I need an education in suspension...

[BEAVER.989]

The more I search what's available the more confused I become. Between the different length and manufacturers of a arms, standard travel vs. long travel, link vs. no link and revalves vs. aftermarket shocks, I'm lost.

I'm looking for the ideal set-up for aggressive trail riding, including shocks, a arms, linkages, etc.

Anyone care to share their definition of the ideal GNCC, XC type set-up? I'm all ears...

[F-16Guy]

I wouldn't say I'm an expert by any stretch, but here's my $.02:

Std vs. LT -- The only difference, at least in theory, between the two is the lower shock mount location. LT arms move the mounts out toward the spindle, which increases the distance the shock shaft has to travel for a given suspension movement, which results in faster shaft speed. Making the piston move faster through the oil should make the shock more sensitive to adjustments, therefore, more tuneable. I think people are starting to realize that LT doesn't necessarily = better, especially depending on your skill level. If you can't ride to the machine's potential, you probably won't realize the gains.

Link vs. no link -- I think the benefits of this are really machine specific. Some machines, like the 450R, get too firm too quickly and buck on square edge bumps, so a different link changes the progression rate and keeps it plush longer through the stroke.

Revalves vs. Aftermarket -- I think this depends on your skill level, type of riding, the shock builder, and your ability to fine-tune the shocks. Most shocks funtion on basically the same principal of a piston moving through oil to dampen the movement. Most shocks use a piston with large holes, and control the movement via a shim stack. The diference between shocks, then, boils down to the quality of materials, nuances of piston design, orifice sizes throughout the shock, shim selection, etc.
I think 99% of the shocks out there can be made to perform well for the average non-pro rider if they are set up correctly. That being said, I think rebuild are a great deal because you get all of the features you'd pay a lot extra for with an aftermarket shock.

A good aggressive trail set-up?? -- I personally think a set of quality, name brand standard travel arms, 450R rebuilds with dual-rate springs set up for your riding style, terrain, and ability, and a stock rear single-rate rebuild that is sprung and valved for you would be perfect for aggressive trail riding.

[BEAVER.989]

Thanks F-16Guy. That was a better response than I expected. Any input on a arm width? +1", +2"?

[trailrider894]

preference as far as the +2 or +1's. please somone else chime here if i screw this up. You always people say not to get +2's because they are too big to fit through the trees yadayada......... well just hink if you have nerfs they probably stick out that 2 inches anyway so what does it matter!!! if you plan on only riding trails and stuff all the time go with +1's. if you plan on doing a little bit of everything (woods,fields,track,dunes) i would say +2's. ???

[richards]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
A good aggressive trail set-up?? -- I personally think a set of quality, name brand standard travel arms, 450R rebuilds with dual-rate springs set up for your riding style, terrain, and ability, and a stock rear single-rate rebuild that is sprung and valved for you would be perfect for aggressive trail riding.

I've been researching this quite a bit recently and I agree with the above. Just bought some 450R stock shocks that have been revalved and resprung for my weight and xc use.

I've heard the rear works pretty well as-is in terms of damping so am going to play with that before paying for a revalve. I might try a stiffer spring for my weight but for now the rear seems pretty good, it was the stock front shocks that were really punishing me on the trails.

I'm sticking with stock a-arms because I find myself squeezing between trees/rocks and wider arms would make that worse. If you ride more open, faster trails then wider arms should help with stability in fast turns.

[AZ440ex]

Originally posted by trailrider894
preference as far as the +2 or +1's. please somone else chime here if i screw this up. You always people say not to get +2's because they are too big to fit through the trees yadayada......... well just hink if you have nerfs they probably stick out that 2 inches anyway so what does it matter!!! if you plan on only riding trails and stuff all the time go with +1's. if you plan on doing a little bit of everything (woods,fields,track,dunes) i would say +2's. ???

+1.5 or 2 will give you the best "feel" but like said above you need to keep your width in mind for the trails you ride.

Out here in the desert we can run +3s and be 50 inches wide all day long!

[AZ440ex]

Also try the houser racing website. There is a few videos on there that explain how measure for the correct shock lenght etc...
Some good info there.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by AZ440ex
+1.5 or 2 will give you the best "feel" but like said above you need to keep your width in mind for the trails you ride.

Out here in the desert we can run +3s and be 50 inches wide all day long!
Yeah, I think that says it. You're pretty much limited by where you ride. My +2 arms and axle made an enormous difference in the ride and stability, but that wouldn't do much good if you were hitting trees and rocks all day.

[brodzowski]

Originally posted by trailrider894
preference as far as the +2 or +1's. please somone else chime here if i screw this up. You always people say not to get +2's because they are too big to fit through the trees yadayada......... well just hink if you have nerfs they probably stick out that 2 inches anyway so what does it matter!!! if you plan on only riding trails and stuff all the time go with +1's. if you plan on doing a little bit of everything (woods,fields,track,dunes) i would say +2's. ???

It does matter. To me at least. My nerfs are no wider than my stock rear axle and tires, are yours? My +2s were always catchin on trees at my local ridin spot on my 250r. I know this may not be a big deal to most, but that particular riding area had a sandy soil and the ruts that were dug from other riders were obviously normal quad size ruts too, so my front end always felt like it wasn't "in the rut" if you know what I mean. One wheel was always in it while the other wasn't. Most people wouldn't notice that probably but it bothered the crap outta me. I dunno. I think it depends alot on what kind of riding you do. The ride is nice for both the added plushness and the stability, but for me, I'm not sure it's worth the trade off. Somethin to think about.

[jcs003]

i would suggest stock width a-arms in xc conditions. also the stock arms are lighter than aftermarket. the shocks are key in an aggressive approach and to maximize your personal style.

i had +2 on my warrior and banshee which needed them. as for the 400ex and 250r, they handle great with stock width. just my opinion.

[BEAVER.989]

Yeah, I kinda figured +1 would make very little difference for the expense and +2 might be too much for the tight n' twistys. I guess I'll leave it stock width.

How much is too much to pay for a set of stock 450R shocks? I'm seeing them go on ebay for around $300, which seems to be high to me. By the time I got them revalved and resprung I probably could have bought a better set of aftermarkets for just a bit more...

[richards]

I watched them on ebay the last few weeks and you should be able to get some used stock shocks under $200 if you are patient. Also check the classified on the 450R boards.

[3400ben]

I good set up is +1 with 4-1 offset rims too narrow you back up. This is to help out with bump steer from rocks and trees. I have 450r shocks on my 400ex. I just had Jet motorsports revavle them. I am 100% happy with them. They feel just as good as any aftermarket shock I have used. For the rear a xc link is a must. Revavle the rear we give you the best ride while the fronts will help with arm fatiuge. imo good luck


www.jet-motorsports.com