going to a 440

[tim colston]

Hello all, I apologize for asking this question but I am on my blackberry and it isn't easy to search the forums. I am going from a stock bore 400 to a 440. Could someone on here tell me what I will need parts wise. I all ready have someone lined up to bore it but i need to know what kind of piston, size compression etc, oversized oil tank, if needed, HD studs on and on. Please lay it out I am new to the boring thing and wanted to do this and have it the most reliable I can get. I am currently using amsoil 0w 40 full syn oil. will that change? I do have a LRD full system on my bike. So please don't tell me to search i cannot do that easily. Thanks in advance fellas.

T.

[Sanddraging28]

for a 440 you will need to have a new sleeve installed. i would stay under 11 to 1 compression if you want to run pump gas. get a stage 2 cam and the HD head studs are a must. look into getting a 450r carb. the oil tank is up to you, i dont use them.
also get a new cam chain, just to be safe

[tim colston]

Originally posted by Sanddraging28
for a 440 you will need to have a new sleeve installed. i would stay under 11 to 1 compression if you want to run pump gas. get a stage 2 cam and the HD head studs are a must. look into getting a 450r carb. the oil tank is up to you, i dont use them.
also get a new cam chain, just to be safe

As far as the sleeve goes. Can i just buy a new one or is there a special "440" sleeve that I buy. Thanks sand.

[Sanddraging28]

when you buy a new sleeve just make sure it is for a 440 not a stock sleeve. the biggest you can go with a stock sleeve is 426

[tim colston]

should I consider going to a 426 instead. I don't ride much any more around 20 hrs a year. i just wanted the fastest I could get for the little time i do get to ride.

[Sanddraging28]

i would go with a 416 or a 426. when built right they are faster than a 440.

[tim colston]

I will go with the 426 then. I would like to amend my first post to a 426 vs a 440

Thanks again Sand and others who will help me

[Sanddraging28]

to make the best power out of a 426, get a 12 to 1 piston. that will require 93 octane with octane booster. match that with a stage 2 cam and a 450r carb and that thing will fly

[tim colston]

Thanks Erik,

Could you give me a run down on all the parts that i would need to buy to get this show on the road. I have read some of you other posts and you know what your talking about. If you have time my friend. Even what manufacture in your eyes is better. Sorry to lean on you but i don't know anything about this stuff. Tanks again Erik. your a hella guy.

[Honda#4]

In my opinion riding that much I wouldnt go with a 426, a 416 stroked if you wanna go that route, ported head,450 carb,stg 2 cam will give you a smile for along time, hell im still happy with my 416 that has a ported head and a stg 2 cam.

Either way you'll be happy with a 416 or 426.

[Sanddraging28]

my preference for building a non race 426 is as follows.

JE Piston part #177240
11 to 1 compression

Hotcams Stage 2 Cam part # 1043-2

Cometric Gasket Set part #C7826

GT Thunder Head stud kit

CRF450R Cam Chain
Part#14401-MEB-671

400ex Cam Chain Tensioner
Part #14520-KCY-671

Right side cover gasket
part # 11394-KCY-671

also look for a 04-05 450r carb w/ throttle cable and fuel line

as for what honda#4 said.
a stroker would be a waste of time and money. that requires splitting the cases and then the expense of a high dollar stroker crank. i am not against stroker motors, i own one and have built MANY!! but for somebody that only rides 20 hours a year a well built 426 is the way to go

[dariusld]

For some reason, I don't like Sanddraging28, maybe its the advice he gives. There are alot of members on here like him.Sanddraging28 can you explain why going from a stock bore to a 426 is throwing money away. And why a 426 is going to run hotter than a 416. Read through some of his threads and he contradicks himself many times. I have corrected him, but he still thinks he is right.

[tim colston]

Originally posted by dariusld
For some reason, I don't like Sanddraging28, maybe its the advice he gives. There are alot of members on here like him.Sanddraging28 can you explain why going from a stock bore to a 426 is throwing money away. And why a 426 is going to run hotter than a 416. Read through some of his threads and he contradicks himself many times. I have corrected him, but he still thinks he is right.

I see know where in this post where he said going to a 426 is a waste of money or about it running hotter. he actually changed my mind of my original post about going to a 440. While i apprciate you opinion how would you build a 426 non stroker? He was very helpful to me and seemed very knowledgeable, i will entertain other opinions but he has done nothing but help me in my post and it is hard to see where your accusations are coming from because they weren't even mentioned in this discussion. Not bashing just not understanding the hateing, and if it's a personal beef take it somewhere else, but if you have a diffrent way to built a 426 from a good stock 2000 engine then i am all ears. Seriously.

[Sanddraging28]

so you don't like me......how will i sleep at night?????
you don't like my advice because you don't agree with it....how childish.
if you go back to my last post and the time to read it,(don't forget to sound out the big words) i never said that a 426 is a waste of money, and a 426 doesnt run hotter if it is jetted corectlly.
Do you have a 426????? i do, how the hell do you know how hot a 426 runs...let me guess, your brothers friend, cousins girlfriends dads brother told you so.....
you have never corrected me on anything, you dont have the knowledge to correct me. i do this EVERYDAY, i am not some guy that put one piston and cam in and call my self a pro........
i have never contradicted myself, i give the advice i feel is appropriate.

it may be time to find a new hobby, because four wheelers and being a dick dont go together

have a pleasant day!!! :rolleyes:


i want to apologize to everybody else on this post.....i can only take so much before i feel the need to speak my mind

[dariusld]

O.K I'll reword it so there is no sarcasm. Instead of going straight to a 426, you might have the option to save some of those bores for later, otherwise you have to buy a new cylinder. Why not go 416 and still have a bore left. The stock sleeve gets thinner with a 426. With a thinner sleeve you have a chance of cracking it and they run hotter, nothing to do with jetting.

[tim colston]

Originally posted by dariusld
O.K I'll reword it so there is no sarcasm. Instead of going straight to a 426, you might have the option to save some of those bores for later, otherwise you have to buy a new cylinder. Why not go 416 and still have a bore left. The stock sleeve gets thinner with a 426. With a thinner sleeve you have a chance of cracking it and they run hotter, nothing to do with jetting.

See that's the thing I don't have much time anymore to ride and I wanted to get the most out of what I have right now. If it blows in a couple of years so be it. I was originally going to go to a 440 but wasn't aware of having to get it resleeved. I don't want a small change i want something i notice. however i do see where your coming from but i will just go to a 440 if that happens, by then my baby that's on the way will be here possibly allowing me to buy a 450 but i am trying to get the most out of what i have with some reliabilty still intact. And no i am not having the baby my wife is, i just re read my statement and it made me sound like a split tail. lol.

[dariusld]

Originally posted by tim colston
I don't want a small change i want something i notice

This is argueable, but your not going to notice the difference between a 416 and a 426 in my opinion.

[Sanddraging28]

i have NEVER had a 426 crack a sleeve....and i have built many.

in this case he wanted to go straight to 440 why not just bore to a 426 and that's not enough then go to a 440.

and jetting has everything to do with it, a bike that is not jetted correctly will run hotter. a stock sleeve gets thinner every time you bore it.

this is the second time you have tried to make my advice seem wrong...what qualifications to you have to do so???????

everybody has the right to there own opinion. but when you start to personally bash me, i tend to get a little pissed off. if you don't agree with me, more power to you. but dont tell me i am wrong unless you have the knowledge and experience to do so.

as for not feeling the difference between a 416 and a 426.....thats bull.
come put your 416 against my 426....i dare you.

[dariusld]

:) :) :) :) :) :) Every time you open your mouth..... I can't teach you everything.

[tim colston]

Originally posted by dariusld
This is argueable, but your not going to notice the difference between a 416 and a 426 in my opinion.

Then why do they make the option 10cc's of displacement is more how wouldn't i notice the difference? I am not arguing or doubting but you still haven't offered you way of building one or the other, I don't think your an idiot but sand has given proof and layed out what i need to do so. I am not opposed to listening to any opinion but i am looking for answers and help not a fight. Sand has been helpful thoughout this thread and all you have done is disagree with him without helping me. What is your underlying reason for commenting if you don't help. Obviously you don't like him I read the thread that your talking about and you commented 1 time, disagreed, and then left it at that. Even the other guy in the thread admitted to not fully understanding sands reasoning until he layed it out for him. Look all i want is a little more out of my machine and the best way of doing it.

[Sanddraging28]

i really doubt there is anything that you can teach me......

feel free to try. i am always up for a challenge.

not sure what you have against me, not sure why you seem to have a personal vendetta towards me. seems childish.

if you have a different opinion on advice i give, feel free to share. but personal attacks on me will NOT be tolerated from this point on.

this is your one and only warning

[Eviltanker]

Originally posted by Sanddraging28
my preference for building a 426 is as follows.

JE Piston part #177240
11 to 1 compression

Hotcams Stage 2 Cam part # 1043-2

Cometric Gasket Set part #C7826

GT Thunder Head stud kit

CRF450R Cam Chain
Part#14401-MEB-671

400ex Cam Chain Tensioner
Part #14520-KCY-671

Right side cover gasket
part # 11394-KCY-671

also look for a 04-05 450r carb w/ throttle cable and fuel line

as for what honda#4 said.
a stroker would be a waste of time and money. that requires splitting the cases and then the expense of a high dollar stroker crank. i am not against stroker motors, i own one and have built MANY!! but for somebody that only rides 20 hours a year a well built 426 is the way to go

I will deffinetly agree with this setup.

[iownatoyota]

Originally posted by dariusld
O.K I'll reword it so there is no sarcasm. Instead of going straight to a 426, you might have the option to save some of those bores for later, otherwise you have to buy a new cylinder. Why not go 416 and still have a bore left. The stock sleeve gets thinner with a 426. With a thinner sleeve you have a chance of cracking it and they run hotter, nothing to do with jetting.


actually jettingdoes have something to do with it because if you jet yourself too lean it causes the engine to run hotter and misses more those having a greater chance at causing damage to the cylinder....

just throwing in my two cents of knowledge.

[dariusld]

Originally posted by iownatoyota
actually jettingdoes have something to do with it because if you jet yourself too lean it causes the engine to run hotter and misses more those having a greater chance at causing damage to the cylinder....

just throwing in my two cents of knowledge.

If your going to respond, at least read the thread.
Reading comprehension helps alot also.

"With a thinner sleeve you have a chance of cracking it and they run hotter, nothing to do with jetting." A thinner sleeve and running hotter, were not talking about jetting. Keep it in context.

[Sanddraging28]

does the LD in your name stand for learning Disabled??????? you get cant stop bashing on people can you?? what a dick!!! dont you have somewhere else to be besides on here???? we could only get so lucky!!

[iownatoyota]

Originally posted by dariusld
If your going to respond, at least read the thread.
Reading comprehension helps alot also.

"With a thinner sleeve you have a chance of cracking it and they run hotter, nothing to do with jetting." A thinner sleeve and running hotter, were not talking about jetting. Keep it in context.

without jetting the bike wont run... he asked for a list of **** hes going to need. so i believe jetting IS SOMETHING YOU NEED for a bike to run. thanks.

Brad

[tim colston]

Originally posted by dariusld
If your going to respond, at least read the thread.
Reading comprehension helps alot also.

"With a thinner sleeve you have a chance of cracking it and they run hotter, nothing to do with jetting." A thinner sleeve and running hotter, were talking about jetting.

alright dude. I was trying to be nice and give you a chance to backup you statements, you still haven't done shat but disagree with others. Stay the **** out of my threads you have nothing to say but bullshat, you haven't provided me with any help and have knocked others who have tried. if you wanna play internetbadass then do it somewhere else jerkoff. oh and by the way your dead wrong with everything you have said, my reasoning is because you haven't said a thing.

[dariusld]

Originally posted by Sanddraging28
does the LD in your name stand for learning Disabled??????? you get cant stop bashing on people can you?? what a dick!!! dont you have somewhere else to be besides on here???? we could only get so lucky!!

Your so funny:D

[dariusld]

Originally posted by tim colston
alright dude. I was trying to be nice and give you a chance to backup you statements, you still haven't done shat but disagree with others. Stay the **** out of my threads you have nothing to say but bullshat, you haven't provided me with any help and have knocked others who have tried. if you wanna play internetbadass then do it somewhere else jerkoff. oh and by the way your dead wrong with everything you have said, my reasoning is because you haven't said a thing.

I'm sorry for ruining your thread.

[scuzz]

Alright. Sounds like the time for a group hug.

[Sanddraging28]

thats better than a circle jerk:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :blah:

[Dathon Lawler]

i'm with tim. i can sift out the motor heads, the bull****ters and the "help me i'm totally clueless" i've read quite a bit of sandragging's threads. i consider myself to be pretty high up in the knowledge bank of 400's, but i still have open eyes and ears. keep on wheelin sanddraggin.

[Sanddraging28]

i feel i need to comment on today's events.
first off i want to apologize to Tim. i am sorry that you had to get involved in this childish bull****. I try to give the best advice that i am able to. i try never to exceed my knowledge range. i have been in the four wheeler and dirt bike motor building business for about 10 years. i have spent time at a couple well known shops, and have learned from some of the most knowledgeable engine builders ever. while i feel that i have the knowledge and experience to give advice, i have never and will never attempt to think i know everything there is to know about any particular subject. while i am no longer at a big well known shop, i decided to advance my career as a full time firefighter. i still try my best to stay current on whats new in the engine building world. i know there is always going to be someone out there can teach me something new or show me a different way to do something.
with my advice to other people i am just trying to save them some time, money and frustration. i feel that i do a pretty good job at that.
to those people that don't see eye to eye with my advice, that is great. there is nothing i like better than a good debate, hell; even a heated debate. its the difference of opinions that has brought the world of four wheeling to where it is now. without it we all would be riding the same exact four wheeler or dirt bike and what fun would that be.
so the way i see it is there is no reason that we all cant be here for the same reason. to share advice, poke fun, and just bull**** in general
thanks for taking the time to read this

[tim colston]

I just appriciate all the time and effort you put in to helping me. I gave that dude several chances to offer up his imput and in the end i think, he just had a beef with you. You don't need to apologize to me at all, you HELPED me. I just feel bad that a simple stupid thread had to result in this. Erik as i said in my PM, I appreciate the time you took out of your day to help me, and I am going to do the exact thing you purposed. Thanks again Erik and your one of the reasons atvriders is the best site for information and or to argue with someone. lol

Thanks again to all who offered their opinion also.

[hypersnyper6947]

Originally posted by Sanddraging28
my preference for building a non race 426 is as follows.

JE Piston part #177240
11 to 1 compression

Hotcams Stage 2 Cam part # 1043-2

Cometric Gasket Set part #C7826

GT Thunder Head stud kit

CRF450R Cam Chain
Part#14401-MEB-671

400ex Cam Chain Tensioner
Part #14520-KCY-671

Right side cover gasket
part # 11394-KCY-671

also look for a 04-05 450r carb w/ throttle cable and fuel line

as for what honda#4 said.
a stroker would be a waste of time and money. that requires splitting the cases and then the expense of a high dollar stroker crank. i am not against stroker motors, i own one and have built MANY!! but for somebody that only rides 20 hours a year a well built 426 is the way to go

I agree with this as well, i had a 440 before now i have the 416 you see in my signature, the 416 is definitely faster and almost just as torquey. My 440 bombed and destroyed my whole motor, my 416 is much more reliable and puts 37hp to the wheels which is pretty good, thats more than a stock 450 puts to the wheels, or so i have read. Im not knocking the 426, im just trying to say you can get a lot done with a 416. I am knocking the 440 though, it cost me ALOT of money.

[tim colston]

Originally posted by hypersnyper6947
I agree with this as well, i had a 440 before now i have the 416 you see in my signature, the 416 is definitely faster and almost just as torquey. My 440 bombed and destroyed my whole motor, my 416 is much more reliable and puts 37hp to the wheels which is pretty good, thats more than a stock 450 puts to the wheels, or so i have read. Im not knocking the 426, im just trying to say you can get a lot done with a 416. I am knocking the 440 though, it cost me ALOT of money.

Would you say there is a noticeable difference between the 416 and the 426? Just curious.

Originally posted by tim colston
Would you say there is a noticeable difference between the 416 and the 426? Just curious.

Not unless you run a 12 to 1 or higher on the 426, as sanddraging said.... then you need race fuel

[hypersnyper6947]

Originally posted by tim colston
Would you say there is a noticeable difference between the 416 and the 426? Just curious.

I dont have a 426 and never have ridden one so i cant give you a honest answer, but i know that my 416 is fast and i doubt just 10ccs will make a reg 426 compete with my 416. If i were you i would do the 416 go with somewhere around 11:1 CR from a reputable piston brand, go for a cam of some sort, does not have to be hotcam which is a brand, i here good things about web cams and i know there is other cam makers out there, then get the port work done and a 450r carb. While its apart get some cometic gaskets hd studs and crf cam chain. The only reason i say stay away from the 440 is because they are unreliable and do produce a decent amount of heat.

[tim colston]

Thanks all, for the advice.

[Sanddraging28]

to see a noticeable difference you need to go 12 to 1 compression or better on a 426. my 426 will beat my 416 any day of the week.

[hypersnyper6947]

sanddraging28 lets see some pics of your bikes

[Sanddraging28]

working on it... getting some staged pics taken. probably this weekend. i'll post them

[Jessem24]

yea man. id love to see your 400's. they sound like there very beastly

[tim colston]

YEAH I would like to see them as well.

416