Blown Motor Again!!

[mymastifftucker]

I aint talking about worn out rings here either. Last summer my 450 started to make a bad rattling noise in the engine. I immediatly stopped riding and brought it home. I figured the valves needed to be adjusted or something. When I took the valve cover off the cam chain was just flopping around. I bought the Honda extended warranty with my bike.......and they put the $1900 in the motor rebuild (basically new from the bottom up). I always had the Honda dealer do the services on my bike, and it was never ridden more than 15-20 hrs between services. The dealer said the problem was, there was no oil in the motor. I got the bike back and took it on vacation with me, and rode 3-4 days. I hadnt had time to take it back out until 2 weeks ago and guess what......started making a bad racket again. Stopped riding and brought it back to the honda dealer. I got a call today saying now the cylinder itself and the piston are shot. They say there was no oil in the motor again. I washed it before it went to the dealer and showed my wife the oil line in the sight glass (right halfway between the L and the H). Now I have to wait and see what the Honda rep says. My 450 has a total of maybe 75 hours on the whole bike. I bought a Honda because of its notorious reliability. Anyone else have problems like this? I dont race it either, my riding is all fast trail riding. I feel kind of let down......cant wait to see what the brass at "big red" have to say.

[rdj450]

sounds fishy. did you check the oil after it started making the noise? did you notice oil leaking from anywhere? sounds to me like it should be covered under dealer rework. dont give'm any more money. honda's are very reliable. if i were you i would start servicing the engine myself. its cheaper and it doesnt take long or get it serviced somewhere else

[mymastifftucker]

I know its cheap and easy, I just didnt want the dealer or honda to have an excuse if something like this happened. Its a lot easier for them to say the owner did something wrong, deny the warranty!!. I just used my whole tax return to pay off the loan too:(

[Turboderf]

Originally posted by mymastifftucker
I aint talking about worn out rings here either. Last summer my 450 started to make a bad rattling noise in the engine. I immediatly stopped riding and brought it home. I figured the valves needed to be adjusted or something. When I took the valve cover off the cam chain was just flopping around. I bought the Honda extended warranty with my bike.......and they put the $1900 in the motor rebuild (basically new from the bottom up). I always had the Honda dealer do the services on my bike, and it was never ridden more than 15-20 hrs between services. The dealer said the problem was, there was no oil in the motor. I got the bike back and took it on vacation with me, and rode 3-4 days. I hadnt had time to take it back out until 2 weeks ago and guess what......started making a bad racket again. Stopped riding and brought it back to the honda dealer. I got a call today saying now the cylinder itself and the piston are shot. They say there was no oil in the motor again. I washed it before it went to the dealer and showed my wife the oil line in the sight glass (right halfway between the L and the H). Now I have to wait and see what the Honda rep says. My 450 has a total of maybe 75 hours on the whole bike. I bought a Honda because of its notorious reliability. Anyone else have problems like this? I dont race it either, my riding is all fast trail riding. I feel kind of let down......cant wait to see what the brass at "big red" have to say.
Yes the same thing happen to me and i also had the warranty they trow my bike apart for 200.00 and said we will not cover the repair because you must race this bike WRONG i dont race just ride fast trails they also you must race because i have hyper wheels , nerf bars and i have a number on my bike yes i have numbers witch is my brithday numbers i had to rebuild it myself crank shaft , cylinder piston and all the bearings the best part is honda sent me a survey on how well they took care of the problem i think honda SUCKS but good luck to you

[rdj450]

never get an ext warranty. its a waste. dealers are out to make money and if there is anything they can do to get out paying they will do it(this goes for all brands). if you raise enough stink and dont take no for answer they might pay for it. it'l be kind of a headache goin through the process. you might have to contact the higher ups.

[RATPACK Z400]

I had buddy with defective a-arm we noticed the first ride, honda said they would cover then after 2weeks said no he only rode one time warrenty,s aren,t worth the paper there writen on they ALLWAYS come up with excuss not to cover the cost,s .And that go,s for all brand,s !All it is is money your giving dealer for nothing in future!

can u please use the little ' when u type.?

[RATPACK Z400]

Doe,s it matter ! this isn,t school dude have,nt been in one in twenty years and my spelling and rest aren,t going to be on par this is the best it get,s not going back to please you if your talking to me that is?

[andrewt]

I had a 450r about a year ago. wasn't riding it just trail riding and gravel roads. I had been riding about 2 hours one day and it started making a ratling nois when I stopped and had it idling. it was coming from the clutch cover and sounded like the clutch was going out. it was also trying to pull it's self when it was in neutral. I road it home and pulled off the clutch cover but then decided to take it to the dealer ( I dind't have a warranty and wans't the original owner of the bike). The dealership had it for 3 weeks ( I hate any dealership service department) then they called and said that they had good news and bad news. good news was they figured out the problem, bad news was it was 1600 dollars worth. They said it needed all new bearings, seals, gaskets in the lower end, also said it needed all new counter balancer and bearings, new clutch frictons and seals, clutch hub, clutch basket, spark plug, and pison rings. I said no, went and picked it up. pulled it appart myself. didn't need piston rings, cylinder still had factory cross hatches in it, put a new clutch in it ( ebay special) adjusted the valves and it did just fine. About a month later a keeper dropped out of the valve and the valve dropped at idle, luckily dind't hurt anything but I think that was my brohter putting the head on, but anyways, watch what the dealer wants to do because they try to tack on other parts just to make some cash. I fixed it for about 125 bucks when they wanted 1600. hondas are great and reliable ya just gotta do your maintenance. Theres always a lemon or 2 out there but ya can't make your oppinons on those one or two, my two cents.

[k265r]

Dealerships make manufactures look bad. auto industry,atv, motorcycles all of them. Makes me wonder what the manufactures could do about it. Makes sense why nobody likes dealerships.

[andrewt]

it really does make the manufacurers look bad. you wait 3 to 4 weeks to get your estimate and work done, they try to tack on a bunch of stuff that doesen't even need to be done, they're rude and hateful on the phone and in the lobby and they act like your an idiot when you don't just whip em out a blank check, and if you wanna do some work yourself to save some money they'll screw ya around for a month or two about warranty issues.

Originally posted by k265r
Dealerships make manufactures look bad. auto industry,atv, motorcycles all of them. Makes me wonder what the manufactures could do about it. Makes sense why nobody likes dealerships.

[mymastifftucker]

I am going to wait and see what the Honda rep says. The dealerships are going to make the money regardless if they get it from me or from Honda through warranty work. If its not covered, I'll fix it myself and sell it, and the 2 honda cars I have. If it is covered........I'll probably sell the POS and buy something reliable like a KYMCO :) Thanks for all the feedback, I kind of feel better that its not just a problem I am having. Kind of sucks that I sold my banshee to buy this though, all I had to do to that was rings every now and then.

[mymastifftucker]

I do agree about dealerships making the manufacturer (?) look bad. Just the attitude of the guy on the phone pissed me off. When I told him I had only ridden the bike 4-5 times since it was rebuilt, he made it sound like it must be 4-5 days of racing. My 450 hasnt been on any kind of race track ever. Then when he said all the parts that hadnt been replaced the first time were bad, it just made me madder. Maybe they should have fixed it all the FIRST time. I had the same thing as you guys with waiting for an answer already too. When I dropped it off I was told I'd have an answer in 2-3 days. I finally called a week later to get an answer. I bet I dont hear anything else now for at least another week........gives me lots of time to ***** about it.

[Sjorge450R]

dealerships are the biggest crooks known to our sport. As for how they claim everything is wrong, if I were ever to get my quad serviced (never in a million years...NEVER) I would force them to show my all the parts that they took out and replaced. Just one thing, no way to be sure they are parts from my motor.....

[andrewt]

Yea definatley with the parts, theres no way to knwo for sure but just the same I always have em save the parts for me on anything ( xcept when I hit a deer with my truck I knew those were messed up hehe) Just the agrevation and jerking you around makes ya wanna pull your hair out. Your as good as gold until you've paid and walked out the door, once they got the money your just another flash in the pan and a hastle to hem.

[coryatver]

I would find another dealer. Any Honda dealer can do warranty work for you doesn't have to be where you bought it.

My buddy blew up his 04 yfz 3 times all covered under warranty. He raced mx also. He ran it with a no rev limit cdi with 18 in tires and kept running down the road wide open and blowing it. He would put the stock cdi back on and they would put in a new motor under warranty. It depends on your dealer!

Also I would never get my motor rebuilt at a dealership unless they are paying for it beucause most dealerships do horrible sketchy work. If you end up having to pay send your motor to a motorbuilder!

[mymastifftucker]

I havent heard anything yet so I am kind of jumping to conclusions. I didnt buy it from my local dealer. When the black 07's(with the red frame) first came out I had to have one, so I got one in Charlotte NC (110 miles away). I was bringing it in for its first service and the local dealer hadnt even seen one yet!! I'll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.




Now that I am thinking of it......My 450 was popping and snapping real bad on deceleration and it never did this before it was rebuilt. Usually that means its running lean right? I am running a 175 main with the CRF needle. I checked the jetting before I brought it to the shop, thinking that they changed it back to stock, and it was still the 175. I dont know if this has anything to do with my problem.

[coryatver]

you could start off by throwing the k&n filter in the garbage. That could be a lot of your problem. They let in dust

[hondaracing_13]

I just got out of MMI and they told us that you get flat rate on warranty work. My teacher also said at some dealers the service adviser and lead tech will sometimes try to turn you away becouse of this. If the book says it takes 3 hours and it takes you 8 hours then you only get paid for the 3 hours. If the tech hasn't came across the problem you are having then they try to turn ya away.

[hondaracing_13]

Originally posted by mymastifftucker
I havent heard anything yet so I am kind of jumping to conclusions. I didnt buy it from my local dealer. When the black 07's(with the red frame) first came out I had to have one, so I got one in Charlotte NC (110 miles away). I was bringing it in for its first service and the local dealer hadnt even seen one yet!! I'll let you guys know as soon as I hear something.




Now that I am thinking of it......My 450 was popping and snapping real bad on deceleration and it never did this before it was rebuilt. Usually that means its running lean right? I am running a 175 main with the CRF needle. I checked the jetting before I brought it to the shop, thinking that they changed it back to stock, and it was still the 175. I dont know if this has anything to do with my problem. Where are you going in Charlotte? I know Ride Now in Concard and I don't like Ride Now. I think it is called Iron Horse in Monroe I have herd is really good to deal with.

[mc_racer]

Just a few thought on this, don't know if it will help or not.

Why did they tear it all the way down before saying it didn't have any oil? Seems to me the "missing" oil would have been discovered way before they get that far into it.

Second, if you run a motor without oil, lots of other parts fail before the piston, rings, and cylinder. None of those are part of the pressurized part of the oil system. The parts that receive oil from the pump will be the first to fail if there has been oil starvation. There would be evidence of that if it happened, siezed bearings, discolored/overheated bearings. That will happen way before the piston fails.

Trust me, I'm in the oil change business. We do 20,000 oil changes a month. I've delt with no oil situations. It starts with a rod knocking, then a seized rod or main bearing. Sometimes a seized cam bearing. But it has never caused piston, ring, or cylinder problems.

I guess, long story short, if you caused the failure through oil starvation, any reputable mechanic will be able to tell. They need to show you the proof.

[mymastifftucker]

I'll bring in the work order from the first rebuild and post it. I agree with your view on the situation. Now you really have me thinking about it. The 450's only hold about 1/2 a quart of oil, this doesnt even seem like enough to properly lube the engine, especially at almost 10,000 rpm. There's lots of stuff that should be worn out. I will see if I can get a copy of what they say is wrong this time and post that also.

I bought my 450 at Honda of Charlotte, and they seemed to be good guys to work with. If it wasnt a 2 hour ride I would be bringing it to them. Then again, when the motor was rebuilt the first time, there was no questions asked about anything here at my local dealer. Until this last week, I hadnt really had a neg. experience with them.

[mymastifftucker]

Originally posted by mc_racer
Just a few thought on this, don't know if it will help or not.

Why did they tear it all the way down before saying it didn't have any oil? Seems to me the "missing" oil would have been discovered way before they get that far into it.

Second, if you run a motor without oil, lots of other parts fail before the piston, rings, and cylinder. None of those are part of the pressurized part of the oil system. The parts that receive oil from the pump will be the first to fail if there has been oil starvation. There would be evidence of that if it happened, siezed bearings, discolored/overheated bearings. That will happen way before the piston fails.

Trust me, I'm in the oil change business. We do 20,000 oil changes a month. I've delt with no oil situations. It starts with a rod knocking, then a seized rod or main bearing. Sometimes a seized cam bearing. But it has never caused piston, ring, or cylinder problems.

I guess, long story short, if you caused the failure through oil starvation, any reputable mechanic will be able to tell. They need to show you the proof.



The dealer is the one that services the bike. I know the bike had oil in it, I showed the sight glass to my wife when I washed it. I have paid real close attention to this since the first rebuild. Everytime I ride it, I wash it and armor-all the damn thing, it is far from abused and neglected. I assume they tore it all the way down because if it is under warranty they need to know what to tell honda they need. I am not sure. I will ask for the parts if it comes down to it.


I appreciate the insight from someone who knows, it will help with my arguments!! Thanks

Originally posted by mymastifftucker
I'll bring in the work order from the first rebuild and post it. I agree with your view on the situation. Now you really have me thinking about it. The 450's only hold about 1/2 a quart of oil, this doesnt even seem like enough to properly lube the engine, especially at almost 10,000 rpm. There's lots of stuff that should be worn out. I will see if I can get a copy of what they say is wrong this time and post that also.

I bought my 450 at Honda of Charlotte, and they seemed to be good guys to work with. If it wasnt a 2 hour ride I would be bringing it to them. Then again, when the motor was rebuilt the first time, there was no questions asked about anything here at my local dealer. Until this last week, I hadnt really had a neg. experience with them.

honestly i will never take my r to any dealer ship other than iron horse mc in monroe nc.i do all my own maintence so i dont have to take it anywhere. i would check them out there really nice good guys.. very honest and do great work..!!

[hondaracing_13]

Originally posted by hondarider661
honestly i will never take my r to any dealer ship other than iron horse mc in monroe nc.i do all my own maintence so i dont have to take it anywhere. i would check them out there really nice good guys.. very honest and do great work..!! Agree, I have been there with a friend to buy a bike. I use the dealer in Johnson City, TN, between me and my parents we bought 23 bikes and atvs from them and they do there best to get my stuff out quick. Now I do my own maintence becouse it is cheeper.

[mymastifftucker]

I cant imagine the crap I would be in if I did my own oil changes and had this motor issue. The dealer is just going to say you did something wrong yourself. I can at least prove right now that the oil was changed, because THEY did it. I will check out the place in Monroe though, sounds like a good place to work with. THanks

yea u wont be dissapointed. i order mostly all my stuff from them and it arrives like the next day. good guys to.

[lzyga05]

i think the 450r has 2 oil chambers one for the trany and one for the piston and rod , crank

[ricks450]

why in the **** are the dealers saying you must race the bike. its a 450r. r as in race. its a race qaud. dumb*****. that would piss me off.

[mymastifftucker]

I completly agree, but get this one......you can not buy the extended warranty on the CRF450R, since it is a "race bike". I was told the only way to have the wear on the piston that is present is from racing the bike. It does piss me off!! I still havent heard from the F-ing dealer about the warranty and they are closed on Mondays. I'll try and find out tommorow whats up.

[andrewt]

You just gonna have to call them about once and hour on the hour and bug the crap out of em until they do something. Just another way to save them some money, but fight this thing as hard as you can. Drag every family member and friend you can down there to prove ya don't race and flash an attorney number at em if ya need to... stick it to em and don't let em get away with it.

So does this man that if you put racing stripes on a car....American racing wheels on your truck.... Or stickers in your back glass advertizing racing that's it's used for racing and voids the warranty???

Like I said stick it to em.

[mymastifftucker]

OK here's the story

on the rebuild on May 13, 2008 the following was replaced because only 400cc of oil was in the crankcase.

Lifter, tensioner
guide, cam chain
sprocket, cam (36t)
tensioner, cam chain
crankshaft
ring set, piston
gasket kit a
gasket kit b
4 different oil seals
chain, cam
pin, piston
clip
oil, antifreeze etc.
and 2 hours of labor (pretty quick mechanics arent they)

total of $1275.42
all covered by Honda Warranty


OK heres the bill from today (bike was dropped off 4-8-09)

Cylinder
gasket, cylinder
piston
pin, piston
clip
ring set, piston
gasket, cyl hd

total of $500.06

I was told Honda didnt warranty the labor but they did it as "good will":D

The story also seems to have changed from "theres no oil in it again" to preaching to me about 15 hr intervals between piston changes. We all know thats bullshi$. Maybe if you race it, but not trail riding. I am going to give all this info to Honda and see what they say. My bike is quieter (motor wise) right now than it was the day I bought it. I did question him about how I was supposed to keep track of the hours if there is no meter......if Honda wants us to change pistons at an exact interval, should we be able to tell where we are at? I know people who are still riding 04's with stock pistons so maybe I just have a junk. Who knows............

I dont know if I want to keep it now or not, its hard to trust the thing now. I did

[quadjam]

i have a 2007 trx 450er,last year my engine had about 50 hrs on it, it also started making a rattling noise from the engine.honda dealer tore the engine apart and on the intake side the piston and bore was worn. I couldn't believe it! 1500 dollars later, i researched what could have happened, because i couldn't have that happen again. i figured it to be an aftermarket air filter.i put my original foam filter back on. i oiled my aftermarket airfilter well and it was sealed properly I've heard that they let alot of finer dirt in so i wouldn't recomend k&* air filter. thats my story anyway.do you have a k&n airfilter?

[Turboderf]

Originally posted by mymastifftucker
OK here's the story

on the rebuild on May 13, 2008 the following was replaced because only 400cc of oil was in the crankcase.

Lifter, tensioner
guide, cam chain
sprocket, cam (36t)
tensioner, cam chain
crankshaft
ring set, piston
gasket kit a
gasket kit b
4 different oil seals
chain, cam
pin, piston
clip
oil, antifreeze etc.
and 2 hours of labor (pretty quick mechanics arent they)

total of $1275.42
all covered by Honda Warranty


OK heres the bill from today (bike was dropped off 4-8-09)

Cylinder
gasket, cylinder
piston
pin, piston
clip
ring set, piston
gasket, cyl hd

total of $500.06

I was told Honda didnt warranty the labor but they did it as "good will":D

The story also seems to have changed from "theres no oil in it again" to preaching to me about 15 hr intervals between piston changes. We all know thats bullshi$. Maybe if you race it, but not trail riding. I am going to give all this info to Honda and see what they say. My bike is quieter (motor wise) right now than it was the day I bought it. I did question him about how I was supposed to keep track of the hours if there is no meter......if Honda wants us to change pistons at an exact interval, should we be able to tell where we are at? I know people who are still riding 04's with stock pistons so maybe I just have a junk. Who knows............

I dont know if I want to keep it now or not, its hard to trust the thing now. I did to preaching to me about 15 hr intervals between piston changes. We all know thats bullshi$.
Thats crazy ask them what the oil change intervals are, on my 06 its 100 hours or 12 mouths they did not cover mine honda warranty sucks

[Turboderf]

is the 450r a race bike :confused:

[mymastifftucker]

Originally posted by quadjam
i have a 2007 trx 450er,last year my engine had about 50 hrs on it, it also started making a rattling noise from the engine.honda dealer tore the engine apart and on the intake side the piston and bore was worn. I couldn't believe it! 1500 dollars later, i researched what could have happened, because i couldn't have that happen again. i figured it to be an aftermarket air filter.i put my original foam filter back on. i oiled my aftermarket airfilter well and it was sealed properly I've heard that they let alot of finer dirt in so i wouldn't recomend k&* air filter. thats my story anyway.do you have a k&n airfilter?

Yes I have a K+N filter with the outerwear. I have used K+N's on everything I own for 14 years (cars, trucks, 4-wheelers, motorcycles). People either love them or hate them. I have heard a lot of people saying they let dirt or dust through, but I have never had a problem. Keep them oiled and clean and they work just as good as anything else. It does say on my work order to "check for dirt injestion".....I guess they didnt find any!

[mymastifftucker]

Originally posted by Turboderf
is the 450r a race bike :confused:

You can look at it however you want I guess. You certainly dont buy one to pull your trailer around the farm. But just because you go to the Subaru dealer and buy a WRX doesnt mean you are going out rally racing either. Some of us old folks just like to still haul the mail on the trails!! It is definetly a "sport" bike, with racing roots (and potential) but whatever.




Do you really go 100 hours between oil changes? What are you using for oil?