The American Auto Industry

[hondariderdylan]

Detroit is spiraling
everyone knows it
but i wanted to start a discussion to see what other people though
a day or two ago chrysler went bankrupt,GM has borrowed tons of $ that im not sure they will be able to pay back in the near future,ford hasent borrowed $ yet, one sign of hope,every day i see toyota and honda dealers with trucks full of new cars on them sitting out front and getting more and more of a foothold in our country

domestics?
not at all
i dont like it at all

discuss...........:mad:

[feuerstack411]

es ist scheiße.


seriously though, GM and Ford make great cars in other markets. GM makes awesome cars in Australia, and Ford makes awesome cars in Europe, but America gets the crap from GM and Ford. Ditch the unions and build a decent car, then GM and Ford can possibly come back. But the damage has been done from the wonderful products of the 80s and 90s.

oh by the way, want to know something funny? Honda's and Toyota's are more domestic than most of the "American" cars. Almost every Honda and Toyota is built in America, were as GM builds their cars in Mexico and other countries, same with Ford. The only good cars that GM has released recently(CTS-V, G8 solstice) have been from other markets. The CTS and G8 are both Australian and the Solstice came from GM's German company Opel, same with the new Saturns.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by feuerstack411
[B]
oh by the way, want to know something funny? Honda's and Toyota's are more domestic than most of the "American" cars. Almost every Honda and Toyota is built in America, were as GM builds their cars in Mexico and other countries, same with Ford. /B]

Gotta agree . My Tundra was built in Indiana. I know of a few of Honda's cars and SUVs are built here in Ontario Canada .

Dodge lost some craftmanship when they started building things in Mexico.

I think when they start building vehicles that people want, that are quality built and that will have a great resale value , then people will start buying domestic again.

My neighbours Tacoma had a recall because of frame rot ..... Toyota gave him $17 000 for the truck .... he paid $25 000 for it new and drove it for almost 10 years.

[hondariderdylan]

i agree with all of this

that outsourcing is killing detroit
they just got done mowing down the ford plant in atlanta

hope it gets better

[Johnny Minehan]

Originally posted by hondarider11
I know this is a little off topic but I am amazed that nobody put a cat engine in a diesel truck yet. Yes I know ford has a international engine gm has duramax and dodge has cummins but if toyota or ford put a cat diesel in their trucks the sales would be rediculous. Everyone who knows anything about big trucks knows cat and cummins are the best engines made and many prefer cat over cummins so why not throw their motor in a pick-up? I think that would give one of the companies a huge edge when it comes to pick-up sales since they are down. Going back on topic I have always been ford but recently I am liking toyota alot.

Toyota is getting CAT motors next year :D

[feuerstack411]

plus your everyday Ford/GM/Dodge can't do this..

part1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc4Ksz3nHM
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZDtC9kjVk

[hondariderdylan]

wow

im astonished:eek2:

i would like to try that with an OLDER domestic
the new platic crap they make nowadays cant do that

[feuerstack411]

Originally posted by hondariderdylan
wow

im astonished:eek2:

i would like to try that with an OLDER domestic
the new platic crap they make nowadays cant do that

After being around my friends 86 Chevy k10, I HIGHLY doubt the Chevy would survive any of that, sure its made out of metal, but its still garbage IMO.

Originally posted by hondariderdylan
Detroit is spiraling
everyone knows it

I think its always been that way lol anyways America just couldnt step up there game they are too far behind the imports. Alright so why is the United States so fond of the bigger the vehicle the better. Dont get me wrong there are some bad arse big trucks but the money spent on the truck and for the gas... I'll be hated on for thisbut the American auto makers might just have the worst engineers ever. They thought so highly of the Chevy Volt which can only go 40 miles?! There are many imports far exceedng that. Reliability, domestic here you start to worry about milage and what is going to go. Drive a Honda and 200,000 miles is nothing. Resale value you get nothing back for your vehicle when its American. Quit paying your janitors $50 an hour to clean a ****ter and giving pensions where people can retire and make $60,000 a year from building cars. Quit designing poor vehicles and using cheaper parts. Stop making a huge variety like extended versions of the Navigator or Excursion. Toyota built the toughest truck how the hell did that happen when we are clearly one of the very few countries that like the big tough vehicles. Even Toyota in NASCAR they had to restrict them more because they could put out another 10HP or so because they have brains behind their operations. I could design a better vehicle than a Hummer or Aztek (rated worst vehicle ever built BTW). Problem is paying too much for ****. Plain and simple **** engineers, paying workers too much...

[suck my pipe]

That is impressive specially since it had 190,000 miles on it before this torture started.

[Guy400]

Two things have led to the American automakers demise: 1.) UAW and 2.) Aged styling and sacrificed quality.

If the domestics would dump the unions than they would have a chance. You can't stay in business when you allow for voluntary OT on Christmas Day for triple time when the line isn't even running. $27/hour for a broom-pusher? Come on, a college intern making $8/hour could do that and learn the plant on the job.

For years the Big 3 thought that US car buyers would just forever purchase their vehicles mindlessly so why over-engineer? Why make it any better than it needs to be? This is where the planned obsolescence principle backfired...and big time. Although actual reliability data has shown GM and Ford to be on par with the imports over the last decade or so they have to now fight off a 30 year old negative image.

As far as the Chevy Volt, that's 40 miles on electric only. To my knowledge nobody else does that. It was designed specifically for that role. Research has shown that the typical commuter does less than 40 miles a day to and from work. The Volt would allow you to drive to your office and back without using a single drop of fuel. You simply plug it back in at night.

[matt14c]

Let me be the first to say that I' am a UAW member and worker and they are probably to blame the most for this. Im a partner so not actually a Chrysler, GM or Ford worker just work in there plant but there are stiffs on the assembly line that make 6 figures for screwing on brackets and crap. Things that an uneducated child could do. The other part to blame is GREED. Think if you could make 8-10 MILLION Dollars a years to drive a failing company that is going bankrupt???? I wonder how some of these guys sleep at night. Much like all the banks and people on wall st. Hell the president of GM when let go in February was given a 5.6 million dollar severance package for being fired for being a dumb *****. For any of these companies to succed pretty much all the white collar workers would have to be canned. They all make way to much money for what they do which isnt much. The plant I work at you have better chances of winning the lotto than finding a higher level salary worker on Fridays and they come in around 8 or so when we start at 6 and they are gone before we are at 3. They will all file for bankruptcy eventually because once controlled by the government or however that works void many of the UAW contracts. So then they will be able to cut wages. When the UAW folds or goes away then the domestic companies will have a much better chance at succeding.

[ben300]

Originally posted by matt14c
Let me be the first to say that I' am a UAW member and worker and they are probably to blame the most for this. Im a partner so not actually a Chrysler, GM or Ford worker just work in there plant but there are stiffs on the assembly line that make 6 figures for screwing on brackets and crap. Things that an uneducated child could do. The other part to blame is GREED. Think if you could make 8-10 MILLION Dollars a years to drive a failing company that is going bankrupt???? I wonder how some of these guys sleep at night. Much like all the banks and people on wall st. Hell the president of GM when let go in February was given a 5.6 million dollar severance package for being fired for being a dumb *****. For any of these companies to succed pretty much all the white collar workers would have to be canned. They all make way to much money for what they do which isnt much. The plant I work at you have better chances of winning the lotto than finding a higher level salary worker on Fridays and they come in around 8 or so when we start at 6 and they are gone before we are at 3. They will all file for bankruptcy eventually because once controlled by the government or however that works void many of the UAW contracts. So then they will be able to cut wages. When the UAW folds or goes away then the domestic companies will have a much better chance at succeding.

you not only hit the nail on the head, but drove it through th board

[Rastus]

There's lots of truth in this thread, Guy400 and matt are correct in my book. My family has owned GM and domestics for as long as I can remember. I haven't had the major problems some people have had with them, but that's not to say they were all trouble free. Sunfire, Grand Am, and Cavalier are quite notorious for being pieces of junk.


The fact of the matter is the domestics are better healthcare companies than they are at making cars. The only larger provider of healthcare is the US Gov't, which is why you see so much money going into legacy costs on new vehicles. It doesn't matter how many cars you sell if your legacy costs eat up all your profit, which is the position the domestics are in. In April 2009, GM delivered just alittle over 173,000 vehicles. Despite loosing money like a shot up pop can loses water, GM is still one of the world leaders in carmakers. It is very clear that the reason GM and domestics are having problems is because of the UAW and those drawing pensions.


I blame the UAW because they do not know when to stop pushing for more money. The UAW will end up pushing the companies off a cliff all in the name of getting alittle bit more for themselves. Im not against all union labor, but the UAW defending a broom pusher making close to 30$ an hour with full healthcare and pension greatly damages their image and the image of other union workers that do have a skill. Look at Toyotas plants, their workers still get paid pretty well and you don't see them crying to the government for a bailout.

But the UAW doesn't get all the blame. Administration and white collar workers are also partly to blame.

[Tommy 17]

As a Honda Associate working at the east liberty auto plant in the engineering department I can see why GM is bankrupt. I wish I could say some things on here and stuff but I just can't...


Another thing that HONDA can do that GM and the rest cant is retool our entire plant for a new model without stopping the other ones. For example my plant can run a CRV, Element, and a new model thats coming out. For this new model we haven't shut the line down one minute, GM can't do that. They shut down for months. Also their plants can build usually only one model where we can build 3 models on the line at any time and switch over instantly with zero loss. You maybe standing there and an element will come then a CRV then a civic what ever...


and btw the volt is junk. Trust me I worked on a part of it for my senior design project. Its going to cost 40,000$ and will not get the 40 miles they say on battery only. Your stupid for buying that when you can buy a Honda Insight for 19,000$ and get 65mpg! you can buy a ton of gas for the 21,000$ you save!

[RideRed84]

Blame the government for Canadian and Mexican built domestic cars and American built jap cars. They tax the hell out of the big 3 then give tax breaks to japanese auto makers to build here. Sounds a little backwards to me.

Also to the comment on the Volt, GM had to pay for all the development in the Volt's electric system and battery where the japanese government paid for the development of the prius and insight. How do you expect GM to compete with that as far as pricing goes. Plus GM is not bankrupt, you sound like and idiot saying it is.

You will never see me behind the wheel of a foreign car as long as I live. I like supporting the American economy.

[hondariderdylan]

Originally posted by RideRed84
You will never see me behind the wheel of a foreign car as long as I live. I like supporting the American economy.

agreed:)

[fasterblaster09]

6/7 of Honda's I've had read over 300,000 miles, 3 of those were over 350,000. and they all were running strong when I sold them. I've had a ford mustang crap out on me at 67,000 miles, now that's all the vehicles I've owned and all makes have their lemons, but from my experience, if I need a cheap car that I will trust more than any other make, I will get me a honda and not spend over $3,000. Hell I can get one for $1,500 if im not picky. I know this post is useless, just saying honda is awesome lol

[hondariderdylan]

well i will tell you all about the vehicles that have been in my family to date that i can talk about with knowledge, yes i know theres a bit of bias here:D:

98 ford taurus- minor problems here and there,it has hit cars,deer,ditches,curbs, and a few other things and it still runs good,it does have a habit of eating front brake rotors though

92 ford ranger- This poor truck has been ragged on while it has been with us,tranny was replaced,engine is still together somehow,WELL worn, surges a little at idle when its cold, but after that it runs fine

92 ford bronco- this is my truck, it was wrecked before we got it, but was repaired well.the only problems i remember it having are things like throwout bearings,sensors,and a fuel pump, and it has been in another fender bender courtesy of my dad and has about 700$ worth of damage and doesnt drive any different then it did before


reason for posting this is to say that NEW domestics arent what they once were:scary:
its aggravating to me

Originally posted by fasterblaster09
6/7 of Honda's I've had read over 300,000 miles, 3 of those were over 350,000. and they all were running strong when I sold them. I've had a ford mustang crap out on me at 67,000 miles, now that's all the vehicles I've owned and all makes have their lemons, but from my experience, if I need a cheap car that I will trust more than any other make, I will get me a honda and not spend over $3,000. Hell I can get one for $1,500 if im not picky. I know this post is useless, just saying honda is awesome lol

word, i'm only at 105k on the one and 135k on the other no parts have failed and both still run great, you just cant kill them.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Tommy 17

and btw the volt is junk. Trust me I worked on a part of it for my senior design project. Its going to cost 40,000$ and will not get the 40 miles they say on battery only.


i'm gonna call you out on this...

prove it.....or your full of ****

[hondariderdylan]

Originally posted by hondariderdylan
well i will tell you all about the vehicles that have been in my family to date that i can talk about with knowledge, yes i know theres a bit of bias here:D:

98 ford taurus- minor problems here and there,it has hit cars,deer,ditches,curbs, and a few other things and it still runs good,it does have a habit of eating front brake rotors though

92 ford ranger- This poor truck has been ragged on while it has been with us,tranny was replaced,engine is still together somehow,WELL worn, surges a little at idle when its cold, but after that it runs fine

92 ford bronco- this is my truck, it was wrecked before we got it, but was repaired well.the only problems i remember it having are things like throwout bearings,sensors,and a fuel pump, and it has been in another fender bender courtesy of my dad and has about 700$ worth of damage and doesnt drive any different then it did before


reason for posting this is to say that NEW domestics arent what they once were:scary:
its aggravating to me

wow
i shot myself in the foot posting that becuase i got home today and washed the bronco and went to crank it up after i let it warm up to begin with and it wouldnt fire, so i pull the radiator cap and coolant spews out

so im guessing cracked block or blown head
NEW MOTOR TIME!
i didnt like the 300 I-6 anyway:p

im guessing 5.0 or a 351 now:D

[feuerstack411]

Originally posted by hondariderdylan
well i will tell you all about the vehicles that have been in my family to date that i can talk about with knowledge, yes i know theres a bit of bias here:D:

98 ford taurus- minor problems here and there,it has hit cars,deer,ditches,curbs, and a few other things and it still runs good,it does have a habit of eating front brake rotors though

92 ford ranger- This poor truck has been ragged on while it has been with us,tranny was replaced,engine is still together somehow,WELL worn, surges a little at idle when its cold, but after that it runs fine

92 ford bronco- this is my truck, it was wrecked before we got it, but was repaired well.the only problems i remember it having are things like throwout bearings,sensors,and a fuel pump, and it has been in another fender bender courtesy of my dad and has about 700$ worth of damage and doesnt drive any different then it did before


reason for posting this is to say that NEW domestics arent what they once were:scary:
its aggravating to me

New domestics are 1000x better then the 80's and 90's domestics. The 80's, 90's and early 2000's were the worst years for domestics. Japan made some really cool cars in the 90s, the domestic brands made garbage.

Originally posted by feuerstack411
New domestics are 1000x better then the 80's and 90's domestics. The 80's, 90's and early 2000's were the worst years for domestics. Japan made some really cool cars in the 90s, the domestic brands made garbage.

IMO 90's Japanese vehicles were best. Just the ease of swapping parts and so many things fitting from one vehicle to another. Thats why I bought a 94 and 96 Civic. 94 is getting sold though then what to do with $3k? :) Maybe a little swap in the 96 and forged internals... later run some boost and what not. When I build a house I think the majority of it will be a garage. Too many toys I want. Maybe just build a garage with the upstairs done up. I'm thinking ultimate bachelor pad haha

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by ben300
i'm gonna call you out on this...

prove it.....or your full of ****


You better watch who you call out. Not everyone is a kid that lies on here.


Heres a picture of one of the slides for a power point presentation on it. I'd post the whole 41 page report on it, but I doubt you could understand it anyways:o

As for the the battery not lasting. I can't post anything on that. Sorry.

[ben300]

and you better watch out...i might understand more than you think....not everone is a dumb kid on this forum

[RideRed84]

So you post a slide showing the bumper support from the volt from your design engineering class lecture and I'm supposed to believe you know what your talking about. GM has too much riding on the Volt, it will not be a piece of crap.

[ben300]

Originally posted by RideRed84
So you post a slide showing the bumper support from the volt from your design engineering class lecture and I'm supposed to believe you know what your talking about. GM has too much riding on the Volt, it will not be a piece of crap.

[extremeblastr]

you guys are being extremely biased far as the electrical thing goes and thats probably because your to upset about the issue to realize how bad detroit has really screwed up, how is a $40,000 car that can only get that 40 miles on electricity better then one that costs $19,000 and gets an est. 65 mpg? they both have d*** near the same driving range within a few miles of each other and one costs $21,000 less. besides the fact that at this point if i was buying new i'd stay as far away from the domestics as i could because as much as i'd love to support detroit and the economy i need a vehicle i can depend on.....

[csr250r]

Originally posted by fasterblaster09
6/7 of Honda's I've had read over 300,000 miles, 3 of those were over 350,000. and they all were running strong when I sold them. I've had a ford mustang crap out on me at 67,000 miles, now that's all the vehicles I've owned and all makes have their lemons, but from my experience, if I need a cheap car that I will trust more than any other make, I will get me a honda and not spend over $3,000. Hell I can get one for $1,500 if im not picky. I know this post is useless, just saying honda is awesome lol

My 5.0 mustang has 275,000 miles on original motor, and I beat hondas all day. Too bad you had a lemon i guess. :ermm:

[Guy400]

Originally posted by extremeblastr
you guys are being extremely biased far as the electrical thing goes and thats probably because your to upset about the issue to realize how bad detroit has really screwed up, how is a $40,000 car that can only get that 40 miles on electricity better then one that costs $19,000 and gets an est. 65 mpg? they both have d*** near the same driving range within a few miles of each other and one costs $21,000 less. besides the fact that at this point if i was buying new i'd stay as far away from the domestics as i could because as much as i'd love to support detroit and the economy i need a vehicle i can depend on..... I'm a Chevy guy but I would not purchase the Volt, it just doesn't suit my needs. However, I applaud GM for continuing this project. Today's Volt might cost $40k and only go 40 miles on battery power but maybe tomorrow's Volt goes 100 miles for $25k. The point is GM is pushing the envelope and exploring territories that no other major manufacturer is willing to go into. Without researching and developing these technologies we'll never get anywhere. Remember, horse-drawn buggy makers laughed at the early internal combustion vehicles because they were expensive and couldn't do what a horse could at that time. Where is the horse and carriage now?

Originally posted by csr250r
My 5.0 mustang has 275,000 miles on original motor, and I beat hondas all day. Too bad you had a lemon i guess. :ermm:

your rollin in a 5.sl0w so... but seriously.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by RideRed84
...Also to the comment on the Volt, GM had to pay for all the development in the Volt's electric system and battery where the japanese government paid for the development of the prius and insight. How do you expect GM to compete with that as far as pricing goes...
Okay, I'm not the expert here, but I think the car companies should be taking a serious look at the R/C industry for ideas. They have had regenerative braking technology for years and years (decades?). The high-frequency drive speed controllers are extremely efficient. They've been on the cutting edge of electric motor and battery technology since the switch from Ni-Cads. Lithium poymer and lithium ion batteries have become the standard in the industry for electric cars, planes, and helicopters, and high efficiency brushless motor systems are putting out equal, if not more, power than their gas predecessors. I know there is more to it than building a full scale R/C power system, but it seems like a lot of the R&D has already been done; it just needs to be taylored to a full sized vehicle.

[scuzz]

I honestly don't believe that the real issue here is the quality of their products but rather the product of their mismanagement of both the UAW and the multiple same lines of business and branding.

Here's an example with GM, but Ford/Lincoln/Mercury and Chrysler/Dodge/Plymoth/Jeep are just as guilty.

Buick was competing with Cadiallac who was competing with Oldsmobile who was competing with Pontiac. No real branding...I mean what does "Pontiac" even mean to you now?

Back in the 50's and 60's there were clear distinctions and branding between the monikers for GM, now it's just a different lable on the same jar of peanut butter on the same shelf.

Sure the Big 3 made mistakes in the past, and still make them now but if you look at what they have done in the past 5-8 years it's light years ahead of where they were.

I own one domestic and one import. My Suburban has over 100,000 miles on it and has been a great vehicle. When I need to go across country with my wife, three kids, two dogs and all our stuff, there is no other vehicle that can come even close to the cargo/towing capacity and reliability.

My other vehicle is my Toyota Tacoma - it's nice but WAY underpowered. It also has 100,000+ miles on it also.

On both vehicles EVERYTHING works.

If these vehicles were made 20 years ago, my impression of the Suburban would be WAY different and my Tacoma would prolly be about the same.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by ben300
and you better watch out...i might understand more than you think....not everone is a dumb kid on this forum

Take a back seat newb .... if you'd have been around here longer , you'd have known that Tommy was working on the Volt during his years of University.

IMO , the Volt is going to be junk. Why buy a Volt when you can buy a Prius and have better quality, better resale value and get 60+ MPG . You want to know what the big complaints are gunna be about electric cars? People complaining that their electricity bills are through the roof from plugging in their cars.

"if everyone plugged in an electric car there would not be enough electricity in the world" 40 miles is garbage. hmm how is it me by myself can convert a car to a fully electric car that will go 125 miles on a charge but Chevy can only do 40? BTW the kits are online to convert your own vehicles its not as hard as you might think just some fabbing for battery reinforcement. Chevy Volt I would love to meet the engineers on that one and inform them on their stupidity, seriously when you can build your own electric vehicle that far exceeds something made in production you know the production car is crap. Oh check out the Tesla and there is another guy that started his own electric car company in California too both far exceeding the Chevy POS

[matt14c]

As far as the "Domestic" quality there is no such thing really anymore! I work in a Chrysler facility and can tell you first hand that about 60-70% of all parts come from damn Mexico!!!! 100% of all the electrical does for just about all the big three. My dad works in the Mustang and Mazda 6 plant and he would tell you the same thing. Its too bad that American muscle of all things is prolly 2/3 Mexican. Pretty much my whole family has either retired or is going to retire from GM or Ford so if I were to buy foreign my grandparents would roll over and there graves and haunt me and my dad would disown me. My brothers g/f has a kia and she is not allowed to park it on his property. No joke and he has like a 150-175 foot driveway. But again the parts and the quality is all an issue of cutting costs becuase they have to pay cletus the janitor $35/hr.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by Quad18star
You want to know what the big complaints are gunna be about electric cars? People complaining that their electricity bills are through the roof from plugging in their cars.

QFT

Then the price of electricity is going to go up because of cap-and-trade which amounts to raised taxes for everyone.

Which is worse? Coal power plants or gasoline powered cars?

Sorry for getting off topic, but I think that electric cars are not the means to the end of our issues.

[Caseys 300ex]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
As a Honda Associate working at the east liberty auto plant in the engineering department I can see why GM is bankrupt. I wish I could say some things on here and stuff but I just can't...


Another thing that HONDA can do that GM and the rest cant is retool our entire plant for a new model without stopping the other ones. For example my plant can run a CRV, Element, and a new model thats coming out. For this new model we haven't shut the line down one minute, GM can't do that. They shut down for months. Also their plants can build usually only one model where we can build 3 models on the line at any time and switch over instantly with zero loss. You maybe standing there and an element will come then a CRV then a civic what ever...


and btw the volt is junk. Trust me I worked on a part of it for my senior design project. Its going to cost 40,000$ and will not get the 40 miles they say on battery only. Your stupid for buying that when you can buy a Honda Insight for 19,000$ and get 65mpg! you can buy a ton of gas for the 21,000$ you save!

Off topic but you live like 20 minutes from me! haha

Dae woo < Kia < Hyndai < Honda/Toyota/Nissan lol I'm just happy to see the Japenese super cars and sports cars returning. The NSX will finally be in Honda's lineup again hello AWD 500HP hyped up to be a GTR killer. Sad to see the S2000 go though. The GTR is getting a fair share of mods now check out the Hennesey GTR600 its rediculous and just bolt ons. Toyota has plans for a return of the Supra. GTR35 7:27 time at Nurburgring. New SpecV with only 5 more HP and 100lbs lighter did 7:25 and change putting it at the 6th fastest production car just milliseconds from 5th which is the Enzo. ACR Viper sits at #2 which is bad ***. I honsetly have no idea why I just wrote that.

goodbye ben lol

[ben300]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
goodbye ben lol

ahah...ya your right...little uncalled for...so i deleted it..

ive been up since yesterday...

Originally posted by ben300
ahah...ya your right...little uncalled for...so i deleted it..

ive been up since yesterday...

get some sleep man

[ben300]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
get some sleep man

plannin on it...soon as i get done with deadliest warrior...love that show

[Kickstarts-suck]

Ill stick with my Fords. I have 2 F150s, Brother has 1 F150 and dad has an 07 F150. All have had no problems.

We have always had great luck with Ford..

My mom has a 05 Toyota Avalon and I wont bring that up...

[fasterblaster09]

Originally posted by csr250r
My 5.0 mustang has 275,000 miles on original motor, and I beat hondas all day. Too bad you had a lemon i guess. :ermm:

pick 6 random 5.0's, and see if they all pass the 350,000 mark (mind you 4 or 5 of these honda have been beat on their whole lives and not maintained properly). but yea I had a lemon.

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Take a back seat newb .... if you'd have been around here longer , you'd have known that Tommy was working on the Volt during his years of University.

IMO , the Volt is going to be junk. Why buy a Volt when you can buy a Prius and have better quality, better resale value and get 60+ MPG . You want to know what the big complaints are gunna be about electric cars? People complaining that their electricity bills are through the roof from plugging in their cars.


Thanks ;)

And Btw the reason that some other companies are not going with these "all electric" cars is because the price cap on electricity is going to be off this year. They can now charge us what ever they please for electricity. Some expect 200% increases in the prices so its cheaper to go with gas.

I was in the same boat shopping for a car 2 weeks ago. I could buy a honda civic or insight. The civic was 6,000$ less then the insight and only gets 15 mpg less. I can buy alot of gas with that 6,000$.

What your going to see is hydrogen cars. Go look at the honda FCX clarity. You can drink the water from the exhaust;) The reason you don't see them right now is because the only place that has a hydrogen station is California and Penn State.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
The fact is that GM is in deep **** with this thing and they can't get it on the market for a decent cost.

That sucks because I would actually like to see GM do well with this car. (regardless of what I think about electric cars, cap and trade and all that.)

[F-16Guy]

I can't believe that, with the energy density of lithium-polymer batteries and the new electric motor technologies, GM can't get an electric car to go more than 40 miles per charge. I know there is concern about the fire potential with Li-Po batteries, but has there been any useage of lithium-manganese? When I look at the advancements of electric vehicles in the R/C industry (don't laugh, it's cutting edge), I just can't understand why the auto industry can't apply some of those innovations to full size cars.

[ProspectorJim]

The future isn't in electric cars that you have to plug in to charge up, its in hydrogen fuel cell powered cars.

[F-16Guy]

Yeah, as soon as they can figure out a way to charge people $2.50 a gallon for water. :scary:

[RideRed84]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
Your ignorance just shows that you don't know how to read between the lines. Did you ever hear of confidential infromation, I can't post the CADD files and reports with the type of materials used and all of that stuff.

But once again if you and ben would listen to people, you would be able to read between the lines. You want to know how I know the batter won't last... Fine I'll tell you... The reason I know is because #1 I toured the entire GM design center and saw a volt months ago along with the camaro and a few other cars. #2 is the reason for my project which was for the "2011 opel zafira" mini van to everyone else was really not. The reason for it is to eliminate weight is structural members of the frame because the volt is just to heavy. They are trying to cut every lbs of weight that they can from the thing because the battery can't last. My design took a simple piece of the car and no its not a bumper support and made it go from 7.5lbs to 1.3lbs. You can take it for what you want but your punk asses that come on here and call people out is just pathedic because you never know who knows. The fact is that GM is in deep **** with this thing and they can't get it on the market for a decent cost.

I went through an engineering prgram that worked closely with CAT and Mitsubishi and can produce CAD files like yours all day long. You don't work for GM and don't know half of what's going on with the volt. 40 miles is the range of the battery with a plug in charge, after that a small gas engine charges the battery much like the prius. Where is everyone getting 40 mpg, it will do much better than that. The cost is higher in the beginning but much less down the road due to the LiPo battery that doesn't need replacement. You worked on one design element of the car, hardly makes you an expert on the Volt. Thanks for sharing.

[mudrunner35]

Originally posted by RideRed84
I went through an engineering prgram that worked closely with CAT and Mitsubishi and can produce CAD files like yours all day long. You don't work for GM and don't know half of what's going on with the volt. 40 miles is the range of the battery with a plug in charge, after that a small gas engine charges the battery much like the prius. Where is everyone getting 40 mpg, it will do much better than that. The cost is higher in the beginning but much less down the road due to the LiPo battery that doesn't need replacement. You worked on one design element of the car, hardly makes you an expert on the Volt. Thanks for sharing.

bravo. do you like looking like an idiot? go flash your "do it at home in 1 month" engineering degree somewhere else. obviously you have NO idea what you're talking about, so there's a guy who has been deeply involved in the development of a car and you're calling BS? so i suppose you're an expert? ENLIGHTEN us on your vast knowledge of something your simple mind cannot understand.


i'm waiting.... please.. hurry. i NEED your information so i can sleep at night! wait.. you're a complete moron i forgot :)

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by RideRed84
I went through an engineering prgram that worked closely with CAT and Mitsubishi and can produce CAD files like yours all day long. You don't work for GM and don't know half of what's going on with the volt. 40 miles is the range of the battery with a plug in charge, after that a small gas engine charges the battery much like the prius. Where is everyone getting 40 mpg, it will do much better than that. The cost is higher in the beginning but much less down the road due to the LiPo battery that doesn't need replacement. You worked on one design element of the car, hardly makes you an expert on the Volt. Thanks for sharing.

A 6 year old can do a CAD drawing. It takes nothing special to do that:p . I did that drawing in about 6 minutes in solid works.

Yeah it does run like a prius or an insight or the rest but thats still not the point. The point is that you can buy the prius or the insight for half the price. I never claimed to be an "expert" on the volt. What I said is the information that I know that is alot more then most people. If you think I'm telling you everything I know your crazy. And your right I don't work for GM right now and what I worked on was one simple aspect but that one aspect had to have a background to it and thats something I do know. So if your so smart about these batteries I'll give you one simple question and we'll see if you can answer it smartass...

Where is the battery location and what is the size roughly of it. Since you seem to know so much lets hear it????????? I know the answer btw;)

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
....I'll give you one simple question and we'll see if you can answer it smartass...

Where is the battery location and what is the size roughly of it. Since you seem to know so much lets hear it????????? I know the answer btw;)

In or on the car and bigger than a bread box. Are you guys done? :muscle:

[ThePhantomRider]

From The Desk of TPR:

By the power of TPR you are hereby banned from posting in these forums effective immediately and until further notice.

TPR

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
From The Desk of TPR:

By the power of TPR you are hereby banned from posting in these forums effective immediately and until further notice.

TPR
Great. Now what am I gonna do all day? :confused:

[hondariderdylan]

controversy over the Volt much?:rolleyes:

[Rastus]

Hmmm, I guess someone will have to figure out how to get more energy from a hydrogen fuel cell system than what is put into it. Maybe after they figure that out they can get to work on the perpetual motion machine. ;)