cage to move the carb closer to the cylinder to get the carb further away from the frame to make it fit better.

[michaelopfer]

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[michaelopfer]

you should post some updated pics....

[jcs003]

i need to get access to a digital camera. i borrowed one for the original pics.

[tmtracing]

did you use the 400ex wiring or the 250r wiring?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by tmtracing
did you use the 400ex wiring or the 250r wiring?

250r wiring. 400ex is VERY different.

[tmtracing]

when mounting the 250r motor. do you level it off of cases or a certain cylinder angle?

thanks

[jcs003]

Originally posted by tmtracing
when mounting the 250r motor. do you level it off of cases or a certain cylinder angle?

thanks

the cylinder angle is irrelevent. the important thing to know is (on any build) the sprocket be very close to, and on the same plane as the swingarm pivot point. if this is not accomplished you will have many problems.

[tmtracing]

Originally posted by jcs003
the cylinder angle is irrelevent. the important thing to know is (on any build) the sprocket be very close to, and on the same plane as the swingarm pivot point. if this is not accomplished you will have many problems.

when you say "same plane as swingarm pivot point" do you mean - inline or same height in chassis?
by looking at pics on this thread, that is what it looks like to me.
did you use the same rear mounting as the 250r mounting.

this is all new to me, but i have built racecars. and have worked on quads before.
i just picked up a 400ex frame with everything but swingarm carrier bearing and axle, wiring, tires and wheels, plastic, and few other things for $100. and my dad has a 250r motor in his shop from when we raced outlaw sprint karts, that needs new crank and rod, and maybe piston i am going to use.

[jcs003]

the centerline of both the sprocket and swingarm pivot should be at the same angle.

[tmtracing]

thanks, been looking at pics, and see that it is at an angle and not (if looking at a compass) at 0 degrees.
sorry i am a cad engineer and talk in my language some times.

i will be starting a 400ex/250r hybrid in near future. so watch for my build thread.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by tmtracing
thanks, been looking at pics, and see that it is at an angle and not (if looking at a compass) at 0 degrees.
sorry i am a cad engineer and talk in my language some times.

i will be starting a 400ex/250r hybrid in near future. so watch for my build thread.

im a mechanical engineer so i am fimiliar with the terminology so it will be easier to relate. i want to update things, but i have no digital camera. plus, my cell camera is terrible.

[jcs003]

update: its been a while but she is coming together.

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[jcs003]

almost full functional. waiting on lectron to send my carb. also, need to get a few odds and ends and will update pics.

[michaelopfer]

sweet, deffinatly post some action pics when you can, maby even a video...


http://i41.tinypic.com/126emxd.jpg

[jcs003]

i have been testing it out the last couple of days. it is a good runner and i like the handling better than my 250r. i think it has to do with having a 400ex before a 250r.

i upgraded to a lectron carb after loving it on my 86 250r. it seems to lag off idle, but i think that has to do with mid range XC port. possibly i have too rich of a metering rod. its a process.

try and get pics up soon.

[easyrider470]

so i noticed that the forward engine mounts apear to be the stock 400 ex mounts? Does the engine basicaly drop right in and line up??? Looks like the only real fab work is in the rear where the back part of the engine is mounted?
I also wanted to ask if there is a preference on the year 250R motor to get....i was told that 5 and 6 are the same, and in 87 they went to a longer rod.....i know several people that have the 7 rod in an 6 motor...i am duning this thing so I want to make it as powerful as possible with some good low end grunt.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by easyrider470
so i noticed that the forward engine mounts apear to be the stock 400 ex mounts? Does the engine basicaly drop right in and line up??? Looks like the only real fab work is in the rear where the back part of the engine is mounted?
I also wanted to ask if there is a preference on the year 250R motor to get....i was told that 5 and 6 are the same, and in 87 they went to a longer rod.....i know several people that have the 7 rod in an 6 motor...i am duning this thing so I want to make it as powerful as possible with some good low end grunt.

it does work out with the sprockets lining up. also, you have to use two right side front motor mounts(400ex). a section has to be removed from the mounts to clear the cases. also, the 86 style rear motor mount is needed.

the right side(sitting on the bike) the swingarm pivot bushing needs to be cut down to 1.800". at least in my case.

but of course, a picture is worth 1,000 words.

feel free to ask me anything about this build.

[jcs003]

done!

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[easyrider470]

crazy that your plastics are silver...that is exactly what my bike looks like...only I have full elkas and lower suspension out front....looks really nice though...can't wait for mine to look like that!!!

[jcs003]

Originally posted by easyrider470
crazy that your plastics are silver...that is exactly what my bike looks like...only I have full elkas and lower suspension out front....looks really nice though...can't wait for mine to look like that!!!

thank you for the compliment. i actually wanted all black but got a good deal on the silver fenders. im still wanting to upgrade my shocks. i had some nice derisi shocks on my 400ex before i sold it. i should of swapped it with the stockers.

funny thing is i cracked my cylinder sleeve on my third riding outing and went over budget. it is a fun bike to ride though. she will back in business in a month or so.

[tsaun987]

This is awesome man! Now I cant decide whether to buy a 250r or to just buy the motor and do a swap... hmmmm...
Again, bad *** man. Nice work!
tyler

[jcs003]

Originally posted by tsaun987
This is awesome man! Now I cant decide whether to buy a 250r or to just buy the motor and do a swap... hmmmm...
Again, bad *** man. Nice work!
tyler

it would probably be cheaper just to get a 250r. right now they are pretty cheap. i had a bunch of extra parts from when i had my 400ex. i just bought a frame and modded it along with ht eextra 250r parts i had.

[mxracer87]

Any ideas on doing this with a 450R Frame? I started a new thread trying to get ideas for that type of build.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438054

[jcs003]

new cylinder. with bling!

[jcs003]

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[michaelopfer]

damn!!!!.. big blingin... you polish that yourself.. i tried doin one for mine like a year ago, and never finished.. polishing them cylinders are a *ucking *ITCH... very time consuming... looking good!!

[jcs003]

Originally posted by michaelopfer
damn!!!!.. big blingin... you polish that yourself.. i tried doin one for mine like a year ago, and never finished.. polishing them cylinders are a *ucking *ITCH... very time consuming... looking good!!

no i bought this. my other cylinder had a cracked sleeve so, it was cheaper to buy this from BDT motorsports.

[JOHNDOE83]

Excellent work, looks great!

[jcs003]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
Excellent work, looks great!

thank you sir.

[jcs003]

new cylinder on and got to love the shine.

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[michaelopfer]

Man. looking great.. now all you need is a suspension package to lower it a tad, and add more bling.. that thing would REALLY stand out then.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by michaelopfer
Man. looking great.. now all you need is a suspension package to lower it a tad, and add more bling.. that thing would REALLY stand out then.

thanks. definitly need new suspension. money is tight these days. but im always looking for a deal so i might get lucky.

[slamdak8782]

Paint the front hubs would look better imo

[86 Quad R]

i dont know how i missed this build :huh reminds me of the one i did a few years ago using a 4 mill stroker. it was damn fun to ride but was short lived as someone decided they needed it more than i(stolen).

i have been thinking of doing another because i loved the shorter wheel base in conjunction with the power of the R engine. :D


Great build!!! you done a good job with her. http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Thumbsup2.gif

[400exrider26400]

Originally posted by jcs003
thank you for the compliment. i actually wanted all black but got a good deal on the silver fenders. im still wanting to upgrade my shocks. i had some nice derisi shocks on my 400ex before i sold it. i should of swapped it with the stockers.

funny thing is i cracked my cylinder sleeve on my third riding outing and went over budget. it is a fun bike to ride though. she will back in business in a month or so.


How did you cracked the sleeve ?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by slamdak8782
Paint the front hubs would look better imo

i never painted them because im waiting to get some billet front hubs. it just has been taking a while. maybe i should paint them in the mean time.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
i dont know how i missed this build :huh reminds me of the one i did a few years ago using a 4 mill stroker. it was damn fun to ride but was short lived as someone decided they needed it more than i(stolen).

i have been thinking of doing another because i loved the shorter wheel base in conjunction with the power of the R engine. :D


Great build!!! you done a good job with her. http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Thumbsup2.gif

i actually like the way it handles compared to my 86R. maybe its because i had a 400ex before i got the R. it may also have to do with this being alot lighter than my R.

thanks for the compliment randy. i hope you build one and i can follow your progress on a thread..

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 400exrider26400
How did you cracked the sleeve ?

not exactly sure. but, i believe it was piston/ring wear in conjuction with me being on my last bore. the base gasket went prior to the damage or relating to the cylinder sleeve.

i will take a pic soon and put it up on this thread and in the 250r section.

Looks great, awesome build, that cylinder-head are awesome! Great job, keep the up-dates coming.

[bobizzle]

man, i cant belive i missed this entire build. i was working on a 250r hybrid, the same as yours, but i went and picked up a 250r almost complete, but in parts. im using the 250r frame for now to drop my motr in, but i have another motor that im building to put on the 400 frame. the one thing i have to ask is how you did your motor mounts. i skimmed over everything really quickly, but did you use the 400 front motor mounts, is this correct. i know the middle and rear have to be custom made. thanks, and great build.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by bobizzle
man, i cant belive i missed this entire build. i was working on a 250r hybrid, the same as yours, but i went and picked up a 250r almost complete, but in parts. im using the 250r frame for now to drop my motr in, but i have another motor that im building to put on the 400 frame. the one thing i have to ask is how you did your motor mounts. i skimmed over everything really quickly, but did you use the 400 front motor mounts, is this correct. i know the middle and rear have to be custom made. thanks, and great build.

uou just use the 86 style rear mount. the bottom and head-stay are custom. i used i think two left mounts and cut out a clearence for the cases.

[Baileygunns]

I might have missed it but... What did you use for you coolant lines? What temp are they rated for? Do you have any time on them and do they get all "wet noodle" like when the bike comes to temp?

I think that looks better than the CV4 hoses, nice touch!

[jcs003]

Originally posted by Baileygunns
I might have missed it but... What did you use for you coolant lines? What temp are they rated for? Do you have any time on them and do they get all "wet noodle" like when the bike comes to temp?

I think that looks better than the CV4 hoses, nice touch!

i used the lines nylon reinforced tubing that they sell at home depot/lowes etc.

they work good. if you follow a few steps.\

1. make sure they never touch hot metal directly. they will begin to fail from this.

2. after engine is warm and tubes soften. you must retighten the hoses to make sure they dont blow off.

my hoses have custom routing so the stock or aftermarket hoses would not work.

[jcs003]

new rubber:D

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[jcs003]

gettin er dirty!

[bobizzle]

nice.... do you mind taking a picture of the motor mounts for me so i can see how you did yours.

i put my 400 frame in the top of my shop for now and im finishing up my trx frame at the moment.

thanks

[jcs003]

Originally posted by bobizzle
nice.... do you mind taking a picture of the motor mounts for me so i can see how you did yours.

i put my 400 frame in the top of my shop for now and im finishing up my trx frame at the moment.

thanks

if you look through the whole thread all the pics and explanations are there. if those dont suffice, i will take others.

[jcs003]

the winter rebuild has begun. i have parts at powdercoat. boyesen rad valve to be installed. new suspension on the way. plus the mandatory bearing lubeing and/or replacing. also, some minor mods have benn performed on the chassis.

stay tuned. pics to come.

[jcs003]

skid plate mounting tabs removed from swingarm. saved 1lb. maybe insignifigant but if there not being used then its beneficial.

[jcs003]

2.

[jcs003]

swingarm powdercoated.

[jcs003]

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[jcs003]

front hubs.

[jcs003]

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[jcs003]

front shocks.

[jcs003]

custom engine skid. made from UHMW.

[DragonGunner]

Reminds me of a young guy I raced with years ago that had a dirtbike 250R in his 400EX, everything else was stock. It had more vibration in it but man that kid was fast on it. Great job on the build.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by DragonGunner
Reminds me of a young guy I raced with years ago that had a dirtbike 250R in his 400EX, everything else was stock. It had more vibration in it but man that kid was fast on it. Great job on the build.

thanks for the comment. if you read through the whole thread you know i basically built it with leftover parts from my 86 trx250r and my 99 400ex. funny thing is after i built this, i sold the ex and my 250r sits. i like being out there with something to talk about. people always thought the 250r was unique in my area. this has other riders very interested. plus, its fun to build our own unique machines.

[DragonGunner]

Originally posted by jcs003
thanks for the comment. if you read through the whole thread you know i basically built it with leftover parts from my 86 trx250r and my 99 400ex. funny thing is after i built this, i sold the ex and my 250r sits. i like being out there with something to talk about. people always thought the 250r was unique in my area. this has other riders very interested. plus, its fun to build our own unique machines.

10 yrs. ago my buddys got me into MX racing, they had trx250R an Banshee's. All you heard was the 2 stroke motors an the smell....slowly
it changed an now you seldom see or hear the 250R quads...or even bikes whinning sound....now I miss it, an always take notice when I hear a 2 stroke...still an always will be cool. You bet its fun to build your own machine!!!!! I may have to pick up a trx250R to fix up someday just to hear it when I want!!!

[jcs003]

rear shock. got it used for a good price so i hope it will work good and wont have to spend another $200 for a rebuild.

[jcs003]

HLS fronts.

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[jcs003]

rear shock hanging for now.

[jcs003]

a few more parts have been powdercoated.

[jcs003]

another.

[jcs003]

again.

[86 Quad R]

looking goed mayun. keep up the goed work. http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Ok.gif

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
looking goed mayun. keep up the goed work. http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Ok.gif

thanks randy. you were a big help working out some of the bugs on this motor. i barely have ridden my 86 250r since i built this.

[86 Quad R]

i hear ya mayun...... i got my eyes on one thats been setting up awhile. i think an 03. just waiting a lil bit longer. http://forums.everything2stroke.com/images/smilies/Pardon.gif

[jcs003]

found some graphics that appeal to me. more specifically because i am a cadillac guy. tell me what you think of them with my color scheme. they will have a black background and silver details to go with my silver fenders.

her they are:

http://www.amrracing.com/catalog/quad-graphics/honda-trx-400ex-atv-quad-graphic-kit-1999-2007-111.html

[jcs003]

another pic of graphics:

[jcs003]

larger pic:

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[wild250rman]

Nice build. Needs a lonestar sub-frame. Lol

[jcs003]

Originally posted by wild250rman
Nice build. Needs a lonestar sub-frame. Lol

haha. it would have one if the weather would of cooperated saturday.

[jcs003]

here is the subframe. c/o wild250rman. practically new LSR piece.

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[wild250rman]

hope it works for you and maybe see it in action on the track and trails soon.

[JOHNDOE83]

MAN!!! that thing is looking good.

Its came a long way since the last time I was in the hybrid section....lol.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
MAN!!! that thing is looking good.

Its came a long way since the last time I was in the hybrid section....lol.

thanks alot. i wasnt going to spend alot of money getting it together at first until i recognized all the flaws.

[jcs003]

got the ASV levers coming. very excited about this part.

[250x_kyle]

looks good who did the powder work?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 250x_kyle
looks good who did the powder work?

Allegheny metal finishers (AMF). his prices are the lowest i have seen.

[wild250rman]

looking good have you been tearing up the snow on it yet?:p

[SRH]

Originally posted by jcs003
another pic of graphics:

i had those on my scrambler, there nice quality, id say itd look good

[jcs003]

Originally posted by wild250rman
looking good have you been tearing up the snow on it yet?:p

no just got the carb and rad valve back on today.

the subframe looks good on there. but, it was a pain in the you know what to get installed.

[jcs003]

couple pics. still got to repolish some things.

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[wild250rman]

looks like your build is coming along good. now if you could talk honda into building one.:D

[jcs003]

Originally posted by wild250rman
looks like your build is coming along good. now if you could talk honda into building one.:D

was coming along until i noticed my rear shock leaking oil. another $150 to fix that. oh well!

[wild250rman]

Originally posted by jcs003
was coming along until i noticed my rear shock leaking oil. another $150 to fix that. oh well! better now than on the trail somewhere. sounds like you are getting all the bugs worked out.

[jcs003]

rear bumper. in need of suggestions for a front bumper in this style.

[jcs003]

here is some pics of updates, and how it sits today.

17181044221718104423171810442417181044251718104426

there is a new -1 swinger and a 38 kehein pwk airstryker carb. the quad runs great.

john

[jcs003]

Bump for a walk down memory lane.

John