Help Me With a Decision

[Seed]

Hey guys im in a delema here and I want you guys to steer me in the right direction. Ive been really kicking around about buy the new 09 ds450mx. I owned a 2006 yfz 450 about a year ago and got an offer for it i could refuse. So i sold it. It was a nice quad but had its draw backs such as i was always worried about the oiling which i never had a rpoblem with and the notorious thoumb cramp. Also the infamous bog which is fixed easily. But back to the subject. Ive really been looking at getting another quad and these guys caught my eye. I want the widness and the efi. But i want you guys to help me in my decision. I dont want something i have to pump alot of money into to get it where i want. I'll be mostly trail rdiing and hill climbing and hitting some nasty jumps. So I want something i know is going to hold up. Also of course we all want performance cause we all like bragging rights when we beat a buddy in a drag race. Hmm then it turns into the battle of the Jones's lol. So can you guys help me make my decision. I'd appreciate it very very much.

[ProspectorJim]

Id go for the x xc depending on how wide your trails are. The most you'll need to put into it is a pipe, airfilter and an ecm depending on which pipe.

[Seed]

The Trails are plenty wide and the way i ride i need all the stability i can get. So I'm gonna stick with the 50 inch width its just my perference. But ive heard the 08s were having alot of trouble and was wondering how the new 09 are doing as far as bugs and such. Im not familiar with can-am very much. From what i do hear though their customer service is very good or am i wrong?

[THEMACHINIST]

To be honest you should wait before buying a can am 450 it's not a bad one but still need a lot improvement.I own one and if i add the choice i would buy a ktm 505 who is maybe more expensive but you will have way less problem with it.plus for what you are doing it will be perfect, just put a slip on and you got a super fast atv with all the after marquet you want.it's maybe carburated but for what you are doing you wont have to change your jet.
I'm not saying can am is not good,don't get me wrong but brp need to do some improvement if they want to be on the top.

just my 2 cents:)

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by THEMACHINIST
To be honest you should wait before buying a can am 450 it's not a bad one but still need a lot improvement.I own one and if i add the choice i would buy a ktm 505 who is maybe more expensive but you will have way less problem with it.plus for what you are doing it will be perfect, just put a slip on and you got a super fast atv with all the after marquet you want.it's maybe carburated but for what you are doing you wont have to change your jet.
I'm not saying can am is not good,don't get me wrong but brp need to do some improvement if they want to be on the top.

just my 2 cents:)

The ktm 505 is for mx racing. Taking it and only using it for trails is like taking a thorough bred race horse and using it to give kids pony rides. The maintenance alone would not be worth it.

I keep hearing about all these problems with the ds but no one is citing examples. What problems are there that haven't been fixed with the 09 model? There are none that I can think of.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ProspectorJim


I keep hearing about all these problems with the ds but no one is citing examples. What problems are there that haven't been fixed with the 09 model? There are none that I can think of.

Hilarious isn't it?

I own a 09MX awesome quad! :D

[Seed]

Yes, I would like to see prime examples of problems, i know all quads have there draw backs just like a vehicle you buy from ford or chevy. I just want to make the best possible decision before buying. So i would like to here about the problems that the 09's are having not what the 08's had problems with. And also like to here the pros about the 09's. Im sorry if im kinda acting like a newb but i really dont know much about the can-ams. Im going to stay away from KTM all togeather. Because this price is out rageous and the aftermarket is not very good and i've heard parts for them are not the cheapest either. And if i were to spend 11k on a quad i might as well buy a used quad rip it completely down and do a complete build of every component i want on it. such as what a-arm and shocks i would run.

[hotshotgoal30]

my 08 had a coolant leak. other than that just 2 recalls fixed on their expense. no other problems

[TNT]

The biggest drawback on the 09 DS is the head. The valve train is heavy and unless you got the money to go titanium a little difficult to deal with. Ports are large too but both of these can be over come with the right mods. I decided not to put money into the valves since these particular ones are not as reliable as the say the Honda for the same size or weight. The way these valves seat are an issue for TI. I did however find a way to over come the valve train issues with reliable power I believe, time will tell. I should have some dyno results in the next two weeks watch this site.

The frame and arm designs are outstanding, extruded pyramid and rectangular aluminum cross sections fastened together by permanent huck bolts offer great strength-to-weight more so than any frame on the market. The arm geometry is well designed for max ground clearance and shock placement strategically positioned to maximize arm life.

The CG and mass center has good centralization giving the quad good handling characteristics most agree.

The EFI design is similar to the rest on the market. EFI technology on quads is a must for maintaining a stochimetric mixture at all times and the future, unlike carbs. This technology is developing as seen with the PC5 that adds a 02 sensor keeping the quad at optimum fuel/air on the track…... I like to refer to it as a constant dyno tune as you ride. The pressurized fuel can become an issue in hot weather but dealt with my heat tape or CV now offers a boot for the fuel tank.

As was already stated the two biggest stock issues in 08 for the average rider were the clutch and fly wheel bolts. Not that they were an issue for everyone but it seems to be resolved in 09 so far.

The Race teams offers other parts to solve some of the other issues such as the radiator packing up with mud, louvers, brp put it's radiator up front good for cooling but something to contend with if you run in muddy conditions often. They offer a series of other protective preventative maintenance products you get through your dealer if you qualify for racing support from the Warnert Race team. I think I heard they will transfer to the 2010 stock models. Don't quote me there.

Like any quad that you push it to the limits there will be "issues" if you want to call them that, but for the average rec rider or racer the upgrades I mentioned above are not a concern and the DS 450 a good all around quad for the money.

[joeyds450x]

idk bout anybody else but my fuel injection went out on my 08, i know that its a first year bike but its a little fustrating when your paying for a quad that sits at the dealers shop all the time! i mean like theyve were designing this bike since 2001, a guy would think that 7 years in the making they wouldnt have this many problems, you would think that they would have cought the clutch problems... in my opinion that is the worst part of this quad!! o ya dont lose your keys either ignition systems are expensive!!

[crixal]

ya, i wish i had an ltr, but i'll make the best of what i have for now.

[Seed]

Originally posted by TNT1
The biggest drawback on the 09 DS is the head. The valve train is heavy and unless you got the money to go titanium a little difficult to deal with. Ports are large too but both of these can be over come with the right mods. I decided not to put money into the valves since these particular ones are not as reliable as the say the Honda for the same size or weight. The way these valves seat are an issue for TI. I did however find a way to over come the valve train issues with reliable power I believe, time will tell. I should have some dyno results in the next two weeks watch this site.

The frame and arm designs are outstanding, extruded pyramid and rectangular aluminum cross sections fastened together by permanent huck bolts offer great strength-to-weight more so than any frame on the market. The arm geometry is well designed for max ground clearance and shock placement strategically positioned to maximize arm life.

The CG and mass center has good centralization giving the quad good handling characteristics most agree.

The EFI design is similar to the rest on the market. EFI technology on quads is a must for maintaining a stochimetric mixture at all times and the future, unlike carbs. This technology is developing as seen with the PC5 that adds a 02 sensor keeping the quad at optimum fuel/air on the track…... I like to refer to it as a constant dyno tune as you ride. The pressurized fuel can become an issue in hot weather but dealt with my heat tape or CV now offers a boot for the fuel tank.

As was already stated the two biggest stock issues in 08 for the average rider were the clutch and fly wheel bolts. Not that they were an issue for everyone but it seems to be resolved in 09 so far.

The Race teams offers other parts to solve some of the other issues such as the radiator packing up with mud, louvers, brp put it's radiator up front good for cooling but something to contend with if you run in muddy conditions often. They offer a series of other protective preventative maintenance products you get through your dealer if you qualify for racing support from the Warnert Race team. I think I heard they will transfer to the 2010 stock models. Don't quote me there.

Like any quad that you push it to the limits there will be "issues" if you want to call them that, but for the average rec rider or racer the upgrades I mentioned above are not a concern and the DS 450 a good all around quad for the money.

Well I dont race just have fun with freinds mostly. The only mods i plan on doing is exhaust, intake, pc 5, and maybe cams, but thats about it and i want a very reliable smooth quad. And handling and feel is prolly my biggest thing, so i will be putting fox shocks, a-arms, flex bars, and a steering stabilizer. But i want to be confident with my purchase. I know can-am is not as big as you would say like yamaha. Do you guys think that can-am will last or do you think it will die out and then im stuck with a quad i cant get parts for.

[Seed]

Originally posted by Seed
Well I dont race just have fun with freinds mostly. The only mods i plan on doing is exhaust, intake, pc 5, and maybe cams, but thats about it and i want a very reliable smooth quad. And handling and feel is prolly my biggest thing, so i will be putting fox shocks, a-arms, flex bars, and a steering stabilizer. But i want to be confident with my purchase. I know can-am is not as big as you would say like yamaha. Do you guys think that can-am will last or do you think it will die out and then im stuck with a quad i cant get parts for.

Whoops Wrong button Tryed to edit LOL!!!

[crixal]

i would go w/ your second choice. i like my ds, but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by Seed
Well I dont race just have fun with freinds mostly. The only mods i plan on doing is exhaust, intake, pc 5, and maybe cams, but thats about it and i want a very reliable smooth quad. And handling and feel is prolly my biggest thing, so i will be putting fox shocks, a-arms, flex bars, and a steering stabilizer. But i want to be confident with my purchase. I know can-am is not as big as you would say like yamaha. Do you guys think that can-am will last or do you think it will die out and then im stuck with a quad i cant get parts for.

I'd go for the ds. With the stuff your going to add , it will make up for any lack of power. The power delivery is very smooth on the ds and the handling is even smoother. I think can-am is in the sport to stay, but only time will tell.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Seed
Well I dont race just have fun with freinds mostly. The only mods i plan on doing is exhaust, intake, pc 5, and maybe cams, but thats about it and i want a very reliable smooth quad. And handling and feel is prolly my biggest thing, so i will be putting fox shocks, a-arms, flex bars, and a steering stabilizer. But i want to be confident with my purchase. I know can-am is not as big as you would say like yamaha. Do you guys think that can-am will last or do you think it will die out and then im stuck with a quad i cant get parts for.

I wouldn't get an opinion from the majority of people that own 08's on this site or a pro lol.....) 08 was the first year and I can tell you as a first year owner of a YFZ450, I can't stand that quad, we have a new one in our shop and we cant get alot of power out of it....We need an after market ignition to get more revs that no one makes to get more than 48hp with the 5 mods. Past five years I seen it all from 04 seen problems with them all, the can-am has its share last year and we don't know enough this year to be honest. The pro's that run them hard are struggling, but that is of little concern to most. If you do the mods you mentioned and don't run hard like A-Class or Pro-AM nationals you will have a unique well put together 09.....Look at ML450r he runs it dang hard and it's holding up....PM him for his assessment, he's a very experience racer and good info source. Blizzard too, both older guys than most been around a while......Few other 09 owners you can ask. Blizzard owns a 08 but you can tell he's really on top of it and he's happy.

I'll have my 09 together with more mods than most and will start running soon and can give more input. Ill have some dyno results and impressive pics soon, week or so then some test riding info to offer....BRP is offering some good discounts you may qualify for.

Actually were racing a huge arenax this weekend on a YFZ450 bummer since the DS is almost done.

BTW I get 09 parts fast just depends on the dealer. Some parts have been on back order but come off in no more than a week.

[Blizzard24]

No complaints w my 08, I had my first race on it in the first rnd of AMA National Harescramble series, From a dead engine start took the holeshot. The race took place in a monsoon (4 inches of rain in 6 hrs), and the quad ran perfect even in 2 feet of water during the last lap.

No lid, full exhaust, pink wire mod. Oh and it was on stock suspension... amazing handling and plenty of power.
http://www.thequadbuilder.net/forums/uploads/1238375772/gallery_266_34465.jpg

[joeyds450x]

Originally posted by Seed
Well I dont race just have fun with freinds mostly. The only mods i plan on doing is exhaust, intake, pc 5, and maybe cams, but thats about it and i want a very reliable smooth quad. And handling and feel is prolly my biggest thing, so i will be putting fox shocks, a-arms, flex bars, and a steering stabilizer. But i want to be confident with my purchase. I know can-am is not as big as you would say like yamaha. Do you guys think that can-am will last or do you think it will die out and then im stuck with a quad i cant get parts for.

i race one maybe twice a year but otherwise i do exactly wut you do just try and out jump all my friends but even doing this im still having problems with the clutch, brakes, bent axle, bolts on the sproket loosen up and sprocket shatterd when i landed a jump, overheating anytime i go near mud, bent carrier, and the recalls it had... and o ya dont forget about the efi going out! hopefully ill get it back before the months end because im getting really tired of paying for a quad that i cant even ride :mad: if i were you id go with the ltr...thats wut i was going to get but i wanted something different and now im paying the consequence for buying a first year bike!

[Seed]

Well thats the thing. I'm not going with the 08. I know alot of changes occured for the 09's and from what ive been seeing not really much is going wrong with the 09's. For sure things were going to be wrong with the 08's its was a first crack into the sport for can-am. It's almost expected for things to have buggs that need to be worked out. What can you guys say about customer service from can-am. I know with all the other companys if something goes wrongs that happens on all quads they still will not take care of you. It comes out of your pocket to fix a problem that ill likely happen again. How is Can-am when is comes to these typ of situations?

[THEMACHINIST]

Originally posted by joeyds450x
idk bout anybody else but my fuel injection went out on my 08, i know that its a first year bike but its a little fustrating when your paying for a quad that sits at the dealers shop all the time! i mean like theyve were designing this bike since 2001, a guy would think that 7 years in the making they wouldnt have this many problems, you would think that they would have cought the clutch problems... in my opinion that is the worst part of this quad!! o ya dont lose your keys either ignition systems are expensive!!

I agree and i had some trouble with gaz who boiling, limp mode and after a 3h race my rear break was gone,i'm just a amateur racer, i cant belive the pro who tested the quad never had thoses problem before they put this machine on the marquet, BUt when everything is fix (ou la la) this quad rip:macho

[TNT]

Originally posted by Seed
Well thats the thing. I'm not going with the 08. I know alot of changes occured for the 09's and from what ive been seeing not really much is going wrong with the 09's. For sure things were going to be wrong with the 08's its was a first crack into the sport for can-am. It's almost expected for things to have buggs that need to be worked out. What can you guys say about customer service from can-am. I know with all the other companys if something goes wrongs that happens on all quads they still will not take care of you. It comes out of your pocket to fix a problem that ill likely happen again. How is Can-am when is comes to these typ of situations?

Its amazing the varying opinions on the same 08 quads isn't it. You'll find that on any quad. We have two running the 09 here where I live. My son who’s a local pro and another b-class racer who within 2-weeks of owning a 09 burnt his clutch plates since he didn't keep the lever adjusted properly nor did the scheduled oil change, and who knows how he rides it wrong. My son however had ours for 30 days and we still have lots of clutch left but we perform our maintenance and know how to ride for clutch life. Now let me ask you how can you take two racers like this and get different results on the same quad. Point is there are a lot of variables that contribute to the reliability of any quad all the way from the lowest amateur to the fastest pro.

Your doing the right thing but just focusing on experience racers that have been around the sport a while like Blizzard(XC) and ML450r(MX) , not to offend anyone, I don't know the rest very well, age and experience. You won't run the quad near as hard as they do so there should be plenty of reliability there for you. I really think the intent of this quad was geared at the A-Class racer, any more as you can see by the pro's is pushing the quad too far. It's a good quad for the beginner to advanced racer that needs more R&D for the 09-10 national pro, or a better race team.

LTR has its issues too we cycle many through my buddies shop, they all do, don't be fooled go on there section and you will see.

Customer service will be like any depends on the dealer and racer. Like most the minute you race this quad voids the warrantee. Take the example above the guy that burnt is clutch by his own doing was mad it was not covered by warrantee and he spread a bunch of bad news around town. I’m sure there are many more stories like this on the internet, not accusing anyone don’t take me wrong. The customer service I have received is outstanding, it alone I doubt I regret my purchase this season. I can give you our dealer for parts if you get one.

We ran the 09 stock for about a month hard, it held up well as I stated even the clutch. We got a lot of mods now and are pushing hard but in a different way than the pro’s so we shall see.

If you decide to get one make sure the clutch has the update, we’re finding some 09’s that don’t. There’s a 2009-9 Clutch thread that gives you engine number.

Good luck with your decision. If you got time as I said we should have more info on ours within the next two weeks. New PEP shocks will be here tomorrow, quad should rip!

[hotshotgoal30]

i dont know about everyone else but i worked at a can-am dealership and they do take care of you way better than most companies. iv owned polaris and yamaha and have not recieved the same attention that can-am has given to me and many other customers that brought their quads into our dealership. and many have said the same thing. when i waited almost a month to get my parts for the recalls for some reason they forgot to include some bolts in the kit. can-am overnighted them to my dealership at their cost. i know its something small but it made me "the customer" happy that they would do that instead of sending it snail mail. my dealership is kinda clueless when it comes to the DS but that is because they havnt sold many. but as far as customer service from can-am i am satisfied. they also agreed to pay for my 08 clutch bulletin parts which obviously they didnt have to because it was a bulletin.

[hotshotgoal30]

and i dont mean to moch the ltr because they are just as equally a great quad. but go over to that forum. the first 5 or 6 threads are all people having problems. not starting, gear problems, not running. and yeah the DS forums have their fair share of problems too so it just goes to show that either way neither is bullet proof

[Foxstar45]

Originally posted by Seed
Well thats the thing. I'm not going with the 08. I know alot of changes occured for the 09's and from what ive been seeing not really much is going wrong with the 09's. For sure things were going to be wrong with the 08's its was a first crack into the sport for can-am. It's almost expected for things to have buggs that need to be worked out. What can you guys say about customer service from can-am. I know with all the other companys if something goes wrongs that happens on all quads they still will not take care of you. It comes out of your pocket to fix a problem that ill likely happen again. How is Can-am when is comes to these typ of situations?

It's tough getting proper answers to your questions on a forum isn't it? Not everyone seems to be fully reading your posts about not wanting to know things about the '08 that you already know and aren't going to buy.
The 2009 is going to be a great quad but it's going to be hard getting info on them because they haven't been out very long and most dealers are still pushing leftover '08s and many have not even ordered '09s.
As far as i'm concerned the bugs have been worked out of the quad for the 2nd year (and first year for that matter)
Clutch noise - Fixed/fixable
power - Pipe/intake Fixed
gas boiling - caused by aftermaket pipes and again, fixable
Motor mounts/flywheel bolts - there is a bulitin for that, Fixed
I'm forgetting a few but you get the picture.

The frame that everyone was afraid of last year and the year before that.. well you don't here anything about that anymore so I guess it wasn't an issue.
Customer service - Brp doen't have a bullin out for the clutch noise but if you talk to your dealer nice they will fix it for you at minimal charge. I know you won't need this on your new MX i'm just giving you an example of great custy service.
If you ride trails lots I would recommend getting a set of XC tires for it. Some people will question why you would buy an MX quad to turn it into a XC quad but I like the idea of 50'' wide for that type of riding it just needs a bit more clearance and you may like the higher gearing as well.

Get the Can Am.... you'll love it!

[dustin_j]

Seed, where in Iowa do you ride? I usually go to Waterloo. I'd love to see a DSMX in person as I haven't seen anyone who's riding one yet. They do look like a sweet machine.

Dustin

[kellymi]

So far I really like my 09. Granted all the ride time I have on it is three days of hard riding in the sand. The main thing I really like about it is that it is really easy to be comfortable on it, and its light.

I have my first Iowa hair scramble race coming up at the end of April. I am making the jump from c to b this year because I feel so comfortable on it already. I am really looking forward to it. The only problem I've had so far is the flag mount tab broke off.

I don't think you can go wrong with an 09.

[Seed]

Originally posted by dustin_j
Seed, where in Iowa do you ride? I usually go to Waterloo. I'd love to see a DSMX in person as I haven't seen anyone who's riding one yet. They do look like a sweet machine.

Dustin

I ride on the west side of iowa close to Sioux City we also make trips to Omaha, Ne and Columbus, Ne. We go permission to ride on the Indian reservation over here to. which i must say has great trails and hills to jump and climb ;). So its quite the jont from waterloo. But im sure well make a trip that way some time and when i do ill send you a pm. Thats if i decide on getting one. Which is looking very likely. I may wait to see what kinda numbers and reliability tnt comes up with. One thing im wondering is ive heard alot of people have had the gas boil due to aftermarket exhaust. What measures need to be done to prevent this from happening. Last thing i want to do is have that happen which is really not good for the quad at all.

[Blizzard24]

To help the gas boiling issue, just go to the automotive store and get heat tape and cover the bottom of the gas tank.
CV4 is in the process of making a boot to lay the gas tank in but TNT can give you a better idea about that.

You can also drill 1" holes under the front fenders to get the air moving around the tank. This can be seen on some of the pro's bikes.

[Seed]

I definitley will be talking to tnt about this Diaper lol just giving you a hard time tnt. I would be very interested in this mod when ever they release this boot for the tank. I have another question is if the pink wire mod is available on the 09 models I havnt found any where if it is. Can you guy clear this up for me.

[crixal]

ya, 09 has the pink wire.

[TNT]

Originally posted by crixal
ya, 09 has the pink wire.

Don't listen to diaper boy Crix, 09 it's more a MANgenta MACHO color than 08 girlie panty pink....JK! :D

[Seed]

Is the MANgenta mod going to be necessary in my case. i plan on putting a pc5 on the can-am. Will this be sufficent or should i do the pink wire mod and put the pc5 on it also. Or will it not make any performance difference.

[TNT]

Actually CV called yesterday wondering how the boot was doing. I told them we had not installed it yet call me back in a week.

Soon as we give them the word production will commence.

Good thing more products for us! `:D

[TNT]

Originally posted by Seed
Is the MANgenta mod going to be necessary in my case. i plan on putting a pc5 on the can-am. Will this be sufficent or should i do the pink wire mod and put the pc5 on it also. Or will it not make any performance difference.

Its hard to say.. If you run hard in high humidity and heat you may need it, other wise maybe the holes Blizzard mentiion will do the trick....you can run some test and see, you boil fuel your perfermance goes down hill very obvious, you will know in a New York Minute! :D

[TNT]

Oh rest of question hard to say too...depends of where you live, humiity, density, altitude.....Magenta may work BUT nothing like PC5..No matter what altitude, no PC needed to down load maps, your good w/pc5, State Of The Art auto tune but $600.

[TNT]

Sorry not sure if I am answered youz questions...you got understand mangenta is a factory MAP, PC3-5 much much, more!!! 3- 10% Tuning on a dyno, 5 5% increments for more accuracy. You'll never get what PC 3- or 5 has to offer by mangenta cut...Ill explain more tommorrow too tired tonight. :tired:

Night every ones. :D

[crixal]

pink, red, black, magenta, what ever color it is.. it's the same thing?

[TNT]

Originally posted by crixal
pink, red, black, magenta, what ever color it is.. it's the same thing?

NO! 08 pink Girl

09 MANGENTA!! MAN!!!

THERES A DIFFERENCE YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT!!!
:D

JK! :macho

[crixal]

i completely understand now. thanks for clearing that up.

[ProConcept]

Originally posted by TNT1
Actually CV called yesterday wondering how the boot was doing. I told them we had not installed it yet call me back in a week.

Soon as we give them the word production will commence.

Good thing more products for us! `:D
Get on that ****, I called them today and they didn't know when it would be ready (probably because of you!) lol. The hoses are back ordered for weeks also. I got a race coming up soon, I need my bike in top shape now.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ProConcept
Get on that ****, I called them today and they didn't know when it would be ready (probably because of you!) lol. The hoses are back ordered for weeks also. I got a race coming up soon, I need my bike in top shape now.

lol....it's not me it's my son and his girlfreind but good ol dad is whipping him to get it done!

You do know those hoses do nothing for cooling just last longer. Look purdy too! :D

[Seed]

Well, I've been making some phone calls and i found a place here in Iowa selling a 09 Can-AM DS450X MX for $8400. What do you guys think. Omaha wanted 9k and they wouldnt budge. I'm like Im going to pay cash for this. They are like still firm on 9k. Im like ok well I'll look some where else lol. Also hurry up TNT and get that beast done. I need numbers before I buy ;).

[TNT]

Just cuz your the man I can save you $900 on one all you got to do is drive to Wichita, KS...not far really. My dealer will sell it to you for $8100 and you don't pay $600 in tax out of state. So you'd pay $7500.

Give em a call.....Nathan at Marine World, 316-265-2628. Sign up for the race program and save even more.

My numbers will just tell ya if I got the power I was hoping for, after that it will take a while to see if the quad holds together. I think what ML450r has done is a better indication for you, simular mods and he runs a mean A-Class race at the nations by the sounds of it much more than what you will do with it.

[TNT]

Our motors on the bench finally being assembled, got everything in. Head almost done, new Fuel Custom intake pretty cool..another new product for the DS...as soon as we fit the protoype with the bigger of the two K&N's they sent I'll take some pics....S/b together in a week w/ dyno results.

Speaking of heads we cracked our YAM head, my buddy never seen this in 25 years of building motors. Go figure YFZr!
:rolleyes:

Seed if you decide to come down the yellow brick Road to Kansas and get one, next weekend we will probably race this quad at an huge indoor arena cross w/the Monster Trucks......you could check er out and take home your new DS....:D

This thang may be too powerful a arenax, I tell my boy throttle control same type he doesn't have around women! :macho

[Seed]

WOW he cracked the head in a yfz 450r . Last time i heard they aupposidly beefed up the head in the new yfz450r to accomidate for higher horsepower that racers would be running. Hmmmm what did he all have done to the yfz450r? Who knows i may make a trip down, Have to just wait and see :). If i do i just might have to look you up. Can you give me a full address to your dealer so I can google earth it and see how long of a drive it would be for me.

[TNT]

We cracked a 05.....:eek2:

[crixal]

fci.. i want one.

[ProConcept]

Originally posted by TNT1
lol....it's not me it's my son and his girlfreind but good ol dad is whipping him to get it done!

You do know those hoses do nothing for cooling just last longer. Look purdy too! :D
I know they don't do anything for cooling, but ill be damned if I have to waste my engine ice filling a system with stock hoses that will later be changed. You running the bigger throttle body? Whats the fci intake have over something like the Rossier setup?

[TNT]

Originally posted by ProConcept
I know they don't do anything for cooling, but ill be damned if I have to waste my engine ice filling a system with stock hoses that will later be changed. You running the bigger throttle body? Whats the fci intake have over something like the Rossier setup?

We run CV4 on our YAM there good hoses but expensive!

FCI gets rid of all the rubber between the TB and filter Rossier doesn't(got Rossier exhaust btw). Big filter is great but if you throw big air into a hot rubber turbulant flexable intake boot it does less good. FCI is a hard molded plastic that has a shape to increase pressure to the combusion chamber. This intake is better than the sheet metal one the race team is currently offering to approved am's. Sheet metal is kinda hard to form into compund curves unless you got the tooling which is expensive. We going to run the biggest K&N we can get in the box.

We bored up the TB to 50mm and made a new valve.

[Seed]

I contacted ML450r also known as Merrill about the 09 DS450X MX. So I figured I'd pass on his thoughts to you guys.



Re: Hey

quote:
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Seed wrote on 04-10-2009 10:03 PM:
Hey Ml450r,

I am in the process of buy a 09 Can-Am 450x Mx. And I've been asking some question on it, and i was told to come to you for answers. Can I get your thoughts on the Can-Am as far as reliability and performance. I'm mostly going to be running trails and mx tracks, but I wont be racing just having fun with freinds. I plan to do the folowing mods to it. Exhaust (If you can recommend one I'd appreciate it), Intake (Also can you recommend one), Pc5, and maybe cams. Also how well is the frame holding up? Also can you possibly give me some possible numbers as far as torque and horspower I might be hitting? Also if you can fill me in on any little tricks and maybe somethings you love and hate about the bike. Hope to hear back from you.

Thanks,
Kevin
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I am very impressed with the Can am 450mx. I have had mine about a month. I have had no problems yet. I have raced one local race, Pell City, and Ballance. After Pell City, I had a heavier rear spring put on it(I weigh 210 in gear)and I had Rossier port the head, put in a piston and cams. I had it dynoed yesterday, It made 48 hp and 32 lbs of torque, I will post the graph later on th forums. I would recommend a Rossier pipe or Motoworks. I would not worry about the warranty issue, Bombardier has been around for quite sometime. I believe they will stand behind the atv as well as Honda or Suzuki or any others. I think the mx frame will work great. The Mx model comes with gussets already installed. The axle in the mx is the one the pros are running. The bike is by far the most advanced race ready bikes on the markey. The KTM is a really good bike also, just cost more money.

I like most everything about the bike, the one thing I don't like is the front end feels heavy to me...this is also based on my weight. I adjusted some caster out of it, slowed the rear rebound- to keep it from pushing my weight to the front-, and sped up the front shock rebound. I can ride it pretty well now, but I might get some factory +2+1 A ARMS available to the Xteam members.

Another thing for what your doing, I think you should try the pipe only. The intake won't do too much for you. It is either the pipe or all the mods in my opinion. My bike made 48, you will probably make close to 44 with just a pipe, airbox lid off and cut the pink wire.
I hope I helped.

Merrill

[TNT]

I thought he answered you well! Thats some good numbers, 48/32, we got that out of YFZr, to a tee! Same mods but FCI and PC5 on it. Ours will be on the dyno Tuesday/Wed.

That +2+1 will bring your CG fwd since +1 takes the arm weight forward right, or back? +1 swing will bring it back. You want to bring it back since you are nose heavy. My son says the nose is light, but he's 170.

Also seed you get the PC5 that will add some hp, better tuning and a 02...add the FCI/K$N Im working on you'll see a diff, to that Rossier intake to wake it up.

[ml450r]

The front steers heavy, it will lift the front end at will. A longer swingarm will make the front heaveir. The +1 forward arms will make the front end not steer so heavy, I don't know if actually lightens the front end. I don't care about the theory, I just know how 250rs felt with and without the +1 forward arms. I think the +1 forward arms will do wonders for this bike.

I believe that the holz arms Lawson is running are +1 forward.

The dyno run was with the pink wire cut. I drove all the way to little sahara to have Mike tune the new motor for me, the pc3 quit working when I got there, would not even start. I unhooked and ran it with the pink wire cut. It was lean on top. He said you could probably see a couple more hp with proper tuning.

I also Dyno'd my honda since I was there, it was also lean, not as bad, but I have been wanting to get the jetting right on it forever now. It did 54hp/38tq.

[ml450r]

dyno, its blurry

[TNT]

Ok MC your confusing the heck out of me and I don't care what the norm is or what the pro's are doing, I'm telling you if you move more weight fwd it will cause the CG to move fwd, that's not theory that is FACT! A +1 swing makes weight move to the rear.....The foot pegs and your body weight and this quads CG is different than no other. I just don't want to see you waste a bunch of money and not the results you did on other quads.

What do you mean your steering is "heavy"? Did you get a good stab like a precision?

Speak to your daddy tell me whats going on man? LMAO! :confused: :rolleyes: :D

Ill be back to think about this I'm heading out on the town dude! :blah: :macho

[ml450r]

3rd gear pull on both bikes, notice the mph difference.

[TNT]

Ml you need to tell me whats going on w/your steering I sit around some of the best Engineers and quad mechanics in the World on our team, be specific as best you can. Don't care what the pros are doing and what everyone else is doing try and tell me what your problems are with this quad and will solve them...

I like it the challange then you can buy me some good cigars at HLR. :D

[ml450r]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TNT1
[B]Ok MC your confusing the heck out of me and I don't care what the norm is or what the pro's are doing, I'm telling you if you move more weight fwd it will cause the CG to move fwd, that's not theory that is FACT! A +1 swing makes weight move to the rear.....The foot pegs and your body weight and this quads CG is different than no other. I just don't want to see you waste a bunch of money and not the results you did on other quads.

What do you mean your steering is "heavy"? Did you get a good stab like a precision?

[QUOTE]

The bike has some engine braking and excellent weight transfer, great for starts, i just don't like it for cornering. When you go into a turn the bike has a very heavy front end. It is probably not as noticable with a lighter rider.

Your confusion is CG. CG is just where the mounting point would be if you wanted to pick it up from one spot and have it ballanced. +1 a arms would technically move the cg forward, though it would probably be unmeasureable.
A longer swingarm would move the cg to the rear but make the front end heavier. I may be confusing you, but you can believe I know what I am talking about.


You could place the bike on 4 seperate scales and see what I am talking about. Moving the front tires forward would make more weight on the ground in the rear.

I hope this clears this up.

You must be in aviation. The only time I have ever heard anyone talking about CG is when I was getting my pilots license.

[THEMACHINIST]

hello tnt i would like to know why they don't do titanium Aarms and swing arm?(exept for the price) it's lighter and strong:confused:

[TNT]

Ml...that word 'heavy' can mean alot of things, now that I see what your saying, got a question for you. Why is that when you move the front arms fwd more weight gets transferred to the rear on the scales you mentioned? Will it vary from quad to quad? Why? What determines the amount that gets transferred statically and dynamically?

Also thats a pretty high correction factor on your dyno run.

M- Yeah Ti is great but too expensive. 3-4 times that of aluminum or steel..It's really the Cadillac of metals, super strong and light!

[ml450r]

Originally posted by TNT1


Also thats a pretty high correction factor on your dyno run.



what, it just says std, what does that mean. I don't do much with dynos, I was just wanting to get the power commander tuned. Are you saying the bike doesn't make 48 hp? It doesn't matter to me, I have to ride it either way...lol. My brother has a honda 450r that dyno'd on a mustang dyno at 39 hp. He pulled holeshots (against my 520,too)all the time and won probably 90 percent of the races he raced, it is just a number.

[ml450r]

Originally posted by TNT1
. Why is that when you move the front arms fwd more weight gets transferred to the rear on the scales you mentioned? Will it vary from quad to quad? Why? What determines the amount that gets transferred statically and dynamically?



Not sure what your asking here. +1 forward arms is moving static weight to the rear wheels. Just like on an 18 wheeler when they slide the trailer wheels forward or to the back to transfer weight to the drive axles or to the trailer tires so it will scale properly. Once the static weight has been moved the dynamic weight would also be changed. I am sure the actual weight be shifted would vary between quads. I assume you are wanting me to tell you the CG is the factor that varies the amount transferred, which it is.

I am not sure if you are asking me or putting your point in question form.

You are not changing the cg enough to make a noticeable difference in the air, but coming in to corners the bike will try to push alittle more and not carve through corners so precise. hopefully fixing the problem I was trying to fix with the obnoxious positive caster.;)

[TNT]

Im learning something here..I never new or even considered +1 arms, I didn't even know they existed, nor did I know 18 wheelers do that.

Yes I wanted you to see that what you are measuring or feeling is the moment arm relative to the CG. Yes the Cg change due to weight is negligible agree.

Im a little baffled tho since if you think of a see saw, if you balance it out like a quad on four scales, then move the two front ones an inch further fwd from the pivot point(or cg) statically more weight goes forward, dynamically as you ride it's easier to put weigh behind you because of the increased lever arm. Am I not thinking correctly?

Getting the DS together today to go to the shop tomorrow. CV boot looks good, ECU protector and other race parts so far so good...Ill get some photos up later.

[spanky101]

I must say, I love coming to this forum due to the actual knowledge and work TNT and ML are doing with the bike, along with others. You guys should have got ktm's so you could put the time and effort into that bike! :blah: Thank you guys! Your making the ds more and more appealing!

[ml450r]

Originally posted by TNT1


, if you balance it out like a quad on four scales, then move the two front ones an inch further fwd from the pivot point(or cg) statically more weight goes forward,


If you move the front tires forward more weight will be read on the scales underneath the rear tires.

Picture a 8" extended swingarm(to exaggerate the effect), scaled next to a stock swingarm, the front scales would read a higher percent of the weight on the extended swingarm bike than stock.

[nate450x]

Not to butt into you and TNT's discussion but what ML is saying is right. It is just like what they do in dirt track racing. I have a good friend and we do this stuff on his Late Model all the time and we also play around with spring pressures. He has a set of scales that are placed under each individual wheel and as you move the control arms forward or back you can see the difference it makes all the way around the car. Just like spring pressure, put more pressure (stiffer spring) on the front it will add more weight (shift the weight) to the rear on the tires themselves. Hope this helps clear things up a little more or it might have made it worse lol!!!

[TNT]

Let me see if I can explain this so we can all understand better and correct me if I am wrong……

Statically(no rider weight) you should be able to move the arms forward and balance the quad out on four scales leveling with the spring tensions on the shocks. The force of gravity is the same at all four wheels no matter where they are.

Now lets add rider weight to the foot pegs dynamically. What happens now by moving the arms forward we moved the pegs back shifting weight to the rear. May be desirable to some riders not others depending on weight and riding style.

In TT we use a sway bar to transfer weight to the front tires in different amounts, by moving the fwd arms up or down we transfer weight usually to the right fwd tire that lifts in turns.

So the effects of moving the arms fwd +1 will vary from quad to quad and depend on where the pegs are(applied weight). The Cg fwd due to mass will have little effect.

[dustin_j]

Let me see if I can help TNT.

Don't think of a teeter totter. Think of two guys facing each other some distance x apart, holding a long board. Now place a weight in the center of the board (distance x/2). The resulting force that each guy feels is the same. Now extend one side of the board a distance delta. The center of gravity is x/2 away from one guy, but it is now x/2 plus + delta away from the other. Thus, the guy with the longer lever arm will not feel as much force as the other guy.

Does this help?

[TNT]

Yes sir, now your talking my lingo! Thanks! :D

[dustin_j]

No problem, I figured some x's and delta's would help a little ;)

I do have a question for ml450r, and it might help you even more, TNT1. Most +1 forward arms I've seen only moved the upper ball joint location forward, thus affecting castor. I assume the after market can am arms are the same, correct?

Thanks,
Dustin

[ml450r]

+1 forward arms move the spindle forward an inch, not just the top.

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by ml450r
+1 forward arms move the spindle forward an inch, not just the top.

That's what I originally thought, but then I read other threads and got confused. Thank you for the clarification.

Dustin