Sparks a-t-k will it work with build?

[monkeyballs]

Ok I would like to know if sparks advance timing key would work with this build.. I run supreem gas.. And I dont feel like having to use octain boosters aka racing gas..

-HC stg 1
-11:1 wiseco light weight piston
-Miled port and polish
-Crf 450r timing chain
-Tusk clutch
-Clutch basket
-416 87mm boar
-k&n air filter with pre charger
-Full system yosh pipe no sprk ar
-future mod 450r carb......
Would there be pre ignition? Any one ever try? Its going 2 cost so little and I alredy have the gaskets... What do you think

Thanks take r ez.

[matt14c]

I'am pretty sure that people are running the key with the 416. If you do a search you should be able to find it rather easy. If your worried you could easily sell it on here and I think its baldwin that makes a 3 degree advance instead of the sparks 6 degree for the larger bores.

[0101]

I think you would be fine. Ive heard of people running it with 416s and had no problems

[drew416ex]

What do you mean by "octane boosters aka racing gas". That would mean that octane booster is the same as race gas.

[Wheelie]

I run a key with a modded motor and it works great so far. Very noticeable difference in power throughout.

If you're going to run the key with 11:1, run atleast 100 octane just to be safe. DO NOT use octane booster, it's junk. Run race gas 50/50 with supreme to increase octane properly.

[Pipeless416]

im kind of wondering the same thing. my setup is an 11:1 87mm with a cometic thin base gasket. i have a stage 2 cam, hd studs, and a key. i'm thinking it will be ok because i have an fst auxiliary cooler, and a SPAL fan. i'm thinking with this cooling setup i should be alright.

[monkeyballs]

Dam, I dont feel like having to run race gas :(. I like taking it straight from the pump. And pipless416 I dont think it will make much of a diff if you have the spal fan or fst cooler. The pre ignition is not caused by hot spots it is caused by the air becoming so compressed that it has so much friction that it heats up and explodes.... Then I noticed that you are running hd head studs, were they needed? Or did you put them just to reassure yourself? (I dont have them so :-s) And I think I should put in a spal or one more cooler. On my to do list :D.

Then wheelie how much is the 50/50? Also, you said its a very noticable diffrence comparible to any other mods?

Thanks take it easy

[Wheelie]

I'm still running stock head studs, over 3 years now--no problems. I built my motor before I knew it was a potential issue.

Last time I bought race gas, it was $6/gal for 110. Now I run the E85 blend, E85 is 1.60/gal in my area and it's 105 octane.

Once I got my jetting dialed in, the power difference from the key and E85 was greater than the power increase given by the 450R carb.

If you do decide to install the key, you may want to bump the main jet a size or two to keep the jetting proper. I had to bump the main jet from a 230 to a 240 after the key install. I then went to a 245 after I increased the E85 content to 75%. A tank of fuel doesn't last long, but it's worth it.:macho

why run 11:1? i'm pretty sure if you just went with 10:1 you would be safe for pump gas.

[monkeyballs]

Originally posted by Wheelie
I'm still running stock head studs, over 3 years now--no problems. I built my motor before I knew it was a potential issue.

Last time I bought race gas, it was $6/gal for 110. Now I run the E85 blend, E85 is 1.60/gal in my area and it's 105 octane.

Once I got my jetting dialed in, the power difference from the key and E85 was greater than the power increase given by the 450R carb.

If you do decide to install the key, you may want to bump the main jet a size or two to keep the jetting proper. I had to bump the main jet from a 230 to a 240 after the key install. I then went to a 245 after I increased the E85 content to 75%. A tank of fuel doesn't last long, but it's worth it.:macho

Wow, 240! I am currently running 155 dyno jet and im pretty sure I can go one size down and it will be perfect (that sound right). Im guessing your jetting is so high becaus you have the 450r carb? Becaus 240 is massive.

Then lucky guy that isanely cheep for gas.. Around here its 89 cents a liter of supreem (94 octain). (Also im in canada)

Thats must be a pretty big diff. I will have a 450r carb in 2 months or so once my friend with a 450 upgrades.. How long will a tank of gas last you? I normaly ride with my friend and his 480 and his is pretty bad on gas... So I dont worry about my gas supply I just go by when he fills up lol. But 240 main is pretty big so idk..

Are you running a spal fan, oversized oil cooler, or shrouds. I think my next mod will be the cooling shrouds since its cheep, easy and should help alot.

Then as for 10.5:1 its to late I alredy put 11:1 and I dont feel like changing it back. And it would kinda defeat the purpos.. Becaus I would loose power but gain power so..

Take it ez ty

[Wheelie]

I ran a 200 with the 450R carb and gasoline. E85 requires 25-30% more fuel, hence the need for the 245.

Ethanol has 2.5 times the latent heat vaporization of gasoline. In laymens terms, Ethanol cools the engine much more than gasoline. I'm also running a 4" SPAL fan.

Everyone is so fond of just compression but that doesnt yield the highest gains its the right combo of compression and timing. Compression doesn't change flame front speed. Octane doesn't change flame front speed. Flame front speed is the largest factor in when cylinder pressures peak, so since flame front speed is relatively fixed, ignition timing is the biggest key. The moral of the story is, build your engine in whatever compression you need for your cam, set the timing for peak power. So with a bigger cam you add more compression to get it back to stock compression and then advance the timing for the most power.

[monkeyballs]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
Everyone is so fond of just compression but that doesnt yield the highest gains its the right combo of compression and timing. Compression doesn't change flame front speed. Octane doesn't change flame front speed. Flame front speed is the largest factor in when cylinder pressures peak, so since flame front speed is relatively fixed, ignition timing is the biggest key. The moral of the story is, build your engine in whatever compression you need for your cam, set the timing for peak power. So with a bigger cam you add more compression to get it back to stock compression and then advance the timing for the most power.

Yes but the max power of an engine is pretty much bassed on the compression. So more comp more potential.

Then wheelie, b4 you uped the e85 content you were running 25% e85? And thats pretty awsome that it needs 25% more fuel but runs cooler then.. Im curious on where I could get that around here.. Canada / Ont / Sudbury.. Did you actualy notice much of a diffrence heat wise?

Take it ez

[Wheelie]

Before I upped the E85 content, I was running 70% E85. At the end of last year, I was running a 50/50 blend of 110 race gas and premium. I decided to switch to an E85 blend this spring.

Straight E85 requires 25-30% more fuel compared to gasoline.

The engine ran slightly cooler after the swap, and warm up time was longer.

[monkeyballs]

I see, well I found a gas station that sells E85. I realy want to get the advance timing key and run E85. Thought im realy worried about over heating. I was talking to some one who ran my build but with a hc stg 2 and no E85 and he said it ran to hot... I am no drag racer simply a week-end warrior. I ride for long periods of time (untill im out of gas) in 10 to 40 deg C weather not always WOT some times just putting around... Then my friend also told me to, run a xr400 head gasket. One more mod I might consider.

But all im wondering is how my bike will coop with the atk, 450r carb with the E85. Sound like somethign that I should do? And how long will one tank of gas last you? Well thanks take it ez

[Wheelie]

I don't drag race either, I'm a weekend warrior just like yourself.

EX's run warm stock, with a few mods they can run even warmer. This is why a fan is a good idea.

I'm not sure how long a tank of fuel will last, as I haven't run my quad to empty yet. If I had to guess, I'd say about 4 hours, maybe less. All depends on how hard I ride. I'd be surprised if a tank last much over 3 hours at the dunes with my current setup.

[monkeyballs]

Right on week end warrior! I can do with 3 hours. Well I am looking foward to converting my bike. So you probably have a spal fan? Does your bike overheat and define overheat :-s? Then should I run pure E85 or a blend? I like the E85 cuz its runs cooler. And how much of a diffrence did you notice for each mod. (-450r carb -E85 -ATK) Thanks take it ez

[Wheelie]

The 450R carb improved throttle response and top end horsepower, but lost low-mid range torque. The key gained that lost torque back and then some. E85 improved throttle response slightly, and made the machine rev quicker. It also made a slight difference in power throughout the powerband. I didn't have E85 tuned perfectly for very long before I installed the key.

Read this post on E85:http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=342067

I was one of the first, if not the first people to install the 4" SPAL fan. Works great, read the sticky on top of this sub-forum for install pics done by Nacs.

[monkeyballs]

Man im looking foward to this! Ok, my friend just said that he once filled up on E85 in his truck and it smelled like chip stand.. Is that right?

Then... Here is my build that I am planning on accomplishing.

-E85 fuel
-Hc stg 1
-450r carb
-yoshi pipe full system
-K&n air filter with pre charger
-416 bore (87mm)
-wiseco light weight piston 11:1
-Advance timing key 6 deg
-xr400 head gasket (thiner)
-Miled port and polish

Now im wondering how my build will take these mods. If the E85 has enough octane to stop pre ignition with a high comp, thinner gasket, and S.A.T.K. What do you think? This thing will roar! I cant wait.. Then last mod after that would be to get a stg 2 hot cam but... Any who take it easy thanks

[Wheelie]

I'm running about 11.3:1 compression and don't have any pinging. My 75% blend of E85 yields about 102 octane, straight E85 is 105.

The smell from the exhaust of my quad is very unique, I think it smells good. I describe the smell as a corn cob in a microwave.

[monkeyballs]

Originally posted by Wheelie
I'm running about 11.3:1 compression and don't have any pinging. My 75% blend of E85 yields about 102 octane, straight E85 is 105.

The smell from the exhaust of my quad is very unique, I think it smells good. I describe the smell as a corn cob in a microwave. How did you get the .3 comp?

[Wheelie]

That's what Powroll advertises. It's a 10.8:1 416 piston with the 4 mil stroker. The stroker increases cylinder volume at BDC, which in turn slightly increase compression when used with the off the shelf piston.

[monkeyballs]

Ohh..... I see. I wonder how much the head gasket will up the compression by. MAN I CANT WAIT FOR ALL THIS! It will be insane! So manny mods! I LOVE IT! And I read the link you sent to me.. And every post is positive other then the ruber wich is not a problem. Awsome stuf!

[drew416ex]

Just my opinion but I would say go with a stage 2 hotcam. I had basically the same setup without the key and it still had plenty of low end. Just a thought.

[monkeyballs]

Yes I would of went with the stg 2 if I did not get screwed over by my dealer.. I wanted to return it but since it was a special order grr.. Im not alowed.. I kinda want to sell it now and get a stg 1 but I have no clue what i could get for the stg 1 and if any one will buy it.. Thanks, its still a pretty fun build.

[0101]

^wait so youre selling a stage 1 or a stage 2?

If its a stage 1, ill take it lol

[monkeyballs]

Its a stg 1. And yes :D I am willing to sell. Pm me all your info.