toyota 22re help ???

[tri5ron]

I have tried just about everything I can think of, and the truck still is under powered, and gets only 17mpg at best.

I have changed the o2 sensors, the catelattic, the TPS, check all vacuum lines, and have taken it to 2 different mechanics.
no body can seem to get it any better. it's got new plug wires, plugs, cap, etc. the injectors are clean, and fine, fuel pressure is good, new air filter, timing is fine.

The compression is a little low, but not much, and is within 5 lbs across all four cylinders.

It has recently developed a new symptom that has me thinking it may be a headgasket starting to go bad.
when it is first started (cold engine), it seems fine. but as it begins the warm up to operating temp, the rpm's begin to "surge" up and down, for about 3 or 4 minutes, then it settles into a acceptable idle speed.

as long as I continue to drive it, the "surge" does not come back.
but if I turn it off for more than 45 minutes to an hour, the process starts over again.
The engine has never been overheated.

I have checked the spark plugs, and they don't look too bad, no excessive fouling, basically a gold to light brown color, no oil burning.

The crankcase oil looks fine, (No chocolate milk), so IF the gasket IS leaking, I do not think it is getting coolant into the oil.

The exhaust pipe is not dripping water, and has no steam in it, BUT it DOES seem to be very "Humid".
Also, when the "surge" is happening, I have had the radiator cap removed to observe the flow of coolant, and it does seem to "Burp" a bit in the radiator. and there has been a minor loss of coolant from time to time.

I tried to do a little test, by hollowing a spark plug out, and welding a air hose fitting to the top. I got the cylinder to TDC, installed my "Test Plug", and hooked up my air hose at 120psi, to see if the radiator would "Burp" again, but it did not "Burp", and there was no appreciable loss of pressure in the cylinder. (so in other words, my little test did'nt tell me anything of value).

I feel that IF the head gasket IS leaking, then it is very slight, and only leaking from a water jacket port, to a cylinder.
(number 3 spark plug does look slightly worse than the others, but nothing too alarming).

I am considering trying one of the Block/headgasket sealers in the radiator ,to see if the humid exhaust disappears, and possibly even have the compression go up a little.
(again, the compression is a bit low, but not bad for 146,000 miles).

I don't normally approve of using any of the block Sealer type products, due to I really have never heard anyone say that they have used it and it works.
I also feel that if it can seal a leaking head gasket, then why wouldn't it clog up the radiator too?

I dont really want to pull the head and change out the head gasket right now, and was wondering what you guys think of the block sealers as a TEMPORARY fix?
Have you ever actually used the stuff ? and had positive results? or negative results?

I do realize that I will probably need to change the head gasket in the future, but right now, it's kind of hard to justify, with fairly good compression, and no coolant in the oil, and only minor loss of coolant.

thanks for any input or advise
btw- it's a 1989 22re engine in a regular toyota truck.

[rundrave]

just thought, as I used to own a 22re, I know they are known for the head gasket failure but if its a late enough model it may have already been replaced (recall i beleive)

one issue that I had that took forever for me to solve and about 3 different dealerships was that the timing was off.

the truck acted really weird but once i adjusted the timing it all went away

again just a guess thought I would throw it out there

[Lowcountrydave]

tri5ron,

The surging you are refurring to is caused by the idle being set to high. You will notice it only happens while the brake pedal is applied. When the brake pedal is applied the computer cuts the fuel to not waste fuel. Due to the idle not dropping back to 750/850 depending on manual or auto. Warm the engne to operating temp. Then pop the hood and on top of the Throttle body there is a screw, lower the idle down. Also helps if you have a tach in the truck. Test drive the truck again, this will cure the idle "hunting" Hopefully this wasn't to hard to understand. But I have owned my 91 toy 4x4 22RE reg cab for over 16 years, so I have learned alot about the little 4 bangers.

I would suggest getting a coolant pressure tester. Pressurize the coolant system to what the rad cap psi. Check for leaks, I once had a tiny hose that routed under the TB. Leaked just enough to lose coolant, but always dry up before I could find it while engine was hot.

The factory valve lash settings were I believe 8 intake and 12 exhaust. Some years were set to 7 instake and 11 exhaust. You can safely set them to 7/11. This setting will quiet the valve train, the ticking you will normally hear at 8/12. I have run my valves at the 7/11 for most of the 16 years now. You can also replace the factory therostat 190, with a 180. This actually fools the computer in to thinking the engine is not up to operating temp. so it adds extra fuel. You might use a little more fuel but it won't be noticeable. Also check the throttle cable, they stretch over time. You can adjust it up where the bracket holds the cable housing by the TB.

Regarding the timing. You have to jump the TE1, E1 terminals next to the fuse box under a diagnostic plug. It will drop the base time down to 5 degrees. You will hear the engine idle drop at this time when the connection is successful. Otherwise the timing is 12 degrees without the jumper being used.

I would not mess with any additive to "stop a leak" Find the leak and repair. If its a slight coolant loss just check it often.

22RE wasn't known for head gasket issues. The 3.0 v6 engines were the engines with this probem. There was a "campaign" for the 3.0 where the factory relpaced the HG's, also if the heads got to hot and cracked they were replaced for free.

Hope this helps.
Dave

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by Lowcountrydave
tri5ron,

The surging you are refurring to is caused by the idle being set to high. You will notice it only happens while the brake pedal is applied. When the brake pedal is applied the computer cuts the fuel to not waste fuel. Due to the idle not dropping back to 750/850 depending on manual or auto. Warm the engne to operating temp. Then pop the hood and on top of the Throttle body there is a screw, lower the idle down. Also helps if you have a tach in the truck. Test drive the truck again, this will cure the idle "hunting" Hopefully this wasn't to hard to understand. But I have owned my 91 toy 4x4 22RE reg cab for over 16 years, so I have learned alot about the little 4 bangers.

I would suggest getting a coolant pressure tester. Pressurize the coolant system to what the rad cap psi. Check for leaks, I once had a tiny hose that routed under the TB. Leaked just enough to lose coolant, but always dry up before I could find it while engine was hot.

The factory valve lash settings were I believe 8 intake and 12 exhaust. Some years were set to 7 instake and 11 exhaust. You can safely set them to 7/11. This setting will quiet the valve train, the ticking you will normally hear at 8/12. I have run my valves at the 7/11 for most of the 16 years now. You can also replace the factory therostat 190, with a 180. This actually fools the computer in to thinking the engine is not up to operating temp. so it adds extra fuel. You might use a little more fuel but it won't be noticeable. Also check the throttle cable, they stretch over time. You can adjust it up where the bracket holds the cable housing by the TB.

Regarding the timing. You have to jump the TE1, E1 terminals next to the fuse box under a diagnostic plug. It will drop the base time down to 5 degrees. You will hear the engine idle drop at this time when the connection is successful. Otherwise the timing is 12 degrees without the jumper being used.

I would not mess with any additive to "stop a leak" Find the leak and repair. If its a slight coolant loss just check it often.

22RE wasn't known for head gasket issues. The 3.0 v6 engines were the engines with this probem. There was a "campaign" for the 3.0 where the factory relpaced the HG's, also if the heads got to hot and cracked they were replaced for free.

Hope this helps.
Dave
Dave,
Thank you so much for the informative and detailed reply.
My truck is a late '89, (I say it that way, because some parts come up as for a 1990, example- the TPS), 2WD extended cab, 5 spd manual, PS, A/C, 22re.
You certainly do know something about these little engines, and you are correct about the idle hunting when the brake pedal is applied.
I will connect a tach, and reset the idle in the morning.
It has also done this "hunting" without the brake being applied. (i.e.- me standing outside of the truck, engine running, and coming up to operating temp).

I do have the factory manuals for both '89 and '90, and am a "Fair" DIY mechanic myself.
(but I will admit that I much prefer working on a good 'ol 350 small block or my '56 chevy 6 cyl, as opposed to this little computer'd , vacuum spaggettied, sensor excessive, 4 banger !) LOL!

I'm aware of setting the timing with the jumper on the TE1/E1 terminals, and I do have it set properly.
and as I first stated, I'm not too fond of any type of "magic juice" for leaks either. I just REALLY dont want to pull the head if I can avoid it. (I'm not completly convinced that the head gasket is bad).

I will try the pressure check on the coolant sysem, and go looking for external leaks again, but so far it all looks good in that arena, and have not found any leaks. I will pay extra close attention to the area under the TB.

I have owned the truck for 2 years, and have never adjusted the valves, so maybe I should take a look at that too. I will take your advice and set them at 7/11.

so what do you say about the high humidity exhaust gasses?

I'm quite confident that it is not from condensation in the exhaust system, due to it will stay humid/moist for a good hour after running at normal temps. (it just seems "wetter" than it should be).
and I'm still thinking that it should have more pep than it does.

I realize that it is no powerhouse, but this thing is flat out lethargic, ESPECIALLY when on the slightest incline.
5th gear is useless for anything other than flat and level roads, with a 180mph tailwind! LOL!
I don't think I could get it going faster than 70mph even downhill.
60-65 is pretty much maxed out on flat level freeway.

I did have another '89 yota truck, standard cab, 4spd manual, that had the 22r motor, and that thing would run circles around this truck, and it had 220,000 miles on it!

how do you figure that one ?

let me know what you think, and thanks again for your time,
Ron

[Lowcountrydave]

Hey tri5ron,

What size tires are you running? My stock tires were 28" and had the factory 4.10 gears. Some trucks came with I believe 31" and 4.56 gears from the factory. When I first put larger tires on my truck I went with 31's, I still had use of 5th gear.Though I remember something like a 9% power loss due to the tire size. But when I moved up to 33"s I think 17% power loss. 5th was not an option unless you were on a straight away with that tail wind you mentioned. I run 35's and have regeared the axles to 5.29's which are a perfect match with 35's. I can hold a steady speed of at least 85 on some really steap hills.

You are correct about the idle hunting at start-up. I forgot mine did that years ago. That is due to the computer and afm figuring out the air temp coming in the engine. After you set the idle around 750/850 I would turn off the truck and disconnect the negative battery cable. Unlike alot of newer cars, you can still clear fault codes in the CPU.

Don't forget to check that throttle cable. With slack in the cable, the butterfly valve will not fully open. Also have you noticed the gas pedal sticking when you first get in the truck. Butterfly valve in TB will have a build up of carbon. That can also cause your idle to stay elevated, and idle surging.

TPS tends to run the best set at 500 ohms. Its in the middle and seems to do fine.

Setting the valve lash is real easy on these little engines. I would take out the valve tappets, and inspect the surface which makes contact to the top of the valve. When they have excessive wear they have an hour glass pattern. I think I paid about 2 bucks a piece years back. They can also cause noise in the valve train.

Did you get to see the timing mark, when the timing was checked? Timing mark seem to stay on 5 degrees or did it jump back and fourth, say 4-6 degrees? <-- That would be due to wear in the timing components. Chain stretch, cam, crank gear wear. Also when starting up the engine cold, do you hear a rattle for a few seconds, then it quiets down? This rattle is from the drivers side chain guide wearing through. Noise goes away when the hydraulic tensioner builds pressure. Drivers side usually breaks first, giving you a rattle. The rattle is the chain making contact with the timing cover. If the rattle seems to last longer, you would want to do the timing job. Otherwise you risk the chain cutting through the cover and mixing oil in with the coolant. If and when you do the timing chain. I would draw up a picture of the timing cover. There are several different length bolts. It can be a complete nightmare trying to figure out where they go. Its possible to put the wrong bolt in and cause damage.

Your engine may be "sipping" coolant in to the cylinder. I've seen a few. There is a chance you have a small crack that only opens up as the engine gets hot, sending coolant in to the exhaust passage. Does the exhaust smell sweet, if so that is usually coolant. HG failure is usually two adjacent cyl with very low pressures. If the pressures are close, I would say the gasket is ok at this time.

To get all the air out of your coolant system, park facing slighty up hill. Turn the heater on, to make the system fully open, remove rad cap and let it cycle the thermostat a few times. Top off and should be ok.

My truck has 116 HP, your Cali version is suppose to have 103 HP, due to your emissions standards. But tuned right, it should run very well. Also I have learned after trying many different plugs. It only loves the factory NGK, or Nippodenso (sp) plugs set at .031

Look forward to hearing some of your answers.

Dave

[born2ride14]

Headgasket, and put a new fuel filter on it they have caused lots of trouble on my g-pa's truck.

[tri5ron]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys, i got a little bit of time in on it today, but my in-laws arrived (Oh JOY!), around noon today, (wasn't expecting them til 6pm), so I wont get to touch it this weekend.
I'll let you know when I can get back to it.

Btw- if anyone needs, wants, or will just take an extra set of in-laws, I've got a set that I'm willing to let go for CHEAP,....
Aahhh heck,.... How about for FREE,....

SHOOT !!!,... I"LL PAY YOU to take them !!!!!

PLEASE SAVE ME !!!!!

[PhilMoore]

Maybe a broken/leaky vacuum line somewhere?

I have a '87 with a 22R

I am on my third head gasket. The second one lasted about a week. I think the manual says to tighten the head bolts to 90 pounds, then give them another quarter turn. Got new bolts, and I torqued to 90 and gave them a half turn. It hasn't leaked for two years now. It never ran poorly with the leaky head gasket, it would just blow all the coolant out.