250r or 450r?

[johndeere1]

Hey guys. I am looking to buy yet another quad and i am not sure if i should get a 250r or 450r set up for mx? 2 stroke vs. 4. I am racing (not alot tho) , riding around at my buddy's grandpa's for fun, and do the occasional trail ride at local state parks. Whats you guys' opinion? i NEED HELP!!! Thanks, cody

[coryatver]

If you are actually going to race it and ride it I wouldn't get a 250r. 450r parts are available, and even the newest 250r is 10 years old now and completely wore out more than likely. If you are getting it to take out once in a while and like 250r's then I would get a 250r becuase they are pretty sweet but I wouldn't get one for your main quad

[97blaster200]

Originally posted by coryatver
and even the newest 250r is 10 years old now and completely wore out more than likely

since when did they make a 250r in 1999???

[jcs003]

250r. cheaper to maintain, cheaper to build for more power and more fun to ride. and i almost forgot: that sweet two stroke sound.

[PhilMoore]

Originally posted by johndeere1
Hey guys. I am looking to buy yet another quad and i am not sure if i should get a 250r or 450r set up for mx? 2 stroke vs. 4. I am racing (not alot tho) , riding around at my buddy's grandpa's for fun, and do the occasional trail ride at local state parks. Whats you guys' opinion? i NEED HELP!!! Thanks, cody

The last good 250R was made in 1989.

A box stock 450R(of any brand) is more than adequate for the activity you describe.

250R is for old guys (like me) who like to "remember the good old days".

If you really want a 250R, get one and learn for yourself why the new equipment is better.

[cdrookie]

i've had/rode the "new equipment" and will stick with my 250r.

asking a question like this on a forum is useless anyways. it's all about personal preference. buying something based on the latest trends or because of peer pressure is stupid. ride them and pick whichever YOU like better, it'll be YOUR money paying for it.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by cdrookie
i've had/rode the "new equipment" and will stick with my 250r.

asking a question like this on a forum is useless anyways. it's all about personal preference. buying something based on the latest trends or because of peer pressure is stupid. ride them and pick whichever YOU like better, it'll be YOUR money paying for it.

you are absolutly correct. when the raptor came out everyone said it was the best machine ever, until they had problems of many sorts. the 450 is also prone to numerous problems. the 250r is proven to be reliable and has potent output with tons more potential.

as for parts. you can still find them anywhere. and if cost is a problem. see the cross compatability chart.

[coryatver]

Originally posted by 97blaster200
since when did they make a 250r in 1999???

oops I guess I should have said they are at least 20 years old:eek2:

I love the 250r also and I understand the diehard 250r guys but just because you like them doesn't mean you should be telling some new guy to buy one that knows nothing about them and start on the 250r bandwagon 20 years late.

You can get any 450r part stock and the aftermarket is limitless and you can ask anyone for setup help out there at the races or trails. The 250r some stock parts are discontinued and the aftermarket is getting smaller and smaller every day and people still running them that you could ask for help is getting fewer and fewer.

If you still want a 250r after knowing this than go for it becuase it is a sweet quad. I would love to have one. But I know I wouldn't be able to race it or ride it every weekend like I can my 450r. Some of you guys can probley do it with your 250r but I am just saying it would be much easier with brand new or couple year old quad

[Mean250r]

heres my oppinion.

I had a 89 250r that was fully built, i mean everything. The bike was sick and everytime i brought it to the track people would turn heads aha. I was a Much faster rider on it. I felt more comfotbale on it, Now a days you can pick up a fully built 250r for less then a stock 450! I mean i think that makes the decision obvious right there.

But anyway, i sold the 250r to build a YFZ450. I built the YFZ with the best parts (hiper,PEP,Walsh), honestly, i liked the 250r much better, i never had a problem with the 250r, i had problems with the YFZ left and right!

Thats my look on it, as of right now im completly out of the sport being i sold everything etc. Im lookin to pick up another bike soon, and you better believe its going to be a 250r.

And the whole racing thing, unless you plan on racing Production nationals or sumthin like that, the 250r's are still super competitive!

[Mxjunkie]

I'm forever a 250r rider personally! A very good bang for the buck quad no doubt.. There is endless way's to build it and the 2 stroke motor responds well to modifcations. Plus hey if you can't find a part just build a part for it.. They are SO simple that almost anyone could tear it down and rebuild it if need be..

OH and a top end job on a 250r is cheap if all hell breaks loose, that 450 top end thats one big bill lol.. I still say the old 350x motors were the best, easy to work on and the damn things wouldn't blow up if you were tryin. :p


Nothing beat's the 2 stroke thrill though the 4 stroke low end is a hell of a nice thing to have... 250rs handle awesome and the power is fun, you'd almost HAVE to be a 2 stroke rider at heart to own one but most can agree even a thumper guy enjoys to ride one atleast once.

As for trail riding, I blast trails on mine any chance I get!

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/68/l_b1737061f6b7434cb144a8ed841358d0.jpg

[RATPACK Z400]

Its like ford and chevy guys they cant get it though there head that something is better. the 250r was great! but does,t stand a chance again,st the new 450s new tech win,s hands down ,better suspentions,motors,more torque etc,etc, those quads had there days the Z came along and showed them what a 4-stroke on a Mx track can do the rest is history let it be.Dude get yourself a 450 and Race you butt off !What class do they have for the 250 anyway?

[coryatver]

Yeah it would be like ford vs chevy if Chevy stopped making trucks 20 years ago and you guys are telling him go buy a 20 year old chevy truck instead of new 09 ford lol

[RATPACK Z400]

Yeap! thats it. its hard for someone so dead set on what they believe ,they could ride the badest 450 that would kill any 250r any all catagories and they would still say the 250r is better . its what they been riding for so long and cant change and theres nothing wrong with it ,but dont sit and say your 20yr quad is better than are 20yr new quad cause thats a joke.

[buck440]

Originally posted by coryatver
Yeah it would be like ford vs chevy if Chevy stopped making trucks 20 years ago and you guys are telling him go buy a 20 year old chevy truck instead of new 09 ford lol the older chevy-250R would be the best to have unlike the new ford-450R due to it's much simpler and has been around for a long time and still is around unlike the ford-450R with all it's precision high maintenance parts and crap valves and what not...K.I.S.S plus alot of 400ex parts fit the 250R anyway not like it's hard to finde a 250R part anyway cause you can almost if not completely build a 250R with just aftermarket parts, you know you wanna:D but if your gunna keep it pretty stock then get a 450 cause a stock 250R is *******ugly:chinese:

[Mean250r]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Its like ford and chevy guys they cant get it though there head that something is better. the 250r was great! but does,t stand a chance again,st the new 450s new tech win,s hands down ,better suspentions,motors,more torque etc,etc, those quads had there days the Z came along and showed them what a 4-stroke on a Mx track can do the rest is history let it be.Dude get yourself a 450 and Race you butt off !What class do they have for the 250 anyway?

The new 4 strokes handle as good as the 250r?

This is news to me :eek2:

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Yeap! thats it. its hard for someone so dead set on what they believe ,they could ride the badest 450 that would kill any 250r any all catagories and they would still say the 250r is better . its what they been riding for so long and cant change and theres nothing wrong with it ,but dont sit and say your 20yr quad is better than are 20yr new quad cause thats a joke.

The fail is strong in this one.

[SRH]

unless your in love with 250rs get something newer, metal fatigue...will play havoc, even a good aftermarket built one will suffer from it at some point...and aftermarket stuff is a pita to maintain and get replace parts for...., plan on taking the motor down to the tranny and doing it from there up unless you want headaches... even from 99-03 when 250rs were still dominant i chose to race a 400ex , much less headaches, my buddies with 250rs constantly were having issues....i guess if you got a fat wallet to build one, or can find a nice build and freshen it up and thats your thing go for it

id hands down buy a newer 450, pick up a used stock yfz for 2500-3000 and run it 2 seasons and move onto a new ride and your wallet will love u, it will do everything the R will cheaper and better

ive learned to pay no mind to anyone that says those things constantly break about anything but a polaris...what breaks quads are people who think they know how to fix them and shouldnt be holding a wrench, the other thing is people who do not maintain them

[SRH]

i forgot to add...the newer 450s are ridden with a different style than the old 250r, thats why alot of guys insist the 250r handles better....there use to that handling, youll notice riders are much more over the front of the quad than in the 90s too....its an adjustment that is hard for alot of guys after 20 years of riding the old 250r

if i had to make a comparison in the handling 250r is like a cadillac and new 450s are like bmw's:p

[jcs003]

Originally posted by SRH
i forgot to add...the newer 450s are ridden with a different style than the old 250r, thats why alot of guys insist the 250r handles better....there use to that handling, youll notice riders are much more over the front of the quad than in the 90s too....its an adjustment that is hard for alot of guys after 20 years of riding the old 250r

if i had to make a comparison in the handling 250r is like a cadillac and new 450s are like bmw's:p

BMW uses cadillac technology in some applications if your not aware of this. i.e. transmission and a couple of other things. also, the 2009 CTS_V is an M5 eater...

i didn't own a 250r until i owned a warrior, banshee and 400ex. i believe the 400 handles the best but when you add the power output and delivery of the 250 it works better.

i have ridden 450s and the frame geometry is closer to the 250, then the 400, but with the 4-stroke engine in it it loses its unique feel.

in conclusion the 250 is still the best bang for your buck.

[Mxjunkie]

Originally posted by SRH
i forgot to add...the newer 450s are ridden with a different style than the old 250r, thats why alot of guys insist the 250r handles better....there use to that handling, youll notice riders are much more over the front of the quad than in the 90s too....its an adjustment that is hard for alot of guys after 20 years of riding the old 250r

if i had to make a comparison in the handling 250r is like a cadillac and new 450s are like bmw's:p


That's where your suppose to be! Leaning over the front WFO just point the front end and the back will follow lol. :devil:


Originally posted by SRH
what breaks quads are people who think they know how to fix them and shouldnt be holding a wrench, the other thing is people who do not maintain them


Amen to that!! :macho

[deathman53]

I've ridden 450's, didn't like them. My friends yfz, way too twitchy. Another has a trx450r, he put alot of time and money into it, I actually like it, its very far from stock. Another has a 07 trx450er, I hate it. I've ridden some 05's and found the suspension is too stiff. I have a trx250r(not very stock) and trx250r/crf450r motor. I can agree with the 450 motor being better in tight tracks, but even that doesn't feel as agile and flickable as the 250r. I'll keep my 250r's, maybe get hybrid frames to put 4 stroke motors in. My friends friend rode my hybrid, he has a polaris preditor, he loved it, it was way better than his in almost every aspect.

[johndeere1]

thanks for your time and opinions guys. its still a HARD decision:macho

When it came time for me to buy a quad I was pretty dead set on a 250r. Then I decided I didnt want to deal with a 2 stroke and having to mix and what not, just not for me. Then I said alright i'll get a 450r. Eh wasnt what I was looking for, fast and all but it just didnt feel the same as the 400ex which is what i'm still rocking. The only place I have trouble keeping up is in a drag race.

[400exrider69]

if were talking best bang for your buck i would go with a good 400ex any day of the week
440 kit
pipe
remove air box likd
nerfs and a good set of tires
you can find a good stock 400ex for $1200
i have looked at the honda 450 and they seem like they went wrong somewhere on them but i really liked all the 400ex's i've had
i wouldn't mess with a 250r they so old by todays standards mixing gas is the easy part
if you think about it a 450 would be at the oldest 5 years old a 400ex would be about 10
and a 250r would be 23 years old think of what 23 years of wear and tear would do to something even if it was in good care
i've not ever saw many 250r's that were (never raced)
imo unless your wanting to race i would get an 05 or 06 450r or a good 400ex that you could have for half the price of even a stock 450 and the 400 could be modded out

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by 310Rduner
The fail is strong in this one.


LMAO...yea i really think this guy posts just to rack up post count. or either he likes reading what he types. bc most of the time what ive read hes posted is complete junk


Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
those quads had there days the Z came along and showed them what a 4-stroke on a Mx track can do the rest is history let it be.

LMAO what a joke to say the z400 paved the way for the 4strokes is so insanely stupid

[TCracin440ex]

the first z400 came out in late 02, early 03...well i hate to tell ya ratpack but there was a ALOT of racers putting 4 stroke motors in quad frames long before the z400 was even a dream

they were using yzf 426 and boring them to a 440 and stuffing them in a 400ex frame or a 250r frame. and would use crf 450 and destroke them to a 440 and do the same thing.

would you like to know why they would destroke them because the limit on the CC of the class was 440 back then. now the 450 machines have came out they increased the CC from 440 to 450

ive owned a trx 450r and i loved it wish i never would have sold it and ive owned a 400ex. now i want a 250r to ride being as ive never had one and i would like to own one and see what the 2 stroke is all about. id like to have one as a spare and have another quad to beat on as my main ride

[jcs003]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Its like ford and chevy guys they cant get it though there head that something is better. the 250r was great! but does,t stand a chance again,st the new 450s new tech win,s hands down ,better suspentions,motors,more torque etc,etc, those quads had there days the Z came along and showed them what a 4-stroke on a Mx track can do the rest is history let it be.Dude get yourself a 450 and Race you butt off !What class do they have for the 250 anyway?

in 2002 when the "Z came along" the 250r won every ATV race in the country. all the Z did was make a liquid cooled trail quad rhat still gets whopped by 250r and 400ex in all quad racing arenas...

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
LMAO what a joke to say the z400 paved the way for the 4strokes is so insanely stupid

When it came to production 4strokes it definitely paved the way. Remember the Pro Production class during the last year of the "original" pro class?

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by jcs003
in 2002 when the "Z came along" the 250r won every ATV race in the country. all the Z did was make a liquid cooled trail quad rhat still gets whopped by 250r and 400ex in all quad racing arenas...

MAYBE by a 250r but to say a 400ex? Really? Did you pay attention to what almost everybody in the school boy class is winning on?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by madskrillz2
MAYBE by a 250r but to say a 400ex? Really? Did you pay attention to what almost everybody in the school boy class is winning on?

reread it. that was two statements. the Z came out and was still getting beat by two different quads that are "olde technology".

if something is the best for so long, it becomes a burden to those who oppose it. mopar had a similiar issue...

[SRH]

stop bickering, any A , pro am, or pro would smoke most guys who post on here with a blaster....results have nothing to do with the quad.....dnf's do

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by coryatver
Yeah it would be like ford vs chevy if Chevy stopped making trucks 20 years ago and you guys are telling him go buy a 20 year old chevy truck instead of new 09 ford lol


the difference wit that is that its much easier to make an old 250R brand new than it would be to try and restore a car. im sorry, but that is not a good analogy what so ever

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by jcs003
reread it. that was two statements. the Z came out and was still getting beat by two different quads that are "olde technology".

if something is the best for so long, it becomes a burden to those who oppose it. mopar had a similiar issue...

Reread what? I realize that's two statements because I meant for it to be. The 250r is possibly better in most aspects but a 400ex isn't. Ok, I'll take it back further. What was EVERYBODY on in the Pro Production class when the Z came out?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by madskrillz2
Reread what? I realize that's two statements because I meant for it to be. The 250r is possibly better in most aspects but a 400ex isn't. Ok, I'll take it back further. What was EVERYBODY on in the Pro Production class when the Z came out?

nevermind, alot can be lost in translation when the points being conveyed are summerized. it is true alot of people got on the Z and raptor but returned to the hondas. i.e. chad duvall, barry hawk etc. sponsors have power.

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by jcs003
nevermind, alot can be lost in translation when the points being conveyed are summerized. it is true alot of people got on the Z and raptor but returned to the hondas. i.e. ghad duvall, barry hawk etc. sponsors have power.

Ghad Duvall? Don't think I remember him. :D

[jcs003]

Originally posted by madskrillz2
Ghad Duvall? Don't think I remember him. :D

i don't know him either. do you know chad duvall?

[madskrillz2]

Originally posted by jcs003
i don't know him either. do you know chad duvall?

Yeah

[RATPACK Z400]

Nacs racinging was the first I heard of putting first 4-stroke in lonestar frame and going agains,t high performance 250rs and winning and i was impressed with the Zmotor and went and bought one of the first in may of 2002 and still ride it. then other guys started putting 426 yami motors in frames and boring to 440 cause that was cc specs at time , in 99 doug Gust won first MX Championship on 4-stroke with e-start with Nacs rest history how can anybody say the Z400 wasn,t the first to beat the 250r on the MX track and pave the way for 4-stroke ,that the truth!just because honda put out the 400ex doest mean it paved the way in MX.they just made a great trail quad ,suzuki kick started MX! like they did before with the first quadracer 250r the honda 250r was coped after.

[TCracin440ex]

the thing to remember with the 250r is it was the ultimate race machine that the aftermarket built. the stock square tube frames were heavy and prone to failure. the motors didnt have as much hp as everybody thinks they would. the only thing stock on alot of these 250rs that were built was the side cases the rest was all aftermarket. stock for stock a 450r vs a 250r the 450r has it hands down. but the aftermarket has so much stuff out there for the 250r its insane the amount of stuff you can do to them to make them faster. they are simple to work on. no valves, cam etc. with the right maintence the 250r will last for a while. but i think the 4 strokes are here to stay. i honestly would love to have a 250r.

[jcs003]

to put this in perspective. honda, suzuki and kawasaki all had their 2-stroke machines, why did the 250r stand the test of time...

the aftermarket for the quadracer and tecate-4 is little to none compared to the 250r. this being said, is proof that the cream always rises to the top. 4-strokes will stay, but 2-strokes are making a rebound. the new technology in two-strokes will eventually surface in the ATV industry, mark my word.

[coryatver]

Originally posted by jcs003
the new technology in two-strokes will eventually surface in the ATV industry, mark my word.

i think if any brand it will be can am. In there snowmobiles they have some amazing 2 stroke technology. They are even cleaner than the 4-strokes

[TheIceMan]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Nacs racinging was the first I heard of putting first 4-stroke in lonestar frame and going agains,t high performance 250rs and winning and i was impressed with the Zmotor and went and bought one of the first in may of 2002 and still ride it. then other guys started putting 426 yami motors in frames and boring to 440 cause that was cc specs at time , in 99 doug Gust won first MX Championship on 4-stroke with e-start with Nacs rest history how can anybody say the Z400 wasn,t the first to beat the 250r on the MX track and pave the way for 4-stroke ,that the truth!just because honda put out the 400ex doest mean it paved the way in MX.they just made a great trail quad ,suzuki kick started MX! like they did before with the first quadracer 250r the honda 250r was coped after.

Actually, I think Laegers did one first for Ellis,with a YZ engine.Dougs was a DZ 400 bike motor (2001 i think) with a Walsh chassis.In 99 Gust won the pro title on a Nacs 250R.

As for which is better? well,that's a never ending question.I like both machines.As for asking what one to buy? get them both,problem solved.

[RATPACK Z400]

Nacs was first 4-stroke in 99 for sure won 99 with Doug Gust dr400 motor/lonestar and he won on 250r in 87",89 why would he race dr400 motor cause it was that good. 2-strokes coming back cant see that happening cause of rule on emissions. The GNNC 250r ruled for years Now 4-strokes rule ! wet conditions the 4-stroke is a better quad to have better torque better hook up ,MX/desert as well ! All the other lasted too suzuki,kawi,yami, its was the honda was raced the most and prefered! MX honda ,sanddragging yami=Banshee,suzuki=quadzilla

[snacob14]

don't forget that four strokes rule big named races because of the factory support they are getting or hoping to get. Not any factory two strokes out there.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Nacs was first 4-stroke in 99 for sure won 99 with Doug Gust dr400 motor/lonestar and he won on 250r in 87",89 why would he race dr400 motor cause it was that good. 2-strokes coming back cant see that happening cause of rule on emissions. The GNNC 250r ruled for years Now 4-strokes rule ! wet conditions the 4-stroke is a better quad to have better torque better hook up ,MX/desert as well ! All the other lasted too suzuki,kawi,yami, its was the honda was raced the most and prefered! MX honda ,sanddragging yami=Banshee,suzuki=quadzilla

the new two strokes are cleaner than the 4-strokes.

the 250r is highly competetive in drags vs. lt500 and banshee. and like i said in another post: in 2002 the 250r won every national ATV race...

[dehner47]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Nacs was first 4-stroke in 99 for sure won 99 with Doug Gust dr400 motor/lonestar and he won on 250r in 87",89 why would he race dr400 motor cause it was that good. 2-strokes coming back cant see that happening cause of rule on emissions. The GNNC 250r ruled for years Now 4-strokes rule ! wet conditions the 4-stroke is a better quad to have better torque better hook up ,MX/desert as well ! All the other lasted too suzuki,kawi,yami, its was the honda was raced the most and prefered! MX honda ,sanddragging yami=Banshee,suzuki=quadzilla

he did not win the 99 champoiship on a dr400. he won it on a lonestar framed 250r in 99. its wasn't until 03 or 04 that he won the champoiship with his nacs backed z400. so for a z400 guy, you should get facts straight before you try and fight your point.

corey ellis was the 1st one to have a full 4stroke atv on the national level. he was working for mark laeger at the time(think 00 or 01) he was backed by a yamaha shop in cali and they set him up with a yz400f motor to put in a laeger narrow nosed 250r geometry pro trax frame. and he raced it in the pro-am class. i remeber this damn well cause my father was close with mr. ellis and me and cory would bs all the time about his new "toy" the 1st time he had it out they still actually had the dirtbike roller sitting in his trailer. and for the record, dave diver had his lost creek cycle yz400f laeger chassis before doug ever had z400. if you wanted to get technical.

[Mxjunkie]

Before all that happened with the Yamaha and suzuki motors the real first " racing " 4 stroke motor was the good ol 350x! There was quite a few pro's that had these things back in the day.. technically gust wasn't the " first " 4 stroke guy. :devil:

I remember people using the 250x motors too! :p

[Mxjunkie]

Originally posted by dehner47
he did not win the 99 champoiship on a dr400. he won it on a lonestar framed 250r in 99. its wasn't until 03 or 04 that he won the champoiship with his nacs backed z400. so for a z400 guy, you should get facts straight before you try and fight your point.

corey ellis was the 1st one to have a full 4stroke atv on the national level. he was working for mark laeger at the time(think 00 or 01) he was backed by a yamaha shop in cali and they set him up with a yz400f motor to put in a laeger narrow nosed 250r geometry pro trax frame. and he raced it in the pro-am class. i remeber this damn well cause my father was close with mr. ellis and me and cory would bs all the time about his new "toy" the 1st time he had it out they still actually had the dirtbike roller sitting in his trailer. and for the record, dave diver had his lost creek cycle yz400f laeger chassis before doug ever had z400. if you wanted to get technical.

True that, ellis's quad was bad! I wish there was a way to hunt down all the old shots of those quads.. the pro's use to have some sweet creations.

Kinda off topic but didn't 4 stroke tech build a liquid cooled 400ex back in the early 2000's? I remeber something along those lines being in a mag.

[dehner47]

Originally posted by Mxjunkie
Before all that happened with the Yamaha and suzuki motors the real first " racing " 4 stroke motor was the good ol 350x! There was quite a few pro's that had these things back in the day.. technically gust wasn't the " first " 4 stroke guy. :devil:

I remember people using the 250x motors too! :p

haha i actually had 2 of those. i ment to say in the pro class. not many, i dont think anyone race a 350rx in the pro class. but they were killer in the 4stroke class. wether it was a 350x or a 250x. they were ahead of there time :devil:

[deathman53]

tc built a 54? something 350x motor that stomped almost all 250r and dirtbike hybrids. It was in dirtwheels or atv action, also. I know a guy who had a 432 350x that would keep right up with them. I can agree 100% that before the 4 stroke revolution in 04/05, there was some different creations of almost every type of 250r or hybrid chassis. Its not like today, where everything looks the same. I almost had a chance to buy a laeger chassis 250r w/ 350x built motor ~3 years ago. I wish I did, narrow chassis, +4 pro-trak, cr500 link, it was beautiful, I wish I did.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by dehner47
he did not win the 99 champoiship on a dr400. he won it on a lonestar framed 250r in 99. its wasn't until 03 or 04 that he won the champoiship with his nacs backed z400. so for a z400 guy, you should get facts straight before you try and fight your point.

corey ellis was the 1st one to have a full 4stroke atv on the national level. he was working for mark laeger at the time(think 00 or 01) he was backed by a yamaha shop in cali and they set him up with a yz400f motor to put in a laeger narrow nosed 250r geometry pro trax frame. and he raced it in the pro-am class. i remeber this damn well cause my father was close with mr. ellis and me and cory would bs all the time about his new "toy" the 1st time he had it out they still actually had the dirtbike roller sitting in his trailer. and for the record, dave diver had his lost creek cycle yz400f laeger chassis before doug ever had z400. if you wanted to get technical.

ratpack u got owned
http://www.funny-games.biz/images/pictures/394-ownedkid.jpg

[RATPACK Z400]

TC tard look at (ask.com) look under first e-start/4-stroke to win GNC champoinship then you can can pull your head out! Doug Gust won GNC in 87,89 on 250r then in 99 on drz400/lonestar till 2002 then rode Z400 won 12 hr /GNC 2003 allmost won both championship that year won GNC again in 2004 and was second in 2005 agains,t new hondas then next year ltr450 came out and he got second place it first year. You have official been owned!

[TCracin440ex]

sorry bro you really got owned. nobody said anything bout doug gust. your the one that said he was the first to put a 4 stroke motor in a quad chassis. firstly, 2ndly it wasnt electric start u moron. the drz400 motor gust used was a kick start built motor built by TC. if i could find the pic of him racing on the quad i would post it up

http://tcracingengines.com/index.cfm?id=156424&fuseaction=browse&pageid=50

read that page and STFU!!! thank you....

[TheIceMan]

http://www.atvriders.com/interviews/doug-gust-2008-interview-suzuki-ltr450-atv.html

That pretty much sums up Diggers rides.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by TheIceMan
http://www.atvriders.com/interviews/doug-gust-2008-interview-suzuki-ltr450-atv.html (http://)

That pretty much sums up Diggers rides.


RATPACK= OWNED AGAIN

http://www.funny-games.biz/images/pictures/379-footbalowned.jpg

dude please im 22 years old and im tired of showing up a idiot 39 yr old brand loyal dumb ***!! please do us all a favor quit posting your brand loyal junk. because nobody cares. this reminds me of a thread not too long ago that you was posting in asking "will honda answer" where u was posting your brand loyal garbage about how suzuki is so much better then honda and blah blah blah. please take your spray painted quad which is uglier then home made soap and go on somewhere

this folks is all comming from somebody who rides a quad that looks like this

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3443820

thank you ratpack please STFU

[RATPACK Z400]

Dude Ive know that for years been riding before you were stain in your daddy underpants ,just put info on there so ALL of you could see the light .Im not going to back and forth with you all you wants a fight of who knows it all and you cant win with me !and never will cause I dont make ***** up to look good in front of others that really dont known ***** either just side with you cause you ride same brand.

[TCracin440ex]

:::::::EDIT::::::::

Keep it clean! :scary:

[RATPACK Z400]

Do you believe that a e-start/4-stroke won the GNC championship in 99? if you dont look it up before you call someone a moron! and if you believe what did he ride? and who was it?

[Johnny Minehan]

You can argue over this topic forever. IN MY OPINION, 250r, plain and simple. The 250r revolutionized the ATV world as we know it; in both racing and recreational riding aspects.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Do you believe that a e-start/4-stroke won the GNC championship in 99? if you dont look it up before you call someone a moron! and if you believe what did he ride? and who was it?


please copy and paste the link above and read for yourself.

[Mxjunkie]

Originally posted by dehner47
haha i actually had 2 of those. i ment to say in the pro class. not many, i dont think anyone race a 350rx in the pro class. but they were killer in the 4stroke class. wether it was a 350x or a 250x. they were ahead of there time :devil:

Hell yeah, I love riding ours, thing rips!

[RATPACK Z400]

It did till (99) when builder saw what a new breed of 4-strokes can do for the sport, the 4-stroke took over and got racing back to the glory days theres even more support now then back then.so Id say the 4-stroke kicked it in overdrive,And is still getting bigger as we speak ,but the 250s started it thats for sure ,and thank god they didn,t stop racing them!

[TCracin440ex]

"In 1999, Doug Gust won his 1st GNC Pro ATV Championship on a NAC's Racing Honda TRX 250R"

copied and pasted right from the link posted above.

[RATPACK Z400]

I read different you maybe right ! just looked again cant find any info on what quad he rode so it could be 250r but then it could be Z cant find article on Doug that explains quad he rode in 99 but still looking he won with e-start/4-stroke which year then?

[TCracin440ex]

it was 01

copied and pasted directly from tom carlson aka TCracing's website


In 2001 Doug Gust put
his Suzuki DRZ TC 440
in the winners circle as
the 1st 4-stroke to win a
GNC Pro-National MX.
A few races later Gust
put his Suzuki DRZ TC 440
back in the winners circle
again as the 1st 4-stroke
to win a
GNC Pro- National TT.

[TCracin440ex]

and upon further reasearch the dr-z400 was not released until 2000 so there for there was no way in 99 he could have had a dr-z400 motor in a quad frame.

[RATPACK Z400]

The thing is the motor was run I think in 99 then in 2000 then in 2001 they made it cause in may of 2002 i got mine suzuki looked and tested it for two years before making it.cant find any info on 99 GNC championship in archieves. not trying to be mean to you just i know what i read years ago have mag some where on it.

[RATPACK Z400]

Just looked at old mag its says he won in 2001 but thats not right he won only 99,2002 came in second in 2000,2001 dont add up!

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
The thing is the motor was run I think in 99 then in 2000 then in 2001 they made it cause in may of 2002 i got mine suzuki looked and tested it for two years before making it.cant find any info on 99 GNC championship in archieves. not trying to be mean to you just i know what i read years ago have mag some where on it.

you might not know what you read years ago. the motor was not run in 99 the drz400 was not released in 2000...the z400 was not released until mid 2002.

it says in black and white on 2 sites what happened.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Just looked at old mag its says he won in 2001 but thats not right he won only 99,2002 came in second in 2000,2001 dont add up!

the old mag says the exact same thing i coped and pasted. then it says in 01 (after the dr-z400) was released he won the championship on the dr-z400 hybrid.

[RATPACK Z400]

Yeah thats it ! i read it wrong my bad theres no need to fight over it its smashed now that was my next thing to look at if the bike was out. the weird thing is it says if you look up that in 99 that e-start /4-stroke won but it wasn,t till 2001 Unless i smoked too much as teen and lost my reading skills! Ha Ha.

[TCracin440ex]

and also he couldnt have raced the z400 till the 2003 season because simply in 02 the z400 was not a "production" bike.

2003 Race season debuts the new 450cc production class.
Digger Doug wins the championship title aboard
a new super fast YOSHIMURA powered 450cc
Digger kitted LTZ Suzuki 400.
Tuned by Tom Carlson TC Racing.
We are proud to announce the availibility of the exact engine kits
at TC Racing

^^copied again off the TCracing website

[RATPACK Z400]

Usually if a bike come out in 2000 everybodys got it in 99 but i cant find jack on 99 GNC but it dont matter point was 4-strokes took over back then and are going too for now on 250s were sweet and always be remembered and loved by many.

[250R-Dee]

Some of you guys need to step away from the keyboard and take a couple HUNDRED deep breaths.

Now remember this: YOUR OPINION is just that..... YOUR OPINION.

Yep, I'm a 2-smoke lover and it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of the people who dislike the 2-smokes either have never ridden one, didn't have the patience to tune it correctly or are too busy believing a bunch of misguided half-cocked rumors to deduct their own conclusion.

ratpack - I hate to single you out but do some research so you will not have to worry about passing false information. Japan and other places got the KICKSTART DRZ400 in the spring of '99 while the US did not get the same KICTSTART bike until the fall. The electric start DRZ400 wasn't released until '03. Doug Gust won in '99 with a 250R that had very little OEM parts on it and in '01 with a Walsh framed DRZ400 engine that was prepped to 440cc by TC. In '03 GNC changed the rules so motorcycle motors could no longer be transplanted into an ATV frame. In order to garner factory support in the pro classes and force the factories to build better frames/equipment the factories and race ruling bodies came came up with a Factory ONLY rule for models used in the pro class.

Those of you screaming "20 year old" bike are forgetting about the aftermarket parts that are available for the R and some of the "old" companies are starting to reproduce their R parts.

Here in Japan there is a 2 stroke Honda CRM250AR (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249920&highlight=CRM250AR) motor that burns cleaner than most 4 strokes. :eek2:

To the orginal poster - Find a 450R and 250R to ride and then make your own decision. Personally I'd take both but I will NEVER sell my 250R:chinese: