Paddle tire Question

[RaginRedneck]

Hey guys, question for you on paddle tires.

First, I used the search function, but now I'm just more confused.

I'm getting ready to buy my first set of paddles. My buddy told me to buy Haulers. I was originally leaning toward Sandstars. From what I've read on here, Straight paddles work best for hill climbing and dragging. Sandstars turn better and are kind of an all around tire.

Here is my issue. I've never ridden in the dunes. So I'm not sure what I'll be into, hills, whipping bowls, etc. Also, I will mainly be riding in Washington and Oregon. I'm not sure if the geographical location matters for paddles.

Any help??? Experience in these areas??

Thanks all.

[droppedmazda]

i would prolly recommend the haulers there a good sand tire from what I have seen and heard i would say somewhere in the range of an 6 or 7 paddle. There is nothing wrong with a straight paddle the only real differnce between a straight paddle and a staggered paddle is the staggereds do a little better on the top end but i think in your casue it wont matter to much. here is a number to call its sandtoyz unlimited ask to talkt o john he knows his paddle tires sells more than anyone in the country and tell him what your doing and what your set up is and he will get you taken care of. You can reach John at 1-818-500-7263

[RaginRedneck]

Cool. Thanks for the info.


Anybody else got some insight/recommendations?

[Wheelie]

I run 8 paddle extreme haulers. Before these, I ran v-shaped paddles. After running Haulers, I'll never go back to v-shaped paddle.

Haulers all the way.

[hornetgod13]

I speak from experience. I've been to Glamis twice and logged more than 100 miles of riding in the dunes. Sand stars are the most popular sand tire out there and handle well in all types of sand riding. Haulers are made more for straight line riding. Drag racers love them. For manuvering you can't beat Sand Stars.

[brian76708]

ITP dune stars were my favorite tire i have rode on in teh sand

[RaginRedneck]

Originally posted by hornetgod13
I speak from experience. I've been to Glamis twice and logged more than 100 miles of riding in the dunes. Sand stars are the most popular sand tire out there and handle well in all types of sand riding. Haulers are made more for straight line riding. Drag racers love them. For manuvering you can't beat Sand Stars.

Hornetgod/anyone, what do you think of the ITP Dune Stars?

[smelly$cat]

I've riden moses lake and beverly in washington many many times. Frankly, performance wise, both will work great and you probably won't notice all that much difference. Tire pressure will make more difference than anything else.

I've also been down to Sand Lakes OR and Coosbay OR. Both are worth the drive. Sand Lakes really isn't even that far of a drive. (4hrs from you?)

I've also been to St Anthony ID. Best out of all the places I've listed. Hands down. Huge drive, but, worth it at least once.

I've also been to Little Sahara UT. Very cool as well.

I used to run a v paddle. I think they were sand skate II's. Now I run Extreme Haulers. I run 6 paddles (straight) on my 440ex and they provide plenty of traction while still allowing adequate wheel spin. Ask someone who knows and they will tell you that it's better to be "under paddled" rather than "over paddled". Meaning, unless your bike is putting out tons of power, 6-7 paddles should be plenty. A 450 should probably be running a 8 paddle, especially if it's "built".

I bought my wheels.tires via Fullerton motorsports in California. Just look them up on the net. Price was fair and they helped me figure out just the right size.

"Looks" wise, I think the straight paddle is better. My personal opinion. Here's a pic of my ex at moses lake just last weekend!

[smelly$cat]

another pic

[smelly$cat]

and the rear paddles....

[RaginRedneck]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
I've riden moses lake and beverly in washington many many times. Frankly, performance wise, both will work great and you probably won't notice all that much difference. Tire pressure will make more difference than anything else.

I've also been down to Sand Lakes OR and Coosbay OR. Both are worth the drive. Sand Lakes really isn't even that far of a drive. (4hrs from you?)

I've also been to St Anthony ID. Best out of all the places I've listed. Hands down. Huge drive, but, worth it at least once.

I've also been to Little Sahara UT. Very cool as well.

I used to run a v paddle. I think they were sand skate II's. Now I run Extreme Haulers. I run 6 paddles (straight) on my 440ex and they provide plenty of traction while still allowing adequate wheel spin. Ask someone who knows and they will tell you that it's better to be "under paddled" rather than "over paddled". Meaning, unless your bike is putting out tons of power, 6-7 paddles should be plenty. A 450 should probably be running a 8 paddle, especially if it's "built".

I bought my wheels.tires via Fullerton motorsports in California. Just look them up on the net. Price was fair and they helped me figure out just the right size.

"Looks" wise, I think the straight paddle is better. My personal opinion. Here's a pic of my ex at moses lake just last weekend!

Right on, thanks for the info. I'm gonna be making my first trip to the dunes the week after memorial day to Coos bay. I'm still up in the air on tires. I'm leaning toward sandstars due to price (Cheaper than Haulers). I'm guessing that since it will be my first time riding in the dunes, tires won't make a difference. But I'm still up in air.

Thanks for the input everyone. Any other suggestions please let me know.

-RR-:devil:

[3or4HONDA]

i just put 7 paddle haulers on today and i love them. just the wieght difference was enough to sell me on them. plus i got them for a 100 bucks with rims so i couldnt say no :D

[smelly$cat]

As long as you get some sort of paddle for the trip, you'll have a great time. I like to run my rears at 4-5 psi.

[v0lcom13sn0w]

hauler xtremes = great.

[RATPACK Z400]

Straight paddle! Was my fav for sure .tried both sand star and had straight 8 both on my z and friends liked my straight paddle handling was no difference.

[400funex]

I personally have Sand Stars and I love them. I agree with Smelly$cat that you probably won't notice a difference between them. My brother in law has AMS Sand Snakes on his 400EX, the only difference I can tell is while side hilling. The straight paddles will let you slide the rear end out a little more then the v-shape.

Before I bought my Sand Star I went with some super cheep paddles called Sand Gear. HORRIBLE choice; biggest waste of money ever! The paddles were too large and there were to many of them. I tried shaving down the paddles and it helped a little but not much. They would just dig straight down. They were very frustrating. Until I bought my Sand Stars I road a few times without paddles and it’s not too bad until you come to a large hill climb or some really soft stuff.

This is just my option and experiences with the tires, I hope it helps a little. Just remember the most important thing is to be safe, Sand Lake gets pretty crowded. If you can make the drive to Winchester Bay or Horsfall that's were the real fun is!:D

[vAnS_77]

Depends what kind of san you are riding too. Fine =Haulers Rough Wet= Stars

[v0lcom13sn0w]

if your gonna be ridin the oregon coast get hauler xtremes

[RaginRedneck]

Originally posted by v0lcom13sn0w
if your gonna be ridin the oregon coast get hauler xtremes

v0lcom13sn0w,
I see you live in Oregon, why do think the haulers are better for that area?

sand stars look bad arse. Paddle tires in general look awesome idk why.

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Originally posted by RaginRedneck
v0lcom13sn0w,
I see you live in Oregon, why do think the haulers are better for that area?

because i've had both and hauler xtremes have taller paddles than regular haulers and they're cheap if you know where to get them... i had sand stars and ITP and haulers and haulers are the best paddle i've ever used i use an 8 paddle hauler xtreme im not sure how tall it is i'd have to go look but works out perfectly. plus the majority of people out here have haulers too. i guess its really just personal preference... i've seen people runnin holeshots out on the sand ha. either way you go though will probably work out great for you im just sayin haulers so far are the best i've had.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by v0lcom13sn0w
...hauler xtremes have taller paddles than regular haulers...

Haulers (standard) and Hauler Extremes have paddles of the same height--7/8" inch tall. The difference is the cross sectional shape/thickness of the paddles. Extremes should be thicker but not taller.

These "blade" images are not on the same scale but you can see the difference in their cross sectional shape.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/HaulervsExtreme.jpg

If you've got Extremes that have taller paddles than some other Skat-Trak, the others may be Gliders (5/8" tall) rather than std Haulers [shrug].

[GPracer2500]

Smelly, your 440 looks sweet with that white frame. I like.

[smelly$cat]

Thanks!

[seventythree]

I just got back from my 1st trip to Winchester Bay which was my 1st trip to BIG sand. I borrowed a set of 8 paddle haulers from a friends built 250r. There was nothing I couldn't climb, nothing! I do have a gripe thou...they hook and shoot you in a straight line even with the bars turned. I think I'll end up getting the 6 paddles, so I can spin the rears easier and hang the *** out. the 8's just wanna hook and go.

One of the guys in or group was running those Sand Geckos on his Polaris Outlaw 500... he got stuck everywhere! I'll try to attach a picture of him stuck on "Banshee Hill" with my girlfriend going around him on a Kawi BF650SRA with no paddles...

[seventythree]

uh

[smelly$cat]

"One of the guys in or group was running those Sand Geckos on his Polaris Outlaw 500"....

Did he try letting some air out of his tires? Run at 3-4 psi?

[seventythree]

good question...I dunno, but he sure had a hell of a time and he's not a newbie so you gotta wonder

[v0lcom13sn0w]

gotta love banshee hill especially wheelie-ing up it with someone on the back of your bike ha good times at dunefest last year

[dunatic]

20-10-8 (8) paddle extreme (bead to bead), mounted on 8x8 rims. if stock.

22-11-8 (8) paddle extreme (bead to bead), mounted on 8x8 rims if heavily modified.

I have many (20+) years of riding here in the NW....Ive owned 20+ bikes in the last 15 years that I only dune ride. Ive tried every possible combo there is and hands down the above will work the best for ya.

The V paddles work great for newbies that are a lil timid (their easier to turn on a hill). If you "go 4 it" than a straight paddle is what youll want.

[smelly$cat]

You really think 8 paddle on a 400 or 440 ex? I'm rolling 6 and the seem to hook up really well for me. (440ex)

[dunatic]

I run 22-11-8 (10) paddle extreme (super lights) on my 416 (with a 20 shot of NOS).

Mack Daddy (my bud) runs the same on his 440 stroker.

neither of us bog. but we are running +4 swingers too.

So 8's will work just fine...and give some room for improvements.

the key is during the winter to run less air pressure and allow the tire/paddle to flex and relieve some of the hook up. We run 2 psi in the winter and 4-5 in the summer.

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
You really think 8 paddle on a 400 or 440 ex? I'm rolling 6 and the seem to hook up really well for me. (440ex)

i run 8 paddle hauler xtremes on my 400 they dont bog me at all.

[smelly$cat]

Got some pics?

How does the swinger length effect paddle performance? I thought that really only effected your pivot point for wheelies. (longer making it harder).

440 stroker? I thought a 440 was normally only achieved with a bore change. What sort of bore is he running?

20 shot of NOS on a 416? How does that compare to the 440. I assume you have the advantage. Does it only kick in at WOT?

Sorry for the 20 questions, just some interesting set ups you are describing that I'm not too familiar with.

[smelly$cat]

"i run 8 paddle hauler xtremes on my 400 they dont bog me at all."

It would be interesting to see how your bike runs with 6 paddles. I'd like to try 8 personally and see what diff it makes.

[dunatic]

Ive ran 6p gliders, 8p gliders, 6-8-10 p haulers, extreme's....you name it.

I have a setup on one of my old bikes that ran a 8p (glider/hauler combo).

In Oregon, on the coast, with it's course sand...the hauler or extreme work the best with the bigger (heavier) bikes and riders.

Over East (Central Oregon, Sand Mountain & Saint Anthony's) you can get a way with a smaller sized paddle, as the altitude robs some power and the desert sand is finer

[scuzz]

You could run skat trak edges if you wanted to be able to whip it like the ITP's.

The skat trak's are the way to go though since they weigh a lot less than the molded tires.

[Wheelie]

SmellyCat--The 440 stroker is a +4mm stroke with a +2mm bore.

Stock: 85x70mm
440 Stroker 87x74mm, it's a killer setup.

I run 8 paddles extremes at 4.5psi, no bog, it turns the tires very well.

[smelly$cat]

"SmellyCat--The 440 stroker is a +4mm stroke with a +2mm bore.

Stock: 85x70mm
440 Stroker 87x74mm, it's a killer setup."

Thanks for the info man :)

I picked up my 440 second hand. I'm pretty sure it was just bored out though.

[mitchamus]

Whatever sand tires you get make sure you get 8" size.

If you over paddle wont you rob some of your HPs, and the 400ex doesnt have many to spare...

Also Haulers suck if you are with friends you will roost the eff out of them.

[smelly$cat]

"Also Haulers suck if you are with friends you will roost the eff out of them."

dude..... that's half the fun of going to the dunes with haulers! lol

[RaginRedneck]

I ended up going with the Sandstars on Douglas .160 rims. I went with the sandstars because the jist that I got from everyone is that unless I rode a lot of dunes, or was an experienced dune rider, I wouldn't really notice the difference.....so I went with price. LOL

<a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii106/redneck949/?action=view&current=DSC00734.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii106/redneck949/DSC00734.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> (http://) <a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii106/redneck949/?action=view&current=DSC00732.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii106/redneck949/DSC00732.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> (http://)

[smelly$cat]

So, how was your trip with them?

[RaginRedneck]

My trip isn't till the end of this month. Heading to Coos Bay, OR after Memorial Day. Which is a good thing because I need the time to get my camper wired and checked out.

[smelly$cat]

Ah, got it. Enjoy!

One thing I noticed is that it looks like your paddles are not lined up with each other. You can run them as is, or, if you have time, remove one of the hubs and rotate it one spline on the axle to yield the paddles being lined up. <hope this makes sense>. Otherwise, the bike will wiggle back n fourth when you're on the hard stuff.

[RaginRedneck]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
Ah, got it. Enjoy!

One thing I noticed is that it looks like your paddles are not lined up with each other. You can run them as is, or, if you have time, remove one of the hubs and rotate it one spline on the axle to yield the paddles being lined up. <hope this makes sense>. Otherwise, the bike will wiggle back n fourth when you're on the hard stuff.

Are you talking about the rear paddles? Should the paddles be aligned side to side, i.e. the paddles are grabbing sand at the exact same time?

[smelly$cat]

Yes, that is the ideal set up.

[RaginRedneck]

Originally posted by smelly$cat
Yes, that is the ideal set up.


Cool, thanks for the info. I never would have thought of that.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by RaginRedneck
Are you talking about the rear paddles? Should the paddles be aligned side to side, i.e. the paddles are grabbing sand at the exact same time?


Some people say yes, some people say no. Mine are aligned because the vibrations of when they are not drive me nuts.

[smelly$cat]

The reason I say "yes" is because if they are lined up, both tires should free spin ever so slightly when the moment comes where you are "in between" paddles touching the sand.

As I mentioned earlier, having too many paddles is worse than having too few.

You want some wheel spin make it easier for your engine to rev higher.

If the paddles are taking turns contacting the sand, the RPM's won't be able to spin up as easily and the hook up won't be consistent. In my mind, it's almost like running more paddles.

Now, in this case, his paddles are not off by much, so, it probably won't make much difference.

But, if you have the time, it's easy to fix and it will make you look like less of a rookie at the dunes.

My 2 nickles....