best place to buy 416 piston/cam kit

[redrizza]

Where is the best place to buy a piston and cam kit, or parts seperately? I'm pretty sure I'm intersted in a 10.8:1 compression piston with a hotcam stage II. It needs to be a reliable mx engine, and I'm not interested in replacing valves, rods, spings, and I want it to run on 93 octane pump gas. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Dave400ex]

Well I would just get a JE Piston from the cheapest place you can find. I think C&D Racing sells JE. Instead of getting a Hotcams I would call TC Racing and get his MX Cam. You don't have to get Valve Springs or have your Rockers Harden. It's a Drop-In. You would like it better.....

how much would it cost for all of that ???
do u know??

[redrizza]

What is the price of the TC-mx grind? Does TC have a webpage? What are peoples opinion comparing TC to Hotcam? Does anyone have the 10.8:1 JE with either of these cams in their 416?

[DantheEXman]

Sorry to change the subject... But what would be a good cam for xc?

does ne one know how much it will cost if u jus get the 416 kit w/ the drop in mx cam but dont get the harden rockers plus installation ne one know how much it will cost?? or wats the cheapest place to get it from?? thanx Rob

A JE piston with all proper gaskets is gonna run ya about $140 or so and a TC MX cam is gonna run ya about $200 give or take.. 2 hours install time at a dealer is gonna run about $120 or so too..there's kind of a ball park figure...call the quadshop

[02 Red Rider]

Try Marcums $165 for the 416 kit and and bore. And I think like $130 for the XR400 Cam.

Jason

[Dave400ex]

Yeah the JE Piston should be around $140 with all Gaskets and the TC Cam is $205 I think. It's quite a bit more then the Hotcams, but I think it would be well worth it. TC Racing (http://www.tcracingengines.com) His site is still under construction. I would call and talk to Tom if I were you. He's an awesome guy.

Dan, TC also has a XC grind Cam that is $185 or so. It is also a Drop-In. I will be going with that Cam when I get the money....

[fourplay]

How do ya get in touch with Tom to talk to him about his cams? And would a 11.1 wiseco be any better quality or is the je better? For xc,Thanx

11:1 do u have to use race gas or can u jus run 93 pump gas??
thanx for the info, Rob

also where can i get the motor work done at can my local dealer do it or no or should i send it to a race shop of sum sort

[02 Red Rider]

Someone will correct me if i'm wrong, I belive that you should not go beyond a 10:8:1 for using pump gas. Where do you live maybe someone can refer you to a nearby shop you can take your motor to. I have never heard of a dealer around here that would do that kind of work, but it may depend on where you live.

Jason

levittown pennsylvania about 30 min from philly

[Dave400ex]

Tom's number is 814-723-3514. Get the JE piston, I think they are better and most guys would agree with me. For 11:1 compression I would be running race gas, or if not you will have to mix the gas half and half at least. TC is in Penn. but there would be quite a wait for you to have him do it. Hetricks could do it for you. Also FDO would be great. What you looking to have done?

[Ex'r Marlin]

Originally posted by 400mxracing
also where can i get the motor work done at can my local dealer do it or no or should i send it to a race shop of sum sort I would recommend a "race shop of sum sort" over a local dealer, unless you know their reputation.

I got some of my engine work for my 400 done at B&B Enterprises in Bear, Delaware... Not all that far from Levittown, PA. Anyway, I highly recommend Butch's work!:) Butch Biesecker 302-836-2012.

Good luck guys going with the 416 kit! I hope you know what you are getting into... It will make a very noticeable difference with a 10.8 to 1 and a stage 2 Hotcam!!!!:cool:

Note: You may need to get an aftermarket exhaust to help your engine perform correctly after this mod.

Fourplay... I read in Dirtwheels that they recommended the Wiseco 10.5 to 1 piston for their 440. They stated that Wiseco has some kind of special coating on the piston.

I too have heard the recommendation for staying with a 10.8 to 1 or lower for 93/94 octane pump gas on your 400ex. I think due to the engine being air cooled rather than liquid cooled.

[mysticfalcon]

If youre gonna do it and you want the hand of someone thats done it before let me know. Id be glad to go down and give you a hand. It beats payn a dealer. and id like to get a chance to ride with ya sometime once i get my r back together.

[YZROOSTINYA]

my bud has a 11:1 stock bore wiseco and he runs pump with no probs.

i have a 416 je 10.8:1 and i run 93/94

i suggest the hotcam stage 2

i like it over my buds white brother all around alot.

i think people refer TC because he is a nice guy but i personally dont think his cam is any better than a hotcam. i have never ridden a tc bike so i really wouldn't know

if his grinds are the same or very similar then your not gonna tell the diff. unless he is building your motor then i would go with a hotcam. i have had no probs with mine and you can get them for 110-130 depending on the dealer

i would suggest at least a slip on when going to a larger bore high comp with cam set up

[redrizza]

Originally posted by mysticfalcon
Id be glad to go down and give you a hand. It beats payn a dealer.
Hey mystic, I couldn't remember your s/n and was hoping you'd show up. I already have the engine torn down because I had to replace my shift spindle, so now it's ready for the top end to be put back together. I figured I'd try to get a little more power out of her while she's apart. :)

Thanks for everyones input, it will be put to good use:devil

Redrizza and anyone thinking on doing internal performance motor mods I seriously suggest taking the time and doing some searches on this subject on this site. There is some very informative threads on everything from true compression ratios and decking cylinders to cam comparisons and piston coatings.

I have found so much useable info searching this site that I couldnt post it all in one thread. It will take some time but also be well worth it since you will get enough info to educate yourself enough to be asking the right questions etc.

I may be repeating my replies to the other thousand posts on this subject but the following is basicaly what I had recomended to the countless others before you.

Basicly for the most bang for your buck you will need to upgrade to a high comp piston (any bore you like and 10.5:1 and up "actuall comp not just the piston rating") a higher lift and duration cam to allow it to "breathe" better and a less restrictive intake and exhaust to allow the engine to be able to move all the extra air and fuel it can now handle. There are many other little things that can also be done but these are where the major increases come from.

Make sure you read thru the tech articles from Q&A with Mickey dunlap and a thread " have you decked the cylinder" as these two alone will answer more questions than you now have. Be prepared to spend about an hour reading thru these and yes it is worth it.

Good luck have fun and please dont mind my roost :)

[YZROOSTINYA]

i am talking about advertised comp ratios in my post, keep thst in mind

[DantheEXman]

So where can I get the 416 JE piston and all of the rings i need to put it back together right? Is the Sparks 416GNCC Kin any good? Or sholuld I go with the 416 with the TC XC grind or the hotcams. Thanks

[YZROOSTINYA]

i beleive the sparks is a 12.5 :1 which is way too high for my needs

any place that sells pistons should be able to get one for you, ask for a 87mm piston, i am sure the quad shhop could hook you up

if you wanna spend 200 on a cam get a tc

if you wanna spend 120 get a hotcam, thats about the only diff that i see

but i only have real world experiance withthe hotcam2

Duh :)

[YZROOSTINYA]

i know, but its kinda a stupid question , the page in the links section has about 20 dif places to buy pistons......

maybe take a look for yourself and see what price you come up with

i got mine from marcums but it was missing a few seals

[Dave400ex]

Get the TC XC Cam. I will bet on it, that it is better then the Hotcams. I have talked to a few guys that have said the Hotcams isn't so hot. I suggest getting it because that Cam is made for XC, and Greg Trew uses it. Then just get a JE 416 Piston from the cheapest place you find. I suggest while you have your motor torn down to have the Piston, Valves, and Valve Springs coated by HP Coatings....

[redrizza]

Does the piston come with the neccessary rings? I have a new head gasket already for the stock bore. Will I need to get a different gasket or should this one fit?

[YZROOSTINYA]

YOU WILL NEED LARGER GASKETS and the rings tyically come with the piston along with the wrist pin and circlips, but double check with the seller at the time you order it

[luvmyex]

Im about to go with the je piston and hotcamII.In the clymer manual it says to replace several O-rings in places.Does this really need to be done?Or should i just use the same one that are there now?

[mysticfalcon]

Ryan id say try the TC cam if youve got the $$ theres been a couple people complaining about the quality of the hotcam. i remember hearing something about striping the splines. but if you dont have the $$ its a cheep alternative. just wanna tear the headcover off once in a while to check on it. but thats easy.

[YZROOSTINYA]

almost 40 hours of abuse on mine with no probs.

i replaced the base o-ring and left the valve cover o rings alone

[Dave400ex]

The piston will come with all Rings and then you will need to get the Gaskets and the one for stock bore will not fit. Yeah I really suggest trying the TC Cam.

[redrizza]

I ended up going with the JE 10.8:1 and hotcams stage II. When I ordered it through my local shop there was not a gasket for the 416, but only the 400 and 440's. So they called the parts supplier (I believe it was parts unlimited) and talked to their techsupport. Their techsupport said that there is not a gasket for the 416 and that you just use the stock gasket. I hope there right. Anyone able to give me some details on their personal experience with the gasket size?

[EX 80]

I am pretty sure the 416 uses the stock head gasket. I order mine from when i got my piston (powroll). I think i am getting ripped every time cause it looks exactly like a stock head gasket. I was told that they are the same as stock but i continue to buy them from powroll, oh well.

I rebuillt the top end and clutch on my quad, but nothing on tranny :eek: hope it won't give me any problems. It felt fine at end of year. I left it alone cause it a honda :). If something happens looks like i will have 2 400ex's.

I have been rebuilding entire quad this winter here is a pic of it. I am much further than that now.

[Dave400ex]

Wow that looks awesome what color of Frame is that?

I am not sure if there is a 416 gasket or not but I dont think there is one, but I wouldnt worry about it either way cause you wont have any problems with the stk gasket with that small of an over bore.

The 440 that came with the quad when I bought it had the stk bore gasket in it, added a little compression but since it sits above the cyl there wasnt any problem. It was changed to the correct one later after I had the motor apart the first time.

[EX 80]

warrior man- the frame color is pearlized black. thanks for complement. I will post a pic in a tread in the open forum when i am get further along. I only posted that pic cause i race the same classes as redrizza, he knows me from racing.

You guys have to stop posting all the pics of the frame up stuff cause I have been talking myself out of tearing this thing down for 2 months and your posting pics of these great looing frames isnt helping me. :D

Well the fact that honda did such a crappy job on the frame isnt helping either :(

[Dave400ex]

Did you see the Pictures of Rico's frame? I would have that done if I was you. Only $375 for everything. I think I would have a hard time remembering where everything went if I tore mine down to the frame....

I think I missed rico's do you kow which thread? or have a link?

I will admit there are a lot of parts involved but there is only I dont want to deal with if I dont have to: the swing arm pivot bolt.

Just allways seemed to be a real pain everytime I watched someone cursing away trying to get it out :)

Otherwise I think I have rebuilt replaced or just lubed up every other part a few times so the rest would be OK to remember.

[bmw500hp]

If a 416 is what you seek..You may consider doing a search of posts by ( king rage) ...King (DEE), is an engine builder and racer who has some solid information on building a 416 based on your needs... Calling Dee might also be an option...

[trx400ex]

Can i ask you how you got you engine so shiny and awesome looking? Man i wish i could afford one of those hinson clutch covers. Thanks

Pearlized Black

[Dave400ex]

Here you go 440EX4me http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39727&pagenumber=1

:) thanx

Too bad they went and closed that one just as it was getting good.

[YZROOSTINYA]

my gaskets said 86mm when i put my 416 in from cometic, i am going to change to a thinner .025 gasket.

i think i have the wrong size on mine as it hangs in the cylinder slightly.

[redrizza]

EX80 - If our first race is muddy, I'm so sorry for all the time you have put in to making that thing look so clean and shiny. YIKES! Looks good though. Just the oposite of mine. My bike is scrached and missing frame paint everywhere. Oh well :devil Just ride it.

So if I have a stock thickness head gasket, and use liquid gasket under the cylindar should that get my quench down enought to get the 10.8:1 compression ratio I'm looking for. I know they discussed this a lot in the "cylindar decked" thread. I think 440EX4me was part of that conversation.

TRX400EX- Noticed something in your pic of your frame. Is your caster off a whole lot? Looks like upper joint is leading the lower joint, well at least it looks that way in the pic.

[EX 80]

redrizza- Yup everyone keeps telling me its going to kill me to rip it throught the mud, which it will. I might ask one of my friends who never rides his 400ex if i can use it for rainy or muddy races.

[Dave400ex]

I think TRX400ex just put his a-arms on in that picture and doesn't have them all adjusted yet....

[trx400ex]

440EX4ME- I havent messed with that yet, the upper balljoint isnt even tightened up yet, im just going to wait till i get shocks and the wheels on it then ill mess with it. Thanks for the heads up tho.

[DantheEXman]

Somebody please explain to me why a stock 400ex head gasket wont work on a 416. Wouldent it just be a compression issue? And that if you wanted more power to go to a thinner gasket? Someone correct and help me understand. Thanks