Cheaters AKA Cherry Pickers

[national #9]

What is it every year at the nationals that makes that peice of wood, worth cheating for? Every year they catch A riders riding, the b and c classes when they normally ride in the A class. I didn't get to go this past weekend to the Ballance race, but a friend of mine said that on sunday morning Smitty had a whole list of these cheaters, and was DQing them right and left. What can be done, so they don't do it again? I know if a person gets caught lying about their age, they are removed for 1 year from national competition, why, shouldn't these cheaters be ruled upon the same way? They are stealing the prizes, and points from the riders that deserve them. What can be done to put a stop to the cherry picking.

[quad59]

Because all these chodes think that C class wins = sponsorship dollars or big time progress in there career. I know of a c class national rider who rides money quad in local races ( not AMA) kinda sad. But then again I know a racer who raced his first race against me in the summer of 07 who now already rides B in nationals and is doing well.

[250r rider 88]

its even sadder when these sandbagging S.O.B.'s show up at local races and race C class:mad:

[wilkin250r]

So, are you mad because they keep beating you, and you think YOU deserve that piece of wood because anybody better than you should be in a higher class?



Look, I understand why you would hate sandbaggers, but look at THEIR point of view. Is there anything wrong with a B-class rider pushing himself into the A-class in a small local circuit in order to pit himself against better riders, and improve his skills?

In your mind, he's a sandbagger. But in his mind, he's is a normal B-class rider that bumps himself up in local circuits in order to push himself a little harder in a local circuit that he's not worried about placing poorly.

[dehner47]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
So, are you mad because they keep beating you, and you think YOU deserve that piece of wood because anybody better than you should be in a higher class?



Look, I understand why you would hate sandbaggers, but look at THEIR point of view. Is there anything wrong with a B-class rider pushing himself into the A-class in a small local circuit in order to pit himself against better riders, and improve his skills?

In your mind, he's a sandbagger. But in his mind, he's is a normal B-class rider that bumps himself up in local circuits in order to push himself a little harder in a local circuit that he's not worried about placing poorly.

bingo. you hit that one right on the head there wilkin250r.

not trying to bash your thread or say you have no right to be mad cause you do. if a guy runs A at a local race and C at the nationals, totally understand your frustration. but please remember, there is a HUGE difference in speed and skill level from the nationals to a local race. in my opinion(which dont mean jack) B class at the nationals in equal to the A class at local races. i really hope you dont expect kids that run the A class at your local district race to go to his one or two nationals a year and run with dudes that run all of them in the A class/pro-am class. he would be putting himself and the national riders at risk. and thats the last thing you would need to deal with as a A class/ pro-am rider. some local yocal that thinks he can beat the big boys and ride way over his head and possibly take someone out. just my 2 cents. but again, what do i know :devil:

[250r rider 88]

i agree with what you guys say i just dont like the guys that go to the nationals and run in the back of A class and come to the local races and run C and blow everyone there away, lots of tracks just dont care, they get their money and go home

[loons]

I don't know about where you are from, but out here in so cal, I have riders racing a class and doing very well. I mean top 3 or 4 and the occasional win. These are small series and racing isn't a big thing out here really. Maybe 20 riders race the series, and not all of them show up every race.

So when my riders go to nationals they race c class. The national caliber riders in the a class are way faster. Almost to the point where it would be unsafe for my riders to be on the track with them.

So should I make them race a class because the talent pool isn't the same?? 2 of my riders have had podium finishes in national events, and they actually race b class in ITP Quadcross with the same results.

Should my riders have to race a class and because the level of competition at the local races is lower?

You also failed to mention a serious problem that I am trying to touch upon. Riders riding above their ability. Like a B class rider racing pro am or pro. MAybe you should think about that one?

I agree there is sand bagging that goes on. But things are not always what they seem.

[Blizzard24]

AMA rules clearly state if you race in a certain class at any series, you are to race that same class at all other series, there is no gray area with this rule.
So to say the talent level is greater at the national level so you should drop down a class or two is rediculous, you are breaking the rules.
Clear-Cut it is what it seems, you arent good enough to hang with others in your class so you drop to a class where you think you can be competitive for a win.

These guys that run in the front at Nationals train their asses off, put more work into your racing and race the class YOU put yourself in

It is sandbagging a class if you drop down becuase you know you arent as fast as the other guys... PERIOD

[national #9]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
AMA rules clearly state if you race in a certain class at any series, you are to race that same class at all other series, there is no gray area with this rule.
So to say the talent level is greater at the national level so you should drop down a class or two is rediculous, you are breaking the rules.
Clear-Cut it is what it seems, you arent good enough to hang with others in your class so you drop to a class where you think you can be competitive for a win.

These guys that run in the front at Nationals train their asses off, put more work into your racing and race the class YOU put yourself in

It is sandbagging a class if you drop down becuase you know you arent as fast as the other guys... PERIOD THATS A BIG AMEN, If you can't play by the rules, then stay home. I agree
100 %

[coryatver]

I got 3rd in my local series C class last year so I have to advance to B this year and I know I am not anywhere near B national level but I can't race C becuase I got 3rd last year in championship points even though when a national C level guy would show up and race locals in C I would get crushed I still beat him in points becuase they don't come to every race they are now in C this year in nationals so they are also running C in my local series again?:huh And I am forced to race B? The race the same class as you do at nationals at locals system doesn't really seem to work to good. Although a rule is a rule so I will just have to practice hard and hope I do decent in B class. all i am saying is if you run a local series and are forced to advance to the next class that doesn't necessarily mean you would have advanced to the next class if you were racing at a national level.

[elementryder]

personaly i belive that national riders should beable to race a higher local class, i race B-class at the nationals and do pretty well. but when i come and race B-class at the locals people arent very happy! it seems to me, when most riders get beat the look for an excuse other than they didnt ride hard enough

[loons]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
AMA rules clearly state if you race in a certain class at any series, you are to race that same class at all other series, there is no gray area with this rule.
So to say the talent level is greater at the national level so you should drop down a class or two is rediculous, you are breaking the rules.
Clear-Cut it is what it seems, you arent good enough to hang with others in your class so you drop to a class where you think you can be competitive for a win.

These guys that run in the front at Nationals train their asses off, put more work into your racing and race the class YOU put yourself in

It is sandbagging a class if you drop down becuase you know you arent as fast as the other guys... PERIOD

It might be the rule, but it doesn't make it right. How do you get better if you race a class where you win every time. Especially if you win with ease. How do you get better if you can't bump up at the local races and battle with faster riders? Especially when those faster riders are slower than the front runners of the c class at the nationals. Wouldn't you rather race in a class where you could battle and be a mid pack racer? Maybe the next season you could get faster and be a consistant podium finisher?

Now I agree there are sand baggers. But my riders train hard. So are we supposed to spend thousands of dollars traveling and racing in a class way above the head of my riders to make officials feels better? They are getting my money. You'd think they would want to regulate the classes on both ends. Keep the sand baggers out, and keep the kids from riding above their heads as well.

Dunstin Nelson raced in the same series as us in Pro. He beat everyone so bad they started asking him to start backwards in the gate. He refused and instead waited untill they got to the first turn. By the 3rd lap he had passed them all and pulled a 10-12 second lead. He was racing pro's like Levi Marana and Kyle Chislock. Where was he supposed to go from there? He was training and making a little money. Pro riders started not showing up. So how is that right or fair for Dustin Nelson, or the other pro's? Those pro's raced in ITP quadcross and got smoked.

What about when Kory Ellis or Dana Creech used to race Pro and Pro am in a race weekend to make more money? How is that fair?

[dehner47]

Originally posted by coryatver
Although a rule is a rule so I will just have to practice hard and hope I do decent in B class.

thats the best answer and best attitude to have.put your head down and bush your @$$. thats the only way to get any better. sandbagging has been going on forever and nothing will ever totally stop it. so you gotta stop b****ing about it and work harder to move up to A class and yall wont have to worry about someone sandbagging and beating you. better yet, use that anger for motivation to improve your skills and make you get faster:D

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by coryatver
Although a rule is a rule so I will just have to practice hard and hope I do decent in B class.

That's all you can do. I run the hardest I can and hope to do well. If I have a good race and I have sandbaggers finish better than me, I don't get upset. I try to get faster.

[Warnerade]

Your pathetic Alex, remember your actions this weekend.

[national #9]

Originally posted by Warnerade
Your pathetic Alex, remember your actions this weekend. hi Shawn, Alex had to work this weekend, and I also had to work, and couldn't make it, how did you do at balances:D

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by national #9
hi Shawn, Alex had to work this weekend, and I also had to work, and couldn't make it, how did you do at balances:D It went good, I did something you've never been able to do. Qualify for both of my classes!

[national #9]

Hi Shawn, why do you have to search out all of my postings, and start a debate? I am not Alex, and he nor I was at the Ballance national this past week end. Why are you again, singeling me out to *****, come on Shawn you can not keep blaming me for your short commings. What is the source of all of this anger? please tell us why you are again blaming me for your problems.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by national #9
Hi Shawn, why do you have to search out all of my postings, and start a debate? I am not Alex, and he nor I was at the Ballance national this past week end. Why are you again, singeling me out to *****, come on Shawn you can not keep blaming me for your short commings. What is the source of all of this anger? please tell us why you are again blaming me for your problems. anger? I dont get angry lmao...

Dont worry, I'll be at VA entering the same classes, and hopefully qualifying for the same classes. I will enter A class when I feel comfortable racing at that level..and not a moment sooner. Its like your little stunt never even happened :)

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by Warnerade
anger? I dont get angry lmao...

Dont worry, I'll be at VA entering the same classes, and hopefully qualifying for the same classes. I will enter A class when I feel comfortable racing at that level..and not a moment sooner. Its like your little stunt never even happened :)

Can you clear all that up? That inside thing is like speaking French. How was Ballance's anyway? Wanted to go but for some reason, several races overlap with other series this year.

[national #9]

hi shawn, what stunt are you referring to? please let me know, I am very offended by your accuzations, that "I" did somthing wrong. what happened to you this weekend? please let everyone know.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by national #9
hi shawn, what stunt are you referring to? please let me know, I am very offended by your accuzations, that "I" did somthing wrong. what happened to you this weekend? please let everyone know. nvm...i'll edit my post and take out your stunt because your just not worth it...

See you in VA.

dont forget, the people you talked to about me racing A class in the past...it turns out, they like me better than you :)

[MX MaNiAc 06]

How did your wrist feel over the weekend? It's definately a bone you have to milk during the healing process. You're lucky it healed as fast as it did!

[national #9]

hi Shawn, I am sorry to say, it wasn't me, If you check alot of riders in your cp class were being dqed by a group of angry parents that spend a ton of money to get their kids into the proper classes. Sorry,I can't take credit for that one.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by MX MaNiAc 06
How did your wrist feel over the weekend? It's definately a bone you have to milk during the healing process. You're lucky it healed as fast as it did! healed as fast as it did!?!? I broke the bone april 27th last year and spent almost 7 months in a cast haha. It still hurts a little bit, but I wear a brace when I ride and I can barely feel anything when I got it on. I am going to have surgery on it this up coming winter because I dont have full range of motion and if I bend it certain directions I do have a little pain. I honestly dont feel like dealing with that the rest of my life lol

[national #9]

This was supposed to be a post, that some of the national parents including myself expressed concern with, not a battle between myself and, some kid that got caught cheating. please continue to post your info, and maybe someday we can come up with a solution.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by national #9
This was supposed to be a post, that some of the national parents including myself expressed concern with, not a battle between myself and, some kid that got caught cheating. please continue to post your info, and maybe someday we can come up with a solution. who was cheating? Everything I did was withing the AMA rules...its already taken care of, your attempt to protest me was over-ruled. Seriously alex...or whoever you "say" you are...drop it, its getting really old.

[national #9]

sorry shawn, look to the riders in the b class, they don't want an A rider in their class. again, sorry it wasn't me.

[elementryder]

Originally posted by national #9
sorry shawn, look to the riders in the b class, they don't want an A rider in their class. again, sorry it wasn't me.

hey look, i dont really mind if an A-class rider races B, i mean if thats what it takes to make them feel good than let them go for it

[extremeblastr]

ok how about we stop the bickering and look at 3 very important points.

1) there are very few local and regional series on the level of organizations like neatv where you can ride the same class at the nationals and not feel like the world is trying to run you out of the sport. there are series out there where a "pro" rider would get lapped in c class at the nats so you guys need to get past class dropping now. the only series' that exist with the kind of speed to run the same class at the nats have rules in place that either call for a suspension, point deduction or loss of all accumulated points.

2) alex trompen is a raging homo

3) you can't tell people who are nursing a healing injury they can't race. if they aren't fully healed and at 100% let them run a lower class and get back to speed without causing further injury.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by elementryder
hey look, i dont really mind if an A-class rider races B, i mean if thats what it takes to make them feel good than let them go for it hell, honestly I'm flattered that a self proclaimed pro rider is saying I'm an A rider, apperantly he sees something in me.

[JJs450r]

hey shawn when was the last time you raced ama since your broken wrist? other than the two nats? isnt there some kinda time period of not racing to where your aloud to drop a class? i think its in the rule could be wrong though

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by JJs450r
hey shawn when was the last time you raced ama since your broken wrist? other than the two nats? isnt there some kinda time period of not racing to where your aloud to drop a class? i think its in the rule could be wrong though thats exactly my point. I broke my wrist april 27th 2008. I raced A class on the 26th and the 27th. I finished the race with my wrist hurt and ended up getting the overall out of luck. I entered 2 mroe races in the A class but, I only went because I missed riding and all my friends at the track and just went to screw around. As my results show, getting last and second to last for those 2 races. I already emailed sherri at atvmotocross.com and talked to my district rep. Its settled, I am not foreced to race A at nationals if I dont feel comfortable with it. I did not break any rules, by AMA rules and regulations, I am a B rider.

I raced B class at ballance Last year the weekend before I broke my wrist...and honestly, I felt 10x faster on the track last year than I did this year. taking a year off sucks.

[JJs450r]

ya i figured you had to talk with the rep and ama about it cool you got it worked out i may be racing with ya at birch in a couple weeks not positive if i wanan make the jump or not

[MX MaNiAc 06]

Originally posted by Warnerade
healed as fast as it did!?!? I broke the bone april 27th last year and spent almost 7 months in a cast haha. It still hurts a little bit, but I wear a brace when I ride and I can barely feel anything when I got it on. I am going to have surgery on it this up coming winter because I dont have full range of motion and if I bend it certain directions I do have a little pain. I honestly dont feel like dealing with that the rest of my life lol

That's still quick. Maybe not quick for your age but compared to most ppl. It will bother you the rest of your life but within a year you will be used to putting up with the pain. I rode for 20 minutes yesterday and I've been limping all day. It sucks but you learn to put up with it. I saw a middle aged man with your injury that didn't seem to recover any in the three months of therapy that I saw.

[Wills77]

Originally posted by MX MaNiAc 06
That's still quick. Maybe not quick for your age but compared to most ppl. It will bother you the rest of your life but within a year you will be used to putting up with the pain. I rode for 20 minutes yesterday and I've been limping all day. It sucks but you learn to put up with it. I saw a middle aged man with your injury that didn't seem to recover any in the three months of therapy that I saw.

i still feel many things that ive broken years ago... but talking about wrists... i broke mine when i was 15...didnt give it time to heal, rode with the cast on, raced the day after i got it off and 3 years later it still bothers me wether im riding or doing certain things at the gym

[SRH]

this will change as the ama gets more involved, when quads werent popular all the serious racers only ran nationals, they got really really really fast so the abc and pro were like expert at the local level for just the c class...so then as people got into it theyd go there and the competition was 100x's what theyd seen locally and everyone would drop a class so they wouldnt waste there entry money , yeah competition is good but not when you cant even see the guy in front of you....so now that the local levels have caught up with the national levels it needs to change, ive done it, i raced b class locally and finished the same in the nantional c class as i did local b..... yeah the class changed but the competition was the same....i feel no shame lol
so yeah nowadays its not necessary but 3-5 years ago...yeahhh! now ive seen a riders run the c class and just kill everyone....but what are you going to do, give it another season or two and they will have it square away, youd never get caught before because you had different organizations governing the nationals and local levels , once this is squared away the level of professionalism and quality of riders will just keep getting better

[SRH]

id also like to add, the majority of guys who drop a class dont do so to score prizes, its the running talk on any local level, drop a class for the nationals, ive even heard people tell people c or novice local riders were not allowed at nationals....so its all rumors that cause it, and yes im sure there are cheaters but there not progressing, and sooner or later the guys finsihing behind them will end up beating them..... if your gonna be pro your gonna be pro, why take a fun weekend and turn it into stressful protests and bickering over someone stealing the 12 dollar plaque...there not gaining expirience that you are chasing them down, there are people watching, to see who is unfairly placed, these families who invest a million dollars in equipment and haulers and what not are a joke, i always felt like there kids sucked on the track and they just caused problems for everyone else when they got beat, poor sports....there is no big$$ or fame being a pro atv racer yet

[MX MaNiAc 06]

Originally posted by Wills77
i still feel many things that ive broken years ago... but talking about wrists... i broke mine when i was 15...didnt give it time to heal, rode with the cast on, raced the day after i got it off and 3 years later it still bothers me wether im riding or doing certain things at the gym

Same here man. When i was 16 i thought it would be cool to cut my cast off 3 days after i got it cuz the break wasnt severe. I walked two blocks in cold rain the other day and couldnt move my wrist for an hour. Wrists arent something to f*ck with.

And on the real topic, Trompen you aren't gonna keep up in the pro ams by bashing other riders. Go out and practice.

[Blizzard24]

I'm sorry but those of you who are dopping classes are the ones that are justifying why you do it, Warnerade petitioned his rep so he went about it the right way and probably presented some good reasons why he should.

For anyone who just feels this is an acceptable unwritten rule, you are only fooling yourself, yes it is common practice, no it isnt right.

If you come to a stop sign at night with no one on the road, you still stop, why? Because its a rule that you agree to follow when you apply for your drivers license.

When you sign up for your AMA/ATVA Competition card you are agreeing to follow their rules as well, and the rule is you race in the same class at all events. The system isnt perfect with class advances from local series, but it is still a rule we all need to follow. If we dont, we end up w A or Pro Am locals racing C class Nationals... is it fair to the local C Class rider that would like to run Nationals? Is it even safe for a local C class rider to be on the track with these people that are hitting jumps that a C class rider may be rolling?

If you are justifying breaking the rule it is because you are the person breaking the rule.

What class does the C Class rider get to Sandbag? Oh wait he doesnt have that option so he just has to get run off the track by the people not following the same rules he is forced to follow since there is no class for him to Sandbag.

[national #9]

Originally posted by MX MaNiAc 06


And on the real topic, Trompen you aren't gonna keep up in the pro ams by bashing other riders. Go out and practice. I am sorry, but shawn keeps blaming alex for this post, like i have said, i am not him, and I didn't even bring up shawns name in my post. He searches out all of my posts to start an argument, because HE seems to have a grudge against Alex for some reason. If you look back at all of the posts, I never even mentioned his name, until he posted first. I am simply trying to find a solution to a big problem at the national level, where people, that are chasing points, and spending their paycheck every other week in hopes of racing other riders that are riding in their proper class, not some rider that races A class for money at home, and only can feed their ego's by cheating in the lower classes. I also think that if a rider is to injured to ride their proper class, and feels they might be a danger to other riders should stay home until they are fit to ride their normal class, what makes them think by dropping down to a lower class makes them any less of a danger to the other riders.

[OutlawEX]

I think the bigger issue is racers entering a class over their head and causing a hazard on the track. From what i seen this weekend was no one checking out in any class.

But like 95 percent of the nationals I see more kids entering a class over their head and making bigger issues of lack of experience vs Entering a class that they need to move up in. Thats the real issue.

[Warnerade]

is this what it feels like to be tromp-stomped?

http://www.atvriders.com/gallery/2007atvamx02glenhelenpropractice/images/KE2F3557.jpg

I sure wish I could just lock this thread...